Ryanair cancel flights due to pilot shortage?

[LTNman]

No flights out of Luton this morning, around 30 cancellations out of Stansted up until 18:00. What is going on?

[Newforest]

Amazing, not a mention on flight information!:uhoh:

[DW11]

Should be an interesting day.

I know they're leasing in 2 or 3 aircraft until the end of March, but that still wouldn't cover this. PIK also seems to be affected.

[bacardi walla]

Remember FR blaming Boeing for flight cancellations due to late delivery of aircraft? Well I doubt it's that. More likely to be no flight deck crew available as they are all up on hours. It normally kicks in this time of year with FR but they have a culture of "cross the bridge when we get to it"......

FR cancelling annual leave won't help them either.......

[WHBM]

There are 21 Ryanair cancelled arrivals shown on the BAA Stansted website between 10.30 and 16.00 today. There are also several on other routes shown on the Dublin airport website. If this was BA it would be in the national news by now. Yet there is nothing on the FR website at all.

[Max Tow]

You're right - Stansted Airport site seems to show around a high proportion of today's FR flights as ominously "contact your airline." Unless these were scheduled, stones and glass houses come to mind after the recent Ryanair statements about BA/BAConnect punctuality. Hopefully the press will pick up.

[RAT 5]

It ain't rocket science so perhaps Leo H.C can help us out.

1. MOL orderrs shed loads of a/c. Well known, well inadvance.

2. X number of a/c require Y numbers of crews. Simple arithmatic that has been done by numerous airlines for years, and proven.

3. Y numbers of crews require Z number of trainers, LTC's TRI's & TRE's, & ZZ number of sims slots, both for initial training and LPC/OPC's.

Why then are the foundations not built first before putting the walls up? If you load up the roof without the cement to hold up the walls, guess what! This undercrewing problem has been a phenomenon in late winter for a few years.
Is it not said that 1 mistake is bad luck, 2 times is careless, 3 times is incompetent, 4 times is ......... fired?

And is there any truth in the rumour that the recent net increase in crews is zero or even -ve? If so, what is the longterm solution? And if it is true, then perhaps this counters the argument put out by RYR that they have the best rosters, best paid pilots and most content workforce in Europe. In other words, they have greenest grass. So where are these folks off to? Pray tell and the rest of us will follow from our own mud patch.

[Alan Partridge!]

Management have screwed up.....simple as! Typical short sightedness. If you were to see a base roster for the coming months you'd be amazed by the number of N/A days. This is a serious problem. Pilots leaving in bucket loads as well.....could be interesting!

[WHBM]

If Ryanair have scrubbed this large number of flights from their intended schedule then, regardles of the competence of BAA at Stansted in reflecting the situation on the arrivals board, Ryanair's revenues will take a hit. And thus their stock deserves to go down.

[The Real Slim Shady]

WHBM,
If Ryanair have scrubbed this large number of flights from their intended schedule then, regardles of the competence of BAA at Stansted in reflecting the situation on the arrivals board, Ryanair's revenues will take a hit. And thus their stock deserves to go down.
Ley me get this right; bmi change their schedules to operate their 330s from LHR instead of MAN. Commercial decision.
BA change their schedules by cancelling flights to Riyadh;commercial decision.
Ryanair change their schedule by cancelling flights; commercial decision.
Someone at BAA doesn't change the BAA site. Ryanair at fault and they deserve to have their stock go down.
What is commonly known as a non sequitur; or are you another Ryan hater?

[Alan Partridge!]

Maybe the idea of looking after their staff and understanding the meaning, and importance of staff retention will hit home with the numpties in the offices after these cancellations continue until April!!!

[The SSK]

More likely to be no flight deck crew available as they are all up on hours. It normally kicks in this time of year......Does this mean they have a Feb-Jan flight-time year? I always thought FTL were calendar year.

[Rocket Ron]

Just as a matter of interest are there Boeings sat doing nothing around the network, or is the whole fleet operating today?

Clearly if there are planes just sitting about then the excuse of "late deliveries" is bull*hit!

[FlyLowCost]

Just as a matter of interest are there Boeings sat doing nothing around the network, or is the whole fleet operating today?
Clearly if there are planes just sitting about then the excuse of "late deliveries" is bull*hit!

This morning 2 B738 were sleeping in BGY in spite to go to BVA and HHN. One was sleeping in CIA in spite to go to VBS. 1 was sleeping in CRL in spite to go to BGY. The other rotations (BGY-TRF, BGY-EIN; CIA-DUB and CRL-TSF, were regular). These was typical mid-january planned cancellation due to bad load.

[LTNman]

Just as a matter of interest are there Boeings sat doing nothing around the network, or is the whole fleet operating today?


Looks like Ryanair are flying some of their Luton based aircraft out of LTN this afternoon but there is at least one still locked up maybe two.

[CanAV8R]

OK. First off I hope nobody at Ryan Air suffers over these set backs. The fact is that they are out of crews. No aircraft? Ya right.........
A CLEAR MESSAGE TO ALL THOSE YOUNG PILOTS WITH STARS IN THEIR EYES. DO NOT PAY FOR YOUR TYPE RATING AND IT WILL BE PAYED FOR YOU BY MOL! I SAY AGAIN REFUSE TO PAY FOR YOUR RATING AND IT WILL BE FREE.
:ok:

[WHBM]

TRSS :

It's not a non sequitur at all to say that if you have deleted 21 arrivals in a 6-hour period of your schedule in recent weeks, your revenues are going to suffer, and this will be reflected in your stock price. I suspect you may be closer to Ryanair than I am, but I am in turn probably closer to the financial world than you are.

There are many of us here who are aware of just what capacity Ryanair were expecting to be delivered from Boeing recently, and what the shortfall is, and how this in no way accounts for such a reduction of planned service.

[FlyLowCost]

OK. First off I hope nobody at Ryan Air suffers over these set backs. The fact is that they are out of crews. No aircraft? Ya right.........
A CLEAR MESSAGE TO ALL THOSE YOUNG PILOTS WITH STARS IN THEIR EYES. DO NOT PAY FOR YOUR TYPE RATING AND IT WILL BE PAYED FOR YOU BY MOL! I SAY AGAIN REFUSE TO PAY FOR YOUR RATING AND IT WILL BE FREE.
:ok:

Good point:ok:
He cannot keep $$$ on the ground.... It's cheaper for him to pay your type rating....

[LTNman]

Here’s a newspaper headline if any Journalist is reading this thread.

Ryanair in pilot crisis, airline cancels dozens of flights

[OpenCirrus619]

Am I missing something?

From what I can see Ryanair cancelled a load of flights but are unhappy that this was reflected on the BAA information boards / site. They were cancelled, so the information is correct - I don't see that it matters if they notified BAA 20 mins or 20 days in advance.

If this was a "schedule change" and there was no intention to resume these services then I would agree BAA was at fault.

OC619

[Wing Commander Fowler]

WHBM - you don't appear to get it! The cancellations are due to lack of crews!!!! Of course the small reduction in aircraft delivered (if there ever was one) is not the cause of this. Indeed if we had MORE aircraft there would be MORE sat on the ramp! :ugh:

[Faire d'income]

Ley me get this right; bmi change their schedules to operate their 330s from LHR instead of MAN. Commercial decision.
BA change their schedules by cancelling flights to Riyadh;commercial decision.
Ryanair change their schedule by cancelling flights; commercial decision.

