Aberdeen

[A.Viator]

Hi all,

I had the opportunity to re visit Aberdeen this week, the first time since the end of last summer. During the day stops I wait for my passengers in the Signature Flight Support FBO. Last year I spent much time in this FBO which also shares the building with the local club where I also made some great acquaintances. I found it to be a really friendly place in an otherwise chilly and sometimes weather foreboding part of the British Isles.

There was much discussion on this forum and at the club last year about the then pending takeover by new owners. I gather this happened but chatting to the few people that were in the club during my visit, things don’t seem to be working out. Local rumour control seems to suggest the operation may not continue beyond the end of June due to trading difficulties.

Does anybody have any information? It would be a great shame to see this very old and established club finish. Judging from the BAA’s stance on GA at other airfields, would this be the last of the flying clubs at Aberdeen?

[one-punch-mickey]

Ah, we must not mention the name of the owner/operator of this school

But i have heard rumours of some of the old members taking over control of the operation and restoring the place to it's previous form

Good luck to them, that place has had more owners in the last ten years than I've had cooked dinners.

[duir]

But rumours of some of the old members taking over control of the operation and restoring the place to it's previous form are indeed true.


Where are you getting your info from O-P-M????

[one-punch-mickey]

Oh, a fairly high profile reliable source, but then this is a rumour network is it not? ;)

[duir]

I don't know anyone with a high profile up here! If it's on PPRUNE it must be true. The plot thickens..........:ok:

[Capt Teflon]

The place is a ghost town most of the time with hardly any flying at all. It’s such a contrast from the good old days. Last winter was certainly much busier. This last 6 months or so just seems to have died. Most of the old faces have drifted away but its nice to see some of the ‘old’ instructors who have moved on in there careers occasionally come in. The atmosphere though has taken a real nose dive. Sometimes it’s more like a winter’s morning in the old Sumburgh crew room than a recreational flying establishment!

The locally based flying groups appear to do more flying than the school and there is certainly more activity at Whiterashes and Longside than ever before.

[Unusual Attitude]

Can agree with Capt Teflon, I fly in one of the groups based at Aberdeen and on a number of occasions have been the only light A/C in the air out of ABZ on perfectly good flyable days. Is a shame, with a bit of good marketing & management I've no doubt the club could do very well indeed. The HJS boys seem to be busy and are advertising all over the place for gift vouchers etc (papers, radio, TV, flyers etc), never seen that for the club though.

Just think how many people there are in this region with large amounts of disposable income! There's obviously a taste for aviation round here too and we have some fantastic scenery within easy reach. I'm forever being asked to do jolly flights / sightseeing trips for friends and colleagues, cant see why its not the same for the club?

Not surprised at the increase in movements at Longside etc however with the way the landing fees at ABZ have been going up recently!

[aged]

UA - is that a private group? The only prices I've seen for flying from Aberdeen have been very high, hence I do the long haul to Kinloss. I'd love something reasonable closer to home though.
Any pointers appreciated
aged

[Unusual Attitude]

Hi Aged,

Yes, there are 2 private C172 groups based at Aberdeen and there are usually shares avail in one of the groups. PM me if you want more details.
As for Kinloss I know that slog up and down very well as I used to instruct at the VGS there about - 7-8 years ago and also flew with Moray Flying club. Had to pack that in due to my job however as I had to be on call a lot at weekends hence the reason I bought the C172 share.

Regards

UA

[QantasEagle]

be very careful which one - some difficulties I hear!

[A.Viator]

I really enjoy my visits to Aberdeen but this week was horrible and astonishing! This week walk into signature aviation who handle our flights and right into the middle of what would appear to be a mass sacking of the flight school office staff who share the building. This is absolutely true. I walk in and the lady who has run the school office for years is in tears apparently having been suspended for financial irregularities in the till. Next day go in and the old boy I’ve seen working there for years and chatted to numerous times has also been also sacked; for gross misconduct!! Seems the place has gone mad. Does anybody know the full story as I won’t be back for a week or so?

:mad:

[rednine]

So then, what is happening in Aberdeen - we seem to have lost the thread? Is there any more news as to what is happening to the club or flying in general in Aberdeen?

[duir]

That's what is happening at Aberdeen! The school is delivering PPL training and there are several thriving flying groups.

I fly in one of the groups based at Aberdeen and on a number of occasions have been the only light A/C in the air out of ABZ on perfectly good flyable days. Is a shame, with a bit of good marketing & management I've no doubt the club could do very well indeed.
I am afraid this is not quite the full picture. The school has had a lot of down time for maintenence of aircraft throughout the winter and with no on site maintenence there is a 45 min flight to Perth to undertake every time something breaks. As mentioned lots of the instructors have left for airline jobs hence finding available instructors has been a problem. Put all that together with the horendous wintertime Aberdeen weather and you don't get many airborne days.

I walk in and the lady who has run the school office for years is in tears apparently having been suspended for financial irregularities in the till. Next day go in and the old boy I’ve seen working there for years and chatted to numerous times has also been also sacked for gross misconduct!!
It is wrong to publicly post that on here and I think tht all parties involved would appreciate some tact and descretion whilst the matter is resolved.

