Flying in Rain

[Cricket23]

Hi,

I've around 50hrs now but have never flown in rain, and I don't know what to expect.

The picture I have in my mind is that we've all driven down the motorway in 'VFR' and come across an unexpected rain shower which has effectively reduced viz to near zero.

I've got my QXC coming up an whilst I obviously wouldn't take off whilst it was chucking it down, the weather can change quite a lot over a few hours. So, my question is what's it like, and do you have any tips?

C23.

[slim_slag]

Yep, don't fly anything you cannot see through. Don't fly through anything under a nasty looking thunderstorm cloud. Don't fly through anything if you are in icing temps. Otherwise just go for it and ignore the noise :)

[Fuji Abound]

Ah rain!

Strangely the initial reaction is the noise it creates in the cockpit than the loss of viz - it is noisy - a combination of the thiness and material of the screen and the speed compared with a car.

Viz obviously degrades according to the amount of rain. Heavy rain is sufficient to require you to fly on instruments - not a place for the VFR pilot. Even more rain can be enough to eventually overwhelm the engine.

Heavy rain is associated with CB activity - dont go there unless you really know what you are doing.

Rain will also very quickly find out if you have any leaks in the canopy or doors.

Other than that it will give the airframe a good clean.

Oh and it is wet.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

The worst thing about rain for VFR flying is the associated lowered cloud base. It is very easy to go inadvertant IMC when flying in moderate to heavy rain.

SSD

[stiknruda]

I'd also avoid flying anything with a wooden prop through rain, go figure!

Stik

[FL050]

I wouldn't really worry about flying through rain. Only real things you have to worry about is freezing level and heavy rain, which you shouldn't be encountering heavy ran unless you like flying under Thunderstorms - and in that case if you do, you don't need to be flying anything.

I've flown through rain twice, although 1 was on an IFR flight plan but the rain wasn't near bad enough to restrict the visiblity I was in (I was in VMC at the time).

Main thing, just make sure its not freezing at your altitude if you hit rain. Although only being a PPL you shouldn't have to worry to much about it.

[Mike Cross]

Echo the "don't fly through it if you can't see through it" advice. Suffering as I do from back trouble (it has a large yellow streak down it) I wouldn't be flying in anything more than isolated showers. I have gone round in circles south of Compton Abbas waiting for a shower to go through. This started to make me dizzy but reversing the direction did the trick.;) The problem with widespread rain is that it's usually accompanied by a lowering cloudbase and there's no guarantee that it won't intensify to the point where you can't see through it.

Mike

[flugholm]

I love the placards in Scheibe SF25s:
"Flight in rain: Observe flight manual"

And the rest of the time?! :ugh:

[Whiskey Kilo Wanderer]

Along with the other Avoid It advice I’d echo Stik’s comment and would extend it to carbon fibre props (i.e. Warp Drive)
Heavy rain erodes the leading edge of the blades quite dramatically and very quickly. They now produce a nickel edged blade, which helps at least as far as prop damage is concerned!
Safe Flying
WKW

[shortstripper]

As Stik says ... rain and wooden props don't mix. I flew down to Compton a couple of years ago in the Veep. There was a massive rain cloud over the airfield so I stooged around for a while. Eventually due to low fuel, I had no choice but to head in. It was surprisingly dry crouched as low down and close to the winscreen as possible (the veep is open cockpit), but when I landed I could have cried seeing the state of the prop. It had to be rebuilt as the leading edge of the blades were completely buggered!

SS

[tmmorris]

I sometimes fly a Firefly (original one-piece canopy) which leaks in rain - you get rain down the back of your neck, of all places...

As for the heavy showers, that's why you learn diversion techniques on your PPL, isn't it (e.g. 45 deg left, time 5 minutes, 90 deg right, time 5 minutes, 45 deg left, confirm position...)

Tim

[FormationFlyer]

The worst thing about rain for VFR flying is the associated lowered cloud base. It is very easy to go inadvertant IMC when flying in moderate to heavy rain.
SSD

er...'inadvertant' i think not. That is one of the most overused and useless comments in aviation - peronally I wish it was considered 'taboo' as a term - its like 'hangar rash' a term used to cover up and make exceedingly poor airmanship sound like some kind of unavoidable happening.

The ONLY time inadvertant IMC may occur is at night. Simple as that.

At all other times the pilot flew his 100kt aeroplane into conditions that he shouldnt have - either too close, or pressed on into deteriorating wx.

