"Take the next exit left". confusing?

[floydie]

Hi all,

I would appreciate your opinion on this. Would it be possibly confusing when ATC tells you to take "the next left" because some people will understand that it means the first one and other people will understand the one after the first one? Is it depending on where you're from i.o.w, what youe native language is? Would it be clearer if the instruction would be:" Take the first (second, third) exit left (right)?

One more thing, is it correct to think that native English speakers sometimes don't realise that what's clear to them can be confusing for non native speakers?

Thanks for your input, I am just curious. You may read my own opinion between the lines:E

[chevvron]

If someone is landing and they haven't visited before, I add 'after landing vacate CONVENIENT right' (or left) to the landing clearance. I was taught not to say 'vacate next left/right because as controllers, we don't know what speed the aircraft needs to get down to to take a turnoff, and it's not unknown for a pilot to brake sharply after hearing this and burst a tyre.

[foxmoth]

Even more confusing can be the one I had not long ago. I was told "take the second exit right - I was just passing an exit which I obviously could not make, but were ATC including this as the first exit or not?

[Empty Cruise]

Just recently had to stop taxi twice - at 2 different airfirelds - because "directional" taxi instructions were used i.s.o. letter designators. So what GND/TWR might have thought would speed up operations actually forced us to stop, wait until we could get in on the RT and then ask for clarification.

Taxi instructions that do not include letter designators should be banned :mad: We can all agree on "C - D2 - K" - but may not agree on "straight ahead, then take the 2nd left...". So why not stick with the unambigous way of passing the instructions? :confused:

Empty

[westhawk]

Agree with all the good points made in the above posts. While rolling out on the runway, I would prefer not to hear specific instructions to turn off shorter than what had been planned for prior to landing. It is easy and safe to extend the rollout, but it introduces an increased potential for trouble to ask pilots to make an earlier turnoff while the aircraft is rolling at high speed. The time to ask for minimum time on the runway was well before touchdown. Sometimes, a prompt reply of "unable" from the pilot or crew may be called for. While most pilots are aware of the need to fit into traffic flow and do not wish to tie up the runway longer than necessary, risking or abusing the aircraft to comply with an untimely ATC instruction is clearly not appropriate. Even so, there are many incidents every year of aircraft running off taxiways at runway exits or hitting signage or lighting while attempting to rapidly clear a runway, particularly at night or during inclement weather/runway conditions. Instructions to exit at the next intersection should be treated as a "request" that will be complied with if consistent with safety and without placing undue demands on the aircraft or crew. It is a judgement call for the crew to make. We must not allow "pressure to please" to induce a mistake.

While receiving "progressive taxi instructions", "next left" or similar terminology may be in common use, but I still prefer "turn left at alfa, next intersection" or similar. While on the runway, "Exit left, next available" or "Next available left turn" or similar instruction seems least ambiguous to me. As has been pointed out, this is not the time to go "head down" to peruse the 10-9. I do find that memorizing the planned exit designation and the exits preceeding and following it is often helpful. At busy, multi-runway airports, Murphy's law dictates that your careful planning will guarantee a runway change at the last minute! Oh well, it was still a good exersize.

Best regards,

Westhawk

[GearDown&Locked]

Does "Exit Left/Right as soon as possible" sound too ambiguous? I'm sure all of the controllers have an idea of the need for an specific a/c to slow down in safety in order to make their taxi planning work fine, having seen thousands of landings every day. If they need an exact exit to be taken, they can always ask "Are you able to turn L/R on 'X' ?" prior to landing.

GD&L

[Tarq57]

All good points and suggestions raised above. Very good question, whose scope can extend beyond taxi phraseology, to all sorts of possible clearance ambiguities.
I'm somewhat fortunate in working at an airport with one runway, a parallel main taxiway, and 9 connecting stubs;no high speeds. Have thought about this a bit in the past and come up with "first possible left" (or right) or if no pressure, "any taxiway", and where it matters due to busy taxi situation, specifying the route in advance, using numbers/letters. Especially so when itinerants or non-english speakers visit.
Where it's going to be tight I ask the pilot to expedite clearing, but generally only when the aircraft is still at least 1nm final..give them a bit of time to set it up. I figure if I'm too busy to plan that far ahead and warn someone in advance of any unusual requirement, maybe I'm trying to play it a bit tight.
All that said, hopefully it will be fairly obvious to aircrew that in busy times minimum runway occupancy is important.
Definitely avoid the phrase "next".

[Green Lamp]

Be kind this is my first post.

I cleared an American P3 to land one day with instructions to "use first taxiway"

I forgot to tell them to travel to end of runway and make 180 turn.

There was a cloud of smoke and screeching tyres as she stopped the plane in 150 metres and exited the first taxiway.

Cost me much alcohol that evening in the Clubhouse.

Cheers

[chevvron]

Gear down & locked:
In the UK the phraseology would be 'vacate' not 'exit'.

Green lamp:

Maybe you should have said 'after landing expect backtrack' or something similar

[Genghis the Engineer]

"Exit on taxiway delta" is usually clear enough.

G

[chevvron]

Apart from it being non-standard as I said; the word 'vacate' is used instead of 'exit' in the UK.

[Genghis the Engineer]

"Vacate right onto taxiway delta" then, still beats "third right". Although "exit" is generally understood, even if it isn't in CAP413.

G

[Gonzo]

I train controllers not to use the word next, exactly for the reasons above. 'Vacate first (adding the word 'available' if the a/c is still going pretty fast) left/right' is spot on.


One more thing, is it correct to think that native English speakers sometimes don't realise that what's clear to them can be confusing for non native speakers?



Correct. In fact that is one of the hardest aspects of the job to teach/learn.


Taxi instructions that do not include letter designators should be banned :mad: We can all agree on "C - D2 - K" - but may not agree on "straight ahead, then take the 2nd left...". So why not stick with the unambigous way of passing the instructions?


Because at some large airports, the configuration of taxiways, sometimes combined with poor signage mean that a/c sometimes get confused.:ok:

Phraseology such as "Vacate right onto taxiway delta" only works if it's said when the a/c is a way out on final. If I say that to an a/c on the rollout, he will either say 'which one's that, then?' or just aim for the one he was going for anyway.