Vic Police Air Wing On The Move? [Archive]

rivnut

2nd Mar 2006, 08:18

Hey Bomber,

Just got the guff from the inside.....

Looks like they are staying with the N3's and that the old C model is being replaced with another new N3 (NVG compatible from factory). Also the rumour is that their AS350 is being replaced with a light twin (also to be NVG compatible).
As far as goggles the latest is that they have around 10 sets of ANVIS 9 goggles sitting in the store, have got their application with CASA and that it is all OK with CASA, just waiting for one of the N3's to be modified, which is in the process of being done. Once the cockpit is done the Air Wing is ready to start training all its pilots and crew....this is all the info I could get.

maxeemum

2nd Mar 2006, 09:01

Is CJ the chief pilot or did CJ leave to go to Esso?

Max

:suspect:

LandOnePOBNone

3rd Mar 2006, 04:05

Maxee,
What is it with esso?
Why would someone leave the air wing to go there? Aren't they are all contractors these days anyway?
confused:
L1

maxeemum

3rd Mar 2006, 05:26

L1POB0

Contractor has lost the contract and positions are now Esso jumpers. First 11 means high timers and lotsa multi and CIR renewals. Better conditions and job security. S-76's to be replaced at some point with something that has than more than 2 x centrifugal compressors.

Good job for Oil and Gas. Fixed base and home every night except for currency TRG etc. Guys are good bunch of blokes and enjoy the op.

Max

:)

LandOnePOBNone

3rd Mar 2006, 08:44

Maxee,
thanx for the post. Better job security and conditions than Vicpol? I thought those guys were well paid with great super.
L1
:suspect:

maxeemum

4th Mar 2006, 05:04

Abosolutely Esso has better super and probably the same level of job security. Vic Pol was going through and industrial relations process approx 12-18 months ago which was the subject of a new EBA. Not sure how the guys faired however Esso well over the 6 fig mark for CAPTs and I think Vic Pol still under the 6 fig mark.

Working at Vic Pol for the $ makes life difficult when the job entails living in a capital city (housing dearer, kids schools, cost of living etc etc etc). Sale cheap and good options for boating ,close to snow, cost of living less.

Really boils downs to what you want to do.

1. Fly French twin, chase people, lost cats and dogs, missing Helgas caught in the Dandenongs, high speed pursuits travelling west through Broadmedows, Air ambulance.

"OR"

2. Fly an American twin, helicopter airlines, RPT fixed base 90% day ops 10 % night, and 7 days out of 14 working. More $ and cheaper living costs.

Both are multi eng jobs with a requirement for a CIR. Both have well maintained machines and both have a strict entry requirements to keep the tyre kickers away.

Either or. Whatever floats your heli!

:cool:

Max

rivnut

4th Mar 2006, 07:59

Hey maxeem,

Inside info is that CJ is not the CP, TG still is. CJ is back on line after filling in as C & T whilst MT was doing the deputy CP position as TG is back next week.

My informant tells me that a senior line driver at Vic Pol is on about $78,000 + shift allowances and OT (works out roughly to an extra $4000 a year) + super....that's it (around $82,000). The super is tied to how loyal you are.....that is, you got be in a long time, contribute about 8% and then you are rewarded with 8 times your salary...but you have to be in a looong time to get it....so my informant tells me.

So I guess ESSO pays real well and conditions real good....if you like going from A to B then back again day after day after day.....

LandOnePOBNone

4th Mar 2006, 08:08

Maxee,
With all due respect for your independent opinion I have to ask a question -are you already at esso or have close ties to someone who is?
What is their selection criteria for Capt and Co-pilot?
What can I expect is Vicpol's criteria for entry when they finally advertise?
Do you have to have nvg quals and experience (i.e. be ex mil)?
L1
:)

trapezoid

4th Mar 2006, 08:12

Hey Rivnut,

Oversimplifying things a little, aren't we?

That would be A to B,C,D,E,F,G,H,I,J,K,L,M,N,O,P,Q,or R and back plus all over in between, in pristine aircraft, challenging weather, most lifts max performance and on the fuel line.