If you flew through rain - you *MADE* a choice. It is therefore not inadvertant - particularly if you did not consider the possibility that the water might reduce visibilty to an unacceptable level - remember unless you are appropriatelky qualified you need 3km vis - and that means in rain too! Also I should point out that it is in-flight visibility (i.e. directly in front of you) NOT your ability to see the ground 3km away - the point of the VMC minima is to avoid collisions amongst other things...

But all other things being equal rain is not really a problem. However, be warned that some modern types (typically composite aircraft), and microlights (with dacron/ultralam cloth) do not take well to rain and rain may not only reduce performance but may well result in a significant loss of lift - Before flying any aircraft in such wx make yourself familiar with the POH.

Of course - dog-legging or diversion is always a good option.

If you flew me through a rain shower that lost us the required VMC minima on flight test I would automatically fail you. No argument - loss of VMC and the resultant accident statistics should let you know how important it is to maintain VMC unless appropriately qualified. So my advice is - dont go there.

Bearing that in mind, I also advocate - don't fly through something you can't see through - but also think about the type of cloud above - it can suddenly develop into torrential rain - again losing VMC minima - so be warned - its a dynamic environment out there!

Safe flying.

Oh BTW tmmorris - that very a/c put snow down my collar 12 months ago!!! brrrrrrr.

[shortstripper]

Well with that particular VP's range only being about 100 miles and most of it used up ... I guess I could have landed in a field as my only alternative. As it was, a short flight through rain didn't seem too bad an option, and other than the prop damage, was a bit of a non-event.

SS

[IO540]

If a plane leaks when flying through rain, it will also leak sitting on the ground parked outdoors where, statistically, it will see far more hours of rain than when airborne. After a while, it's going to stink like a cesspit. I know, I used to fly Tomahawks which would have 1/2" of water on the floor (and stank accordingly).

I'd get the door seals fixed.

If the door seals are that bad, chances are the filler cap seals haven't been looked at in years. I once drained about a litre of pure clean water out of a Tomahawk fuel tank; this is not condensation (not physically possible, by at least one order of magnitude), it's duff seals allowing rain to get in. Now, think how much more rain will get in at 100kt...

Naturally, all these were on a CAA Transport CofA.........

[Final 3 Greens]

The ONLY time inadvertant IMC may occur is at night. Simple as that.

I disagree. Anyone who flies at night and does not have a plan for penetrating clouds or areas of darkness with no visible horizon is a complete menace IMHO.

Undertaking night flying by visual reference is also a choice and there must be a valid contingency plan before making that choice.

If you flew me through a rain shower that lost us the required VMC minima on flight test I would automatically fail you.

Also I should point out that it is in-flight visibility (i.e. directly in front of you) NOT your ability to see the ground 3km away - the point of the VMC minima is to avoid collisions amongst other things...

So tell me, how do you definitively measure in flight viz directly in front - i.e. without any reference?

[Cricket23]

All good food for thought so far.
Indeed, if I saw rain ahead I would divert accordingly.
But taking the point from 'FormationFlyer' -".....but also think about the type of cloud above - it can suddenly develop into torrential rain - again losing VMC minima - so be warned - its a dynamic environment out there!"
So, in this event, when you are suddenly dumped on, what would you do? Do a 180 like you would if you flew into a cloud and couldn't see through it, or......?
C23

[IO540]

"Anyone who flies at night and does not have a plan for penetrating clouds or areas of darkness with no visible horizon is a complete menace IMHO."

Yet, a plain PPL with a NQ is allowed to fly at night...

Time to duck again!

(I think night flight should require an instrument qualification, but many would disagree)

[Final 3 Greens]

IO540

I got an NR years ago, before I understood such things.

73 hours TT and off I went with a shiny new PPL, no IMCR or IR and lots of confidence.

I'd think twice about it now.:eek:

[A and C]

The leaking aircraft in the post above is one best examples of your opinion about the UK GA fleet, the owner has invested next to no money in it for years and this shows from 100yds away.

I simply could not rent out an aircraft in that state and face my customers, in my opinion a little water in that aircraft is the the least of your problems . . . . and flying in rain is the only time that it will get a wash!