More FR hillarity. Let me get this right.
* bmi change flights from LHR to Man probable increase in revenue. Probably no decrease in schedule.
* Ba to Riyadh, dont know the details possibly security risk but only one route.
* 1000 flights in 3 months cancelled with more to likely to come. Suspicious looking excuse given. Aircraft seen sitting idle ( most unlike FR granted ) and it is the same thing?
The Real Shady Spin is more like it.

[DW11]

Am I missing something?

From what I can see Ryanair cancelled a load of flights but are unhappy that this was reflected on the BAA information boards / site. They were cancelled, so the information is correct - I don't see that it matters if they notified BAA 20 mins or 20 days in advance.

If this was a "schedule change" and there was no intention to resume these services then I would agree BAA was at fault.

OC619

They'd better have a word with Dublin as well as they're showing a PIK and a STN as cancelled.

[Aloue]

I think Ryanair are fully entitled to blame everybody in sight for adverse publicity, even if it is based on the facts of the situation!

It's whether or not we allow ourselves to be deflected by their spin that matters! Clever pre-emptive strike with the press release in December. Lots believe it. In reality it probably has more to do with having thin loads than the lack of current pilots (which is undoubtedly an issue). To my mind last in the list, at around 152, would come the Boeing strike.

Bad Aviation Authority for drawing attention to the scale of the Ryanair scam!!!

[Safety Guy]

Let's not forget that Ryanair's cancellations will affect the BAA's revenues as well. They gave Ryanair slots for those flights, and those slots are hard to fill when cancelled at a late date. Maybe BAA is keeping those cancellations to make a point?:hmm:

[bacardi walla]

If Boeing is to blame for cancellations due to late delivery of aircraft, why are there so many sitting idle today? Simple.......no crew to fly them.

[LTNman]

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds/afx/2006/01/18/afx2457115.html

LONDON (AFX) - Ryanair Holdings PLC has denied a rumour that its flights were subject to widespread cancellation this morning, saying its schedule of flights was operating normally, on time and with no cancellations.

In a statement, Ryanair said the false rumour emanated from one of the London investment banks shortly after 7.30 am.

'This rumour was untrue and could have been verified by that bank, had they made any attempt to contact the airline directly, or had they checked Ryanair's flight information page on www.ryanair.com, which confirmed that all Ryanair's early morning departures from London Luton and Stansted airport had departed as normal and on-time,' the Irish low-cost carrier said.

'Ryanair regrets that such a false and inaccurate rumour would emanate from a respected London investment bank without any attempt made to verify the facts either directly with the company or on Ryanair's website,' it added.

At 9.26 am, shares in Ryanair were 0.17 eur at 7.71.

-------------------------------------------------------

Interesting statement from Ryanair stating that all Ryanair morning departures had departed as normal from Luton seeing that their entire Luton fleet was on the ground until the afternoon.

Also worth noting is that the first post here came at 06:30 and that just after 07:30 a London investment bank had also reported the news. I wonder if they read pprune?

[vee-en-ee]

The latest from the STN departures board....
looks like Boeing are going to be sued for a large sum if "Please Contact Your Airline" means what I suspect it does!....
15:35 FR758 FRANKFURT HAHN AIRBORNE 1539
15:40 FR905 CORK BOARDING
15:55 AB8855 BERLIN TEGEL LAST CALL
16:00 FR436 HAMBURG LUBECK LAST CALL
16:05 FR703 KERRY LAST CALL
16:10 T34725 MANCHESTER LAST CALL
16:15 AB8747 DUSSELDORF BOARDING
16:15 FR1005 NIMES PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
16:20 AB8556 GLASGOW GATE OPEN
16:20 EZY239 EDINBURGH GATE OPEN
16:35 EZY3119 MALAGA GATE OPEN
16:35 FR3012 ROME CIAMPINO PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
16:45 AB8054 MANCHESTER
16:45 FR8363 SEVILLE
16:50 FR415 GLASGOW PIK PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
17:00 FR225 DUBLIN PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
17:00 FR9273 EINDHOVEN
17:10 FR2194 TAMPERE
17:10 FR2316 BRATISLAVA
17:15 EZY3035 BARCELONA
17:15 FR8398 JEREZ PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
17:20 EZY3775 BILBAO
17:20 FR1905 BARI
17:20 FR8351 ALMERIA
17:25 EZY3875 ALICANTE
17:40 FR8325 VALENCIA
17:45 FR105 SHANNON
17:45 FR3848 REUS PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
17:50 FR2436 KRAKOW
17:55 EZY241 EDINBURGH
17:55 EZY3195 LYON SATOLAS
17:55 FR2638 GRANADA
17:55 FR306 SALZBURG
18:00 EZY3567 COPENHAGEN
18:00 FR3014 ROME CIAMPINO PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
18:00 FR968 GOTHENBURG CITY
18:05 EZY517 NEWCASTLE
18:10 E0003 NEW YORK JFK
18:10 FR058 STOCKHOLM SKAVS PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
18:15 EZY3417 MUNICH
18:20 EZY217 GLASGOW
18:20 EZY257 BELFAST
18:25 EZY3627 PRAGUE
18:30 FR312 SALZBURG
18:30 GSM996 GLASGOW
18:35 FR227 DUBLIN
18:35 FR8347 PORTO
18:40 FR8546 BERLIN SCHONEFE
18:40 FR9808 GIRONA BARCELON
18:45 FR2466 SZCZECIN
18:45 FR464 TURIN PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
18:50 FR038 OSLO TORP PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
18:50 FR4198 MILAN BERGAMO
18:55 FR798 VENICE TREVISO
19:00 FR9774 KARLSRUHE BADEN
19:10 FR258 MALMO STURUP PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
19:15 T34727 MANCHESTER
19:20 FR3258 DUSSELDORF WEEZ PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
19:20 FR613 DERRY
19:40 EZY3891 AMSTERDAM
19:40 FR297 DUBLIN
19:40 FR714 AARHUS PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
19:40 FR907 CORK
19:40 FR9904 NEWQUAY
19:45 GSM980 EDINBURGH
19:45 JXX156 KEFLAVIK
19:50 FR438 HAMBURG LUBECK
20:00 DY1307 OSLO
20:00 FR764 FRANKFURT HAHN PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
20:10 4U2337 STUTTGART
20:10 FR293 DUBLIN PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
20:15 AB8449 BERLIN TEGEL
20:15 FR588 PISA
20:20 AB8527 LEIPZIG
20:20 FR1007 AMSTERDAM PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE

[jewitts]

Current situation according to BAA Stansted:

16:35 FR3012 ROME CIAMPINO PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
16:50 FR415 GLASGOW PIK PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
17:00 FR225 DUBLIN PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
17:15 FR8398 JEREZ PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
17:45 FR3848 REUS PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
18:00 FR3014 ROME CIAMPINO PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
18:10 FR058 STOCKHOLM SKAVS PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
18:45 FR464 TURIN PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
18:50 FR038 OSLO TORP PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
19:10 FR258 MALMO STURUP PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
19:20 FR3258 DUSSELDORF WEEZ PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
19:40 FR714 AARHUS PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
20:00 FR764 FRANKFURT HAHN PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
20:10 FR293 DUBLIN PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
20:20 FR1007 AMSTERDAM PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE


Seems like more than a 1% cancellation rate to me! (As stated in the December Ryanair press release!)
I suspect that even if they were cancelled some time ago, there are still a lot of passengers who will not book with Ryanair again.