For about half as much again as the cops, plus car, plus super (really good super), plus shares (in a pretty handy global company), plus golden handshake.

I hear that those guys really love it.

beers and cheers,

zoid

:ok:

maxeemum

4th Mar 2006, 08:49

L1POB0

From your handle (landed 1 ACFT no pax) I suspect you are ex mil, in fact you know you are. Don't know if NVG is a must however will help heaps. EMS and Pol air all going to be NVG eventually (better SA and no more black hole night unaided apps with the night sun). NVG Currently the domain of the mil. This will change as folks are trained up however, at present NVG new commers may be too expensive to insure and hence ex mil (NVG Qualified) folks will probably get the gig. I suspect that means > 10 hrs NVG and not the full faced fives from last century. This has been the recent experience with Aust Helicopters, and no I'm not at Esso.

Requiremets for Esso, CHC, Bristows as a CAPT, lotsa multi (1500 hrs In Comd min) and at least 3000 hrs Heli. The rest depends upon Market forces. Most folks have the tot heli but can't get enough china graph to log the multi.

Vic Pol succuessful in their NVG trial however CASA yet to approve full time NVG ops in their AOC.

Birdie tells me they will advertise soon, however this is for a C & T posn.

Rivnut-All good stuff agree with all you have said. Still **** money to punch a med level twin around IFR and maintain a CIR and potentially operate on NVG's. As I said it depends on what floats your heli, given the choice and the mix of guys at Esso I would/will choose Esso.

Either way both good options.

Good luck to all.

Max

:cool:

PO dust devil

4th Mar 2006, 09:21

Greetings All,

I'll buy today, Guinness all round?

The cops have a few more unlisted perqs. Like how much is time off worth to you. Many PAW guys (including past and present management pilots) have worked a lot of casual during their NINE weeks annual leave and accrued time off.

Say, these days you can get between $325 and $495 - ish per day doing casuals, you could build as much as $31185 (calculators out) if you worked those 63 days A/L. Plus, you could work 1 or 2 days per fortnight around town or up the snow flying or doing some external C&T. Makes that money look pretty good now doesn't it? 82k plus say conservatively 25k AND cheap Maccas to boot.... boys you're into six numbers and a top menu there.

Some guys are always crying poor... what is it.....I didn't know we were in the year of the dollar. By the way, I am not being picky about it, sheesh!!.... sounds like a great idea to me.

In the interest of all cards on the table,

DD

maxeemum

4th Mar 2006, 09:44

DD

Understand what you have said. Good luck to the boys and I'll have a Killkeny as well. Not sure I would want to work on my hols cause I like my hols. Moon lighting is generally cause you need the extra money.

Places like Esso, CHC, Bristows are all about working 7 days out of 14 and then having 6 weeks off plus 10 paid sick days a year leave, so "time off" calculators out thats 6 months working a year (26 wks) minus 6 wks off for leave thats 20 wks per year working (not including sick leave) for over (well and truly) the 6 fig, plus a car plus super plus hand shake, plus the guys there can always hack some ADF reserve time (tax free $) on their days off if they want.

As you said what price do you put on your time (heaps)

Persoanlly I would rather run a second business and ski in the winter.

As I said previous It all depends on what floats your Heli.

Beer O'clock

Max

:ok:

trapezoid

4th Mar 2006, 09:58

I'm with you Max,

Who wants to WORK on leave or time off....sheeesh!

:confused:

maxeemum

4th Mar 2006, 10:09

Touche Trap

I would rather sail my boat or race my REX off road. Hols are for time to re-cage your gyros.

Max.

:p

Rocket Surgeon

4th Mar 2006, 11:38

Okay you two, time to close the Esso PR department for the night.

Places like Esso, CHC, Bristows are all about working 7 days out of 14

Just how do you manage to compare Esso to two companies that actually offer an equal time roster?

