FAA to CAA Comm

[Heli_Sticktime]

Does anyone know what the actual story is here. Some people I ask say you can convert an FAA comm to a CAA comm by writing Airlaw and getting a validation that needs to be renewed yearly, others say no you can't. I have called CAA and guess what, I couldn't get a straight answer really. Some say you can only if the people you are going to fly for can justify to CAA that they need your particular skills (That would be a VERY rare occurance since we have some mighty fine aviators here in SA)

If you could convert what is the situation with various ratings on AC?

[organ donor]

Yes you can validate an FAA to CAA by writing airlaw and doing a flight test. The validation will be valid as long as your foreign medical is.
Sounds like you spoke to the wrong person at the CAA - call Claudia on 011 5451257, or look up the website - www.caa.co.za, on the homepage there is a section on validating a foreign licence, which will guide you through the process.

[Heli_Sticktime]

Thanks Organ Donor, do you know which ratings would be valid, my SA ones, the US ones or both, or will Claudia be able to tell me, I'll give her a call in the am anyway, thanks again

[B200Drvr]

Heli_sticktime,
You may fly anything that you are legally allowed to fly on your FAA license. You may only add a type rating, with a MTOW of greater than 12500 by first having it endorsed on your FAA certificate, so for fixed wing, you could not add a B1900 by doing a course in S.A. as the FAA do not accept(most) of our type ratings. However not sure of the flingwing FAR's
PM me if you need further info.

[Canyon Runner]

Guys,

I am in a similar boat (sure many ppl are). Wondering if you folks have any inputs on this one.

I have abt 1300 hours and 500 of which are multi-turbine. I have all FAA stuff and am wondering if I can get a job in SA on the validation or the conversion?

Plus, is it a better idea to validate, then fly a couple hundred more hours and then go to the USA aand get the ATP there and come back and THEN convert the whole thing.

I have posted another thread about the scene in SA and everyone's posts were not very encouraging. i.e I wonder what it takes to get on the Jetstreams that Airlink has?

Anyways, what do you guys think?

CR

[B Sousa]

I think B200drvr covered it. Air Law plus a flight check will validate your license. To be a bit more precise though its a flight check in every class/type you want validated. ie. Multi engine land, Single engine sea, rotorcraft/helicopter. it gets expensive. If you only need a certain rating just take the flight check for that one. Thats to say if your on vacation and want to fly a C 182, just get validated for Single engine land.
Employment is a whole different story.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

The employer will probably be looking at a SA CPL or ATP, rather than a validation, before he hires you, particularly the larger companies associated with SAA.

[Heli_Sticktime]

SRT

I was thinking more form a rotorwing perspective for a smaller company. For instance I fly an EC120 and at the moment pay a small fortune per hour to rent it. Company in question would allow me to fly it for them doing basic charter work if I had a "comm". So... if I do the FAA thang and validate it just on single engine land rotor(sorry if my facts are skiff there) would I be allowed to fly with a validated comm after writing SA airlaw and passing a flight test? And would that mean I could fly a ZS registered EC120?

And lastly I am correct in saying that a R44, JetRanger and EC120 are all in the same class

Thanks HS

[birdlady]

Take my advice. SA is a wonderfull place but as a foreigner your chances of work are slim to non existant. If your willing to take the risk then go for it but you could end up sitting with a lot of debt and no work. :{ :{ :{

[Heli_Sticktime]

BL

I am South African and in my opinion would prefer to have an FAA comm as I think it has a wider spectrum of use overseas. I also think that if CAA doesn't pull their finger out of their a:mad: e a comm from SA might not be recognised in a few years. The subjects are old, outdated and are generally a large waste of time, see the thread on CAA Rumour.

I would prefer to spend more time on the practical aspect of flying as in the FAA flight test, after all that is what the end goal is, to fly, not to be able to take a Turbine engine to pieces and re-assemble it, or tell ATC the approximate aplitude of the wavelength my my transmission..you know what I mean, if you have studied it, when last did you use it??:zzz:

As we all know, the CAA exams are more a test of your wit and command of the english language, as well as a bit of guess work:E

Just my 1.5 cents

[birdlady]

Heli,

Sa syllabus is definately outdated but its not the only system that is. JAA system seems to have the same problem. Interesting debate going on about this exact same thing in the proffessional pilots forum. :ok: :ok:

[B Sousa]

Bottom Line:If your a South African living in South Africa, get yourself an SA Comm. Anything else is only going to raise flags and cause problems.
Validation works good for those who visit SA or work a short term contract....

FAA License would be good if you were in the states and had the VISA that allowed work, other than that all it will afford you is the ability to fly N Reg Aircraft in Africa.. Consider this, they do have a Visa for Initial Pilot training in the states. Whether YOU would be considered a "new Pilot", I cant say. If you get your license before the VISA expires, it allows you to work for a few months. I dont have all the particulars, but I know of a few Helicopter types who have taken advantage of it.

[Beak]

Any person wishing to fly commercially in SA should be writing the full exams. If they are not prepared to do so then perhaps they should look elsewhere for work.

[B200Drvr]

Beak,
In my opinion any South African has the same right to work as you do, if he has a foreign license and the SACAA find it appropriate that he does airlaw and a flight test then why shouldnt you? Or are you just looking at FAA licenses? If you go to Australia with a SA CPL and the legal right to work, they will give you a full comm license if you write airlaw and procedures and do a flight test, Why should we be so different? I agree that people (pilots) who do not have the legal right to work in SA should not be able to get a work visa unless we do not have their field of expertise.

[Heli_Sticktime]

Beak

I have just bought the King and ASA courseware for the FAA Com and have been finding it far more up to date with current aviation than the CAA curriculum. If you do your FAA exams, survive the 3 hour oral and flight test, then come back SA, pass Airlaw, and pass the CAA flight test with a DE, what's the difference? Your flight skills are up to standard so why shouldn't you be able to do the job?

Who know's how long your SACAA com will be recognized in other countries, some university degrees from here are no longer valid outside SA. :bored:

[B Sousa]

Heli
Beyond both those courses, there are some weekender crash courses. Class on Fri/Sat/Sun and take the exam on Sun afternoon.
Works good, I had Freddie V come over and he did it. Then took his checkride in the company B206......He has his FAA Comm.
If you feel up to it after having hit the books, the written exam is free at any FAA office....Checkrides are negotiable, but can be done reasonably. If the check ride is with the FAA its also free. getting the Helicopter is the expense.

You are correct in that an FAA License with proper Validation can be used in SA. I just think your going to find a bit of hostility if you try and make it go past short term......

[napoleon]

HEY MAN GET YOUR EXAMS PASSED HERE IN RSA IF YOU CANT PASS THEN YOU SHOULDNT BE ALLOWED TO FLY ITS THAT SIMPLE. YOU HAVE THE WRONG ATTITUDE IF YOU WANT TO TAKE SHORT CUTS IN GETTING A LICENSE WHAT WILL YOU FLYING BE LIKE. AS FOR THE COMMENTS ABOUT THE RSA EXAMS BEING OUT DATED, WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO SAY, YOU HAVENT GOT A LICENSE AND HAVE NEVER FLOWN PROFESSIONALY SO YOU CANT SAY JACK SH:mad: T ABOUT THE EXAMS.

[Heli_Sticktime]

Ah Napoleon, your name lives up to your post....I have done the ground school and passed four of the SA exams already! So please do me a favour. I merely state that in my opinion the SA exams are very outdated and most of the content other than Airlaw and a tiny bit of Nav is NEVER used again. Read the entire thread before you post, don't just pick up on the tail end. If a person passes the flight test and has the required hours they are as good as YOU or anyone and will be allowed to fly according to SACAA. Personal attacks just show your imaturity....and typing in CAPS ALL THE TIME??

[napoleon]

CAP OR NOT TO CAP is not the question. You are trying to get something by short cutting the normal system...probably just like you modify the check list and whatever else you consider out dated and of no use to YOU. You are not seeing the big picture here. WRONG attitude dude

[Heli_Sticktime]

Napoleon
Since you are so full of wisdom, please explain in detail what the big picture is, I am really interested, no-one through the entire length of this thread has made that kind of statement so back it up...I am not being sarcastic here I would really like to know.

If you have the hours, passed the flight test, and the CAA has given you a validation I can't see the problem. Remember I am from this country, I am not taking a job away from another South African.

When I fly an aircraft I don't need to remember Why do pilots wear uniforms(actual question I got in Human Performace at CAA in Midrand - The correct answer ..to look important! I sh:mad: t you not, and I got it right by the way:ok:) I can get some more of those if you like, from various other subjects of which I have many old exam papers.