[LTNman]

Under new EU compensation rules for cancelled flights this should cost the airline a fortune as I suspect these flights have been available for booking for months. Somehow I don’t think Ryanair will pay up.

[WHBM]

"Ah no, the flight's not cancelled sir. We've just decided not to operate it. But no, it's not cancelled. Oh no. And all the passengers booked on the flight which is not cancelled have been transferred to other flights".

Only in Ireland ...........

[FlyLowCost]

Under new EU compensation rules for cancelled flights this should cost the airline a fortune as I suspect these flights have been available for booking for months. Somehow I don’t think Ryanair will pay up.
The flights were cancelled over one month ago and all the pax got a notification by email. So they are under the new EU rules.

[chateau57]

Lots of Ryanair 737's sitting around Stansted today ........

[BEagle]

"......had they made any attempt to contact the airline directly...."

Something which many people have tried to do over the years. Remind me again of the Ryanair Customer Service telephone number?

[King Pong]

Crisis, what crisis! Everything is normal according to a Ryanair spokesman. No doubt BAA Stansted will remove these flights off their screens tomorrow so everything will appear to be normal. But at the end of the day Ryanair will have aircraft sitting around for the next couple of months doing nothing because they can’t recruit enough flight crews. For an airline that prides its self on keeping its costs to a minimum this is a disaster. So what’s this say about Ryanair’s terms and conditions?

[cwatters]

It looks like none of the flights mentioned above can be booked online for next wednesday (I tried three at random). So obviously these aren't new cancellations.

[The Real Slim Shady]

Cwatters

Don't tell WHBM, he won't like it!!

Is it uncommon for flights to be re-scheduled / cancelled or even consolidated by commercial for any number of reasons in advance of the planned operation? It appears if the company involved is Ryanair that any commercial change heralds some meltdown.

Why not vent your spleens supporting the BA crews who could see their pensions crumble if the shortfall isn't made up and leave FR alone.:confused:

[Pilot Pete]

Is it uncommon for flights to be re-scheduled / cancelled or even consolidated by commercial for any number of reasons in advance of the planned operation? It appears if the company involved is Ryanair that any commercial change heralds some meltdown.
Why not vent your spleens supporting the BA crews who could see their pensions crumble if the shortfall isn't made up and leave FR alone.:confused:
This is a Rumours network and if the reason for cancelled flights turns out to be lack of flightdeck crew, it will be of great interest to many pilots as it may mark the turning of the worm and a little leverage available to ALL UK flightcrew to negotiate their ever decreasing terms and conditions back upwards.

It will also be of great interest for Wanabees, who might be able to get a little relief from the 'pay for your type rating' that has riddled the job market since 9/11.

So I personally would like to hear as much information as possible regarding what is happening at Ryanair, especially how many aircraft are sitting on the ground each day due to lack of crews. Perhaps those in 'Spotters Corner' would be able to picture them at each airfield and give us a clue of how many fleet wide?

PP

Edited to add;

Do you really think that if BA had lots of aeroplanes sitting on the ground due to lack of crews that they wouldn't be getting a 'spleen venting' on here?

[Scottie Dog]

It looks like none of the flights mentioned above can be booked online for next wednesday (I tried three at random). So obviously these aren't new cancellations.

I feel that I have to comment on the various remarks made by fellow Ppruners. Whilst I have no time for MOL, I also sometimes think that we all go mad when given the opportunity to 'have a go at' Ryanair.

I havinglooked at the flights listed by jewitts in his posting at 16.04 and the comments by cwatters, I thought that I would check all the flights listed - here are my results if trying to book for next Wednesday 25th January:

16:35 FR3012 ROME CIAMPINO NOT LISTED
16:50 FR415 GLASGOW PIK NOT LISTED
17:00 FR225 DUBLIN NOT LISTED
17:15 FR8398 JEREZ BOOKABLE
17:45 FR3848 REUS BOOKABLE
18:00 FR3014 ROME CIAMPINO NOT LISTED
18:10 FR058 STOCKHOLM SKAVS BOOKABLE
18:45 FR464 TURIN BOOKABLE
18:50 FR038 OSLO TORP PLEASE CONTACT YOUR AIRLINE
19:10 FR258 MALMO STURUP NOT LISTED
19:20 FR3258 DUSSELDORF WEEZ BOOKABLE
19:40 FR714 AARHUS NOT LISTED
20:00 FR764 FRANKFURT HAHN NOT LISTED
20:10 FR293 DUBLIN NOT LISTED
20:20 FR1007 AMSTERDAM AIRPORT NOT SERVED!

As can be seen, there are a number of the flights which have been cancelled for more than 1 week, and the fact that Amsterdam is listed does give me serious food for thought that the BAA had loaded data from slot applications and failed to remove them before the event. This occurance has been known to happen at various airports around the UK.

Anyway that is my unbiased penny-worth which has left me taking statements from both sides with a pinch of salt.

[GLGNDB]

If it's known in advance the flights aren't going to operate then the slots can be cancelled with ACL. Once you cancel the slot or slot pair with ACL, they inform the airports and the flights are removed from the flight screen database. If a flight is active (usually a day or so before ) in the AOS system then the only option left is to show it as cancelled, otherwise AOS will plan stands etc for it. A good example of this is on bank holidays or at Christmas where you will see some airlines with a lot of cancellations on these particular days while others despite operating a reduced schedule don't have any showing as cancelled.

[Big Tudor]

Hmmm. One thinks FR should look closer to home before they start lashing out at BAA. Their season timetable shows they operate to XRY, REU & CIA every Wednesday evening. These flights are all showing as cancelled on the BAA Stansted website!

Cancellations due to commercial reasons are a pretty regular occurence in aviation, whether it's RyanAir, BA or whoever. However, cancellations on this scale, and apparently due to low loads, is pretty rare. It's a hell of an admission to say that you can't even get enough load factor on a large number of flights to make them viable to operate. Stansted alone is showing that 12 of this evenings 42 FR flights are cancelled.

[unwiseowl]

Maybe the flights have been cancelled due to poor loads, rather than lack of crews? Has anyone been rostered to operate any of these flights and then taken off them? Just a thought.

[unwiseowl]

Stansted alone is showing that 12 of this evenings 42 FR flights are cancelled.
So there should be loads of Ryanair crew at home with their feet up then?

[Big Tudor]

So there should be loads of Ryanair crew at home with their feet up then?
Nah, they'll all be in the counting house, counting out their money! ;)
(note: poor attempt at humour)

None of the reasons supplied so far stack up:

1 - Late delivery of aircraft - hardly makes sense when they have airframes sitting doing nothing at STN & LTN!

2 - Flight crew hours - IIRC FR pilot annual flying hours are calculated on a fixed year. Come the end of the year they are reset to zero. If the flights are cancelled becuase of this reason then that indicates very poor planning.

3 - Low loads - Doesn't say much for FRs much lauded sales department. Low loads on some flights are understandable, but not on the sort of scale that is apparent today.