Bristow: 14 days on / 14 days off
Esso: 4 days off each fortnight, i.e. 20 days on / 8 days off

Or were you counting your night standby duties as off days?? In that case, when you get called in, you'd be working on your time off.....sheeesh!!

Out of CHC, Bristow, Esso and VicPol, it is Esso which comes bottom of the heap in terms of time off (both quality & quantity) - the only one NOT to offer an equal time roster.

While we're at it, how about comparing annual flying rates & duty hours :zzz: :yuk:

PO dust devil

4th Mar 2006, 12:21

Oh yeah....better believe it. Time is gold. Forget floating helis, I think a days sailing in the bay is in order....as soon as I can get a couple of free days together to clean it and service the bearings on my trailer.

We all like our vacations. Plenty of time for to take a gap for a quality break. You could ski a month overseas and still work for five weeks of your leave and/or generous time off associated with the current VPAW shift models.

The point I make is that the "similar" money is there if you want to work similar number of weeks a year. Not for everyone. AND there are a significant number of VPAW and others who actually do run viable businesses and ski (cheaply midweek) as well.

(The chaser has given me a bit of a guinness rush so indulge me as I drift off topic a bit).

A change is as good as a holiday and whether you fly to gain more ticks in the box or run a XXXX video shop or send racehorse rations to bongo congo racing club, then money is there for reasonable effort.....as it should be.

I can't think of any offshore guys working 7 days out of 14. That may be the time they are at work, but my intell from "The Tiger" is that 7's a minimum and they also do up to 36 hrs on night standby as well in a fortnight. 0700 to 1700 is 10hrs.....then times 7 or 8 equals better than 70 hrs a fortnight at work plus 36 standby, so about 106hrs available to work, some whilst sleeping.....I don't hear them making choking noises about it, but. The contract F/O there will probably need to watch F&DT limits as they don't have the n/standby.

Tourers, live more like 15/13days or worse 6/6weeks, 7/5weeks and at post away from home for the full period. No six weeks A/L in the touring world I think. If we are thinking they "just" work six months a year that's something we should refer to them, partners and loved ones.

The SPIFR EMS side of the world are available for very long periods during the working roster with 14hr standbys prior to 24hr duty shifts, three times in 6 days with 3 days FOD. That works out to be 88 hrs a week available for duty (38*3, /9,*7) Some would choose this lifestyle but once again not for everyone and certainly not for the fainthearted! Again although some is done sleeping, I don't hear too many offshore guys scrambling over themselves to get into this.

Pretty much, I reckon that all these things have pros and cons. If it feels good then do it....discretely as necessary.

As for Moi....hmmm. my glass has become warm, can someone top me up..

DD

PS On topic Oh yeah, I reckon Docklands would be the obvious choice for relocation of VPAW. YMMB is too South centric as lots of villians live in the North and West as well. Fewer Nav and Radar fees, central to major CBD events, nice transport access, higher visual profile, better noise acceptance. I would above all suggest that the viability of police aviation would be enhanced by the likelihood of the crooks being caught because of it.

(edited because I misspelt Guinness)

trapezoid

4th Mar 2006, 21:21

Oi Rocket Surgeon,

You forgot to mention that in the case of the two companies that offer "genuine" equal time rosters that the "on" time is usually in some sh*t hole, away from your family and whatever quantifies your lifestyle. :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

So the Esso guys fly a lot. Is that a bad thing is it? They spend their off days (and yes, also their night standby days), polishing their hogs, boats and whatever.

How did we get so far off topic?

Rocket Surgeon

4th Mar 2006, 22:19

It may be your over zealous championing of the nirvana that is Esso. You surely couldn't expect to maintain the sycophantic double act with maxeemum without being called on a few points??

Enjoy your weekend in the bubble.....or are you PPRuNe-ing from the yacht/hog/REX/etc. (delete as appropriate)

trapezoid

4th Mar 2006, 22:20

sticks and stones...

Oh, I don't work there... didn't say it suited me, just that is a good deal if it suits you.

And I definetly know that touring makes my skin break out.