As for taking shortcuts....well I'm sure that's what the owners of Oceanlines first said to the Wright Brothers:cool:

[Grizzly Bare]

Sorry guy but napoleon is right.
Why are you asking advise on how to short circuit the system? Even if it is legal, it's not right. All other RSA licence holders have had to jump through the same hoops and pass the same "outdated, waste of time" exams system. You are now trying to sneak through without putting in the effort that everyone else has. Shame on you.
What other aspects of RSA aviation procedures are you going to ignore because they do it better in America? Hey they have blanket type ratings over there in the States, so why not just get in and fly anything in RSA too, after all what do the RSA CAA know about needing to do type rating courses for small machines.
Sorry guy, but to even be asking the question you have demonstrates far too cavalier an attitude towards authority be in command of any flying machine IMHO.

[B Sousa]

AS FOR THE COMMENTS ABOUT THE RSA EXAMS BEING OUT DATED, WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO SAY, YOU HAVENT GOT A LICENSE AND HAVE NEVER FLOWN PROFESSIONALY SO YOU CANT SAY JACK SH T ABOUT THE EXAMS.

Nappy is certainly not a happy camper on this one. I agree if one lives in SA then he should have an SA License, be they stupid or expensvive.
Some have brought up that they are outdated. From what I have seen recently they are almost totaly useless in todays enviornment. Why on Gods green earth does a Helicopter Pilot have to know how to plot a course for a 747..... I certainly dont need to know how to build a radio, I buy the dam thing and if it goes out in flight I cant rebuild it anyway......
The testing Should be updated for sure. Probably simplified a bit.
Then again, if you want the license you have to take the test.......
FAA licensing is done by many and used all over Africa. Im pretty sure that many SA types are flying with them.
I do know Jack Sh1t, by the way, met him flying in the Cape.

[napoleon]

Howzit Grizzly good to see yah back. I see you still uphold the old standards. The next thing we will have erks asking if they can validate a license they bought in Kinshasa. Imagine flying with this guy who hasnt demonstrated the same capacity to gain knowlege as most of us have done. A lot of what we learn and do in training we never have to use "BUT" we still have to know it just incase something goes a tad awful. Quite frankly I wouldnt be happy having such a dodger with me.

[Heli_Sticktime]

You two are entitled to your opinions, just be aware that there are many people flying in this country with FAA licenses, even in the regional carrier from what I have seen on this forum. There are also a couple of hundred thousand people in the US flying bigger planes than probably both of you with FAA licenses. When they look at us they blanket us with the rest of Africa and probably have the same opinion of our com as YOU do of theirs. Personally I feel you are both biased towards the SA com for your own reasons, but making a personal attack against my character each time you post just shows immaturity

[Solid Rust Twotter]

There's dodging and there's dodging. A $100 CPL bought in the DRC is a far cry from a validated FAA certificate which lays the emphasis on more up to date information than the SACAA requirements as well as a more strenuous flight test.

Comparing apples with oranges isn't a valid argument.

[napoleon]

As a matter of fact both Grizzly and I hold FAA ATP's and Grizzly has many more ATP's from "Real" countries too. The FAA ATP is good for the USA where it is used correctly. As for pilots flying bigger aircraft than Grizzly and I, Im sure they do so. Perhaps they (the yanquis) think poorly of us here in Africa because they know of people like you who apear to be ducking and diving instead of knuckling down and getting the knowlege in their heads and passing the tough exams. BTW the FAA exams and flight test are no breeze either. I am a lot older than you and have got more experience. Remember that education (out of date exam sylabus etc) is never wasted. Try to become the the most knowlegable pilot you can possibly be. Try to fly by superior knowlege and not by superior skill.
If you then fly by superior knowlege you will most likely never have to call on your superior skill.
Most of all try to see the BIG picture and good luck.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Education is wasted on an out of date exam syllabus when questions are asked relating to a scrapped system that was dismantled two years previously and will never see service again.

I believe those questions have now been removed from the database but what was the point of retaining them so long?

[napoleon]

$100 for DRC ATP. dream on its $500 each 6 months plus $100 for a medical.
This youngster has the wrong attitude! with no experience he is telling us all he knows better.
I rest my case; but I still wish him luck as he might get his head staright one day.

[Heli_Sticktime]

Thanks SRT, I think you understand what I am trying to say

Napoleon I really don't think you can say that getting an FAA com as apposed to an SA com is a short cut merely because they focus on more up to date information. I have been through the entire SA com notes a number of times and there is nothing that is specific to SA other than a small bit of Airlaw, you must have forgotten half of what you learnt already.

You also assume that because I don't have a com rating yet I am some snot nosed kid, sorry to tell you that I am knocking on 40's door and the only purpose of me doing the com rating is to further my knowledge. When I do spend my hard earned money I would like to get the best deal I can, with the best information that is the most up to date. Therefore I feel that studying outdated material is a WASTE OF TIME! You make so many assumptions without any facts it worries me, when last did you do a CRM course?

