Non-gyro vectoring

[Empty Cruise]

Just out of interest...

...anybody practise / being taught to do this at all anymore? For those who've not heard of it before, it's timed turns based on rate one. In this way, you're not depending on making turns on your bouncing sby compass, but only have to roll in to & out of a rate 1-turn at the ATCOs instruction.

So - anybody?

[sandstorm inferno]

ATC and the pilot shall prior vectoring agree the rate of turn and the pilot shall commence/stop the instruction on the order "now".

Ex. "Turn left NOW"....."Stop turn NOW"

That what I learned some 15 years ago. Never tried in real life only a simulator

[the hunted one]

Up until 2 years ago I was working at Llanbedr, where almost every aircraft was vectored as non-compass non-gyro. They were UAV's. Of course, it's closed now sadly, so there's probably less reason to do it. I believe it is still taught as part of the emergencies and unusual circumstances syllabus in the Approach Control Surveillance rating.

Also used it a lot when I worked at Farnborough, where we dealt with Odiham helicopters who had no imagination, so every time they did a practice speechless, they also simulated a compass failure!

It's actually very easy to do, and you can be surprisingly accurate if you do it regularly. To give you an idea, the UAV's at Llanbedr were given no-compass no-gyro PAR's! That was fun!

[Dan Dare]

I stand to be corrected, but is the procedure not "no compas, no gyro" as in no direction information at all? I have done this (both as practice for me and the controller) and it works remarkable well. Flying with a working standby compas on the other hand should be well within the abilities of an average pilot.

[radar707]

There's a controller at ScACC who enjoys flying into PF doing no compass no gyro SRA's. Great fun watching the radar trainees tackle them.

[the hunted one]

There's a controller at ScACC who enjoys flying into PF doing no compass no gyro SRA's. Great fun watching the radar trainees tackle them.

And I bet I can guess who that is! He wouldn't be ex-Glasgow by any chance? :)

[aluminium persuader]

We're lucky(?) enough to do this day-in, day-out.

"Adopt the standard no-compass, no-gyro procedure. All turns rate one, starting & stopping on the executive word "NOW"."

"turn left....NOW"
"stop turn....NOW"

Also the speechless procedure.

What larks, Mr Pip! What larks!

:bored:

[10W]

There's a controller at ScACC who enjoys flying into PF doing no compass no gyro SRA's.

And if he gets really stuck, there's always his own personal Chinook escort aircraft - paid for by Bush and Blair :p

[Frunobulax]

Just few weeks ago an E145 had to make a non-gyro procedure at one of Polish airports.

Non-gyro is still being taught at the atc simulator training in Poland. Just in case ;)

[bigmanatc]

OMFJ uses it too for the flying school...... and Wils just loves it ! :ok:

[Talkdownman]

We do NCNG SRA's for TRUCE. Also include Tx failure, speechless, short pattern emergency SRAs including curved approaches, and combinations thereof. All on the 424. Plus we take turns in flying the target aircraft. It keeps us amused between movements........

[ILS 119.5]

try asking a pilot of a b737 to do a rate 1 turn

[Talkdownman]

What should I ask her to do then, assuming 180 KIAS or less?

[the hunted one]

What should I ask her to do then, assuming 180 KIAS or less?

Make a visual approach! :D

[tg743]

When I was training for my instrument rating (november 2005), and on later flights I / we have been practicing No Gyro ASR approaches a few times under the hood.
I've also heard that here in the US the controllers likes to be asked to provide such services, since they need to stay current.
We get on a separate freq. with a final app. controller.
tg743

[Empty Cruise]

And beats the sby compass every day :ok: Thank you very much, gentlemen - I shall sleep so much better tonight :D

Cheers!
Empty

[ILS 119.5]

I cannot be bothered to work out the mathematics regarding rate 1 turns, i explained it to a visiting controller on the flight deck once. it is up to you to find out by familiarisation. i shall check in the books next week when next at work, and if you have not found the solution i shall explain.

[Pierre Argh]

There used to be a hunter pilot at Yeoves (one Derek Mortar) who's standard form of recovery was the NCNG One-in-One... often with speechless thrown -in (just to test ATC out?)... Ahhh, the One-in-One; that's what you call controlling?

[the hunted one]

There used to be a hunter pilot at Yeoves (one Derek Mortar) who's standard form of recovery was the NCNG One-in-One... often with speechless thrown -in (just to test ATC out?)... Ahhh, the One-in-One; that's what you call controlling?

LOL! Yes, we had a Hunter at Llanbedr for a while.... :\

[Martin Barnes]

Its amazing how many ppl imc guys do not know or have never recevied training in the NCNG proceedures. remember these guys have to rely on one vac pump for their gyros. as ire/s we like to throw the proceedure at students during the ppl/ir renewal as an extra element if it applies to the ac they operate. its a shame this training is not a required element of the IR groundschool instead of all the toss in the present syllabus

[YourFriendlyATCO!]

Try doing it in an amazingly busy situation at Swanwick, when an aircraft has smoke in the cockpit and can only feel themselves turning.... that'll get your heart racing, belive me!!!!!!!!!!! Hope i never have to do that again!!!!!