;)

maxeemum

5th Mar 2006, 02:16

mmmmm Trought and Barra Isl, West Nigeria, SE Asia, Qatar, Gulf of Mexico,

In the words of Cartman from South Park "I do believe that sucks ass"

Each to his own. Good luck to all.

There are plenty of folks on their third marriage living on SAO biscuits trying to save as much of their DTA as they can that end up dead heading to Darwin so they can get to a "position position" location in order to strap in.

Again Beer O'clock

Max

:p

LandOnePOBNone

5th Mar 2006, 07:29

Touchee Maxee,

You got me in 1. Dropped in from another thread having once been a card carrying member of the helo brigade.

I don't know if you've been told that Navy wings are made of gold.
Air Force wings still have some class as they're made of solid brass.
Army wings have little cred, rumour has it they're made of lead.

There I've said it - that should give you a clue as to my past.
Sick of my present position and thought I'd be in with a show at VPAW or maybe even esso, unfortunately I have little twin helo time, you young chaps have that all sewn up by the looks.

Good luck to you all - MMSoBGYTaST.

L1:D

rivnut

5th Mar 2006, 08:25

hey folks,

the way I see it the grass can always seem greener on the other side of the fence.

I don't work for Vic Pol or ESSO or Jayrow but I have good friends in each of them and all these companies have alot to offer pilots down in Victoria. ESSO is an excellent job if you like RPT style of flying and living out of Sale in very much rural Victoria. Jayrow is becoming a force to reckon with in the offshore market with an excellent facility in Tooradin which is semi rural yet close to the hussle and bustle...this is a company to watch. And Vic Pol has been around along time (since 1979) flying ME SPIFR. It is in the hussle and busstle and is great flying because of its varied type of operations, from EMS to Police to SAR. The only complaint I get is mostly related to the CP who seems to have a very bombastic style of leadership. They operate two types of rosters, a 4 day on and 4 day off for the EMS (over an 8 week cycle) then its back to Police / SAR ops on a 10 hour roster (4 days on &3 days off). Yes they do get 9 weeks leave but then most helo operators offer 6 weeks and the extra 3 weeks is because the police pays for a 38 hour week + for working public holidays and weekends on a 24 hour shift system.

So I guess there is no perfect job...you just make the best of what you have then move on if its not to your liking!!

Oh by the way apparently CASA has already approved Vic Pol's NVG ops in principle and the only thing holding things up is the cockpit mod....aparently CHC has some issues and are holding things up. Once the cockpit is moded the green light will turn on for flight training to commence.

PO dust devil

5th Mar 2006, 08:36

This is all very nice but who's shout is it?

maxeemum

5th Mar 2006, 08:45

L1

Yes I have heard your song many times in my previous career. Rum bum and C*M for you mate, is that politically correct?. If I had a dollar for every time I have heard that saying I wouldn't have to fly for a crust. Service life was good enjoyed the twin time and the fish milk shakes. Moved on and now running my own show. Huey, 206, Wessex all good however you should try and top up with some BK-117, 412, S-76 etc. Pay scales increase and options get better and varied.

Life is good now and glad I did my time to get the experience needed. ADF is a different place to when I was a boggie.

Are we off the track I suspect so. Good luck with V Pol. Esso are cut and dry with the twin time. 1500 hrs or resume in the bottom drawer.

Good luck with the recruitment drive.

PM me if you need some info on the scene.

Max.

:O

maxeemum

5th Mar 2006, 08:54

DD mate you sound like a legend. If I am down VIC way and assuming you are there, drinks all round, and yes its my shout. One Guiness and one Kilkenny thanks.

Rivnut-Mate sounds like you have it scunned. Level headed approach.

Sounds like all of us agree that the industry is many and varied and will be around long after we all hang up our boots. The trick is to find a niche that offers what you need. When you find that place stay there as long as you can cause there are some full on ship wreck of aviators around the traps. I met a cabbie at Mascot the other day who was ex mil, Cathay pilot on his second marriage with no life and no job and absolutely hated everything and everybody-Poor Pri*k

Again I am off the track. Good luck and enjoy.

Max

:eek:

vpaw pilot

8th Mar 2006, 04:23

PAW have taken folk with lots of SE time (with CIR ex mil), but you pretty much need a bunch of twin time and instrument time to get in these days....

But send your resume in anyway :)

rivnut

8th Mar 2006, 08:15

The whisper is that the chief pilot is back next week, then the deputy CP position will be advertised in the 'Australian newspaper'. If the position is filled internally by a line pilot then they will advertise soon after for a line pilot.

Oh my contact says that morale is starting to fall with the coming of the CP!!!:{

PO dust devil

9th Mar 2006, 09:59

Greetings all.

Maybe they told you the sky was falling as well. Sounds like "they" need something constructive to do. Busy people rarely have time to bring morale down.

IMHO

DD

rivnut

12th Mar 2006, 06:04

Hey PO you are absolutely right! From what I'm told, apparently the CP must have alot of time on his hands (to dream up problems)!:ok:

Critical Reynolds No

13th Mar 2006, 09:23

So will they be leaving YMEN?

vpaw pilot

14th Mar 2006, 10:29

Apparently not, but then again, anything is possible......

rivnut

14th Mar 2006, 21:34

Yep anything is possible in this world....but in this case I would be very surprised, unbelievably surprised if Vic Pol Airwing ever moved from EN....they would have to shut the place down first.

Other news....aparently Vic Pol is advertising in this Friday's Australian Newspaper.... vacancies for a Chief Check & Training Pilot (Senior Pilot).

Overwait

15th Mar 2006, 02:36

Can anyone confirm?? Just heard that he was given a Don't Come Monday by the Chief Commissioner late yesterday.

Must have been a bit of a shock seeing as he hasn't been there the last few months...what happened??

Time Bomb Ted

15th Mar 2006, 04:33

RIVNUT,

You don't like the CP much do you?

TBT

rivnut

15th Mar 2006, 07:56

TBT

I don't like anyone...:*

Overwait

15th Mar 2006, 08:04

TBT,

RIVNUT is only posting thoughts that most of the pilot community seem a little hesitant to convey.

From what I' ve heard, the party poppers and whistles haven't stopped for 24 hours.

:ok:

Rocket Surgeon

15th Mar 2006, 11:57

So, let me get this straight.....as of this moment, Vic Pol has no Chief Pilot, no Senior Pilot and is down one check and trainer!??

Since one would typically expect the Senior Pilot to step into the Chief Pilot role, how many vacancies will be advertised in this Friday's Australian??

Who will interview and chose the new recruits - the Chief Commissioner??

Or will a few of the remaining line drivers move up a notch??

All very fascinating.

topendtorque

15th Mar 2006, 12:46

looks like it and it must where they have all the drive by shootings! a mighty dangerous place

Delta Torque

15th Mar 2006, 19:33

Don't panic friends....

All is under control.....:ok:

PO dust devil

15th Mar 2006, 22:48

Has the guy done anything wrong? I doubt it. Just left his patch unattended for too long and the rabbits have been running the place.....no cabbages left.

Maybe some Esso guys will jump across. There is a heap of experience down there.

Times will get interesting.

DD

trapezoid

15th Mar 2006, 23:02

I doubt it DD.

Methinks only a desperation to live in Melbourne would entice them to hand in their car keys, fuel cards and take a $20K paycut.

Delta Torque

15th Mar 2006, 23:17

No rabbits up at EN, AB....unless you are talking about those mutant hares out on the grass :uhoh:

Just a bunch of professional guys doing a difficult job, who incidently have nothing to do with the current issue....

Cheers....

Time Bomb Ted

16th Mar 2006, 00:53

So Rivnut,

You have obviously a large axe to grind against the CP. You wouldn't happen to be one of the bunnies running around stabbing the boss in the back while he is not there to defend himself to further your own agenda would you?

Just curious.

TBT

Delta Torque

16th Mar 2006, 03:11

Time Bomb,

You are obviously well acquainted with the details of this issue...(not)

Perhaps you should talk to the horse in question, and get the facts straight from the horse's mouth....

Cheers...

Time Bomb Ted

16th Mar 2006, 03:27

You're right Delta.

I'm just trying to find out why Rivnut has it in for TG, and if he is inside Vicpol, then it sets a very dangerous precedent. I've met the team and they seem to me like stand up blokes, so this surprises me.

Cheers right back at ya...

Delta Torque

16th Mar 2006, 06:13

Yes,

They are stand up blokes...:)

rivnut

16th Mar 2006, 08:09

TBT,
I have nothing against TG or anyone else at Vic Pol....I'm just repeating what a few guys I know there have told me. I think you'll find that there were no 'bunnies' running around stabbing anyone and that the CPs removal was done from headquarters. Apparently it was a total surprise to everyone at Vic Pol Airwing.

I guess life goes on and no one is infallible....i'm sure the Air Wing will continue as is...a professional and dedicated unit.;)

Overwait

16th Mar 2006, 08:10

TBT,

Might be time for the TG love appreciation hour to wind up. He burnt himself...unfortunately for him his obsessive report writing bit him on the arse. That and his famed Napoleon complex.:}

Cest La Vie.

vpaw pilot

16th Mar 2006, 08:30

Now THERE are a couple of guys with their fingers on the pulse!

Overwait

16th Mar 2006, 08:37

VPAW Pilot,

Are you suggesting that what we've said is incorrect? I can never tell on PPrune when someone is having a dig.:E You know my PM!!

vpaw pilot

16th Mar 2006, 08:48

No sarcasm on my part.....

Time Bomb Ted

16th Mar 2006, 22:19

Fair enough.

If Headquarters sack the Chief Pilot, then doesn't the AOC also cease immediately. An "Acting" CP is not the same as a CASA approved one. Or has that been passed already by CASA?

TBT

bladebanger

16th Mar 2006, 22:45

TBT

You are correct regarding the AOC but CASA have different rules for the #igs.

BB

Delta Torque

16th Mar 2006, 23:26

Fair enough.

If Headquarters sack the Chief Pilot, then doesn't the AOC also cease immediately. An "Acting" CP is not the same as a CASA approved one. Or has that been passed already by CASA?

TBT
Your bush lawyer tendencies do not appear to include study of the Regulations...I think you will find the VPAW have numerous people who have the relevant approvals from CASA, and can act in those capacities...The fact that they are 'acting' merely reflects internal staffing protocols.

VPAW does not receive any special treatment from CASA in these matters...

Cheers....

Time Bomb Ted

16th Mar 2006, 23:56

Yeah I thought that VPAW wouldn't get special treatment from CASA, so if they are still flying, then either they have recieved approval from CASA for the acting CP to take over, or the CP is still the CP in the eyes of CASA.

Acting CP still needs to act under a CP. That is why it is called acting isn't it? Well it was when I was one anyway. CP not acting CP that is.

Ok now even I'm confused.

TBT

Delta Torque

17th Mar 2006, 00:14

No need to be confused, Time Bomb...

After receiving CP approval from CASA, an instrument is issued in the normal manner, specifying date, times or any other conditions....

That person then carries out the duties of CP....simple....

The word 'acting' is merely a reflection of internal staffing protocols, (vacancies, recruitments, interviews etc).

Cheers.....

Time Bomb Ted

17th Mar 2006, 00:33

So does the OC, whom I understand is a traffic cop, basically do the role of an Operations Manager?

I can see where some conflict would happen there.

Hypo Pathetically speaking of course:

OC: "Launch the helo ASAP, we have a villan on the loose in a stolen car."
CP:" But boss the weather is well below minimums and I consider it too dangerous."
OC: " Are you refusing a command from your immediate superior?"
CP: " Yes but it's not lawful for us to fly in these conditions nor is it safe for my crew."
OC: "I determine what is lawful, not you..."

To be continued...

If this is happening (and I'm not saying that it is.) then I'm sure CASA would want to know. The lessons from WA should be heeded.

I think VicPol Air wing have a very good reputation (not just because they carry guns) in the industry.

Keep up the good work. We could have used you guys up here yesterday afternoon. Bonnie and Clyde are back in Brisbane.. Woo Hoo.

TBT

bladebanger

17th Mar 2006, 00:41

Delta Torque

17th Mar 2006, 01:19

Delta Torque

I just spoke with a CASA FOI and asked this question.

Do CASA give Deputy Cheif pilot approvals.

The reply was NO.

I then asked that if I had been a cheif pilot before and on another AOC could I take up the role as cheif pilot.

The reply I got was you need to go threw the whole process again.

Now I am confussed.

BB

You are the only one talking about Deputy Cheif (sic) pilots....

You shouldn't be confused...your CP instrument is AOC specific...

Cheers....

P.S. 'I' before 'E' except after 'C' :uhoh:

Delta Torque

17th Mar 2006, 01:22

Delta Torque

17th Mar 2006, 01:58

[quote=Time Bomb Ted]So does the OC, whom I understand is a traffic cop, basically do the role of an Operations Manager?

Time Bomb,

I forgot to mention...I believe the Officer in Charge is an aviation savvy member with strong credentials, including Organised Crime, and Intel...He has lectured for Heli Pacific and others, both nationally and internationally...

And no...he doesn't do the role of an Operations Manager...the Operations Manager does that..;)

If you have a genuine interest in the VPAW orbat, give the lads a ring...they are on 24/7, and would be happy to fill you in......

Cheers....

blue leader

17th Mar 2006, 02:07

Neither are aviators - doesn't matter the credentials

Delta Torque

17th Mar 2006, 02:13

Cheers Blue Leader...

Even aviators need administrators in charge, if only to pay the overtime claims....:ok:

blade root

17th Mar 2006, 02:29

TBT,

How does this situation compare to the WA ASU lessons ?

I think you will find that the pilot can refuse an order which is unlawful, which your Hypo Pathetical situation would be. A senior officer can't make you break the law. Common sense really.

Time Bomb Ted

17th Mar 2006, 02:30

Thanks for that Delta.

I've taken your advice and taken a Bex. Well I thought it was a Bex...

It was a white powder and came in a white piece of paper anyway.

Now all I have to do is get the Blue Elephants out of my garden before they tramp all over Mrs Ted's roses.

Hon, are you sure that was a Bex?.....

TBT

Time Bomb Ted

17th Mar 2006, 02:43

TBT,
How does this situation compare to the WA ASU lessons ?

Any org, whether EMS/Pol or Civillian, needs to be run by those with an intimate knowledge of SMS, FMS, the Act and Regs amongst others, in order to be able to provide a safe environment. In WA a couple of small holes in the armour spelled disaster.
ATSB found in the WA POL ASU a number of problems including:
Deficiencies with the Air Support Units procedures, training, and supervision of aviation operational areas such as fuel planning, fuel management, and night flying operations; and
Deficiencies associated with the Air Support Units safety management program, and limitations of the Police Service guidance and oversight of that program.

Now I have a feeling VICPOL aren't in the same boat, however a dysfunctional organisation just doesn't happen overnight. I have and do work for people who have little or no experience in what I do and it has caused massive harm not only to us but unfortunate bystanders as well. I wouldn't wish for that to happen here.

TBT

blade root

17th Mar 2006, 06:25

TBT,

The only similarity in the two are that they are both Police operations.

As you say what happened to the WA ASU could happen to any flying organisation but only when the powers that be, have no idea about aviation.

Delta Torque

17th Mar 2006, 22:57

Still stirring the pot Bell Ted? I think we have established that there has been no `backstabbing' here.....unless you include self immolation in your definitions of 'backstabbing'...

Back in your box! :)

P.S. (arss's).........I think that would be (arses')

PO dust devil

19th Mar 2006, 05:22

Greetings all,

Not much fellowship in this thread lately. So, I'll take one of those fancy spirit drinks. Time to grab one of those corner booths and turn down the greyhound telecast.