There's a big difference between "tough" and "totally outdated". I have never implied that I know any better than you. We are all entitled to our opinions.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

USD500 for six months? Times have obviously changed since I was forced to get a Zairean validation to fly a ZS reg aircraft there....:hmm:

Although they did make their money by confiscating our passports each time we arrived in Lubumbashi and charging us to get them back.:ugh:

[napoleon]

Heli-sticktime. An opinion you do have; but its about something you havent got or proven your level on knowlege to get as yet as I understand it. Solid Rust: yes times have changed in jolly old Zaire still great fun though we even call it DRC now still the same place though.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

If you'd bother to read my previous posts you'd see that I'm fully aware of what it's called now. At the time it was called by another name hence the reference to the validation by the authorities under that name.

[Grizzly Bare]

My word, have any of you chappies actually got FAA licences?
The exam sylabus is one thing, the exam is totally another. Under the US Freedom of Information Act all FAA exam questions are on the public record. You don't actually have to study any knowledge at all, rather just buy the Gleim exam books and spend a weekend matching exam questions with the correct A,B or C answer. Studied this way the exam may as well be in Chinese - no aviation knowledge at all is required to get a very good pass, just pattern recognition skills for the written shape of the question and the answer.
There are no shortcuts to passing the RSA exams (unless you can bribe someone at the CAA :ooh: ). You have to study, and most people battle. Maybe the CAA uses it's difficulty as a way of weeding out the "wheat from the chaff", but as the licencing authority it's their perogative to decide on the criteria for licencing.

The FAA flight test is a flight test. You can either pass a IFR flight test or you can't. The standards are to all intents and purposes the same in the USA, Europe, South Africa, anywhere where the licence is gained through demonstrated ability, not on cash in the pocket. So your required flight skills level should be exactly the same for any flight test, again, unless you can bribe someone to take a shortcut!

So what are you getting from validating an FAA licence that you couldn't get from bribing someone at CAA to give you an exam pass? Hmmmmm slightly differnt question from your original post, but your end result is the same - working as a professional pilot without having had to perform to the same level as everyone else who holds a real RSA professional licence.

Why do you deserve the special attention of being given the right to fly professionally without having to perform to the same standards as everyone else in the industry?

[Heli_Sticktime]

Grizzly, what exactly are you smoking old boy, where do you come from with this comment?

So what are you getting from validating an FAA licence that you couldn't get from bribing someone at CAA to give you an exam pass? Hmmmmm slightly differnt question from your original post,

I have never ever in any of my posts even slightly touched on the absolute sh:mad: t you have just spoken, please dear God let me not be pax when you are in the left seat, can you even read a checklist, you can't seem to read a posting on a thread properly?

I have never asked for ANY special attention, I am comparing the two standards, and basically your stupidity is now boring me....if you want to comment, then READ THE POST!!:eek:

SRT I think these guys are probably at LOT less experienced than they seem to boast, judging by their "command"(or lack off) the English language:yuk:

[B Sousa]

As an FAA licensed Pilot who validates when in Africa, it fun to watch this fight. Sort of like two cats in a Pillowcase.
I get the feeling that those with SA licenses, just want someone else to "feel their pain" after having gone through all those hoops.
Life is all about money and the shortest route. It appears that more than I thought are running around Africa with "Validated FAA Licenses" So be it. If they are accepted, use them.
Not being "Summa Cum Laude " from Flight school, the motto I learned is that your wings dont have your exam numbers on them or as they say what do you call the last guy in his class at Medical School....? Doctor.
So what I learned here is that some have done things more easily and others still like to get the educational whipping.........Both share the skies just as safely..

[napoleon]

solid rust
If you'd bother to read my previous posts you'd see that I'm fully aware of what it's called now. At the time it was called by another name hence the reference to the validation by the authorities under that name.
Sorry about the DRC thing I was trying to be funny.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

No prob, boet. :ok: Got out the wrong side of bed yesterday and trying to get an answer from a bunch of duckers and divers on a job application I sent in isn't making things easier.:{

[napoleon]

HELI-STICKTIME Take note
As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.

[Heli_Sticktime]

Ok Napoleon, point taken, sometimes I suppose we have to agree to disagree on points. Granted you guys have more experience than me, but don't get the wrong idea of me. I have worked hard in life for what I have and all I want is that when I spend time, effort and money on something, I get the best I can. I don't take short cuts and I'm a cautious, meticulous pilot, hope to see you out there in the skies sometime:ok: