ZS-FUN off the runway - Kinshasa DRC

[gerhardv8]

Learjet reg: ZS-FUN (SOS Air Ambulance) landed Rwy 06, Kinshsasa (I am told last night????? not confrimed) and was severely damaged.
The aircraft was recovered from the edge of the runway about an hour ago to allow the heavy aircraft to make use of the full runway.

[Douglas Lee]

Crew very lucky,seems to have gone off the runway, and then back on again, broke left strut off, r/h gear also broke loose, a/c not to badly damaged. Hope crew are okay.

[I.R.PIRATE]

Wishing the boys (or girls) the best of luck. You guys are always doing an Awesome job out there, all days and most nights. :ok:

[ByAirMail]

Is crew inexperience catching up in aviation?

[4HolerPoler]

broke left strut off, r/h gear also broke loose, a/c not to badly damaged :} Not to(o) badly damaged - well sure - it still had a good looking nose wheel.

4HP

[I.R.PIRATE]

BYAIRMAIL.....really uncalled for, enlighten me as to why you say that. I know the crew involved very well, and your little statement....I just shake my head. Come right man.

Aquaplaning due to inexperience?? Yes its possible, however I have millions of incident reports for you to read which will teach you otherwise .Seems like you need some education.

PS: The crew are fine, just arrived back in SA courtesy of their DA20.

[maxrated]

"By Airmail" - you ignorant twit !!!

Dude where do you get off making a comment like that ????
Especially as you obviously have no clue as to who the crew are or who the operator is.

For your information, the operator is one of the finest part 138 operations you will find in the world and the crew concerned have a collective time on type in excess 0f 4000 hours, the captain is one of the most experienced Learjet commanders south of the equator.
I have never worked for this company myself but the dealings that I have had with them led me to beleive that they are definatly a very slick operation and that crew experience , or lack thereof , would definatly not be a factor.

Real glad that everyone is OK. :ok:

[SpootNICK]

By Airmail.........

I think you may want to remove your previous post.....as it is completely out of line. You are in no position to make such a comment, and I hope it was just a momentary lapse of judgement on your part.

So to avoid any further backlash - I strongly suggest you think about what you post before actually posting it.....as I am sure you dont want to be remember as a **** do you?

[SIC]

Gents I am very far away and it is difficult to get the news over here. Just curious and without naming names -are any of the crew involved the regular operators of ZS TOY? Used to work with those chaps and as said here before they're pretty much two of the most proffessional guys around.

[I.R.PIRATE]

So we say no more..for the time being, you want the story, just be patient,,!! No more childish comments will be tolerated....

[RSQ]

Come on Guys !
Pointing fingers with no hard and firm info??? Hope that never happens to you !
I understand my ex girlfriend may have been the PIC, and past relationships aside, she is one of the most professional pilots in the non scheduled business in Africa - bar none.(Gee that hurt ! - but its true!)

These things do happen on very wet runways, (having shredded a Citation's tyres AT FALA myself), and I am sure that at least two people on this forum will do the same thing during their careers.
The insinuation made that they landed becasue they were bingo fuel is also not justified, as Brazza was a stones throw away.

The reality of the situation is simply.....**** happens, and there but for the grace of God go I.........
These people are my opposition in the industry, but finger pointing without facts does everybody an injustice, and in my experience, the crew (captain anyway) are experienced aviators.
If the FACTS, at a later date show otherwise, lets rant then???

[Treetopflyer]

Exactly, ZS-FUN is not the first and will not be the last... We might be next!

ByAirmail... "Location: in the hold"? Well, with this kind of attitude, you may never be cleared out of it...:cool:

Good luck to the guys involved in this mishap.

[south coast]

who are you to tell people what to write pirate....?

just because you dont like or agree with the persons statement...

'No more childish comments will be tolerated....' who are you, the headmaster?

[I.R.PIRATE]

I am no one, just some one who hates hearing silly little comments from folks who think they know...there's a difference between not liking/agreeing and knowing the truth, and also knowing that certain comments are childish and irresponsible. Thats all...:ok:

[yogibear]

:} :} :}

Jees guys....Pitot tube covers at dawn or what ????

Come now guys we all grown ups here or so I would like to believe....:ouch:

As for 'airmails' comment well to be honest I have found more intelligence in the dirt under my shoe !!!!!:yuk: :yuk:

I really dig this site and all who post on it so lets not get to character bashing because of one stupid amoeba (dunno if spelt correctly)

:8 :8 :8 :8 :8

[spice]

Have worked with the Operators of ZS-FUN, a lovely little aerie and a great bunch of guys that own it! Hope FUN is going to be back to its normal self soon. Trust the crew are not too shaken up.

As for the comment on crew experience ...... I don't have to say anything further, I think it has been adequately covered - thanks guys.

[I.R.PIRATE]

Just heard along the RUMOUR VINE (I said Rumour). ZS-FUN = write off

[south coast]

so is anyone going to give any facts as to why this happened, or even just enlighten us a little more as to what actually happened...time of day of incident/accident, weather conditions...etc, etc.

and accidents do happen to experienced pilots, so why the excuse...i know these people and they are very expereinced...

[I.R.PIRATE]

What actually happened is the the aircraft aquaplaned on a very wet runway

[spice]

Hey I R PIRATE - thanks for the info (point noted it is a rumour only) .... will give the boys in Melville a call and find out the buzz!

[4granted]

Looking for contact info for opperator.

Got the photos....

anyone...
will post after...

4g

[I.R.PIRATE]

PM me with your request

[126,7]

just arrived back in SA courtesy of their DA20

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e201/frequencyjungle/DA20.jpg

Sorry, couldn't resist :E :E

[I.R.PIRATE]

Wiseasss:ok:

[RSQ]

Just spoke to the nursey,who is none the worsey - for being onboard (sorry, couldn't resist that!)

She was onboard, said they came out of the cloud at about 2,000 feet agl in rain (presumably on the approach). They could see four to five runway lengths ahead, touched down and slid, lost directional and went off the runway.

However, another nursey (not onboard) tried to cover up( I think), (she was expecting trouble?) by saying they hit something (the side of the runway?) on landing.

Really not such a big deal, and it WILL happen to some of us here.

So.......lets leave it to the CAA, (if they can find Kinshasa on a map, never mind get there) and the insurance assessor ?
Hmmmm.....I wonder if the CAA has a pecking order in the accident department (mind you the WHOLE CAA is an accident department?) which has Kobus vd Merwe doing the Kinshasa investigation while Ceepho does the Heathrow SAA flat spotted tyre???

Sorry ! Couldn't resist that either !

[SAMAJESTE]

i spoke with the capitano and she told me < i i i i don't know what what what happened ??,>

[rags]

Stop bashing crews.
Those of us with experience in aquaplaning will just say "BLOODY WELL DONE TO WALK AWAY" well done to a super crew (Got the Tshirt have flown with her) If it was not aquaplaning "BLOODY WELL DONE TO WALK AWAY"

Remember all pilots the next crash may be yours, it just depends on who is sitting on the shoulder (Angel or devil)

[4granted]

Here with some of the pics.
Last one is of the recovery.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/hawkerpirate/1.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/hawkerpirate/8.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/hawkerpirate/44.jpg
4g

[south coast]

Quote: Remember all pilots the next crash may be yours, it just depends on who is sitting on the shoulder (Angel or devil)

Worst load of rubbish I have ever heard!

I am not critisising any of the crew involved in this, but in my opinion, aqua-planing is a poor judgement decision.

1. The runway conditions would have been reported to the pilots and they should have been aware of the potential for aqua-planing and therefore ready for it and even considered going to Brassaville or some other airfield with better conditions.

Is aqua-planing just one of those conditions which happen and we just put down to, 'oh well, thats how it goes?'...dont think so, otherwise, why dont we hear of commercial airliners aqua-planing off runways on a daily basis?

If I recall, landing on flooded runways with potential of aqua-planing, one puts down firmly and refrains from heavy braking...

FZAA also has miles of runway, so no need for braking, one could let it roll out to a complete stop.

We have all made mistakes, sometimes it is just better to put our hands up and say...yes, I messed up, but we all walked away and I have learnt something, instead of this defending the person no matter what.

So, my final question is: Is aqua-planing, in your opinions, a phenominum we have no control over and one day will all sucome to it?

[MysticFlyer]

Exactly!
If we were all such good pilots as the first post-accident unofficial report always starts off with, no accidents would ever happen.

Off course we have all had little slips and some bigger and some of us did not survive the first, second or perhaps the 103rd! Once again, accident investigations should never focus to whom it occurred to, but that it occurred, in order to give recommendations for it not to happen again.

Recommendations exist for most eventualities and situations or how to aviod them. Granted, dodging them is the uneasy part....

Period.
south coast, dubble thumbs up!:ok: :ok:

[4granted]

What routing did FUN take to get to Kin?

We used to route via Ondangwa with the LR25. Just curious.


Later

4g

[beechbum]

4granted - can it not reach Kin direct? I heard the aircraft leave on the night in question and just thinking of the routing, it makes me wonder if anything is open at night for a refuelling stop? Have heard of 24's non stop Jhb - Kin direct and landing with fumes in the tank. I say no more.........
South Coast, sometimes in all fairness, the crew were probably not aware initially of the state of the runway at the time. After all it is 3rd rate ATC at Kinshasa at the best of times so the crew were probably unaware of runway condition.
Anyway it has happened and just an unfortunate experience for all..........:sad:

[south coast]

beechbum my boy...

i wish you were my boss...so understanding and forgiving when i cause you loss of earnings and cost you money with a pranged plane because, ' i was unaware'...

:) :) :)

[beechbum]

Firstly Southcoast I ain't your boy....and secondly have you ever operated into Kin? If you have then you'll realise that you receive no information from the ATC as to the state of the runway.Since the aircraft departed JHB in the evening it would no doubt have landed in Kin in the dark. Putting all of this together again I assume that the crew were unaware of how wet the runway in fact was. If you are a seasoned traveller to Kinshasa then correct me otherwise. But this ain't Europe and once you're north of SA you receive absolutely no info on the state and condition of runways/airports!!!!!!::{ :{
The Hydro 74 prang springs to mind...................!!!!!:eek:

[south coast]

i think the hydro incident was a ditch on the runway, which apparently they had notams onboard stating that but believed the tower when cleared to land. (different story altogether...believe the notam or one in the tower which you just critised for being of poor standard in that part of the world)

yes, i spent 3 years in the drc and know exactly what the state of the atc is, but correct me if i am wrong, do you land on a runway without knowing the conditions?

i think that is a pretty weak agruement and would be considered unprofessional to land at a runway in the dark, when everyone knows the type of weather typical in that part of the world without perhaps questioning the state of the runway...

yes, i know they might not play an atis, nor may they tell you the state, but would you ask for the state of the runway?

i remember when flying into FZAA, and before descent or on the descent, we would ask for the last/latest weather at the airfield.

perhaps you should re-read my initial posting and see that i said i was not critisising anyone, but where a mistake, bad decision, error in judgement has been made, and i believe from the facts available on this thread that at least one of the above was made then i question why there is this blinkered opinion that the crew were not to blame?

a question i posted on the questions forum:
is aqua-planing a phenominum that as pilots we accept we have no control over and therefore one day will all be caught out by it?

answer:
no. you prepare and act according
to the situation. select a flap setting close to your aquaplaning speed. fly the airplane on proper speed and path . aim for the touchdown zone and make a firm touchdown. if any or all cannot be met then go around and try again.

i am no expert, but just seems strange that so many defend the incident as 'just one of those things?'

[beechbum]

A common denominator darkest Africa ATC!!!!
Of course you always get the weather and so often how accurate is his assessment. Anyway we weren't there so how are we to judge!!!:hmm:
Southcoast you have some valid points but unfortunately this has happened and hopefully we can learn from those unfortunate few in this accident.:ok:

[south coast]

i agree...

i thought you were someone else and apologise for the friendly 'my boy' greeting.

none taken.:ok:

[4granted]

South
Having taken off on the morning after this incident, and can I say this, the weather was by no means better( I took a photo of FUN out of cockpit from 7 metres away and you cant see anything!) it was bad, Kinshasa or not, its a tough call to say we wait an extra 1 hour on the ground!! let alone lets hold for an extra 20 minutes for things to improve. I have landed in Kin, and no I AM NOT PROUD or joking to say that the no 2 engine flamed out in the taxi to the parking bay.. Lear 25, missed approach followed by visuall at 30 ' and 1 mile circuit...............

Have given up that sh1t now and fly proper a/c now.... never again. I feel and hope we all learn.

4g

[Belgique]

Link (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=204897)
You don't have to swallow all the contrary arguments (they're nonsense)