New Met Aircraft

[ralphmalph]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2036152,00.html

Does anyone know what these are going to be?

I imagine the jobs are all sewnup by now!?

Ralph

[fishboy]

A guess at MD Explorers??
Something quiet and fairly small with two engines.

[Leaky Valve]

The Met will shortly be the proud (?) owner of 3 EC145.

[i4iq]

Why would the Met be using those colours?

[Head Turner]

This paint scheme is just how they leave EC enroute to Oxford. Following the fitting out at Oxford they will get their operational colours and my guess is that they will be the dark blue and yellow so much loved by the UK police forces. Yuck!!!

[Coconutty]

Fishboy -
Something quiet and fairly small with two engines
Not quiet, not fairly small, but it has got 2 engines ;)
... and just as prone as the Virgin HEMS 902 to attack by bits of shop front :uhoh:

It sure will be re-painted, ( expect a very dark blue for the main body and a yellow top -
standard Police "High Conspicuity colours -
assuming the Home Office still insist on this if they are part funding the purchase.

All 3 aircraft will be re-registered to the Met. -
This one ( Serial No. 9075 ) will be G-MPSC,
the other two will be G-MPSA ( Serial No. 9065 ) and G-MPSB ( Serial No. 9068 ).
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d129/coconut11/coconut.jpg
Coconutty

[Fortyodd2]

It is my understanding that the new Met EC145's will be painted in the same livery as the new Met Police Cars - Silver with a red/orange/red cheat line. As their main operating area is in controlled airspace they didn't feel the need to go for the dark blue/yellow scheme.

[PANews]

As far as the preferred colours goes - 'On the button' Fortyodd. But the Home Office might still insist on their conspicuity scheme by the time the first machine goes in the paint shop later this year.

That Times article is not to be taken as gospel ... at one point it seems to suggest that the three 145s are being added to the existing fleet of 355Ns.. things may change but the last time around they had returned to getting rid of them. All three aircraft are in the UK awaiting role equipment. Brushing off the dust might be a major consideration on No3 meanwhile. And if the Met get any one of those aircraft for just £3M there will be a major Commons Enquiry. They could hold it in one of the hospitality boxes at Twickenham!

In general the Times thing seems to be written from a firearms rather that air support aspect. Since the firearms team left the same site as the helicopter in Loughton for the wilds of Kent there is a greater need for SWAT transport to get them back to the city when needed... all pushed along by 9/11 and 7/7 considerations. Loughton was 5 minutes but I am not sure of the flight time from their new firearms base... 10? 15?

[PANews]

Nothing to do with the thread... just a strange happening ... is Pprune broke?

Four hours ago this appeared in my in tray.... but still has not been posted...

REMOVED SEE BELOW

[ShyTorque]

"I also heard they were looking at a sytem for the rear of the 145 to enable the a Police sniper to operate from, Anybody else heard this?"
Uh-oh! :uhoh:
This is the worrying part. I hope they aren't proposing a sniper, firing single, aimed shots from a vibrating platform, out in the open and affected by gusts, operating against what sort of threat?.......... Any number of terrorists armed with AK-47s or similar, firing automatic bursts from behind cover?

Count me out, thanks - been there, trained for it, but extremely glad I never had t odo it for real. Even at night the helicopter presents a comparitively easy, if not a "sitting" target. It's a big risk and I hope they consider all options to minimise it.

[Whirlygig]

PA News,

The poster could have the deleted the post but not before e-mail notifications went out!

If that was the case, he might be a tad dis-chuffed!

Cheers

Whirls

[jayteeto]

I have had a close up look at a couple of the aircraft in a hangar and they are fabulous. Looks like a lot of the optional extras are fitted. Our 135 is good enough for our job, but a nice shiny new 145 would look nice at liverpool.....

[PANews]

Must admit I never gave that a thought Whirls.

I will step back and ediit

[Skidkid]

Dark Blue and Yellow colours may be rather "yucky" but they are certainly good for conspicuity at low level. The vast majority of other Police operators and the Defence Helicopter School at Shawbury seem to agree.

I can't think of a worse colour than silver for conspicuity, it blends in beautifully with the grey British weather! I wonder what the Heathrow, Northwood and London City ATC Tower controllers are going to think? Trying to spot them visually when they are operating close in to their airfields is going to be very tricky.