There are some serious odds stacked against GA in Aberdeen, not least the incredible costs enforced by BAA. This added to delays at the hold waiting to take off, delays whilst waiting to land, having to ask permition the day before for circuits and only being allowed one aircraft in the circuit, then being charged £16 every time you land (yes even for touch and go's) makes life difficult. That's why any new flying school at Aberdeen deserves a fair chance to get through any teething troubles.

Aberdeen has one of the closest knit flying communities I have come across and lots of people come to the school to socialise as well as fly. Hopefully this will lead to a very successful 2006 for everyone.

[egld0624]

Just come back from a winter-tour trip covering most of Scotland, Outer Hebrides, Shetlands & Isle of Man. I do not recall ever being so incensed to the point of warning other GA pilots of a particular airfield such as Aberdeen. The surrounding area is beautiful and well worth visiting/flying. I knew the costs were going to be steep but the reason for pressing on to Aberdeen was to visit an old friend. With some fuel (approx 50mins fuel burn from our previous stop) + all charges the bill came to £120+. (This makes circuits at Zurich Intl look ridiculously cheap + you are met each time with a "follow me" car/truck) but not at Aberdeen. The FBO's concept of service was in our opinion a joke. We did our own flight plans, notified the tower and weren't even given any guidance of the specific subtlies regarding ATC so invariably sat on the ground at a Holding point for 40+mins being bounced from one frequency to another and asked why our FBO hadn't explained the procedures to us (despite reading up on Pooleys etc). [And this before our departure to Sumbrugh]. For anyone doubting competency my flying friend is armed with an ATPL. The ATC handovers were uninterested in us and had to verify each step of the way if we were VFR or IFR despite a clearly transmitted flight plan at Aberdeen.
The same FBO operates at the other major Scottish airports and what a difference! Edinburgh although in the end not used due to a last minute weather diversion (ILS DH decision) went out of their way to help and accommodate us even before leaving for EDI. Glasgow was equally receptive. But at Aberdeen we were met with folks more concerned about telling us how they could only do one job according to their titles and were hence unable to conceptually do anything beyond the literal terms of their job descriptions and in my opinion can be summarised as: Multitasking & helpful, friendly service out; Politics in: A PR disaster.
Based on our opinions of the service received we wholly recommend Perth and just about anywhere else in Scotland for GA other than the above airfield. A bad day for Scottish GA.
EG

[one-punch-mickey]

In fairness the FBO is entirely seperate from the flying school, and some of the ATCO's have always been anti GA up there. My home is not Aberdeen although when I lived there I found the people to be extremely friendly (compared to Edinburgh etc). It would be nice to see the place return to the good old days, it's a wonderful part of the world to fly from.

P.S edited to be fairer to the pro ga atc'ers! ;)

[Ed Set]

One Punch Mickey-In fairness the FBO is entirely seperate from the flying school, and ATC have always been anti GA up there.
:eek:
I really have to put my oar in here. As an ATCO at Aberdeen, yes i would agree that there are one or two who are anti GA (as there are at most airfields!) but don't tar us all with the same brush. As someone who was instrumental in setting up the (in)famous Granite City Air Rally many years ago,(something incidentally that was started exclusively by ATCOs) I think you are well off the mark here.
:ugh: egld 0624-The location of the Club is a problem especially if we are on Runway 16 and yes you can be held but like all ATCers we DO try and move the traffic as best we can. I agree that a 40 minute wait is intolerable, but if that is a correct figure I would be in print now to NATS at Aberdeen asking why!!
The FBO at Aberdeen DO have a problem insofar as their previous boss want elsewhere and was never replaced. Consequently the guys there are often working in areas of which they have little or no knowledge and the FBO heirarchy seem to have no intention of actively assisting them to get out of the predicament. In addition,local BAA politics have also been a problem of late regarding FBO parking-something that hopefully has now been resolved.
Some of us DO take an active interest in GA at Aberdeen.We are there for you and WILL assist whenever we can. Just don't accuse us of being anti GA-it simply ain't true!!

[egld0624]

ED Set,

I hear you. I guess it may well be a case of the few spoiling it for the rest. I've taken your points on board and will discuss with my pilot friend your possible suggestion with NATS. On the positive side I wish you all the best and I do sincerely hope you and your pro-GA colleagues can sway those at Aberdeen to consider the grass roots of their industry with a more favourable stance. We're all in this together.

Good Luck

EG:ok: (An ATPL student)

[Ni Thomas]

And Ed Set - we sadly miss the wonderful Granite City Air Rally too - We'd come all the way up from Bournemouth just to attend the event (and witness the famous raffle!).
To disparage ALL the ATC whallahs at Aberdeen isn't fair nor just.
Aberdeen was always hindered because of long delays at the hold and the intransigence of [I]some of the ATCO's. The other ATCO's were very, very supportive, true GA hugging people who did all the legwork in organising the event - Geoff Greavey being the big mover - I just wish they could have been helped more by the airport authorities.