[Faire d'income]

Point of information:

FR pilot annual flying hours are calculated on a fixed year. Come the end of the year they are reset to zero.

That is the FR interpretation of the 900 hour rule authorised (of course) by the IAA. There is no guarantee this arrangement will continue indefinitely.

[Rupert369]

I wonder if anyone else has seen the following news story on the Ryanair website and found it in anyway ironic...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

18.01.06
RYANAIR IS NO. 1 FOR ON-TIME PERFORMANCE
BRITISH AIRWAYS’ PUNCTUALITY “POOR” AND “UNACCEPTABLE” SAYS BA*


Ryanair, Europe’s No. 1 on-time airline, today (18th Jan) welcomed British Airways’ confession that its on-time performance is in the words of its CEO, “poor” and “unacceptable”.

“Ensuring that aircraft depart and arrive on time should be a fundamental concern for everyone, right up there with safety and security. It is something our customers expect BA to get right. Our current performance is unacceptable”, said Willie Walsh, CEO of British Airways.

Peter Sherrard, Ryanair’s Head of Communications said:

“British Airways can’t match Ryanair’s fares, no fuel surcharge guarantee or on-time performance and that is why Ryanair now carries more passengers each month than British Airways’ worldwide traffic.

“Civil Aviation Authority statistics for 2005 confirm the chronic delays at BA. However it is not just punctuality that is “poor” and “unacceptable”, it is their prices and fuel surcharges too”.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps Mr O Leary and Mr Sherrard should try and get their own airline in order before releasing drivel like this.

One last thing - I see that the cancelled flights are not included in the "flight information" section of ryanair.com - so presumably they'll still claim to have 1250% punctuality or some other unlikely figure for this month? :)

[UL975]

Fact: 2005-2006 10% of the pilots handed in their notice!

Looks like poor planning and poor terms & conditions have finally caught up with MOL.

[kms901]

I've had a flight on my regular commute cancelled about three weeks ahead. Being Ryanair, it has not been cancelled, but just disappeared. It was available to book last week but not there yesterday. Shortage of crew, shortage of aircraft or shortage of SLF. Surely the provincial airports who give them so many subsidies will be unhappy about the loss of trade for their bars/shops/carparks, etc.

[eticket]

Disclaimer 1: This is my first post so go easy on me!

Disclaimer 2: I am SLF!

In July last year I booked a December midweek daytrip on Ryanair. In October I received an email notifying me of a change in the schedule with the outgoing flight cancelled and a suggested replacement that was not suitable. Cancellation took 3 attempts via the Internet and one fax to Dublin before the money was returned.

Over the course of the next week I watched on the Internet their midweek schedules for the rest of December and noticed a number of other flights disappear both to this and to other destinations.

I was also due to go to a different destination two weekends ago and in November I recieved an email notification implying that the evening return flight had been cancelled. Ryanair's suggested alternative was also not acceptable ie return on the plane that you have just arrived on twenty five minutes earlier! So I cancelled the booking and the refund went through first time.

Someone else in my office has been looking forward to visiting their family and as they had booked the flights on Ryanair we have been joking about whether their flights would be cancelled as well. Yes you have guessed it yesterday one of them was! Yet another unhappy customer now having to make alternative arrangements.

It would now appear that my experience is not an isolated one and that rightly or wrongly I can no longer consider Ryanair as a viable airline option. If I have to be somewhere and Ryanair are now trigger happy at cancelling flights, (even with some weeks notice), I would rather not have the thought in the back of my mind 'will they cancel or won't they?'. This is especially so if I am booking for more than one person. I would rather book an alternative 'safer' option first than trust Ryanair and indeed I have now put this into practice.

From memory my cancellations both occurred about six weeks ahead of the departure date and so no compensation was payable as it was more than 30 days from departure.

In my opinion as SLF the real question that needs answering by Ryanair is not about the number of cancellations made on the day of departure but on how many flights that have been offered to the public upto and including the day of departure have since been cancelled. It is against that question that Ryanair needs to be judged both by myself and possibly by others as well.

Perhaps I have just been unlucky and these flights would have been cancelled under normal circumstances anyway but I have never had or heard of so many flights being cancelled by a supposedly 'proper' airline in such a short period before and so reluctantly and possibly sensibly I am now putting my money into the coffers of other airlines and thus into the pockets of their pilots/cabin crews etc. instead.

I am not angry or bitter towards Ryanair just disappointed that they are letting themselves, their passengers and their employees down and as my Granny used to politely say they 'really do need to pull their socks up'!

[the grim repa]

14 shiny new 737's closed up on stn ramp since early evening?boeing strike?

[22/04]

As an SLF this is all very difficult to understand. Did Ryanair never intend to operate these flights, i.e. (i) Icould never book them, (ii) did they cancel them more than 30 days ago (contractually OK) or (iii) did passengers expect to fly today. The answer to these questions is impotant.

If (i) obvioulsy OK

If (ii) undesirable but acceptable

If (iii) unacceptable.

[munkypuzel]

Wow. I am a very regular visitor to this website, but dont generally post, is it me or am i seeing lots of comments from usernames that I dont see on the R&N forum? ..with the absence of some i quite often see..

I wonder how many customers just sit and observe like myself..

[EGCC4284]

Apparently 5 flights out of Liverpool cancelled today ????

MOL, If your reading this, I have a licence even though only 400 hours,
if YOU want to pay for my type rating and pay me whilst I do it, then I may consider coming working for you.

Please can I be based at Liverpool

[Rupert369]

Excuse my ignorance, but does "SLF" in this context refer to "Self loading freight" or not?

MunkyPuzel - I, like you, tend to read but don't post that often. The amount I post is almost directly related to the amount of academic work I have at the moment - the more work I have, the more I procrastinate.

With regards to this topic, I travel very regularly with Ryanair and generally have no complaints about their service. However, I just wish that, for once, they could put their hands up and admit to having some blame in this situation, rather than pretending nothing is happening. That, I really would respect.

[armada]

"Our flights are not cancelled"


http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/imagebank/people_international/iraq-information-minister.jpg

[LTNman]

From the Independent:

Ryanair laid into ABN Amro after one of the investment bank's analysts sent the airline's shares lower by incorrectly warning that its schedules had been hit by widespread cancellations. Ryanair, whose shares fell 2.7 per cent at one point, said it regretted that such a "false and inaccurate rumour" had emanated from the bank. There were no inconvenienced passengers because Ryanair had withdrawn the flights a month ago when it knew a delivery of new aircraft would be late.
-------------------------

So there you are then, a truthful statement from Ryanair:mad:

[Rollingthunder]

So, what are the stories for today? They are, No they're not, Yes they are, are not, are too?

[BEagle]

armada - nice photo of the chief propagandist himself....

There's always someone / something else to blame.

[d71146]

"Our flights are not cancelled"
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/imagebank/people_international/iraq-information-minister.jpg
Thats a good un.

[Newforest]

So, what are the stories for today? They are, No they're not, Yes they are, are not, are too?

Why can't they own up and blame it on the computer or the 'yield management experts'?

[bacardi walla]

Because FR don't tell the truth.

A/C parked up does not mean late delivery of shiny new toys. It means no crew to fly them. It's high time FR told the truth and stop lying to the public, their crews, their suppliers etc.