[QUOTE=Delta Torque]Still stirring the pot Bell Ted? I think we have established that there has been no `backstabbing' here.....unless you include self immolation in your definitions of 'backstabbing'...
QUOTE]

I'm not sure we have defintively established that......but, as you say it, it must be right. I will accept your statement with a reservation that is, you may not be the expert you reckon you are.

MORE GENERALLY - I can't see that if a person goes on extended leave, has not been involved in any questionable behaviour, what suddenly makes it possible to remove that person from a legally appointed position. Bearing in mind that they have held performing apparently satisfactorily (albeit controversially), for a very long time?

What has changed that makes the appintment any less legitimate than it was five or ten years ago. Has he lost his skills to fly or failed to satisfy a CASA requirement? Has he breeched security or Cops regulations? Could any person then be removed from their appointed position without some process of tribunal or investigation?

Maybe if it is a management skills issue, then the people who appointed that person and gave support to his appointent should also be given an incompetence discipline, DCM.

Are there ramifications for the rest of us, who may go on leave expecting our career to be waiting upon our return?

I thought the award of a DCM was a result of some precipitating event.

DD

Delta Torque

19th Mar 2006, 08:41

I understand your sense of outrage....but I think that this is a matter between the CP and his employer...and remember that a CP is only a CP at the pleasure of his employer... They can have anyone appointed, provided they meet CASA's requirements...

My point is, AB...don't blame the other guys for this current turn of events....they were just as surprised as you...

vpaw pilot

19th Mar 2006, 08:48

Thanks, DT....:ok:

rivnut

20th Mar 2006, 02:44

Hey PO,

Aparently my source tells me that the CP's departure did not just occur because he was on leave and they (Police) decided to remove him because they felt like it....the animosity between the CP and the higher hierarchy has been brewing for some years and came to a head late last year as a result of something the CP had done to seriously upset the higher hierarchy (I mean as far up as you can get).

At the end of the day I guess we are all just teeth in a big cog...may lose a tooth here and there but the cog keeps turning, albeit a little bumby until its fixed again. A CP is not a demi-God in an organisation, at the end of the day (and this happens) if the CP and the AOC can't work together and there is no inproprietry by anyone then usually the CP moves on and is replaced by another suitable or maybe even better qualified CP hired by the AOC (who after all is the Boss) and approved by CASA.

That's life!

PO dust devil

20th Mar 2006, 04:18

Yep,
Thanks Rivnut et al.
I can accept all that. Maybe best to back out graciously at this juncture in the interest of mutual fairness. Thanks for the "reasonableness" of your explanantions.
Cheers,
DD

yarpa

22nd Mar 2006, 21:25

Now back to the real rumours. Things going well at MB, looks like Lindsay may be out foxed by the guys down south. Seems the Inspector went for a drive to check things out. Sparkling new hangar at the back door of Aldi !! . All they need then is a Doughnut King.

CYHeli

23rd Mar 2006, 02:32

What is in the rumours that the AS350 is actually to be replaced with an EC135 and that all future jobs will all require twin time as opposed to previous requirements?

Critical Reynolds No

27th Mar 2006, 22:56

Wow, what is with all the trucks filing past the front door of Vicpol and dumping their load up the northern end? Preparing for the next installment of "Fields" or is it run off from the freeway fix-up/bypass?

rivnut

2nd Apr 2006, 07:13

Is there truth in the rumour that another pilot has resigned from the Air Wing? My usual contact is away so can one of you at PAW confirm this? Does this mean that PAW will be looking for more pilots soon?

As to the trucks rolling past the Air Wing...nothing to do with the Air Wing but rumour is that PAW is being squeezed out of their location and that Linfox (owners of EN) have offered new premises but at grossly more rent (double or so).

And as to the AS350 replacement...last I heard was that it was being replaced with a light twin...EC135 maybe as my mate in QR told me that senior pilot PAW and CHC reps went to QR to check over the EC135 and fly it around late last year!!