Vaso Airlines Nightmare

[petitfromage]

10 Jan 2006

Screaming be'jesus! Who are these monkeys? Has the EU banned them too?

Sorry if there is a thread one this 'event' already!

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=995911

[Barry Cuda]

Is it me or are those thrust reversers sticking out from the engines? i.e. Could this be a doctored photo?


(N.B. I am a humble radar atco and therefore ready for flak if incorrect!!!)

[ATC Watcher]

Ah ! what is a few tons of extra freight among friends ? Everything is so expensive in Russia.:rolleyes:

[angels]

There's a small thread on JB about this pic.

[rammel]

I don't know the photograher personally, but he seems to have a reputation for taking great photos. So I would doubt it is doctored.

[Skypilot]

If they really were reversers you'd have read about the accident by now!

[Scottie Dog]

Barra Cuda

Had to look at a few other photos to confirm the fact, and don't ask me the technical words, but the IL-86's thrust reversers are kind of hidden behind vents/shrouds.

Have seen a very similar photo taken of the same type departing some eastern airfield with an equally long t/o roll.

[DubTrub]

ATC: "Touch down just past the numbers, please"

[antilla]

Don't worry, folks.

Using the logic from "Close Encounter over London", it was thousands of feet away from the end of the runway, and it's all down to the fore-shortening effect of a long telephoto lens!! :)

[GlueBall]

There's another problem with this photo: The positions of the flaps suggest a landing configuration....

[brakedwell]

Perhaps they were trying to avoid a tail scrape!

[Doug the Head]

I´m a big fan of Sam Chui´s photo´s on airliner.net and I also doubt that this shot has been doctored.

[Doug the Head]

p.s. If you do a search on the registration you will find more pics of the same aircraft using a lot of runway on take off in BCN.

Could it be the limited TO performance of the Il 86, or the limited knowledge of Mass & Balance of the crews? :eek:

[Iolar]

So that's where the Emirates A340 crew are working now!:}

[BALIX]

Highly unlikely to be doctored - Sam Chui is highly respected and takes some superb photographs.
As for the IL86, have a look at this (http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=185292&size=M&sok=JURER%20%20%28ert%20%3D%20%27EN-86140%27%29%20%20BEQRE%20OL%20cubgb_vq%20QRFP&photo_nr=11&tbl=) and see the same aircraft taking off a few years ago. Seems like a load of flap selected...

[spanishflea]

Highly unlikely to be doctored - Sam Chui is highly respected and takes some superb photographs.

You obviously weren't aware of the doctored pics incident that saw him banned from uploading photos to a certain well known photo site for a short period then...

[Wycombe]

Have a look on airliners.net for other Phuket photos and there is a very similar one of an IL96 doing the same thing at the other end of the runway.

[Doug the Head]

Interesting take off techniques! :eek:
I wonder what it would look like if they lose one engine after V1... :ugh:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=312682&size=L&width=1200&height=820&sok=JURER%20%20%28nvepensg_trarevp%20%3D%20%27Vylhfuva%20Vy-96%27%29%20NAQ%20%28cynpr%20%3D%20%27Cuhxrg%20%28UXG%20%2F%2 0IGFC%29%27%29%20%20beqre%20ol%20cubgb_vq%20QRFP&photo_nr=4

p.s. BALIX, how did you manage to post that link written in text? There used to be a button for that, but I can´t find it anymore.

[Navy_Adversary]

The aircraft has 4 engines AND winglets, I don't know what they're messing about at:eek:

[banana head]

Funny how that photo (ll-96) just happened to be taken by the same photographer at the same airport as the LL-86 in the first post?:confused:
And how come he hasen't yet managed to photograph the initial climb out of any of these thrilling take-offs, which would have been equally interesting?:confused:
Me thinks Mr Chui likes playing with photoshop or somesuch, and has a fondness for doctoring photos which show in his own words a thrilling take-offas the a/c used the whole runwayknowing that neither the operators/ pilots of these russian a/c are lightly to appear either here or on airliners.net to set the record straight....
Of course there are plenty of 'experts' here to comment on how authentic these photos are, just as the DHL A300 'v' 777 mid-air shocker over london was recorded by an honest and genuine press photographer......:yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

[AlphaWhiskyRomeo]

I'd be pretty comfortable accepting the photos to be genuine.

The guy is highly regarded is aviation photography I believe.

[banana head]

Highly regarded AWR?

He was barred from uploading to a certain well know website for faking photos before!
:suspect:

[Avman]

Well, I believe he has quite an impressive selection of quite genuine photos. It would be very stupid of him to stain his reputation for excellent photography with doctored photos. I'm not aware he was banned from any site. I think you may be confusing him with someone else (I shan't mention names) who uploaded a number of highly suspect photos a couple of years back.

[sarah737]

Itis doctored, look at the gear, it is almost as wide as the runway.

[reynoldsno1]

No jet efflux distortion either.....

[Tu154HAJ]

Hi all,

I think this photo is not doctored at all... I don`t know Sam Chui personally but I think he dont need any fakes. He is well known in the scene of plane spotters. I saw a lot of IL86 take offs in my life. Its well known that the performance of the IL86 at hot weather conditions is very bad... The runway in HKT is 3000 meters and its very hot there at the moment... I saw several take offs at my home town HAJ in the past summers...
Air Kazakhstan had always trouble in the summer to reach FL 100 after take off...
This pic I took myself and if someone dont believe that its real, you are invited to visit me and watch the original slide :):
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/230525/L/

cheers Olaf

[Jerricho]

Having thought about this a little more I'm beginning to think along the lines of Bananahead, why hasn't the photographer got more photos, showing us a little further down the runway, and over the water.......hmmmmm.

[Tu154HAJ]

If you upload two photos of the same registration on the same day at airliners .net, one will be rejected usually as "bad double"...
We photographers dont like this also, but thats the rules of airliners:sad:...

[BALIX]

Well, there were two photos of the IL96 take off, within a few moments of each other but two nevertheless here they are (http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?id=321482,312682)
Plenty of jet eflux in those pictures. (There is also a bit in the IL86 photo if you look closely)
Perhaps we could hear a little more about his supposed doctoring of photos and ban from a certain site. I certainly am unaware of it and I've been admiring his photos on a-net for a couple of years now.
I'm not saying they aren't doctored, but I find it highly unlikely.

[JanetFlight]

Well...To be honest im not very familiar with Photo Techniques but one thing i could share with you for sure...I was one of the few Persons who watched with my very own Eyes this Situation in August 2003»»»:rolleyes:
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20030801-0
And i must confess you....for several following Days&Nights, that moving Scenario of an Old Tupolev using its wings like "cutting with a scythe" those Trees at the end of the RWY, already in the RESA....:uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh:, couldn't leave my Mind at All:hmm:

[mutt]

Did anyone consider that the takeoff performance used the clearway?? So the 35ft point will be reached beyond the end of the runway?

Look for some airliners photos of PIA B747 Classic aircraft coming out of Manchester!

Mutt

[GlueBall]

It had already been mentioned earlier that the flaps are not in a takeoff setting, furthermore, if you look carefully at the rear of all engines you will not see any airflow "swirl" that is commensurate with maximum takeoff thrust as would be dramatically apparent during rotation at full-power. The airplane obviously appears to be at idle thrust during a landing flare... :suspect:

[Iolar]

The complete sequence looks very convincing


http://samchuiphotos.com/Sydney/HKTVasoIL86rotate1.jpg
http://samchuiphotos.com/Sydney/HKTVasoIL86rotate2.jpg
http://samchuiphotos.com/Sydney/HKTVasoIL86rotate3.jpg
http://samchuiphotos.com/Sydney/HKTVasoIL86rotate4.jpg
http://samchuiphotos.com/Sydney/HKTVasoIL86rotate5.jpg
http://samchuiphotos.com/Sydney/HKTVasoIL86rotate6.jpg
http://samchuiphotos.com/Sydney/HKTVasoIL86rotate7.jpg

[Tu154HAJ]

Hi just get a mail by Sam Chui,
he also send me the links above...
He also wrote following:
The wind was 090/14kts, the reason they
select Rwy27 to takeoff is because of the sea in front instead of a hard to
clear terrain on Rwy09 end. The tower did ask the captain twice about
takeoff on Rwy 27 but the answer was affirmative and "we accept Rwy 27"
The flight is going to Karachi, a good 5-6 hours away. 300Pax
cheers Olaf

[BALIX]

Well, I'm sure that some of you are still unconvinced but those seven seperate JPGs suggest to me that the pictures are undoctored. If it turns out that they are, Sam is a bloody good counterfitter and wasted as an aviation photographer.

If the bit about the 14 knot tailwind is true, it is amazing that they are not still fishing the pax out of the drink...

[Rainboe]

The pictures are totally genuine. I can see jet efflux, the take-off flaps are set, the whole sequence looks genuine- what more do you people want? If the wind is indeed as stated, he may well have lifted off further back than people realise, but the angle of climb is less- ie he still only climbed at a reduced rate, but with a greater groundspeed due to the tailwind it resulted in a low angle of climb. Looks worse than it is, especially as a long telephoto was used, but still disturbing.

[GlueBall]

No civilian transport category jet cetificated anywhere in the world is certified to take off with more than 10kts tailwind. :ooh:

[BOAC]

Closing this one - you may continue the investigation on Jet Blast (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=208818). (They started first:) )

[Flaps45]

I think this has been discussed before, but does any one know if this is some kind of new secret technique or just overloaded TO's? What are the max tire rotation speeds for Il-86/96?
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0995911/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0321482/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0312682/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0996987/L/
Read the comments
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1004737/L/

[BOAC]

Just a week or two behind, there Flaps!:)