I suspect the knock on of these cancellations will rumble on until the next set of cancelled flights. Mark my words, there will be a next set !!

[WHBM]

Ryanair laid into ABN Amro after one of the investment bank's analysts sent the airline's shares lower by incorrectly warning that its schedules had been hit by widespread cancellations.
If I was ABN Amro I would be instructing my lawyers. Should be interesting.

[wobble2plank]

Punctuality has to be taken in context!!

I'd love to see the impact on FR's figures if they had to battle their way out of LHR!!

The worst figures for BA are from there and most of that is down to support agencies who have 'agreements' dating back to the 70's!

The sooner BA sheds this load and moves to T5 the better and the figures will, hopefully, rise.

[Hand Solo]

Ryanair use the +15 minute point to define a punctual departure whereas BAs internal figures use +3 minutes. When BA use the +15 minute definition punctuality rockets up to nearly 80%, which is pretty good for an LHR based airline.

[ALLDAYDELI]

devils advocate here, re parked aircraft at STN. Are these all in the current fleet and serviceable, i.e. checked/ceritifed for use. new aircraft have to be prepped & certified for service. The fact they are parked doesnt always mean they are serviceable. Just a thought.

Sounds like BIG failure in resource planning to me.

[bacardi walla]

devils advocate here, re parked aircraft at STN. Are these all in the current fleet and serviceable, i.e. checked/ceritifed for use. new aircraft have to be prepped & certified for service. The fact they are parked doesnt always mean they are serviceable. Just a thought.
Sounds like BIG failure in resource planning to me.

Like I said before, no drivers !!

[sky9]

eticket provided some useful information and has hit the nail on the head (ABM Amro are you reading). It is becoming increasingly clear that like its employees, passengers are simply an inconvenience to be put up with on the way to making money. The key to Ryanair's profitability is subsidy from airports and the generation of income from Sale and Leaseback of aircraft (the accounts are "stumm" on the matter). When the yield on a particular flight is low, it is simply cancelled.
I suspect that the other concern coming up fast in the rear view mirrors is the “clever idea” of starting the 900hrs from April 1st. Unlike the rolling 900hrs. agreements common throughout the industry this one is going to start hitting in a big way all at once. Except of course the IAA will turn over and have its tummy tickled.

[jewitts]

Directly lifted from Ryanair's website:
20.12.05
RYANAIR DELAYS ADDITIONAL AIRCRAFT AT EAST MIDLANDS AND PISA BASES FOR A PERIOD OF TWO MONTHS DUE TO DELAY IN BOEING DELIVERIES
Ryanair, Europe’s No.1 low fares airline today announced a number of changes to its flying programme during January, February and March 2006 to accommodate the late delivery of new aircraft from Boeing, and Ryanair’s decision to retire the existing fleet of 737-200’s on schedule at the end of December. These cancellations will reduce Ryanair’s passenger traffic by approximately 100,000 passengers per month during January, February and March and will reduce the overall passenger traffic in the current fiscal year to just under 35 million passengers.
As a result of a strike in Boeing during September and October, all of Ryanair’s aircraft deliveries this Winter are being delivered approximately 1 month after their scheduled date. Ryanair has been able to meet this 4 aircraft shortfall during October, November and December by extending the flying programme on a number of older 737-200 series aircraft due for retirement. It is not possible to extend the use of these aircraft beyond the end of December 2005, as the aircraft have been sold and the pilots have been retrained on the 737-800’s. The airline has therefore decided to trim its schedule temporarily through January, February and March 2006. Planned capacity will return to normal with the delivery of the last 4 aircraft from Boeing during the month of April 2006.
These aircraft constraints will result in the following schedule changes during the first 3 months of 2006:
The cancellation of 200 rotations per month (approx. 1% the total flying programme) during January, February and March.
The delay of the launch of the second aircraft at the Nottingham East Midlands base from 7th March to 5th April.
The delay of the launch of the second aircraft at the Pisa base from 12th January to 4th April.
All passengers currently effected by these cancelled flights or the 2 month delay in new flights at the East Midlands and Pisa bases will be notified at least 3 weeks in advance of the original date of travel and will be offered either re-accommodation on an alternative Ryanair flight, re-accommodation on the new routes from East Midlands and Pisa when launched, or a full refund of their air fares.
Commenting on these cancellations during the first 3 months of next year, Ryanair’s Deputy Chief Executive, Michael Cawley said;
“We very much regret having to reduce our schedule to allow for the late delivery of new aircraft from Boeing and the planned retirement of our older 737-200’s in December. These aircraft have already been sold. We apologise sincerely to all our passengers who may be inconvenienced by these schedule changes, and we look forward to welcoming them on board the new flights from East Midlands and Pisa when the new aircraft are delivered and based there during April 2006.”
These schedule changes will not effect Ryanair’s profit guidance for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2006.”

So (if true) they might have both crew and aircraft standing idle at STN?

[foggydownhere]

It seems amazing that Ryanair don't adopt an easyjet style loan to encourage crews to join them. There will always be 200 hour guys willing to pay for a type rating but surely experienced crews should at least be encouraged to apply. I have numerous friends in Ryanair who have been consistently telling me for over a year and a half now that there was going to be a huge shortage of crews on the horizon. One such person last year had his annual leave requests turned down 8 times! It's no wonder they have such a turnover of pilots and thus a shortage of crews and whether they like it or not this has led to the cancellation of flights. Now don't get me wrong. I don't want to get involved in a Ryanair bashing. I actually admire the company for their success. I'm just surprised they couldn't or can't see the problems on their horizon. In my situation, I have an ATPL, what i would call good experience but not 737 rated. I along with plenty of experienced young guys would leave our current company in the morning to join them if they they had some incentive for us to do so i.e bond us. Until they change their policies I think this in going to be an ongoing issue for the forseeable future.

[the_hawk]

What I don't get - Boeing seems to have no problem with getting the blame here?

[PAXboy]

Boeing seems to have no problem with getting the blame here? Just a guess in the dark ... Boeing can take a little bad publicity like this as it will not dent them - they are big enough. Also, there was a strike (No?) and it is better for Boeing to take the PR hit than their customer. Also, Boeing might want to use it internally, "Look what you nasty people did to our shiny reputation and got us bad PR." (irrespective of that being the truth and this comment may have more to do with my cynicism of global business.)

[Faire d'income]

The 190 odd options on 737's might persuade them to take a little heat from their biggest customer of the last couple of years.
I think they will regret that deal.

[Few Cloudy]

And into the fire...

FC

[MarkD]

FR are wingleting some a/c at the moment too IIRC - how much downtime per a/c is that?

[devokeuk]

Check out Flight International jobs.

FR have placed adds for DE Captains and F/O s a couple of days ago. D/E Captains with medium Jet time will be bonded, however, as before, F/O 's still required to coff up the cash ! I can't believe that there are still experienced F/O's out there willing to shell out their hard earned money.

I personally feel that I have paid out enough money to earn my place in the right hand seat of a medium Jet and refuse to pay out any more. I will be lucky to have paid off current loans within the next 10 years as it is. Enough is enough folks, we gotta stop paying these guys and other outfits with the same kind of scandalous terms and conditions.

[sky9]

So Michael Cawley why don't you sub the flights out to another operator?

[DW11]

DLD was the latest 800 to arrive and is in service.

Will be interesting to see if there are still 738s sitting around while A320s are leased in over the next few months.

[befree]

Ryanair claim they had a forward contract to get the jet fuel at an oil price equililance of $49/barrel. As the oil price is rocketing maybe they are selling the fuel contact on at a profit and gronding some planes. The revenue cannot be that good this time of year and burning fuel on 99p fares is madness.

[Dockjock]

Suprised that flight cancellations aren't regarded by the market as a positive. After all, if you aren't charging for tickets your revenue side isn't affected....but your costs sure go down! :cool: :cool: :cool: :sad:

[Golf Charlie Charlie]

Suprised that flight cancellations aren't regarded by the market as a positive. After all, if you aren't charging for tickets your revenue side isn't affected....but your costs sure go down! :cool: :cool: :cool: :sad:

That's not really true. Yes, you save some fuel and other variable costs, but you still have the overwhelming weight of fixed costs to carry, revenue or no revenue, eg. insurance, finance/lease costs, wages, rents.......

[Dockjock]

Thank you GCC. Perhaps you need to increase the gain on your sarcasm detector?

[Packsonflight]

Everybody know that MOL is a pretty slick guy at the negotiatingtable. Maby he negotiated fat compensations in case of delivery dalays. It is more than likely that there are some delivery delays because of the strike with Boeing. Then MOL can make more money by letting his fleet sitting on the ground, and collect compensations from Boeing specially since he has no drivers.
The only thing he has to do, is to state that the cancelled flights where scheduled on the supposed-to-be-here aircrafts, and then collect the money from Boeing.

[Wing Commander Fowler]

Jeez! I sometimes think NASA lost one or two of their spacemen and they turned up here!

Packsonflight - do you REALLY think Boeing are THAT stupid???

There are NO DRIVERS - PERIOD!!! :{

[EI-CFC]

Just a guess in the dark ... Boeing can take a little bad publicity like this as it will not dent them - they are big enough.

In fairness, I think Ethiad are also in a bind due to late delivery of aircraft, so FR aren't alone in this respect.

[Matty J]

In fairness, I think Ethiad are also in a bind due to late delivery of aircraft, so FR aren't alone in this respect.

FR have plenty of A/C and have just tried to cover up their own errors. I work for them and at STN on Wednesday a large number of A/C were sat doing nothing for most of the day.

I've spoken to various FR captains and they've all said the same, the rostering has been screwed up again just like previous years and its put alot of pilots out of hours at the same time.

In the last month or so they have had a large number of A/C delivered from boeing, they just don't have the people to fly them.

Regards.

:ok:

[bacardi walla]

In fairness, I think Ethiad are also in a bind due to late delivery of aircraft, so FR aren't alone in this respect.

the difference with FR and Etihad is that the latter don't blame others for their own mistakes.

It's a classic old saying of what came first. The chicken or the egg, or in FR's case, the crew or the planes :E

[beernice]

Most guys at STN between 800-850 hours now. I have only one days flying rostered next week. But this may not be hurting Ryanair as much as you would think. Its the time of the year that the airline would look at cutting capacity anyway.

[I LUV DUFF]

Cutting back on the schedule is one thing but cancelling thousands of flights,come on!
New hires are only replacing people jumping ship.
Training Dept completely backed up.
A/C continue to be delivered.
Lots of pilots about to be out of hours for Feb and Mar thanks to their "amazing" FTL scheme which lets everyone run out of hours at the same time.
Expect lots more cancellations and plenty of wet leases over the coming months.
Looks like someone has bit off more than they can chew.

[fly-half]

Apparently there are around 30 pilots from Excel Airways flying for Ryanair during the winter as part of an ongoing agreement. I wonder what will happen when these pilots need to return to Excel in time for the summer season.

[FlyingIrishman]

The Excel pilots finish their contracts at the end of March, in time for the hours to be zeroed, so it's a case of deferring the problem for a while, and as always, the attitude of "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it".

[BEagle]

How on earth can 'hours be zeroed'? Isn't the limitation 900 hours in the previous 12 months? How can someone have 899 hours in the previous 12 months on 31 Mar, but 0 hourson 1 Apr - unless they didn't fly at all from the previous 1 Apr?

[jazzcat2000]

Our 900hr limit is not a rolling year like with the UK CAA, the Ryanair year runs from start of April to end of March. The 100hr limit still works on rolling 28 days.
I personally like this system, worked hard and logged 800hrs by Christmas and that left me with 100hrs for the next the three months.
Ryanair know they are short of crews every Feb / March but wet leases are in place and Exel crews fly for us until end of March when we all have 900hrs left again.

[BEagle]

Presumably JAR-OPS Section 1 Subpart Q will be revised under EASA to make it clear even to the IAA that 'the past 12 months' is indeed a rolling 12 month period?

It amazes me that the IAA haven't already spelled out to airlines under their regulation that the 12 month period is a rolling 12 months. How on earth can they possibly consider it to be otherwise?

[FS-chick]

Tha new QRH at Ryanair :}
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/1071/qrh1gz.jpg

[sky9]

OK so the situation is:
All the pilots are high on hours.
The aircraft are sitting around doing nothing.
Cancellations blamed on Boeing.

Seems like a logical arguement to me.
The reality is somebody had a "French Connection"

[Phil Hudson]

All the pilots are high on hours.
The aircraft are sitting around doing nothing.

Yeah, that's pretty much the situation today. :cool:

[Packsonflight]

In light of all this is it possible that MOL is actually collecting compensations from Boeing because of delivery delays?
It is a brilliant manuver, to let Boeing pay for your own mess!!!

[Flap 5]

What's all this about the IAA having different regulations to the UK CAA? They are part of JAR-OPS aren't they? :confused:

[sky9]

Flap 5

It isn't that the IAA have different regulations, it's that Ryanair convinced them that they were special and needed something slightly different. What has happened was predicted when the "fiddle" was first exposed on PPRuNe a couple of years ago.

[the grim repa]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2100-2001350,00.html

[BEagle]

"Ryanair has admitted that it is being forced to cancel flights due to insufficient passenger numbers and overworked pilots."

So was all the talk about Boeing delivery delays simply lies?

[Aloue]

Nope Beagle, while with Ryanair it can be a direct "misstatement" it is more frequently a manipulation of language in which a misleading impression is created. Go read their Press Release carefully .... Yes there were some delays in aircraft deliveries ... true, and it all hinges on manipulating that fact (and ignoring the real impact of the delivery delays). But they have now denied and confirmed the same claim over the a three day period. I especially liked this claimIn a statement, Ryanair said the false rumour emanated from one of the London investment banks shortly after 7.30 am.
'This rumour was untrue and could have been verified by that bank, had they made any attempt to contact the airline directly, or had they checked Ryanair's flight information page on www.ryanair.com, which confirmed that all Ryanair's early morning departures from London Luton and Stansted airport had departed as normal and on-time,' the Irish low-cost carrier said. Good example of what I said above. Note the claim that "all Ryanair's early morning departures from London Luton and Stansted airport had departed as normal and on-time" - which would be a true statement if you had in mind only to have those departures the day before, even if there was a cancellation rate of 50%! (And you get in the "on-time" bit, even if you don't mention that you are using a Ryanair definition of "on-time").

You gotta read and listen to everything they produce with infinite care.

[Pilot Pete]

At least BA's terms and conditions mean that you'll get on another flight...

It's got to be said, if you book Ryanair, or many other lo-cos, if they cancel, tough do-do. You see it again and again on the 'Airline' TV programme. If you book BA (or any of the other, don't know how to term this, 'more reputable'? airlines), they will get you there and not just say, "tough, go and get a hotel at your own expense and come back for the first flight tomorrow". But that's what you pay the extra for.....

The low cost model is fine until the wheels come off; be that the odd cancellation or 'big style' lack of crews or delayed orders or whatever. I have been of the opinion that the low cost model will reach it's natural level once the market has experienced the low-cost difficiencies as well as the advantages; there is still quite some expansion to go, but as long as the more established carriers can weather the onslaught until the saturated market occurs, they will then reap the reward if the lo-cos slip up and the customer grows weary of the difficiencies........

PP

[bacardi walla]

Looks like more cancellations today, at STN at least ! 9 a/c parked up in various places.

[Hussar 54]

Maybe it's been discussed before, but can't find anything on the search....
Lots of negative comments here on PPRune about Ryanair rostering and treatment of crew, so just wondering....ref the Excel crews working at Ryanair......do they have the same T&C's regarding rosters, scheduling, minimum rest periods, help with cleaning at turnrounds, etc ?
And especially the reported bullying and fear factor within Ryan regarding ' unfit to fly ' due to one-day sickness or long-term fatigue ?
And do they work only with other Excel crew or are the flights crewed one from Excel and one from Ryan ?
Any of the Excel people involved care to make a comparison what it's like at Ryanair compared to their own compamy ?
As I said, just wondering - might confirm one way or another whether Ryan are as good or as bad to work for as is so often discussed on these pages.

[beaver eager]

Haven't read the entire thread, but surely the low cost model doesn't work if aircraft are parked up all over the place?

Even BA have worked this out at LGW at last. It's made our working life a lot harder but at least the increased productivity over the last two summers (from both the aircraft and crews) has allowed the price to be cut and endured a bit of a fight back!

[GGV]

beaver eager I think it does work. You have to start with a cynical perspective on Ryanair to get the logic of what is going on. If you are not an experienced Ryanair watcher you might have something called an "open mind". In that case you have to go and do your research as to why those with experience of Ryanair are suspicious of every public utterance they make.

What is going on was stated somewhere earlier on this thread. The airline is solving several problems by these cancellations. By making them early - in December, as marked by their Press Release - they pin the blame on Boeing. The cancellations help solve a crew hours / lack of crew problem - by helping extend the productivity available from the remaining pilot hours (up to the max of 900) last as long as possible. This is important as "hire ins" are going to be even more important this year than ever before in the period Jan-Mar.

What flights are chosen? - well the ones with the lighest loads that are suitable for combination with other flights. While all of this is an inconvenience to pax, it makes very good economic sense - in other words, cancelling flights which only have pax with actual low fares, saving pilot hours for flights which have much better economic yields and, finally, cutting down on the cost of "hire ins".

If you can blame the BAA, Boeing, God, pilots, governments or whatever, so much the better - there is always an audience to help the PR maching keep the picture obscure and ignorant of the facts.

Once you get onto their wavelength they become a lot easier to "read". This is ALL about money (profit) and nothing to do with obligations to passengers, staff or whomever.

[beaver eager]

Thanks for that GGV, whilst I know more than just a bit about Ryanair's modus operandi, I hadn't quite realised some of the complexities you point out.

So yes, whilst normally an airline (especially a lo-co) would try to avoid having multi-million dollar aircraft sitting around doing nothing at all costs, it certainly maikes some sense to have them sitting around if actually operating them would make the losses even greater on certain flights. This works even better if your terms and conditions simply give the customers their money back in the event of a cancellation (especially if the fare was £0.99 or €0.99).

Having said that, even BA combine/cancel when the program has gone to rat**** for operational reasons such as weather/tech problems or yes, sometimes even lack of crews.

It sounds like a good business plan then, but as Pilot Pete says, there will come a time when the low cost market begins to level out. I know BA have made the headlines two summers running (and again this summer if they really want to nick my pension :ok: sorry for thread drift!), but at least they handle their run of the mill disruption with a kinder face.

[jazzcat2000]

Hussar 54
Just to clarify some of your points
We don't help with the cleaning during turnarounds, not enought time.
I have never felt pressurised to work when ill, called crewing and it has been accepted.
Our roster is very good. five on followed by three off. It means one can plan days off months in advance which is most unusual in our industry. I flew with an Excel F/O last week, he said he had been promised 5 on 5 off and was most impressed by the fact that he could just jumpseat home on Ryanair aircraft without booking in advance.
A lot of posters on the site don't work for Ryanair only quote their " mates " bad experiences. Regardless of what others say there is a big emphesis on safety and SOP's, the aircraft are well maintained and I have never been pressured to take one that did not conform to the MEL.
We do work hard but I still find it a lot less tiring than when I used to fly nights and now we have lots of standby days due high hours until April when it's back to normal again.
Depends what you want out of a job, we do get well payed but with NO benefits, we fly new aeroplanes to interesting destinations and get home every night. People leave for different reasons but I am quite happy to stay.

[Big Tudor]

jazzcat

What's the point of putting you on standby days if your hours are high? If you haven't got sufficient hours remaining to be rostered for flights then you can't be called from standby to operate either! Complete waste of duty hours.

[Wing Commander Fowler]

.........waste of duty hours? And exactly what do they cost the company??? If you have 20mins block available on your 900 hr limit then you are available to crew an aircraft which requires ferrying from Ltn to Stn. You are therefore of SOME use and will remain on Stby. THAT's how tight things are! :eek:

[jazzcat2000]

Big Tudor

I have 80 hrs left for the next two months and I am not bothered if they put me on standby every day and just call for the 12 or 14 days that I can actually work. It means I can get on with things at home and if the phone rings I just go flying ! People I known that have different occupations find it hard to believe that we get paid for doing absolutely nothing so many days of the year and would dearly like to have the same system. Of course we don't get duty pay but that has been received already during the busy months.

[atse]

I read the nice little booklet about Ryanair handed out by the Financial Times yesterday. Got me to thinking if there is anyone out there who can explain the gap between the Ryanair reality and what the investor community seem to think? - currently we have cancelled flights, enforced movement of cabin and cockpit crew from base to base to plug gaps, pilots up/close to annual hours maximum, many expensive "hire ins" (does Ryanair even operate any of its own aircraft from Liverpool any more?), demotion for fatigued pilots, serious incidents that appear to have been - at a minimum - under-investigated, administrative chaos (especially in training & planning), significant problems in granting pilot leave, endless I.R. problems in Dublin, massive under-management and buck passing by middle management, JAR Post Holders who don't know their responsibilities, an ever increasing number of Contract Pilots with little commitment to either Ryanair or SOPs, the ever dominating presence of MOL (he from whom all causes and effects flow), etc, etc, etc.

Now what would wake the investor community up to this nonsense? Looks like nothing. Presumably they will wait until something snaps and then scatter in confusion?

[sky9]

The City didn't know about Courtline, Air Europe or the black hole in ytravel until it was too late so why does it surprise you?
They should read PPRuNe more - some of them do ( I suspect they are asking questions on this thread).

[RogerIrrelevant69]

atse,

All sounds very chaotic but and this is a big but - do all of these factors combine to damage Ryanair's 2005 or 2006 performance or any of the quarters that make up those years? Maybe this quarter will suffer a dent but they will point out they warned of this back in December.

I'm not an investor but if I was they are probably the numbers I would be interested in. Long term, how long is a piece of string?

[batninth]

Atse

Now what would wake the investor community up to this nonsense? Looks like nothing. Presumably they will wait until something snaps and then scatter in confusion

Frankly the investor community do not care. I would suggest that the investors only work on the premise that they have GBP, Euro, USD etc on behalf of their funds, and they want to buy investments that grow those funds.

What they do want is return on investment, and frankly FR is good as it does exactly what is says on the tin with very few hidden problems. That FR doesn't pay passengers for cancelled flights is good (less contingency money flowing out), and the use contract staff is good (less commited long-term expenditure with quick changes to the cost base as required).

If MOL could make money by switching to dancing naked on the aprons at Dublin Airport (wearing his security badge & high-vis vest of course) then the investors would be fine as long as he told them first.

Remember these could well be the same fund managers who invested in the dot-com companies :ooh:

[Rollingthunder]

Frankly I don't get it.

Aircraft are sitting around not making money.

Boeing being blamed for late deliveries that would seemingly be sitting around not making money if delivered on-time.

Reckless over- expansion that is not sustainable?
Poor rostering?
Poor scheduling?

Not the working low cost business model?

[jewitts]

Frankly I don't get it.
Aircraft are sitting around not making money.
Boeing being blamed for late deliveries that would seemingly be sitting around not making money if delivered on-time.
Reckless over- expansion that is not sustainable?
Poor rostering?
Poor scheduling?
Not the working low cost business model?
This is what Ryanair claim:
As a result of a strike in Boeing during September and October, all of Ryanair’s aircraft deliveries this Winter are being delivered approximately 1 month after their scheduled date. Ryanair has been able to meet this 4 aircraft shortfall during October, November and December by extending the flying programme on a number of older 737-200 series aircraft due for retirement. It is not possible to extend the use of these aircraft beyond the end of December 2005, as the aircraft have been sold and the pilots have been retrained on the 737-800’s. The airline has therefore decided to trim its schedule temporarily through January, February and March 2006. Planned capacity will return to normal with the delivery of the last 4 aircraft from Boeing during the month of April 2006.
So presumably all the aircraft on the ground are (sold) 737-200's and there are pilots sitting at home, trained on 737-800's with no planes for them to fly. Any truth in this? I expect Boeing's and Ryanair lawyers know?

[CamelhAir]

So presumably all the aircraft on the ground are (sold) 737-200's and there are pilots sitting at home, trained on 737-800's with no planes for them to fly. Any truth in this? I expect Boeing's and Ryanair lawyers know?

Perhaps you had trouble reading the other posts on this thread :rolleyes:

[sky9]

Ryanair has been able to meet this 4 aircraft shortfall during October, November and December by extending the flying programme on a number of older 737-200 series aircraft due for retirement.

I hate to cast doubt on Ryanair's maths but 4 aircraft delayed one month is not 4 aircraft short for 4 months, it's 1 aircraft short for 4 months. Seems like the same maths that promises flight for 99p.

[Scottie Dog]

I hate to cast doubt on Ryanair's maths but 4 aircraft delayed one month is not 4 aircraft short for 4 months, it's 1 aircraft short for 4 months. Seems like the same maths that promises flight for 99p.

But how many aircraft are FR expecting to have delivered per month? You hav assumed it is one, but if it were 4, then the FR statement might be correct!

:hmm:

[doubledolphins]

So much for Ryanair's claim that they were sticking with a single type fleet. Made when easyJet ordered 'buses.

[Final 3 Greens]

Having a bit of trouble understanding the difference between fleet and sub fleet are we?

[snaga]

On the other hand, for Hungary the story released yesterday was still the same as it was for the rest of us in December - Ryanair's new flights suffer delay over Boeing strike
Monday, 23, January 2006 03:28:00 PM (Portfolio.hu)

Ryanair, Europe's No. 1 low fares airline, will not start flights in mid-February between London and Lake Balaton in Hungary, as a workers' strike has prevented U.S. airplane giant Boeing from delivering Ryanair its 737-800 aircraft on time.

Contrary to Ryanair's early December announcement, the flights will be launched only in April, according to Portfolio.hu's information.

[doubledolphins]

3 greens, no trouble at all. A single type fleet is one where all the pilots can fly all the aircraft. This is not the case with the 737-200 and later models. As is illustrated by this thread. Perhaps MOL had the problem. (Subs have squadrons any way.)

[LTNman]

The problem is they don't give any sources.

Lets just say that The Times newspaper was sent an email from someone at Luton informing them that despite Ryanair’s claims that all their morning departures had left on time last Tuesday the fact was that their entire Luton fleet was still on the ground into the afternoon.:E

The newspaper after checking the facts published the truth a few days later.

[harrogate]

Here’s a newspaper headline if any Journalist is reading this thread.
Ryanair in pilot crisis, airline cancels dozens of flights


We don't use commas in headlines :) and it's not a big enough story. It would be if it were BA.

A story of this nature would only be big enough if it followed another (or a series of other) higher profile stories on the airline, or other loco airlines.

[GGV]

Harrowgate I just picked up the following headline (from Bloomberg) that I might easily have used here:European Stocks Decline, Paced by HSBC, L'Oreal and Ryanair - commas and all. Rather than get into a senseless debate with you about the fact that generally speaking headlines do not contain commas (since I agree with you), can I just make the point that what was really at issue was the implication that what was cited was in some way misleading? You have, in effect, endorsed the counter claims being made here about flight cancellations (clearly not your intention).

This is the typical one-sided way in which one has to deal with Ryanair pronouncements. WE, that is everybody else have to have firm facts, be honest, not manipulate the facts, not manipulate the English language, be concerned about balance, etc, etc. Meanwhile Ryanair continue to do and say just what suits their purposes.

So let's get this latest diversionary debate out of the way, once and for all. There is abundant and overwhelmning evidence that flights are being cancelled by Ryanair. They have tried to hide and obscure the scale of these cancellations and, in particular, the reasons for the cancellations. That is a FACT. It is the scale of the cancellations that is open to debate. In fact, I suspect that it is an even wider phenomena that has been hinted at here. We will not learn the truth from Ryanair, unless a very well informed journalist knows enough to really get to work on them. In practice it is not worth the time to do that level of research on a "non-story", so that is unlikely - as Ryanair knows only too well.

What has changed is the way that Ryanair got away with these things in the past. The odd dissenting voice, here or elsewhere, would have been quickly pounced on and overwhelmned by those who would challenge, deny and ridicule the "anti-Ryanair claims" and - of course - always add that such people wanted to undermine the airline that was "dedicated to providing low fares for the ordinary man", not to mention "the best rosters, pay and conditions in the universe for pilots", etc. Quite.

The continuing change in Ryanair's fortunes are marked by the first investment house to make at least an effort to say something about the cancellations and the editorial in this week's Flight. Ryanair's denials, the attempt to denigrate the investment house claims and general media management techniques are no longer sufficient to hold back an increasing tide of scepticism about their claims. It is about time.