[D SQDRN 97th IOTC]

if vis deteriorates, you may wish to configure accordingly - turning your landing light on might alert other aircraft to your presence

if rain is also a bit sleety, and depending upon how your plane is aspirated, you may wish to apply carb heat

if you've been a bit higher up for while where it's properly cold, and you've descended but your plane's still cold soaked, then avoid the rain. If you can't avoid the rain, then watch for ice on the wings and learn where the demist controls are inside the cockpit

as for the windscreen wipers, you'll find the prop wash does a good job of keeping the screen clear

[S-Works]

As I fly most days backwards and forwards to work I tend to see lots of different weather from clear blue sky to snow. Rain is not a problem to fly through but it does play havoc with the prop. Snow gives poor viz but does not seem to have any marked effect on the prop.

The erosion on my metal prop due to flying through rain was very noticable. I had the last prop come back from overhaul and within a week of flying through rain most days the metal was already visible. It has a significant effect on the life of the prop. I now have a new prop and that has started to show signs of erosion. Even though I do my best to fly around rain some days it is just unavoidable. Yes I know I could just drive but that takes the fun out of it!!

[Tarq57]

The thing about rain is it can look worse from a distance than when you're actually in it. It's a bit like driving in rain...if the vis is such that you can't see,say, twice your easy turn radius, you should be turning around. keep an eye on the weather behind you, constantly monitor the visibility, configure the aeroplane accordingly, always have a good plan b, in short, use what you were taught in the bad wx low flying part of the training. (And yes, carb heat, and windscreen demist.)
'Tis better to grow accustomed to what this sort of thing is like in light rain first (or not too low a cloud base, or not too much turbulence), in an area you know, in a controlled circumstance, before you find yourself in it up to the neck.
Next time the weather is a bit manky, go and do a local, with an instructor if you lack confidence, get a feel for it.
It's actually not too bad unless you're caught out with no experience.

[Final 3 Greens]

Still waiting for Formation Flyer to tell us how he accurately measures 3km straight ahead without visual references from the ground......

After all, he won't hesitate to fail a stude for transgressing.

So, come on FF, out with it.............

[LowNSlow]

I once flew a Cub through light rain that I couldn't avoid. I ruined the lovely varnished finish that had taken me a week to apply, polish and balance....... Fortunately the prop had a brass leading edge which protected the wood. Rain has also ruined the paint on the steel prop on the Auster, it also showed me where all the leaks are. :hmm: Ah well it's a good excuse to get the prop off and check the pitch. :ooh:

As somebody commented the noise is more instantly appreciated than any great loss of viz (in light rain at least) even in a 70 mph Cub.

[wombat13]

Echo the "don't fly through it if you can't see through it" advice. Suffering as I do from back trouble (it has a large yellow streak down it) I wouldn't be flying in anything more than isolated showers.

Don't see how you can improve on this response. As I read somewhere on this / another forum, the dirt is full of people who had something to prove.

VFR? Don't set off into rain as possibility you will go IMC. Already airborne and find yourself heading for rain? Go around it or DON'T BE AFRAID TO DIVERT.

I went for a bimble in Ireland last year with friends and had a short but unacceptable case of press-on-itis. Rain? Rain? Don't talk to me about f#$king rain. Carb heater paid for itself that day. Forget about putting it to cold at 500 ft to assist with a go-around. Stayed on all the way to the ground.

The Wombat

PS, when I say rain I don't mean drizzle, which many of us live with every day of the bloody year.

[FormationFlyer]

The ONLY time inadvertant IMC may occur is at night. Simple as that.
I disagree. Anyone who flies at night and does not have a plan for penetrating clouds or areas of darkness with no visible horizon is a complete menace IMHO.
Undertaking night flying by visual reference is also a choice and there must be a valid contingency plan before making that choice.


er. 'inadvertant' meaing 'not intentionally flown into' i.e. you did not CHOOSE to fly directly INTO a cloud - in the same way that during the day I enter IMC purely through choice and choice alone. Thats different from 'having a plan' and 'contingency'. 'contingency' is what you do if you 'inadventantly' enter IMC at night...very different statement.

So I agree with you.

So tell me, how do you definitively measure in flight viz directly in front - i.e. without any reference?

You cannot 'definitively' measure in-flight visibility - its a question of whether or not you can see an aircraft coming the other way - if not - then the vis is not good enough.

Its a question of common sense - and not pushing licence privilges beyond their already reasonable limits. The question of rain + visibility almost has a parallel with the question over 'in sight of the surface'...a good dose of common sense helps.

