Night flying instrumentation requirements

[Flandan]

Keen to hear any thoughts on the following issue. The ADF's been removed from our club aircraft, due to it being constantly U/S. In addition to this, the NDB at our airport has been removed (they've had an ILS installed). Wonder where we now stand in terms of night flying. Given you can't fly under VFR at night, I assume one's aircraft has to comply with IFR instrumentation requirements. If that's the case, then an ADF is, by default, a requirement for night flying in controlled airspace.

So, the question is, can we fly our club aircraft at night, under IFR in controlled airspace (i.e. if we were doing circuits) without an ADF? Do the normal rules apply when your base airfield from which you are doing your night flying doesn't actually have an NDB?

I'd welcome any input on this as it's causing a bit of a headache for us. I don't think we can legally fly at night without the ADF, but if anyone has a different opinion and can point me in the right direction in terms of the law, I'd be grateful.

[High Wing Drifter]

Night is one of the worst times to use an ADF and the DoCs for NDBs are only valid during the day anyway (see the AIP(ENR)). I assume you mean Night IFR in VMC. IFR in its self does not bring with it instrument requirements in Class G, only the need to fly to a specific MSA (1000' clear within 5nm of track if mem serves me well). At night in CAS (specifically only Class D CTR) you will need to fly according to SVFR and the subsequent viz lmitations of 10km, so again no specific instrument requirements there either. You cannot fly at night in any other form of CAS without an Instrument Rating or IMCR (ommission noted)

[IO540]

"You cannot fly at night in any other form of CAS without an Instrument Rating."

I think this is a right mix-up. An IMC Rated pilot with a NQ can fly IFR day or night, in Class D-G, and many do and have been since the IMCR was invented. If you think otherwise, please supply the exact ANO references.

Interesting point about the ADF for Class D at night. Clearly a lot of people, including flying schools, don't worry about this and I suspect it is one of the many sleeping dogs which the CAA turns a blind eye to because the regs are such a mess in this area nobody can unravel them.

Loads of people fly planes that are completely illegal for any form of IFR, at night, and they are frequently used for flight training, with any SVFR nowhere near.

An NDB works fine at night. They are inaccurate late in the evening, early in the morning, anytime near a coast when flying on a track that is substantially away from being a right angle to the coast, anytime when there is significant terrain nearby that is similarly assymetric to your track. An NDB will be just about as accurate as a VOR (on the four cardinal points) when flying over open flat country or over water. But this is nothing to do with the legal issues.

[High Wing Drifter]

I think this is a right mix-up. An IMC Rated pilot with a NQ can fly IFR day or night, in Class D-G, and many do and have been since the IMCR was invented. If you think otherwise, please supply the exact ANO references.
OK, possibly my missunderstanding of the writer's question. I assumed the specific reference to an ADF for night ops inferred VMC at night within CAS, else the ADF would be required day or night. Hence the assumption that an IMC rating was not in the mix. Hence my opening caveat :ok:

[Fuji Abound]

IO540

You beat me to it. I had always assumed that to be the case as well (IMCR and night). Just had a quick look in the ANO and supps and couldnt find anything to the contrary.

Contra references anyone?

[IO540]

As for ADF in Class D when IFR, somebody should check Schedule 4 and 5 of the ANO. I don't have time right now but think there is a relevant difference involving Class A (which definitely does require it).

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20051970.htm#sch4

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20051970.htm#sch5

[Flandan]

Thanks for all that folks. Was indeed talking about VMC at night, with no IMC rating. Had forgotten also about SVFR, but the issue of ADF in Class D is clearly a grey one. Can't, on a quick glance through, find any distinction in the ANO between Class A and D in terms of ADFs. Would seem to me that, technically, it is a requirement for Class D.

So, would take it that we could fly under SVFR within the circuit, and not require an ADF (as, under SVFR you're not technically IFR) and then, once into the open airspace around our airport, you'd be IFR in terms of MSA etc, but not subject to the controlled airspace IFR instrumentation rules.

No wonder nearly everyone I know who has a night qualification is scared to use it, lest they break some unknown rule!

[Keef]

I'd be leery of using an ADF at night. It's a low-frequency device and suffers from "night effect" otherwise known as sky-wave, which comes at it from above rather than from the direction of the NDB. It might be OK very close in, but I'd prefer a VOR or (dare I say it) a GPS.

Near the coast, or in hilly terrain, there's no way I'd rely on an ADF for anything at night.

[FormationFlyer]

OK Here is the definitive...(from me - being a night instructor...)

At night non-IMC/IR pilots must fly in ACCORDANCE with IFR - not COMPLIANCE with. These are the terms used by the CAA. There is a difference - mainly that the instrumentation requirements for the aircraft for IFR flight are NOT required.

As per a previous post quite right Schedules 4 & 5 of the ANO.

The ANO does NOT require ANY form of radio navigation aids for ANY aicraft flying in VMC, either in class D airspace or otherwise. The real difference between day and night flying is the need for gyros - and in CAS (class D) there is NO difference to the requirements for flight in that CAS during the day.

---

WRT accordance with IFR - moreso for IR/IMC pilots - it is oft misunderstood that you can legally fly visual circuits & approaches under IFR - the problem comes for the ATCO with regard to maintaining minimum aircraft separation distances - but from a pilot's perspective its all more than possible provided VMC is maintained.

At night this means that below 3000' in sight of the surface clear of cloud you are not required to maintain min heights above obstacles - however 'in sight of surface' depends on how much is black and how much isnt - after all - you cant claim in sight of the surface unless you can actually see it...so over most of Wales/Scotland you would be foolhardy if not illegal to maintain an altitude below minimum IFR standards.

Hope this helps!