[Kinell01]

A.Viator

Yeah, there does seem to have been one or two changes at the Flying School in the last few months - known the place for a while and while there has been a significant dent in morale recently, the standard of instruction is still very high, however would say that the personal touch that the place was deservedly known for may have been dimished somewhat. As for the FBO, can only re-iterate the stance of Ed Set - on my visits I have never found them to be anything but professional and friendly. The case of ATC being unhelpful, I think, is fairly rare, usually only really occurs on 16 days with increased chopper traffic and even then most ATCO's will attempt to get aircraft crossed over to the western side of th airfield where it's easier to get airborne from. Would be a shame to see the school fold, even with all the complaints about charges/ATC etc, it's probably one of the best flight training environments going about!

[rednine]

As I have just said in another thread someone reported that the cost of one hours flying (and approx 5-6 circuits) was in excess of £200 - who can afford that?

[padded cell]

At £16 a landing that's not the Flying school's fault. That's the price that BAA are charging. Given the negotiations that have been held in the past about this - this is still a lot cheaper than the initial proposal was.

With no other licensed airfield close enough to commute in a lesson in order to do circuits (unless you do a bit of nav too and go to Inverness) of course that's going to put the cost of a flight up if you are concentrating on circuits.

[rednine]

PC, you are right in that it is not in the clubs control. However, it is the total cost for anyone learning that is important and if you look at the actual cost of lessons they are significantly higher then elsewhere aren't they?

[FORKINELL]

Just heard a rumour that a student has been banned from FAS in Aberdeen for seeking advice from Ppruner's about other schools in NE Scotland. I can't see that helping the situation when word gets round :ouch:

[rednine]

I have contacts in Aberdeen but haven't heard this - understand one of the flying groups also has many things to address and looking for several new members - so looks like a lot of issues in ABZ. Perhaps the writing is on the wall for GA then??

[bankjoh]

can confirm that a student has been banned

[QantasEagle]

for that reason? surely not? If this is the case then this needs to be raised with others surely? I have been at the other end of the world and I did hear rumours though!

[bankjoh]

QE - pm me

[youngskywalker]

I got banned too!

[QantasEagle]

So, YSW, what did you get baned for!!?? Asking questions???

[bankjoh]

well I got banned for an apparently "libellous" thread on here, did you sneeze in the incorrect fashion or did they just not like your face also?

[poshbulldog]

Apparently the saviour of FAS Aberdeen is one of the Operations staff from Cumbernauld. Currently on a Flight Instructor course before being dispatched up to Aberdeen. The manager at Cumbernauld has been heard bragging to members about how this guy is going to " clear out " and " sort out " the mess at Aberdeen. Now we hear of sackings and discplinary action we know exactly what this means.

[Unusual Attitude]

Redline, dont know where you heard that there were problems with one of the flying groups but can confirm that its not the one I'm in. Aircraft, funds and members all in great shape !

As for banning students for posting on Pprune thats just madness!!

[QantasEagle]

...................is that right??! This place has been in the hands of three different owners in the last three to four years, hasn't it? A runway built across the direction of the prevailing wind, the poor weather in the North east of Scotland and the high landing fees - now think about that and how conducive to flying is that? How many aircraft are in Aberdeen? There are excellent and weel established clubs and schools relatively nearby in Dundee, Perth and even Inverness (easy enough to travel to). All this really makes it very difficult for Aberdeen flying. I forgot, the premises and the aprons on which the aircraft are placed are owned by a different handling organisation aren't they?

[QantasEagle]

UA, rumours, rumours and rumours - and by the way, which group did you say you were in?

[youngskywalker]

The weather is really not that bad. The 16/34 runway direction can be bad for crosswinds, but often within limits. Aberdeen is still a wonderful place to fly despite it's problems. The airport is busier now and with ATC doing the best they can to fit the traffic in, training is more difficult than it once was, but with proper planning it can be achieved. The handling agent who own the property and the ramp, are very 'pro GA' and helpful to light aircraft pilots, surely it's better now that the cost of running the property has been split 3 ways instead of the school trying to pay all the rent on their own.
Remember back to when the Dundee operator owned the place, there was in excess of 200+ members, bookings were at least two weeks in advance with new students coming along all the time plus plenty PPL's hiring aircraft. Over the years with the passing of several owners both good and not so good, the place has been run down with moral at an all time low. Take a look at HJS helicopters at Peterculter, they are out the door with students paying over £200 per hour to fly an R22, the interest in GA up here is still strong. It needs dedicated people, enthusiasts with a real passion who are more interested in getting flying than trying to turn a profit, those people are still around. It will come around again, just wait and see.

(P.S just received a real classy private message full of personal insults and slander, I can't imagine who that's from!) :rolleyes:

[rednine]

YSW, I hope that yoy are right but my contacts in Aberdeen tell me that the situation gets more interesting and more interesting by the day - absolutely amazing what is happening: Perhaps moral and GA will rise again....................but how is that going to happen?:uhoh: