Ryanair/Channel 4 dispatches Programme [Archive] - Page 2

Arkroyal

15th Feb 2006, 09:52

BFF

I work for one of the above, and carry a copy of the memo which prohibits me from giving anything away, no matter what.

I watched the programme, and a lot of it was strangely familiar. The makers wasted a lot of time and effort to produce the weakest 'expose' I have ever seen. To let the RYR comments through (especially the 18 hour week joke) without comment lost them a chance to expose MOL as the nasty, economical with the truth runt he is.

To all the romantics out there; get real folks. The imperious airline captain sweeping aboard followed dutifuly by his crew is a dinosoar of the past. Bereft of life, he is extinct.

We are now no better than white van men of the air, whose decisions (outside of immediate safety) are already made by bean counters; to be followed...or disobeyed at your peril.

Our focus is now trying to halt or slow the slide in our Ts and Cs to those of the real white van men.

As for my pax? I simply can't treat them with the respect I was wont to do when flying for a proper airline. Respect works both ways. THe preview for the programme in 'The Times' on Monday by David Chater typifies their outlook:

'.......I have flown to Athens and back for less than the price of a return ticket to Dorset and back by train......... It is said to show film of Ryanair behaving badly - dirty planes, security lapses, exhausted pilots and cynical cabin staff. "What they found," we are warned, "may make you think twice about flying RYR again." What rubbish. It can have unshaven pilots covered in egg stains [He must have flown with me:) ] assisted by foul mouthed cabin staff for all I care - it would still be cheaper, safer and more comfortable than going anywhere by train.'

I feel sorry for those genuine travellers who only find themselves Loco through lack of any alternative, but Chater's veiw is a common one.....until suddenly one day all the holes in the cheese line up and he removes the word 'safer' from his final sentence.

Roll on retirement

RYR-738-JOCKEY

15th Feb 2006, 10:08

VIKING9 wrote: "Nice to see the latest RYR advert for 3 million free seats in today's Daily Mail, and their apology to BA, easyJet etc for those seats. Shame though they are not free unless RYR are paying for the credit card fee, wheelchair fee and airport taxes themselves."

Well, that would be paying the expences in addition to giving away free seats, wouldn't it? I think your criticism is a bit too cynical. The thing here is that the average fare with Ryan is about 28 Euros, and I've heard rumours that this is to be cut to zero within a couple of years. I think you've lost the point if you want to include secondary expences in the equation. After all, no other operator can match this...

VIKING9

15th Feb 2006, 10:14

VIKING9 wrote: think your criticism is a bit too cynical. The thing here is that the average fare with Ryan is about 28 Euros, and I've heard rumours that this is to be cut to zero within a couple of years. I think you've lost the point if you want to include secondary expences in the equation. After all, no other operator can match this...

Cynical or not, if something is advertised as FREE, it should be FREE.....

As for no other operator matching RYR, well, I don't think any of the other locos come anywhere near RYR which IMHO is a good thing !

ShamRoc

15th Feb 2006, 10:22

From this morning's Irish Independent on line:

British officials seek talks with Ryanair after TV expose

08:20 Wednesday February 15th 2006

The British Department of Transport is reportedly seeking talks with Ryanair following's this week's expose on Channel 4's Dispatches programme.
The documentary unveiled a number of security and safety breaches at the Irish airline, with cabin crews failing to check passports and safety equipment and falling asleep on the job.

It also revealed the extent to which staff at the company feel unappreciated and overworked, with one pilot saying he feared being sacked if he refused to fly while he was tired.

Ryanair has rejected all of the allegations made by the programme, despite the fact that they were based on video footage recorded by two undercover reporters who infiltrated the airline for five months.

beernice

15th Feb 2006, 10:55

Woodpecker, ryanair bars are sealed on the ground. Don't know why. Perhaps our friend Leo can help with that one.We are not allowed to open them on the ground. For all of you non pilots out there waffleing on about the authority of the captain get real!. The captain operates the aircraft in accordance with the company proceedures. The book says do not open the bars on the ground so we don't. Other airlines have different procedures and good luck to them. Most companys now do not give their crews much lee-way, there are procedures that must be adhered to for most situations.
You also have to remember that this was a minor tech delay. As I understand it the crew were waiting for some paper work from engeering. That could have come at any momement and the crew had to be ready to depart. And for good measure the airport had offically shut.The airport normally shuts shortly after the depaerture of the evening Ryanair. The tower stayed open to allow the departure. So can you imagine the start up call, "Ryanair xxx ready for start, just waiting for the bars to be stored and all passangers to finish their drinks"

Camel Killer

15th Feb 2006, 10:58

VIKING9 wrote: ".......Shame though they are not free unless RYR are paying for the credit card fee, wheelchair fee and airport taxes themselves."

Well, that would be paying the expences in addition to giving away free seats, wouldn't it? I think your criticism is a bit too cynical. The thing here is that the average fare with Ryan is about 28 Euros, and I've heard rumours that this is to be cut to zero within a couple of years. I think you've lost the point if you want to include secondary expences in the equation. After all, no other operator can match this...

OK, I have a car for sale. Two litre job, 2005 vintage, alloys, a/c, c/c, etc etc. Yours for €99. Legally imposed taxes and environmental charges extra. First to see will buy. No tyre kickers, please. Interested?

Charges include catalytic convertor @€20,000 and seat belts @€10,000

Faire d'income

15th Feb 2006, 13:32

Quote "*If the captain knew a slide was u/s and subsequently departed without writing it up and following the relevent procedures he should be fired and criminally charged."
I think you forgot the summary execution bit.
On the "evidence" presented in this very poor documentary, I think talk like this is utter pish. Chill pills recommended all round.

The evidence as I saw it was inconclusive. One CC thought the captain possibly knew the other didn't know and didn't seem to care ( FR CC did not come out of this as remotely motivated ). If they were any use at all they would both have checked whether he did or not. Speculation about waiting 5 minutes for a temp change to see where the needle would be is irrelevent for those CC's.

Chill pills indeed. You might not like the fact your company is being dragged through the dirt but at least take your head out of the sand and acknowledge why. The attitude of a lot of staff there seems to bear a remarkable resemblance to a certain wooly poster here.

Flap 5

15th Feb 2006, 13:57

The programme was a gross embarassment to Ryanair, the IAA and the CAA. Channel 4 may well have made a better programme. But they didn't and we only have what they have broadcast. The IAA and CAA are concerned with the airlines under their authority, not Channel 4.

The fact that Ryanair and their supporters on this thread say the programme was 'inconclusive' and 'amateurish' is irrelevant. The programme has placed some possibly serious breaches of security, training and procedures in the public domain. Therefore ShamRoc's post was inevitable as the IAA and CAA will have to investigate Ryanair's procedures or they will also be culpable in the public's view.

RogerIrrelevant69

15th Feb 2006, 14:30

Faire d'income

I neither own shares in Ryanair nor do I work for Ryanair, so it is not my company.

This week I watched what was advertised as an expose of some shocking goings on in Ryanair. It was nothing of the sort. In 5 months of filming these investigators found very little worth broadcasting - in fact in my view and many others close to nothing.

From the documentary one could only conclude the CC did not report the now infamous slide problem to the flight crew. I cannot speculate what happened off camera. For all we know maybe Elvis or God were on board that day but it wasn't on camera.

Faire d'income

15th Feb 2006, 14:39

I neither own shares in Ryanair nor do I work for Ryanair, so it is not my company.

Yet you are consistantly in the See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil camp.

IAA maybe? :p

For all we know maybe Elvis or God were on board that day but it wasn't on camera.

You can look for Elvis or O'Leary but I'll stick to what was shown and discussed.
There is the possibility that C4 made the whole thing up, if that were found to be true I would be advocating a big law suit. All I know is we were shown two cabin crew discussing a slide with a needle indicating it was unservicable.

RogerIrrelevant69

15th Feb 2006, 14:52

"All I know is we were shown two cabin crew discussing a slide with a needle indicating it was unservicable."

Agreed, that is all we were shown so lets "stick to what was shown".

Anyway I've had enough of this thread, it's descended into the usual pit plus we seem to have a number of people arguing about drinks availability..... a large one for me please.

A2QFI

15th Feb 2006, 14:56

Is it actually possible to do a proper passport check on 180 boarding passengers in a 25 minute turnround, of which about 10 minutes is allowed for boarding and associated checks?

Leo Hairy-Camel

15th Feb 2006, 15:02

Yet you are consistently(SIC) in the See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil camp.

IAA maybe?
No he's not, Fairdinkum, he's giving you his impressions on having actually watched that pathetic insult to the very notion of investigative journalism on Monday night. Thinly conceived, slovenly editing and a singular failure in what it set out to achieve, but thats just my opinion. Isn't it funny, though, that anyone who commits the transgression of disagreeing with you that Ryanair is rotten to the core, must somehow be either Ryanair management, or working for the regulator. Open your mind, Fairdinkum. Embrace the notion that you might actually be wrong.

This isn't the first time that Karen Edwards at Steve Boulton productions has distinguished herself with third rate, ill-conceived doggerel though. Anyone remember "Young, Nazi and proud", or the laughable exposé into NHS nurses? More of the same, really. Not sure they fully appreciate who they've taken on this time though. Hope they've got deep pockets. They'll shortly need 'em.

dartagnan

15th Feb 2006, 15:17

sorry, i did not read all posts here,

but where can i download or watch online this reportage???

any link???

Faire d'income

15th Feb 2006, 15:21

Any chance of a discussion on the issues instead of more bile directed at anyone who doesn't buy into the nonsense?
Isn't it funny, though, that anyone who commits the transgression of disagreeing with you that Ryanair is rotten to the core, must somehow be either Ryanair management, or working for the regulator.

Not rotten, just seriously mistaken. You keep throwing the dice Leo and it keeps coming up with your number. I would like to see and your ilk sorted before your luck runs out.

cwatters

15th Feb 2006, 15:36

Is it actually possible to do a proper passport check on 180 boarding passengers in a 25 minute turnround, of which about 10 minutes is allowed for boarding and associated checks?

10x60 = 600 seconds. Two people so call it 1200 crew seconds.

1200/180 = 6.7 seconds per passport.

Faire d'income

15th Feb 2006, 15:45

Isn't it funny, though, that anyone who commits the transgression of disagreeing with you that Ryanair is rotten to the core, must somehow be either Ryanair management, or working for the regulator.

This isn't the first time that Karen Edwards at Steve Boulton productions has distinguished herself with third rate, ill-conceived doggerel though.

Isn't it funny, though , that anyone who commits the transgression of disagreeing with you must somehow be "third rate", "stillborn, deaf, dumb and blind idiot","IALPA and their vertically challenged windbag in chief", "I hold that malevolent mouthpiece in utter contempt","page after page of the terminally aggrieved ninnies who bitch and moan here on Pprune", "IALPA's pudgy little head hobbit ", and of course must endure "The sheer jaw-dropping tedium of your meaningless mantra".

G-KEST

15th Feb 2006, 17:45

Writing as an OAP long retired professional pilot I can say that all my RyanAir flights along with those with EasyJet have been perfectly satisfactory and generally at a price I can afford. The only exception pricewise was a late booking from Luton to Inverness where I had to be there the following day.
Such programmes as the one on Channel 4 just love to expose any perceived failing whether justified or not.
Thank the Lord for low cost carriers and the boost in employment they have brought to the airline industry.
Cheers,
Trapper 69
:ok:

Yarpy

15th Feb 2006, 17:46

Leo Hairy-Camel; perhaps we should call you Michael O'Leary as this is the anagram of your Pprune ID. (Many thanks to Mrs Yarpy for pointing that one out).

You wrote:

The Dublin captain in question couldn't be bothered, and sought to justify his recalcitrance after the fact by falsely claiming fatigue. Its as simple, and as scurrilous, as that.

There is a dichotomy in your position as an employer of airline pilots. Is it reasonable to assume that, when you roster a pilot to fly you are happy that he or she will discharge his or her duties responsibly? I.e. you would be confident that, with a fire in the cockpit, any Captain would act sensibly and save the aircraft?

Why then, would you seek to question a self assessment of fatigue by such a responsible and highly capable employee?

Explain please.

williewalsh

15th Feb 2006, 18:09

6.7 seconds a passport. i know an albanian forger who can make you a new one in that time. myabe the turnanround could be shortened.:}

Brookmans Park

15th Feb 2006, 18:31

I am very concerned by the fact that I had no problem at all in identifying most of the crew members whose faces were blanked out either by their general outline and/or voice, I have no doubt that the management can do so as well
As yet I have not found out whether the crew members concerned were aware thet C4 were USING them?

World of Tweed

15th Feb 2006, 18:44

Just a question to anyone in FR about whether there have been any 'consequences' for the Cpt and FO of that delayed flight for so vividly describing their take on Ryanair's corporate policy?

I agree that the whole conversation was, most likely, taken way out of context for the film and that clearly it was more or less all banter.

However like many others I still think that some of their comments(all in the programme not just the flightdeck), even if they are flipent, do perhaps demonstrate a fear of management at the least and at worst illustrates an incredibly agressive corporate operating environment for the crews.....one that by its nature might make those Cheesey holes just that little bit bigger?

A question perhaps of Corporate culture and its (thus far potential) consequences....?

Judge Whyte

15th Feb 2006, 18:47

The security issues I raised in a previous post have not been debated.
I believe that the security chiefs in Stansted and the Irish Government should have issues.
Just hope what we saw is isolated and not a company wide culture.
The reportage was poor.

172driver

15th Feb 2006, 19:43

First - I have not seen the C4 docu.

What strikes me here, however, is that this thread is veering off course. Frankly, a missed passport check doesn't really get me excited. I am a frequent traveller on FR, not because of fares, but because they fly to the out-of-the-way places I often have to go to in my work. In 100+ FR flights, not once were the passports not checked. Granted, boarding can be somewhat, shall we say, chaotic (southern Italy :rolleyes: ), but I've ALWAYS had a pp check.

The trolley dollies are, well, IMHO not up to scratch, as I have posted on another thread a while ago - again, perhaps not great, but not the end of the world.

What REALLY is troubling here is the elephant in the room - FATIGUE UP THE POINTY END. THIS is the issue and the whole culture of 'squeeze 'em for all they're worth', both pax and crew.

Sumatra

15th Feb 2006, 20:05

In the build up to this programme and now a few days into the aftermath I really have to say my overwhelming feeling is that it has been a brilliant piece of crisis management and an example of superb PR by Ryanair.

"May the dust of your carriage blind the eyes of your foe!"

Sunfish

15th Feb 2006, 20:08

172, you are correct, however if you even get close to the issues involved, Danny cops another legal letter from Ryanair.

As for the non reporting of the slide bottle pressure to the Captain, there are a number of possible explanations, slovenly cabin crew, bad training, time pressure and so on.

However there is a possible behavioural reason - What if you tell the captain and the flight is delayed while the problem is fixed, and you subsequently get a bollocking from management for being a "smartarse"?

I've seen it done.

Faire d'income

15th Feb 2006, 20:40

What if you tell the captain and the flight is delayed while the problem is fixed, and you subsequently get a bollocking from management for being a "smartarse"?

Get one of those Dispatches undercover cameras and put the manager in jail. :)

Bad Robot

15th Feb 2006, 21:49

There were remarkable simularities on this programe to the Airline that I fly for. For example, our cabin crew are told only to check 15% of the life jackets per turnaround. If you only do 4 sectors then only 60% have been checked. I have never heard on a hand over to an on comming late shift where the previous crew had actually got to, ie which Seat Row; as some may have not actually completed the 15% per sector for a multitude of reasons.

However, on the flights that I have operated I rarely see any Life Jacket holders checked unless there is a whiff of the DfT or CAA, pending a ramp check or spot check of the aircraft.

Bottom line? 25 minute turnarounds are not acceptable. Period!

sausagefingers

15th Feb 2006, 21:54

I have just started to work for ryanair as a F/O, and worked for two other airlines. I am very pleased to say that ryanair has such a high standard, and their training is something else, and if these cabin crew and F/O's don't want to work all these hours don't join the bloody airline in the first place.
It's the same old story, let’s try and knock down the most successful airline in Europe).

worldwidewolly

15th Feb 2006, 22:02

Lets call a spade a shovel.

I think the dispatches programme was very timid and very poorly researched.
These 2 lassies didn't seem to be briefed on their task or understand their subject.

I have 1 very important point to raise. The cabin crew were seen on 2 different courses being told by their tutor that they could use their manuals to take the exam. Hardly an exam then I believe, but then what would I know.

The RYR response was that we broke no rules and the IAA and CAA have no issues to address. Now between them it lies. Maybe the IAA are too embarressed with their slack rules to make an issue of it. Either way I would expect RYR to do the right thing and adequetly test their crews and not hide behind the legal view point.

But in this world you can do what you want until something happens.
Is it not too much for the passenger on a Ryanair to expect the cabin crew to have displayed a level of competency?
You can keep your complimentary drinks but you have a legal and moral duty to look after my welfare in your aircraft.

Is that too much to ask for?

saltrock

15th Feb 2006, 22:17

it was nice to see a low cost, low paying airline have so much attention. They may be "the best in Europe" but as what? I would like to see more pay for what you get airlines under the security spot light.

saltrock

15th Feb 2006, 22:31

Arkroyal

15th Feb 2006, 23:23

Hairy Windbag Camel, what exactly does your threat:Not sure they fully appreciate who they've taken on this time though. Hope they've got deep pockets. They'll shortly need 'em.Mean?

Thought you'd dismissed this as tosh, so how come it's getting under your skin to that degree?

Profit Max

15th Feb 2006, 23:31

I'm glad that other people accept that 25 minutes is not enough time.
But isn't the average time more than this? AFAIK, the "flight time" is always calculated 15 to 20 minutes longer than it actually take. So if you take off on time you will often touch down 20 minutes before scheduled arrival time. Therefore, the average turnaround time will be quite a bit more than 25 minutes. Or am I missing something?

Profit Max.

saltrock

15th Feb 2006, 23:54

Sorry, I should have been a little clearer. I work on the ground, not in the air. I see crews rushing to complete all that is required in limited time and I see ramp teams attempting to achive safe, efficient turnrounds under pressure of the 25 minute time scale.
My point was that although the channel 4 program proberly gave a worst case picture of a respected airline, it did high light to the unaware and confirm to those that know, the corners that are cut to achive a desired service.

Sunfish

16th Feb 2006, 04:06

Ryanair now has a "customer fight back" page with a total of ten letters from "customers" and former staff telling MOL what a wonderful thing Ryanair is. Bit light on for 30 million pax don't you think?

I was also suprised to learn that Ryanair actually HAS a Customer Service manager, one would have thought you would need to be awfully thick skinned?

RVR800

16th Feb 2006, 07:53

I though the programme was boring and tried to dig the dirt .. though found nothing notable...

Marvin the Robot

16th Feb 2006, 08:00

Out of interest, how many here have seen any of the written exams being set by the various authorities?

Those who have experience of such exams are only too acutely aware of the stupidity, irrelevance and obscurity of a large proportion of the questions. Trick wording is used extensively as a deliberate policy.

In the programme, for example, I deduced that the lecturer was helping the cabin crew candidate with a question which was based upon one country having a Dept. for Transport and the other having a Dept of Transport. There's a prime example of the sort of bull***t.

By all means have closed book exams, but lets see some relevant questions!

Idunno

16th Feb 2006, 08:14

I've a mate who works in FR, he got his type rating in a Lucky Bag.
He thinks FR are brill!:=

BBT

16th Feb 2006, 08:17

I've a mate who works in FR, he got his type rating in a Lucky Bag.
He thinks FR are brill!

I too have a mate who works in FR. He paid for two type ratings in 3.5 years.
He thinks Ryanair are far from brill!

captjns

16th Feb 2006, 08:51

I'm sorry to see everyone get their knickers in a bind over training and "EXAMS" :{ :eek:

Where I come from it's the airline and not the FAA that determines whether or not an exam is open or closed book. After all, on the aircraft, why are all of these manuals at our disposal. Exams are a not block filler when in training. They must be objective and have a difinitive answer without ambiguities that can be cited directly from materials used during the course of training. In the past, I've designed exams which timed for an important reason. Manuals were required for my exams. It's a method to make sure that students were able to navigate our manual system. It was also a good method to ensure our manuals were user friendly. After all in the heat of the battle, in flight, you want to be able to find your way around the Companys' Aircraft Operations Manuals, Emergency Response Manual, Company General Operations Manual... etc.

EI-CFC

16th Feb 2006, 09:54

Ryanair now has a "customer fight back" page with a total of ten letters from "customers" and former staff telling MOL what a wonderful thing Ryanair is. Bit light on for 30 million pax don't you think?

Well a) they aren't going to publish every single piece of correspondance they recieve and b) how can to tell if that is the end of it, and that there will not be more?

I was also suprised to learn that Ryanair actually HAS a Customer Service manager, one would have thought you would need to be awfully thick skinned?

:rolleyes:

beernice

16th Feb 2006, 10:41

On the security issue. BAA security is at fault here. The longest I heard of a guy being on a tempory pass is 18 months. This has nothing to do with Ryanair. In order to get a pass you need a security check. This takes several weeks. It is only valid for a short time. It then goes to BAA and joins the queue. By the time BAA get to it the security check is out of date and the process starts from the beginning again. My own pass came without any such hitches but still took 6 months.

bacardi walla

16th Feb 2006, 10:43

If your company obtains the necessary references (with no gaps) and submits to BAA with the correct forms, the turn round time can be less than 1 month. Mine took 3 weeks to process.

Seperately, although possibly connected, are RYR still in search of a Personnel Officer at STN ??

Paranoid Parrot

16th Feb 2006, 14:49

There were some things in the Channel 4 programme which were not entirely down to Ryanair and show up Channel 4's lack of knowledge with their subject. We know this is often the case with journalists. However sufficient relevant points were thrown up by the programme to warrant an investigation, if nothing else but to remove concerns which the public will now have after the programme. Also to show the public that the authorities concerned (IAA and CAA) are on top of the matter.

The late XV105

16th Feb 2006, 15:33

Working from home in the UK to hold down a job based in Sweden, I have flown Rynair to Skavsta since 1997 more times than I can possibly remember. In fact, without (broadband ADSL and) low cost travel I wouldn't have this luxury. From my library of [email protected] e-mails received over the past year I have averaged about £60 return, plus £30 in car park charges, £15 in Flybussarna coach tickets, and 120 miles of running cost for the car. Bargain.

Of course, unlike my regular long haul business class travel with other airlines I:

> don't enjoy the Ryanair experience in the slightest
> hate the endless adverts and commercial promotions
> grimmace at the appalling grammar of the recorded preflight announcement
> detest being herded like livestock
> wish that food went beyond the junk variety
> wish that food was actually in stock on the last flight of the day
> rue the decision to order new a/c without reclining seats

...but it remains true that for my tuppence ha'ppeny I have:

> never had baggage lost
> been notified in good time via e-mail of the two schedule changes that occurred
> been delayed beyond 30 minutes only twice (max 2 hours) with the vast majority of arrivals on time (probably due to creative scheduling but at least this means I can plan my day)
> never seen staff asleep on the job
> never felt unsafe within my ability to perceive (I am no airline safety expert by any stretch but am observant and perceptive to machine operation and crew behaviour)

So, I do feel that VFM is given, but I don't see the need to screw and screw and screw every last penny. For this reason I rue the demise of DUO who I used to fly with from Birmingham to Goteborg. That really was VFM as it struck a balance between low fares without being the lowest screwed-to-the-penny low fares and gave service and decorum (as an aside in a beautiful aeroplane!) with it. A shame that either the marketing was inept or the business model fundamentally flawed. This leaves easyJet as my short haul carrier of choice; some of the GO approach seems to live on and as well as the plus points of Ryanair applying here too, I actually enjoy most of these frequent flights.

coopervane

16th Feb 2006, 15:33

One of the things the program shows up is what a joke security is at airports.
In this country, apart from the BAA group of airports, each establishment seems to have its own set of rules and regulations.
Another thing you notice is the lack of consistancy with security staff when it comes to applying the said rules.

Isnt it about time we had a common UK airport ID system? And given that to obtain a UK airside pass you need to pass all the "strict" checking process,why do they allow people temporary ID cards with such limited checking?

The whole system needs an overhaul. I am sure there are some aspects of security we can be proud of. Some establishments seem to get the balance just right between applying the rules and allowing the everyday flow of an airport to run smooth. Others can be just bloody minded empire builders!

It would be simpler to be very strict and say you don't work airside without a fully verified permanent ID card. This should be valid at all UK airports but controlled as personnel require access.

The government is responsible for this mess. If one organisation controlled all UK airport security from the start, then by now we would have had a streamlined slick system in operation. It would also make it very simple to check for terrorist activety with a common controlling authority.

I am not having a go at security staff. They do a difficult and sometimes tiresome job within a poor control framework. Maybe better pay, better training and upping the status of a security officer may reap rewards. Trying to do it on a minmum budget only leads to complacency and lack of interest.

Ryanair may be guilty of a few indescressions but perhaps Dispatches should look at something much more lacking. The state of security at UK airfields!!!

Coop & Bear

PS Having fitted numerous bullet proof, electric latch, anti terrorist cockpit doors to aircraft in my varied career, why did that Ryanair Captain let that passenger in the cockpit?? Surely not a wise move at all!!!

Eddie Ginley

16th Feb 2006, 17:16

...if nothing else but to remove concerns which the public will now have after the programme. Also to show the public that the authorities concerned (IAA and CAA) are on top of the matter.[/QUOTE]

I've been following this thread with interest. Got to make a couple of observations:-

1) This programme is already old news, received relatively little media coverage (in fact the pre-puff about the programme being shown seemed to receive more) and has now been consigned to the metephorical chip paper bin.
2) I tried watching said programme but got bored by the lack of real content - definitely a case of trying to spread too little too far - and so switched off... Suspect most casual / non-industry viewers did the same or went and made a cup of tea...
3) Remember the old adage about "no such thing as bad publicity". I reckon MOL and Ryanair are just luvvin' all the attention.

Time to move on and wait and see if the IAA & CAA take any interest.

Regards to all,

Fast Eddie Ginley (not a FR employee / fan / shareholder - but a sometime customer)

brabazon

16th Feb 2006, 19:54

Channel 4 is running a poll on its Dispatches page asking

Are you prepared to put up with poor service in exchange for cheap flights?

Here are current results...

Yes 28%
No 69%
Undecided 3%

Ok not very scientific and you don't know how many have voted but it does give some indication of public feeling.

I still think there may be more fallout from this programme.....

Big Tudor

16th Feb 2006, 20:38

Brabazon

And yet every day thousands of people do just that. Why? Because it is cheap. And because it is the UK the most they will do is mutter and grumble under their breath. If they feel seriously wronged they may even write a strongly worded letter of complaint to The Times. And will they go out and buy another cheap seat next time they want to fly? You can bet your bottom dollar they will.

IMHO this programme should have been a vehicle for exposing the potentially dangerous erosion of employees terms & conditions. It should have rammed home to people exactly what was being cut in order to provide their 'bargain basement' tickets. Instead we got a very superficial 'docu-soap' that did very little to raise serious concerns and even less to open peoples eyes to the difference between value for money and cheap as chips!

Heliport

16th Feb 2006, 22:05

it does give some indication of public feeling

Which?

The number of people who vote 'No' in the survery or the number of people who choose to fly Ryanair every day?

Erwin Schroedinger

17th Feb 2006, 07:41

Big difference between ticking a box in a survey and digging deeper into your wallet.

Words are cheap. Never moreso than nowadays. You could call it "Blair (and Brown) devaluation".

flight_for_life

17th Feb 2006, 10:14

Air travel can never become a glorified "cheap bus service"... you can't just expect to roll up and "jump aboard". That's how Lockerbie happened. Someone has to pay for the security measures. Airlines have done their bit by installing the enhanced flight deck doors - all that does is to make sure that the pilots employed by the airline are the only ones flying the aircraft. The only people/organisation able to stop nasties ever setting foot on the aircraft is terminal security.

Completely in agreement with coopervane, UK airport security can be a farce. Having passed through several in the course of duty, it becomes quite obvious that standards vary enormously. Worst bit is, nobody can blame the officers themselves, they all do their job well and as per their brief.

If you go to any major US airport, the difference is stark. Passenger suitcases visually checked by humans. Shoes off, belts off etc... and that's just standard measures. If you still beep, you're taken aside and almost strip searched. As Crew, you are treated no differently, sometimes even more harshly. The TSA take no prisoners and good on them. Why can't things be like this over here? If they can confiscate pairs of scissors, why not dis-allow expired temporary IDs?

Gnirren

17th Feb 2006, 13:41

Passengers scream for improved airport security but only if:

1. It can't slow me down any further.

2. It mustn't be a hastle for me.

3. It mustn't infringe on my personal integrity.

4. It mustn't increase my expenses in any way.

Consider also that the staff working security are people same as us and they make mistakes. It'd be easy to get 99.99% security, but the check-in would take 5 hours, the walkaround 5 more and a flight london paris would be 2000€. It's all a CHOSEN level of security Vs profit and expense and yes there are people sitting in cubicles computing what a travelers life is worth when time comes to decide on security expenses and operating procedures. Everything is a calculated risk, be it a small one.

RogerIrrelevant69

17th Feb 2006, 14:50

True indeed Gnirren.

Reminds me of that old dum dum non-aviation person question:

"If the black box always survives, why don't they make the passenger compartment like a black box so no-one will ever get killed?"

The answer of course in a word is weight. I wonder what a €50 fare would become if such an a/c was ever built with existing technology. Multiply by somewhere inbetween 10 and 100.

As you say, everything is a calculated risk, be it a small one.

tallsandwich

17th Feb 2006, 15:26

Are you prepared to put up with poor service in exchange for cheap flights?
brabazon - I repeat the point - the real question that should be presented to the traveling public is:
"Are you prepared to put up with allegedly lower safety in exchange for cheap flights?"

All the posts that retrospectively state that "someone has flown with Ryan for however many times and never crashed" are irrelevant to the issue that the program was trying to address, They also don't contribute anything substantive to the important question of how to constructively change what is allegedly bad in this airline.

GGV

17th Feb 2006, 15:53

Looking back over this thread I think there is a reasonably clear distinction between many of the posts (and posters) pre-broadcast and post-broadcast. Lots of distress before the event on Ryanair’s behalf, much of which had a tone entirely consistent with their masterful P.R. strategy (and it was indeed masterful). The pre-transmission crowd was often outraged and upset, to the extent of even making formal complaints about an un-transmitted programme! Then it turns out that the programme was disappointing for most aviation insiders, even if it contained some telling insights for those able and willing to look. Afterwards, the P.R. counter-attack took place “on cue” and any publicity that was generated was directed towards the promotion of “free seats” on Ryanair flights. Whatever else may be said about Ryanair, it must be acknowledged that its crisis management and product promotion is of a markedly high quality.

Memo to MOL: in the real world the facts come to bear in the end. If the underlying foundations are based on myth and painted with colourful coats of paint then they will still collapse in keeping with the degree of objective weakness. A wise CEO might wish to rely less on verbal and P.R. skills than on getting the middle management team and Post Holders functioning in accordance with both JAA requirements and the objective facts. It’s the latter that will get you in the end because they are like gravity and the sea, omni-present and unforgiving. If the underlying foundations are sound, then there is nothing to worry about. It's your choice, because you are in the “hot seat”; but it might be worth stopping to reflect awhile.

MrBeach

17th Feb 2006, 15:59

I have not seen the C4 programme. But Ryanair pilots are among the best i Europe.

We were only 2 out of 7 who passed the Ryanair pilot Assessment the day i did it. And 3 pilots who failed are flying the Boeing737 in other companys. They did not passed. Just not good enogh in manual flying or in technical knowledge.

Ryanair only wants the best pilots. This is also why Ryanairpilots are "best paid shorthaulpilots in Europe".And I think Ryanair safetyrecord speeks for it self.

THIS IS WHY I ALWAYS FLY RYANAIR.

Bear in mind,
Those three B737 pilots not passing ryanair assessment are flying in other companys in Europe.

flight_for_life

17th Feb 2006, 16:05

Nobody ever contemplated that Lockerbie would happen. It did. We developed strict baggage control - AAA and BRS systems in airports that ensure that the person who checks in is the same person that boards the aircraft (assuming the crew bother to check their passport that is...) and that their associated hold luggage doesn't travel without them.

Nobody ever contemplated that 9/11 would happen. It did. We developed everything-proof flight deck doors at huge financial cost to airlines, not to mention the cost to CRM. The knock-on effect to business drowned several BIG airlines and stifled many others.

Nobody ever contemplated that so soon after 9/11, another flight would be interfered with. Yet the Shoe-bomber managed to get as far as attempting to detonate his deadly device whilst airborne!!!

What has to happen next to change things... or shouldn't someone decide that enough harsh lessons to the rest of the world are enough? If nothing else of substance was highlighted by this programme, maybe this was.

Not a criticism, just an observation.

hostienomore

17th Feb 2006, 16:10

OK - if the reporters were NOT allowed to film in the air, then how did they manage to capture crew members sleeping???? Those cabin crew could have been on the ground taking a 5 min nap on a delay!
If they were sleepin in the air then dispatches have broken all rules by filming on an aircraft which is airbourne.

I used to work for FR and the statment by the reporter saying that cc only get £14 per sector? Untrue! Who in their right minds would work long and hard hours for £14 per sector? CC also get a basic pay on top of that.

About the sick - i would NEVER have departed with that lying on the floor in a completely full flight. Any Captain would have happily called out the airport cleaners for me! I should know it happened a few times.

FR take safety VERY seriously! I dont know any pilot who would be willing to fly a plane with a tech problem and risk their own lives.

The bars on board have to be sealed on the ground due to customs and as someone said in an earlier post, can you imagine them getting clearance for take off and the cabin is not secure because drink trolleys are out and all the pax are sitting with tray tables down.

AND the story in an earlier post about the crew having to axe a toilet door oper - as if! ALL crew are trained to open the door from the outside and as a no1 i made sure all my crew knew at the beginning of the day just incase of a medical emergency or someone smoking.

I hope this clears up a couple of points for some people!

MrBeach

17th Feb 2006, 16:12

fmgc

17th Feb 2006, 16:14

Many pilots fail assesments with one company only to get a job with another. Doesn't mean to say that they are not good pilots.

GGV

17th Feb 2006, 16:15

This has already been posted this in the Channel 4 thread. The content of the post I will leave to others to comment on - looks like there are lots of opportunities for logic chopping here!

outofsynch

17th Feb 2006, 16:20

Guess who is greasing for a job in RYR....

Passed assessment for brown nosing .. not flying skill

fmgc

17th Feb 2006, 16:23

Those three B737 pilots not passing ryanair assessment are flying in other companys in Europe.

The more I think about it the more ridiculous thing that is to say!

If no pilot who had ever failed an assesment was enever given a job there would hardly be any pilots flying at all!

acbus1

17th Feb 2006, 16:26

Hmm. Reminds me of BA in a contradictory way.

I've always had respect for BA's standards and safety record. (I won't consider efficiency/slickness.....that's a completely different story).

It defies logic, though, when one sees the sort of people they've recruited over the years. Time and time again they've taken on complete dipsticks (and I mean real dumbos) and yet rejected good operators. :confused:

strawberriesfield

17th Feb 2006, 16:32

Mr Beach, I am agreeing with you and, by the way, this is way I (also)always fly Ryanair. ;)

whattimedoweland

17th Feb 2006, 17:17

Mr Beach,
I hope their English is better than yours!!.I have an aviation photography business and use an aircraft radio to obtain call signs to ensure I get the correct flight if requested to do a photo.
I have done this at Stansted and had no problem with EZY and others but could only make out a few call signs for 'RyanDARE'.
I just hope ATC at Stansted have degrees in Eastern European languages.;)

WTDWL.

Marko Ramius

17th Feb 2006, 17:35

I have not seen the C4 programme. But Ryanair pilots are among the best i Europe.

Bear in mind,
Those three B737 pilots not passing ryanair assessment are flying in other companys in Europe.

What an unbelievable thing to say. Are you suggesting that because they didn't get jobs with FR that they are not good enough to fly for another airline?

So once you have failed one interview for what ever reason, then you are not safe to fly for another?

Crass beyond belief.

Curious Pax

17th Feb 2006, 17:58

To be fair to Mr Beach I think he is saying that although the rejected pilots may have been rejected by RYR, they were sufficiently competent to be taken on by other airlines, reinforcing his view that Ryanair pilots are the creme de la creme, not suggesting that they were useless.

As my username suggests I am not qualified to comment on whether his view is correct or not, but I'm sure others will!

egbt

17th Feb 2006, 19:29

We were only 2 out of 7 who passed the Ryanair pilot Assessment the day i did it. And 3 pilots who failed are flying the Boeing737 in other companys. They did not passed. Just not good enogh in manual flying or in technical knowledge.

Or perhaps they failed the gullibility test:E

Globaliser

17th Feb 2006, 22:13

Streamline

17th Feb 2006, 22:45

Ryanair has brought reality back alive. Real flying, hard working ..... a true pilot enviroment. High weights (LOADS OF PAX), short runways loads of non precision and circling approaches and quick turnarounds. In short a dream.

Leo Hairy-Camel

17th Feb 2006, 23:59

Memo to MOL: in the real world the facts come to bear in the end.
Baby, you ain't kiddin'. And we have unfinished business.

What you refuse, churlishly, to acknowledge though, is that the truth will set you free. How free do you wish to be, GGV?

Idunno

18th Feb 2006, 00:51

Didn't PARC Aviation get into hot water a couple years ago when an internal memo about the quality of people being hired by LoCo's was leaked to the press? It wasn't too complimentary as I recall.

They had to eat their words of course.

Total rubbish....they should know! ;)

coopervane

18th Feb 2006, 07:46

Perhaps Mr Beach's rejected pilots failed their assesments because they insisted on doing a walk round instead of a runaround.

I must admit that I have never heard such "I am so up myself" comments on a thread on here. Ministry of self importance or what!!!

Just because you flew the sim well on the day and said all the right company lines to the assesor doesn't make you God's gift to aviation.

That right is reserved for the gifted who flew the 727 with Air Contractors!!!!

Coop & Bear

GGV

18th Feb 2006, 10:22

Hey Leo. Thanks for the reply, but you don’t seem to have read my post with sufficient care, possibly because you think you know who I am. One way or another all your remarks seem curiously off target. It’s like you are fighting a war for the meaning of truth (a hint of postmodernism there Leo!) and that you don’t read the words for what they say. I’ll try to put it again in another way:

You say to a ship’s captain that his crew contains many who fear for the seaworthiness of the vessel. You say you are not up to speed with all of this, but that some of the evidence seems worrying. You say to the captain that he is the boss and ask that instead of relying on endless positive statements and threats to the crew that he might examine the evidence by reflecting upon it away from the public arena. You say that the sea is unforgiving and that it would therefore be a mistake to confuse rhetorical skills with seaworthiness.

You then ask him to think, rather than do more propaganda. You do this in a neutral way – as in, “I’m only making some observations and suggesting that you reflect a bit, ‘cause you are ‘de man’ not me and what you say is what counts”. Thus it was just an invitation to stop and think, and maybe even consider that you might have got it wrong (horror of horrors). By definition that is not the kind of activity best done in public – nor, were it to have been taken at face value, would it have generated a reply here on pprune.

After all, there are real judgments being made here. And, as for your question to me,How free do you wish to be, GGV?Leo I think I am a lot freer that you are, for you are manifestly imprisoned, shaped and driven by an ideology and I am not.

Arkroyal

18th Feb 2006, 10:25

Leo:
the truth will set you free.That'll be the kind of truth which allows liar MOL to suggest that his pilots work an average of 18 hours a week, then.

Wingswinger

19th Feb 2006, 07:46

I'd like to come in on Mr Beach's line about rejected pilots - I think I may be one of the failures to which he refers.

I didn't get a DEC job with Ryanair. Mind you, I didn't really want one. I was only going to apply when all other possibilities were exhausted but I was brow-beaten into it by the "management" at home on the basis that I couldn't afford not to apply for everything. Ryanair's selection day was the first assessment/interview I attended in my current job campaign. I will give them this: They moved like lightning to get me to EMA for their "day" - much quicker than any other company.

I didn't get an offer because I didn't press the right buttons at the interview and I kept asking awkward questions which the "pilot recruitment co-ordinator" wouldn't answer. I don't mean "couldn't", I mean "wouldn't". He was a shifty, evasive little O'Leary clone who couldn't look me in the eye. I asked much the same questions of the TC doing the assessment and met a completely different response. He was a pleasant fellow. I rather liked him.

So, "O'Leary Clone" turned down an ex-RAF FJ, current BA A320 Captain with 14,000 hours and a total of 13 years experience as an instructor/TC.

I am currently trying to pick one out of three good offers which I have, all qualitatively better than working for Ryanair.

At the selection day I gained the impression that, on the flight-deck at least, Ryanair is as professional as any other airline.

I think the C4 Dispatches programme was pathetic - until the last ten-fifteen minutes when the true nature of the beast was revealed to the public. What the public does with the information is up to the public.

FWIW, Ryanair pilots are the best-paid shorthaul pilots in Europe - apart from BA shorthaul pilots, Air France shorthaul pilots, Lufthansa shorthaul pilots and Iberia shorthaul pilots to name but four.

Cheers.

Ws

MaximumPete

19th Feb 2006, 11:06

Wingswinger

From what I've seen on this thread you've had a lucky escape.

Just because a pilot doesn't get a job with a particular airline doesn't mean to say he's:mad: He's just not their sort of person for whatever reason.

Strong sub-cultures exist wthin the operating environment of an airline and if you don't fit in life can be very very miserable.

Good luck in your next job

MP:hmm:

Bluesleep

19th Feb 2006, 11:56

Anyone know of a website where you can watch the episode?

CAT3A

19th Feb 2006, 14:56

To fail an interview or assesment means nothing, everybody knows that

To say that any particular company has the best pilots that is wrong and insulting to other colleagues, everybody knows that.

I have enough years and experience in the industry to be able to say that every company has good pilots and average pilots, good people and bad people and that is TRUE regardless of nationality.

Ryanair pilots have good handling skills by nature of the type of flying they do but you need other skills as well to be consider good pilot.

Humility is one !!!

By the way I worked for RYANAIR as well.

Great people with nice multinational enviroment.

corsair

19th Feb 2006, 15:47

I doubt if any of this will impact the public who fly Ryanair much. While I watching the programme, (which I was a bit disappointed with). I turned to my wife and said 'Are you watching this programme about Ryanair?'. 'Oh yes' she says. 'Ryanair they are having a seat sale until midnight. Let's get on the computer and book a weekend away.' Well she is blonde:). I thought I had indoctrinated her better. So now we are going to Girona almost as a direct result of the programme. Bad publicity, what bad publicity?

I could have stood on my principles but I'm more afraid of her than anything Ryanair could throw at me. Besides I trust the pilots, some of whom are friends of mine, to be professional. However I do believe and I think the programme highlighted this. The culture of the company. The whole approach to dealing with it's employees and customers will in the end kill people.

I just can't help feeling that one bad weather day a fatigued Captain or one that has already had a brush with his boss will make a decision based on his fear of losing his job or demotion and make just one more approach..................................

Midland 331

19th Feb 2006, 20:22

The culture of the company. The whole approach to dealing with it's employees and customers will in the end kill people.
I just can't help feeling that one bad weather day a fatigued Captain or one that has already had a brush with his boss will make a decision based on his fear of losing his job or demotion and make just one more approach..................................
True, sadly. I suspect that these circumstances can be traced as a pattern in many incidents.
In all this, I can't help but recall the Valujet fire in Florida. The whole concept of "the show must go on" having tragic consequences.

Dan Winterland

20th Feb 2006, 03:50

News of this programme has even reached the Far East. From today's South China Morning Post (Hong Kong), written by Anna Healey-Fenton.

No Frills, no cheers.

European low-cost carrier Ryanair may have grown to 40 million passengers in 20 years without an accident, but anyone who saw the British Channel 4 Dispatches documentary last week about the budget airline probably shuddered.

Though the footage shot by two undercover reporters posing as staff showed nothing specifcally alarming, seeing crew with no time to clean vomit from seats between flights and falling asleep on duty did not inspire confidence.

Ryanair's tyically impudent response was to raise two fingers to the programme abd take full-page advertisemsnts offereing three million "0 GBP tickets - just pay taxes and charges".

It's hard to disagree with industry magazine Flight International's call for Ryanair's operating model to undergo a full audit.

Marvin the Robot

20th Feb 2006, 05:23

Everyone is still harping (intentional) on about Ryanair as if they are all alone out there as the only airline "guilty" of the Channel 4 accusations!

Other posters have explained that things in their airline are just as bad.

bmi baby, Jet2, Easyjet and quite a few more. All as bad according to real life employees of those airlines. Much better to hear from the horse's mouth than to believe edited TV documentaries aimed at one victim.

It really annoys me that Channel 4 have installed "Ryanair blinkers" on most of the viewing public. It annoys me just as much that the viewing public don't seem to have the brains to reach up and remove them!

Never mind though....the next airline to leave a smoking wreck in a hole in the ground will catch your attention (though some which have already achieved that distinction seem to have been forgiven.....blame the pilot is always such a good ploy, isn't it). I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if the name on the side of the wreckage is not Ryanair.

bacardi walla

20th Feb 2006, 07:39

I wonder how many people who post replies in this thread actually work for Ryanair or have actually had first hand experience of the way Ryanair actually look upon their staff.

It's easy for outsiders to cast an opinion on what they perceive to be going on, but if they had the true facts, they would be even more rattled than what they were after watching the Channel 4 programme.

captjns

20th Feb 2006, 09:51

Folks... I'm here to tell you that all airlines are the same... The only differene is their colour scheme, setting aside the coffee and tea isssue.

fmgc

20th Feb 2006, 10:19

It is a travesty to suggest that all airlines are the same.

MorningGlory

20th Feb 2006, 11:45

CarltonBrowne the FO

20th Feb 2006, 12:43

All airlines are quite definitely NOT the same... if a delay causes our passengers to miss a connection, or if a flight is cancelled, they can expect some help getting to their destination as fast as possible, rather than merely a refund and directions to the bus station!

captjns

20th Feb 2006, 12:49

acbus1

20th Feb 2006, 13:55

I wouldn't say all airlines are the same.

However, in terms of the points raised against Ryanair in the Channel 4 programme, many UK airlines definitely are remarkably similar. The programme reminded me, in amazing detail, of a typical set of scenarios in an airline I used to work for (but, thankfully, ascaped from).

It's therefore unfair to broadcast a programme which declares Ryanair to be the only airline operating in the fashion depicted.

Maybe they should do a series.....

"Dispatches....bmi."

"Dispatches....EasyJet."

"Dispatches....Jet2."

You'd find it would become equally scathing and very repetitive!

captjns

20th Feb 2006, 14:04

Here here!

Globaliser

20th Feb 2006, 17:27

A refund and directions to the bus station is help... is it not?No, it is not. Not from this SLF's PoV.

captjns

20th Feb 2006, 18:44

I can't help cringing sometimes when I hear FR on the radio and the controllers can barely understand the pilots broken English....
I think a requirement on the job application is to be able to speak fluent English.... hmm...

Can't believe that some people still think FR pilots are the best paid in Europe.. Maybe if every other airline in Europe stops paying their pilots pension contributions, Health Care, loss of license etc etc, then their claim will be valid..

I can't help cringing sometimes when I hear some controllers on the radio and pilots can barely understand the controllers' broken English....
I think a requirement on their job application is to be able to speak fluent English.... hmm...

Hey by the way Master of the English language... you can't require an application to do anything. An application is usually a piece of paper. Maybe what you meant to say is that it should be a requirement, for all individuals in our field such as pilots and controllers alike, to read, to write, to speak, and most important, understand the English language.

captjns

20th Feb 2006, 18:50

No, it is not. Not from this SLF's PoV.

Before I can respond to your statement, I need to know the term "SLF". Also, would you tell me what "perfect passenger oriented carrier, that can do no wrong to its passengers" do you fly for?

Desk Driver

20th Feb 2006, 18:57

CNN are reporting that Ryanair had 4 lightening strikes on Sunday afternoon over Northern Spain. (All possible if it's the same thunderstorm I know) But Pax were claiming that FR Officials stated it was in fact because of Operational reasons.....Is this a way around the EU Compensation laws I wonder

sled dog

20th Feb 2006, 19:12

Does FR deliberately fly into Cu Nims now ?
" Operational reasons " ? :mad: :eek:

captjns

20th Feb 2006, 19:40

SLF = "Self Loading Freight"

From his profile, Globaliser doesn't claim to be a working for an airline......

To step into the fray, I do (work for an airline), & I airline regularly all round Europe (national carriers, low cost, the lot - including Aeroflot). I have noted minor safety/SEP "discrepancies" with many of them (such as refuelling with pax boarding, no PA, doors not "manned" - & cabin crew often not even aware of refuelling in progress).

However, if I have to express an opinion, I very much share the views of other posters that "indocrination" of FR pilots about what they can/can't do without fear of repercussions is potentially worrying.

While your intentions are noble, however, you really don't have the right to criticize any carrier representing others views. You personally need to be on the front lines to see what we as crewmembers experience. At various airports, it's not the air carriers' employees but contracted ground handlers that service the aircraft and passengers at various locations. On a specific flight, your will have a company dedicated to checking passengers in, a second company that dedicted to baggage handling, a third company for fueling, etc. In fact, you may not be aware but many locations have a separate company that deals with wheel chair passengers too.

Idunno

20th Feb 2006, 20:31

The wrath of Allah!

As I said in the Dispatches thread - the media have their sights set on FR now. MOL thinks he got off scot free by using the standard threats and bullying tactic to intimidate them, but they'll be out to throw every bit of dirt they can now, and he'll never beat them at that game.

Global Pilot

2nd Mar 2006, 18:42

MOL has written to all staff at RYR in response to the recent Dispatches program. Here is an extract:

"None of the pilots or cabin crew or instructors who featured in the programme will be subject to any disicplinary measures or any other consequences whatsoever as a result of any of the unguarded comments they made in situations where they where being secretly filmed without their permission or authority. Such comments can be heard in the canteens or coffee rooms of most companies and no one should or will suffer any consequences as a result of these comments. After all if whinging or bull****ting was a disciplinary offence, some of our Dublin pilots would have left us long ago"

Edited to correct spelling errors. This is only one paragraph from a long memo.

Shanwickman

2nd Mar 2006, 19:35

Global Pilot is this your synopsis of an alleged letter to staff or is it word for word. I ask because there are a number of spelling and grammar errors in your post.

Global Pilot

2nd Mar 2006, 19:44

Shanwickman... errors corrected..I hope!

captjns

2nd Mar 2006, 19:44

Global Pilot is this your synopsis of an alleged letter to staff or is it word for word. I ask because there are a number of spelling and grammar errors in your post.

He retyped a paragraph that was issued to the employees. With exception of spelling errors... its accurate

Founder

6th Mar 2006, 20:19

The tv-show about ryanair was seen on Tv in Sweden tonight and a lot of friends of mine have called me asking if it's really like the program sais it is...

I don't know what to tell them... But I personaly think that the Ryanair mangement might not know about the errors commited if they aren't reported by the staff. Someone has to tell the boss what's going on or he'll never be able to do something about it...

But this is off course pure speculation...

Hotel Tango

6th Mar 2006, 21:15

Founder, I think your of course went a bit off course. Finger trouble of course I expect. ;)

Pilot Pete

6th Mar 2006, 21:38

After all if whinging or bull****ting was a disciplinary offence, some of our Dublin pilots would have left us long ago

If these words are direct text from a letter from Ryanair management to all their pilot employees I think it displays exactly the attitude which many claim exists, but which Ryanair continue to deny, i.e. they hold their employees virtually in contempt.

I find it saddening that the authorities turn such a blind eye to this sort of behaviour and feel it will indeed take an accident before some action will be taken. Sad but true, some never learn in this industry.

PP