[FormationFlyer]

All good food for thought so far.
Indeed, if I saw rain ahead I would divert accordingly.
But taking the point from 'FormationFlyer' -".....but also think about the type of cloud above - it can suddenly develop into torrential rain - again losing VMC minima - so be warned - its a dynamic environment out there!"
So, in this event, when you are suddenly dumped on, what would you do? Do a 180 like you would if you flew into a cloud and couldn't see through it, or......?
C23

'flew into a cloud and couldnt see through' :) Well I enjoyed it anyway.... :p

All JAR PPL pilots are taught this - but personally I believe the 'fatest' exist is the best option so either straight ahead or 180. However, I would point out that such conditions if being experienced for the first time are less than pleasant and would definately cause at least a minor increase in heart rate!!!

It can also be accompanied with signifcant windshear...so take care. Good kowledge of the met reports helps. I personally have been caught out a couple of times though - would be a liar if I said I hadnt....but there again I do have an IR so I have my 'contingency'. :)

[FormationFlyer]

Still waiting for Formation Flyer to tell us how he accurately measures 3km straight ahead without visual references from the ground......
After all, he won't hesitate to fail a stude for transgressing.
So, come on FF, out with it.............


Sorry, been flying an aircraft - not the computer!! ;)

I was intentionally a bit strong - whether the stude gets a stiff word, B'ing or fail depends on a lot of factors...but I do consider loss of VMC as a severe transgression..

However, lets face it - if one cannot make a rough call in terms of judgement about whether or not one has appropriate in-flight visibility to continue flight then one perhaps should not be flying - after all does one need air traffic to tell one that one cant see out the window? no...Next question will be how do you 'definitively' judge that you comply with >1000' from cloud >3000' and 1500m horiz separation - Are you seriously saying you cannot judge this?? To at least a reasonable degree?

As a point of fact I have found most pilots (& students by the end of their circuit sessions) can judge 800 or 1000' rather well *without* the aid of an altimeter....:cool:

im sure, as a pilot, you understand exactly what I am getting at, and are perhaps trying to get a rise or something... :E

we all get caught, we all make mistakes...but the points still stand...:ok:

[FormationFlyer]

"Anyone who flies at night and does not have a plan for penetrating clouds or areas of darkness with no visible horizon is a complete menace IMHO."
Yet, a plain PPL with a NQ is allowed to fly at night...
Time to duck again!
(I think night flight should require an instrument qualification, but many would disagree)

Quite. The french appear to agree - I can see why.

[FormationFlyer]

The leaking aircraft in the post above is one best examples of your opinion about the UK GA fleet, the owner has invested next to no money in it for years and this shows from 100yds away.
I simply could not rent out an aircraft in that state and face my customers, in my opinion a little water in that aircraft is the the least of your problems . . . . and flying in rain is the only time that it will get a wash!

Quite. Luckily its hangared. But you could perhaps guess the general opinions re: such an aircraft - let us say I will no longer fly it for aeros, and it now spends more time in the hangar now than it ever used to...one wonders how long such a situation can continue... :hmm:

[FormationFlyer]

as for the windscreen wipers, you'll find the prop wash does a good job of keeping the screen clear

All good stuff....but I found this amusing - true of many aircraft except the adorable C152 with its carefully designed 'rain-hugging' windscreen. :rolleyes:

[FormationFlyer]

As I fly most days backwards and forwards to work I tend to see lots of different weather from clear blue sky to snow. Rain is not a problem to fly through but it does play havoc with the prop. Snow gives poor viz but does not seem to have any marked effect on the prop.
The erosion on my metal prop due to flying through rain was very noticable. I had the last prop come back from overhaul and within a week of flying through rain most days the metal was already visible. It has a significant effect on the life of the prop. I now have a new prop and that has started to show signs of erosion. Even though I do my best to fly around rain some days it is just unavoidable. Yes I know I could just drive but that takes the fun out of it!!

Interesting - one thought here is to examine seaplane pilots and how they attempt to protect the prop in what is a high spray environment...and props on seaplanes suffer badly - water is rock hard and does untold damage - but there again you are throwing a piece of metal at a droplet at several hundered mph... :eek:

[FormationFlyer]

And apologies for making quite so many postings on this thread tonight!!!!

I love the placards in Scheibe SF25s:
"Flight in rain: Observe flight manual"
And the rest of the time?! :ugh:

hmm. and there was me thinking instruments would probably tell me more about what was happening than the FM!!! :p Or is it more of a suggestion based on a lack of instruments in said aircraft and therefore is suggesting how to fill your time until not in rain!!! :E

[shortstripper]

Personally,

I prefer to sing in the rain .................... Dum diddy dum, dum da dum dum dum (altogether now) "I'm singing ........ :oh: sorry! :D

SS