There may be a fair bit of controlled airspace in London, but there is a lot of free airspace as well. Fairoaks, Biggin Hill, Elstree and Stapleford are all very busy and there is a lot of VFR traffic that routes around the edges of the Heathrow and City zones.

[Brilliant Stuff]

Maybe they could invest in some of those lights which light up the tail and the main body of the aircraft and make it even more visible.

[Thomas coupling]

£5.5 million each for starters.
MET police colour scheme - though this, in my opinion flies in the face of common sense and flight safety.
Shooting from a police helo in the UK will require a massive repeat massive sea of change from all main players [HO / ACPO / CAA].
Getting rid of their 355's.

All they need now is a better engine and she'll do VTOL as well then:ok:

[spinwing]

Mmmm methinks that unless the said sniper had led a previous life as a Kiwi deer shooter he won't have a hope in hell of hitting anything aimed at from the back of a moving EC145.... Daft idea ...

And anyway the paperwork will just not allow for it !!!

:confused:

[Droopy]

Anyone care to speculate on why they've requested hard points for winches?

[Fortyodd2]

"Anyone care to speculate on why they've requested hard points for winches?"

....................Possibly because they've also purchased the winches and will need some means of fitting them - along with the Fast Roping/Abseiling kits methinks........only a stab in the dark mind...............;)

[aeromys]

Just playing Devil's Advocate, if there existed an HO reccommendation that Police Air Ops heli's adopt a high conspicuous paint scheme, and a UEO chose to ignore that, and there was an air prox or even worse, a collision, who do we sue?

I'm guessing the sniping will be done from the side doors, as the 145 isn't cleared to open the rear clamshell doors in flight. Unless they are arranging some sort of letterbox in the rear?

[old heliman]

TC, shooting from an a/c would actually require re-thinking from ICAO and the UK Government rather than CAA as it is contrary to the Chicago Convention to fire weapons from a civil a/c and as the UK is a signatory to that it would be illegal under that International Treaty. Don't ask how the Bundespolizei do it....if they do of course, not to mention the land of the free {except for those in detention camps of course :>) }

Before you ask TC.....soon.:D

[Thomas coupling]

That's what I said OH: ICAO (CAA as agents) and government (Home Office).

That soon eh? ;)

[hangnail]

Just playing Devil's Advocate, if there existed an HO reccommendation that Police Air Ops heli's adopt a high conspicuous paint scheme, and a UEO chose to ignore that, and there was an air prox or even worse, a collision, who do we sue?

The UEO (who he?) must be sweating a bit then 'cos all the pictures I've seen of police aircraft flying over London in the past 20 years shows them in white livery - what's the current implication of that then, bearing in mind that the HO colour scheme has been about for quite a few years now?

And can I ask who's this 'we' as referred to in 'who do we sue?' Can I assume that you work on the London police unit then and are a bit uncomfortable with what's going on down there?

HN

[jayteeto]

Interesting about the sniping comments. In my past life we tried a bit of that, along with machine guns in the door. I learned one valuable lesson, air to ground gunnery is about as accurate as Dick Cheney's duck hunting.....

[PANews]

Just a few potentially constructive comments....

..... on the colours of the Met aircraft.

Their first AS355N [originally G-METD] G-SEPA picked up a conspicuity scheme a handfull of years ago but the other two never did follow suit and are unlikely to now the three BK117C2/145s are ordered to replace them.

...... on the hard-points

Specifying hard-points does not necessarily mean they will be fitted. The Bell 222 was delivered with a winch in 1980 but never actually used. Not specifying hard points would be VERY expensive [maybe impossible] if it was decided to use them later.

and finally on the German question

I think that it may be that the German Police aircraft [all or most] at classified as State Aircraft and therefore outside civil regulations. And no, I do not see how that is squared with apparently civil registrations!

[jayteeto]

The winch is already fitted to one of the airframes.

[FloaterNorthWest]

I believe I am correct in saying that they have bought one winch to share between the airframes.

FNW

[Thomas coupling]

One APC (white van) and two gun ships....I believe:E

[handysnaks]

and finally on the German question

I think that it may be that the German Police aircraft [all or most] at classified as State Aircraft and therefore outside civil regulations. And no, I do not see how that is squared with apparently civil registrations!

and ours are too!.....apparently