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stand37r
25th Jul 2001, 20:15
Just caught the tail end of a radio news item saying Air 2000 Captain had to ask passengers for a whip round to pay for fuel after diverting! Any info from a more reliable source?

pietenpohl
25th Jul 2001, 20:27
You might like to have a look at this: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2-2001253791,00.html

BOAC
25th Jul 2001, 21:13
Not an unknown event, particularly in that part of the world. If the refuellers do not accept the airline's credit you are down to Captain's Funds/credit cards/bankers drafts telexed via OPS/cash on board.

There are places in UK where certain cards cannot be used - it always used to be that INS would not accept Diners for fuel. Don't know now.

Not a nice situation to be in! Don't forget there were probably cash landing and handling fees too. And... to add to the nightmare, they could well ONLY take US dollars............

[ 25 July 2001: Message edited by: BOAC ]

[ 25 July 2001: Message edited by: BOAC ]

Code Blue
26th Jul 2001, 04:01
If my memory serves me aright (and it is a little fuzzy), There was a similar story with a less happy ending from the same A/D. I recall a ferry pilot who had to stay a night in Algeria and this left him with less cash to buy fuel for his flight the next day. They wouldn't take Visa and he set off with marginal fuel and ditched unsuccessfully near Jersey (?).

BIG E
26th Jul 2001, 05:43
It all sounds a bit sketchy,why would they first divert to an alternate that closes 2100z and then to an altn that is fogged out Should the altn fuel not be reflected by this?

Doodles
26th Jul 2001, 11:43
Why not have a fuel carnet on board just in case?

BOAC
26th Jul 2001, 11:52
Doodles - one flaw in your idea. You are assuming it will be accepted!

The Guvnor
26th Jul 2001, 11:56
Our captains always just used to carry great wads of US$100s ... often, our crews would even purchase return loads if we only had a one-way charter (mainly perishables, curios, etc). Strangely, we just about made more money out of that than we did flying! :D :D :D

swashplate
26th Jul 2001, 12:01
What's the betting that some tosser will sue for 'twaummaaa'?????? :D :D :D :D

BOEINGBOY1
26th Jul 2001, 12:12
my company operates daily to gibralta. the alternate airfield for political reasons cannot be spannish, and thus nearest other airfield is tangiers. (due to max landing weight restrictions on some a/c we cannot load sufficient fuel for fao.
we even have credit facilities, carry various fuel carnets and all captains have a virtually limitless credit card. on at least five of diverting there, all these have been denied. captains luckily also carry a supply of american express $usd and gbp travellers cheques. however even these have been frowned upon in the past. unless you are a planned operator into tng with credit facilities, it can be a nightmare.
ps guarantees of payment by fax from ops were also declined.

pjdj777
26th Jul 2001, 12:51
The real reason they wouldn't accept the credit card was because Danny was on board. They heard his Liverpudlian accent and decided they couldn't trust a credit card from anyone who was associated with him ;)

swashplate
26th Jul 2001, 12:55
Somethings just occured to me:

Why couldn't they land at the 'fogged out' airport anyway?

I thought the B757 could autoland with zero decision hieght and 75 meters runway visual range?

Was the weather too bad? :eek:

Or the diversion airfield not equipped for such landings? :eek:

Or do I have this all wrong??? :rolleyes:

Discuss.......

BillTheCoach
26th Jul 2001, 13:21
Now what was he doing diverting to somewhere foreign anyway. He should have :

1.) Declared that there was a problem with the a/c that required him to return to the UK

2.) Told the pax it was a MAN based a/c and had to return there

3.) We would have looked after the unhappy pax and he could have got Sainsbury loyalty card club points for his fuel and they all could have gone back the following day

There is nothing to beat 13 nights in resort with a complimentary divert and 'free stay' at a well known hotel in Manchester ! :eek:

Capt PPRuNe
26th Jul 2001, 18:54
According to an interview with Air 2000 MD Ken Smith yesterday, the a/c diverted to Tangiers due to destination and first two alternates being closed, two due to weather, and on arrival required to refuel in order to get to original destination when weather improved.

The 'Tangerines' would not accept any credit cards or travellers cheques and insisted on payment for fuel and services in cash. Air 2000 a/c all cary fuel carnets and all captains have company credit cards and a substantial 'float' in travellers cheques. In most normal countries this is more than enough to make arrangements where the company do not have standing accounts or handling agents but obviously in the third world North African location, without sanction from the heierarchy transactions will only be carried out with cash outside normal working hours.

The Air 2000 captain showed initiative by explaining the situation to the pax and suggested that if they could raise enough cash between them to pay for the fuel and services they could be on their way to their original destination where they would be reimbursed because the weather had now improved and the airport was once again open. Enough pax with cash on them stumped up the readies, the bill was paid and the a/c departed and delivered them all safely to their original destination, albeit a few hours behind schedule.

The outcome was uneventful, the pax were reimbursed and the newspapers had an amusing story they could twist to their hearts content. Overall it showed Air 2000 Captains to be resourceful and with the initiative to get their pax to their destination in the face of third world bureaucracy. As for the choice of alternates, we have 4 on our PLOGS in order of operational preference and are not limited to these. maybe Tangiers will be reconsidered in the light of this event.

No doubt the tabloids will put a spin on it with a description from Mrs Agnes Higginbottom, 58, from Clacton who described the whole incident as terrifying and she felt her life was about to end as the plane lurched from the air into the North African airport. We'll see. :rolleyes:

Now that we all know the Guvnors pilots :confused: carry actual wads of cash they might be a bit weary fo identifying themselves as employees for fear of being mugged. :rolleyes:

All Air 2000 a/c are certified and equiped for CATIIIb autolands but the destination airfield has to be equipped to CATIIIb standards too otherwise you are stuck with CATI minima or less if that is the level of investment in the airport concerned. :eek:

expedite_climb
27th Jul 2001, 14:49
swashplate,

As danny says, the ILS must be the correct category for autoland - at least CAT II reqd.

Unfortunately it is not such at Malaga. During VMC it is possible to autoland a 757 on a CAT 1 ils if you wish, but there are limits. For example the ILS GP angle must be between 2.5 deg and 3.1 deg, which at Malaga, is also too steep (3.2 or something I believe..)

tony draper
27th Jul 2001, 15:13
Why don't you just fill up and do a runner? ;)

sky9
27th Jul 2001, 17:45
Air 2000 are affectionately known as "Air 2 Bob". Possibly we could now call them "Air Lendusabob" or "Air Gizzusabob"
Any other thoughts? :D

What_does_this_button_do?
27th Jul 2001, 18:53
"No tickee, no laundry" :D