"If my DAD were Scully" [Archive]

MysticFlyer

30th Dec 2005, 19:29

It stinks rotten! Broederbond, fatherbond....reminds of books written by Mario Puzzo. The tendancy seems natural to advance one's bloodline, but in the process, is the real stronger one advanced?

Granted, it is quite a jungle out there, but these sort of behaviour traits, leads to opposing packs to form from within, which only within a matter of time will in turn become destructive.

What hope is left for anyone in SA, as these type of things happend/s at all levels, I know. A terrible cancer in any society and terribly unfair to the recipient, as the pressure to perform, sometimes outweighs the ability.

Poor DE or TRE/TRI loosing it in the heat of the sim session, and my uncle/brother/father will sort you out syndrome automatically kicks in, it's nothing different as the Dube story, which is why we had the Dube story, because they thought it's OPS normal. The right handshake, bloodline, contact, SAAF sqd. secures it, in the meantime, poor individual has a lot of ability, but what about the other thousand outside with even more ability....

OK, let's clear out all the poor, wrong bloodline peasants. They are only taking up too much space....methinks about a couple of history incidents that may have the storming of the Bastille look like a fairy tale!

Carry on. Natural selection always prevails!

Kennytheking

30th Dec 2005, 19:35

climbfl510,

I sincerely hope that this is simply a wind-up. This individual has done nothing to deserve this kind of disrespect.

I have seen Nationwide taking people that are far less qualified and, quite frankly, with far less ability....and I speak from a position of authority.

I think it is unfortunate that people today can only get ahead by bringing others down. Have you ever stopped to consider that this person may never be judged on merit, despite being a capable pilot. How would you feel if every achievement of yours was scuppered by your peers that cannot make it on their own?

I think your post sucks and you should apologise.

KTK

mattman

30th Dec 2005, 19:57

Here we go again:( Sad how these things will always be a part of our wonderful industry. I have to agree with kenny here. I am really happy she's in and it's what we all are after. It's just sad that there is so much experiance out there that could really benefit the industry but we are kept deep in the jungle. I have been told now a few times that I have to much time to apply, and how I really would like to come back home!!( this rat hole really does not do it for me):yuk:
The thing that will always be here to stay is that people get there lucky breaks and hopefully one day I will get mine If you know the people use the people, and if your quilified to do it go for it.
For me it's back to my burnt out aircon and african beer:}
To all you contactors out there, our time is coming we will be top once again:}

captain cumulonimbus

30th Dec 2005, 20:37

Guys i think personal attacks on here are a bit uncalled for.

many of us know the person in question,some better than others.i've met the individual in question only a few times all outside of the professional context,and from the little i know of her she has some pretty heavy duty experience with aerobatics amongst other flying.Everything i could gather from chatting to her briefly indicated she was a very competent aviator.Please guys,lets not try bring others down on here.It might well be true that being who she is helped,but then wouldn't YOU use what you could to get ahead? Life isn't fair all the time. As Lance Armstrong said of the Tour de France:'its a hard race,but hard work wins it".Thats what'll get those NOT connected to the top,not complaining about others.

Cheers,Cb.

EagleWings

31st Dec 2005, 04:15

Hey guys lets look at this from the other side How S*#t must it be to land a great job and then have every one else say " you only got it because of your father". I flew with this person a few years back when she was doing her PPL and she did really well as I remember.

Yes I'm sure there are many of us out in the field doing contracts with a good few more hours and who feel we should be getting the chance but lets face it, it is not only about who you know although it sure helps!

EW

MysticFlyer

31st Dec 2005, 05:38

Solly once proved that the apple really does not land far from the tree, after I mentioned this a couple of times to him, and he had to prove it to himself.

At the akademie in VTH, some rolling stones never gathered moss too, and with a hop skip and jump, I could've had Solly into spoories with my serious connectedness, but alas, Solly's "upside-down-papbord" really took off one day!

He's now quite happy of his command position on our trips to this side of the moon and back. His career thus literally took off at warpspeed, and he has also proved that luck is never a probability in aviation, too much science involved!

Today, he counts himself a very lucky Solly!

MF;)
PS. History always repeats itself, and that is a fact!

Shrike200

31st Dec 2005, 05:42

Relax everyone, you would have to be pretty thin-skinned to consider any of this a 'personal attack'. If she does have less than 1000 hrs then she has less than all the recent hires at Nwide, so you have to admit, to somebody on the outside it looks suspect. IF she does have those hours, I don't know the facts. Nobody said she couldn't do the job, and who cares if she's female - in this day and age you really don't need to get all tense and defensive about that. Also, we all know that total time is not necessarily an indication of an individuals abilities.

Nonetheless, I feel it's unfair to the boys/girls out there who have spent long hours away from home etc etc and should be up front in the queue when it comes to home jobs, it's as simple as that.

Now, my *personal* opinion (and this has NOTHING to do with the individual in questions abilities AT ALL): I find it extremely hard to believe that either her name or her father had NOTHING to do with her being hired. I plan to ask a few more questions, purely to find out what really happened. I know I, and most of us would do the same in her position in any case. So, no judgement on her, only on the situation/system.

sky waiter

31st Dec 2005, 05:59

Nationwide employs pilots with that type of time all the time, anyone remeber the pay as you go scheme?

If you have the money and "maybe" the connections you are in there thats the way it goes.

Heard a rumour that they abolishing the pay as you go story and back to training bonds, good for us poor pilots out there. Now just gotta get an interview.

Good for her though, good luck enjoy the 1000hrs jet time a year!

MysticFlyer

31st Dec 2005, 06:00

Well said Shrike200!

Now watch as the aviation heavies on this forum keeps very quiet, or take a defensive stance too, funny hey?!

Airmanship or womanship for that matter was developed to have an initial said of unwritten and then later written rules as to how to go about when in the pointy part.

As in sport, how come a person's medal or fame will be removed if found that doping (an unfair advantage) is found, but in aviation it's ok? In business it's called ethics, otherwise you may be likened to the mob. You hit me, WE hit you, and pay your protection money, it's due, capeesch!

But then again, some appointments at NW recently...:ugh:

MF

climbfl510

31st Dec 2005, 06:02

Shrike 200,

You about the only one that can actually look into what its about, and being, its not about being a women, or a personal attack at the person concerned or that s##t.

Its is the simple fact, of how do people progress these days if all what is happening is that people are pulling strings and then just moving into really high positions with a very little experience, And don't kid urself, she is probably a very good pilot, BUT and I say it Again BUT is she ready for this HUGE HUGE Jump, this thing isn't a "hawker slowly" it moves. In my eyes and its my opinion there is better and more qualified people standing in huge huge lines at NTW doors, begging for a job, BUT they don't have the connection are people to pull strings!!!!!!

Also from the stories floating around, the sim check went horribly wrong, but there was a 2nd chance!!! heard of many guys that weren't given this chance, is this true or is it a "personal attack" for whatever that is KennytheKing!!!!!

This is another reason why us good, hard working South Africans with the correct requirements are heading across the "Pond" to the fragrant harbour, where this **** aint happening and you are selected on experience and requirements!!!!!!

Anyway be it what it is,

"Over and Out"

Climbfl510:ok:

Stayinalive

31st Dec 2005, 06:11

Climbfl510 get off your pedestal and get to reality china. I have worked with the person in question and can tell you that she deserves where she has got to.
Thanx KTK for the support u have shown and sincerely hope that this type of name bashing gets bashed into the ground where it belongs! Easy for the likes of 510 to sit and hide behind a pc and expose the names of others and see what happens. Childish!!

Ajax 28

31st Dec 2005, 07:36

I think that most of you have missed the point of this post.. The question asked was did she meet the min requirements that apply to everyone to get accepted into nationwide?

If so, then that settles it, if not, then good for her for jumping the que and getting a very lucky break that the rest of us won't get. I do not know her personally and i think that this is being taken far too personally by some people, judging by the replies that have been posted..

Have a safe 2006 to all out there

SpootNICK

31st Dec 2005, 07:50

I cant say I approve of the way this thread was started......

It clearly fingers out a certain individual (and her father), and insinuates that she has been given preference over other pilots.

Why do that?

If you feel that strongly about the issue, why not approach the subject in a different manner, and get an objective discussion going.

Poor show.......

saywhat

31st Dec 2005, 07:55

I don't know the person at all, but if she had a Com, she met the requirements!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If her name might have helped her , so be it. Only 2 decades ago, she would not have been given an equal chance at all, however, there was not a lot of complaints at that stage, as we were all on the right side of the equality fence. Well done whoever you are, may you have a long, safe and prosperous flying career.

MysticFlyer

31st Dec 2005, 08:10

The kettle's calling the pots black?

saywhat's back....guess why? You know what, 12 years ago, it wasn't right too, but guess what, it happened. So two wrongs added up for a right for you. Many papa's organised a selection board to overlook a squint eye, wooden leg or three.

VB, can and obviously has done with NW just what he likes. Spoories is another story, and there's many a PF child walking the corridors at Kempton Park and beyond, with their chips and bars firmly in place.

SpootNICK, what's the difference between this and the Lucky Dube thread? Did you call FOUL on that one, wait I'll go look....

MF;)

I.R.PIRATE

31st Dec 2005, 08:27

My mommy once asked me," who said life is fair??" Everyone should just deal with their own little disappointments. She got the job, deal with it, I would also love that job, however, I have to live with the way it all crumbles.

Now rather go do something constructive, like work on WHY YOU HAVE TIME TO RANT AND RAVE ABOUT IT< shouldnt you be flying aeroplanes.....

ByAirMail

31st Dec 2005, 08:59

Change of attitude when convenient.

In 1999 I went to a SAA interview, I was a B727 commander at Nationwide at the time. During the interview Scully paged through my license (the old type that was bind with the ribbon!) In the middle of the license was a pink slip that was issued by Nationwide regarding currency of emergency training. I thought it was a convenient place to keep it. Scully asked me what it was, like he could not read! After explaining to him he instructed me to remove it as it was not part of the license, “Matter of fact, I don’t except any Nationwide training” was his words………..BUT NOW THEY ARE GOOD ENOUGH FOR HIS DAUGHTER????????

Gunship

31st Dec 2005, 09:06

It is a cruel World out there.

I also arranged a few jobs for PPRUNERS over the years ...

Something wrong with that ? :E

MysticFlyer

31st Dec 2005, 09:13

Last time we had a difference, I recall you sending a PM. You should wake up and smell the Polisie-koffie it's cold too, boetie! R.I. forgetting?

Anyway, the cookies are crumbling.....nes ouma's beskuit left too long in the saddle-bag! Time, that I have plenty of, money, now that's another story on how Solly sold his patents!

MF:p

FlyItLikeARental

31st Dec 2005, 09:24

I think that people with glass houses shouldn't throw stones...or is it people with stones shouldn't have glass houses? Our industry is more nepotistic than any other, maybe with the exclusion of parliament. How many of us out there have had jobs or interviews 'arranged' for us by friends or family members in positions to do so? I garuantee there is a large percentage of us out here who are where we are becasue of not only what we know, but who we know.

Romeo E.T.

31st Dec 2005, 11:13

My few cents worth.

A few years ago his son tried on many occasions to get into "spoories" and failed a few times, Daddy's influence...he had to spend a lot of time at "Link" before he was deemed good enough by the Kingdom at the land of Skygods. I suppose it was a way of showing the industry that just because he carries daddy's surname does not automatically get him in to SAA. I believe he is now a worthy employee of SAA and that is not due to daddy influence but due to his own persistance and skill. How he got into "Link" wether there was any "father" influence there I do not know?? Know history may be repeating itself in that daddy's name may have helped to get into NTWD, min hours or not. Equallity plan as deemed by govt has already caused companies everywhere to bend the hiring requirements to please the ANC. Even SAA hired lady drivers about 10 years ago with only 500hrs and a basic twin/IF whilst Paleskin males with 3000hrs+ had to just sit and watch.

How many of you out there also got that first KingAir job or Baron job etc because of a contact in the right place at the right time. I know of many.......same situation here. It would really stink if she had got an accelerated possition into SAA, but it looks like daddy is grooming her for a future intake into HIS airline, but the process will not be easy for her, and just listening to the conditions of servcive at NTWD it looks like she will be doing it the hard way, maybee not as hard as those african contract fliers out there but then also for a lot less "moola"

Here's to wishing her all the success for the future and may there be just as many "contacts" out there for all the "wingers and winers" that have replied on this topic so far.

Shrike200

31st Dec 2005, 11:41

Scully asked me what it was, like he could not read! After explaining to him he instructed me to remove it as it was not part of the license, “Matter of fact, I don’t except any Nationwide training” was his words………..BUT NOW THEY ARE GOOD ENOUGH FOR HIS DAUGHTER????????

To quote Metallica: "And justice for all.....":E

Good one, thanks for that!

birdlady

31st Dec 2005, 11:53

Gentlemen,

Id just like to say you've all restored my faith in the male race. ;) ;) Kudos to you. :ok: :ok:

Happy New Year ;) ;)

cavortingcheetah

31st Dec 2005, 12:04

:p

If I remember correctly, Scully went to great lengths to build up his flight hours; even to the extent of sleeping under the wings of aeroplanes in order to fly free the next day. A bit of barnstorming that, something of which most of the aviation youthful ones of today know little.
I have flown with the man in the past on more than one occasion. I wish I had done so more often, for, without wishing to lionize the old scallywag; I could have learnt a great deal from him.
I am sure that Scully's daughter has had the benefit of a fine aviation education at the hands of, well, I wouldn't want the man to become too swollen headed, an excellent aviator.
The only thing, in my never humble opinion, wrong with favouritism or nepotism is where it leads to the promotion of someone who is inadequate for the position in question.
I doubt that such is the case with daughter of Scully.
Let me be blunt for moment, those aviators who bang about the bush in Cessna 206s from Maun may accumulate hours - but where is the experience that really kits them out for a multi- crew complex managment operation ?
I have taken advantage of friends and contacts in aviation, and in other places too, and the man who says he would not, I call economical with self honesty.
I believe that the cockpit is the preserve of men. Women belong in the back with the drinks trolley, but in this case I wish the lady the best of luck.
Of course she should go on to Spoories. It's a family tradition worth preserving in this vacuous day and age. You should have heard some of her grandfather Harold's stories, no doubt suitably embellished! Spitfires or was it Hurricanes? under the washing lines of Calcutta!

I wonder if her dad still has his little bar fridge?:hmm:

Happy New Year to everyone and also to those who do not celebrate such a festival at this time of year.:D

the_chin

31st Dec 2005, 12:16

This has been a very interesting thread to read but altogether not surprising.

As usual the feminists/racists (yes your in the same group) who are still so insecure and so weak respond with the same sterotypical, and oh soooooooo boring over played card!

One must wonder when all this will end, racism, sexism bla de bla is such a waste of good energy... I think it should be stated once more: If you want equality carry your own bags.... forget the double standards - it wouldn't be right/fair to have everything both ways. Just plain MERIT would be nice - idealistic oh yes! but it would be nice...

This is still very small industry by always pulling the "victim card" you are making it very hard for ANYONE trying to get there....

Anyway to the real point of my response

I do agree with the people (thats GALS/WOMEN/GIRLS, GUYS/MEN/BOYS, BLACK,GREEN,PINK,BROWN,YELLOW,RED,MAGENTA [there was no order to this] - just to cover all the bases here :)) that there are probably 10000000 more eligable PILOTS waiting and trying etc to get into any of the bigger airlines. This is a GIVEN in ANY industry!

And yes, having been shafted like many others - I am bitter, but the problem with children like this PILOT is simple (and there are many many of these around) - Mommy and Daddy can't be there forever to bail them out of the muck or to pave the way (Parents like these can be likend to Dr Frankenstein and his monster). I'm pretty sure this is not the first time that Dr F and Mrs F have got involved... so sad...

What scares me is that there are lives at stake here (this is not an attack on anyone personally its about expierance and skills) - anyone read "Airframe"? If not, read it, its quite pertinent to this thread.... The same could be said for any other industry where someone elses life is at stake...

As character, ability and whether or not this PILOT can actually handle the job who knows, time will tell - and nature has a funny way of keeping the balance... - and keeping with the rumours that I have heard; it would be nice to see this PILOT actually have to fight for something or at least do a bit of the time required to earn it...

To add a different focus point for a second there is a PPL pilot wannabe with over 100 hours of training that still has not gone solo - I'm sure you'll all agree there are lots of problems that need sorting..

All the best for 2006 hopefully it we will all get what we deserve! :)

P>S> Keep the names out of the threads not only is it bad manners, but it is somewhat illegal - defamation etc...

Where are the MONITORS/EDITORS/ADJUDICATORS? - it should have been ***E%@#$ out....

ou Trek dronkie

31st Dec 2005, 12:26

I seem to remember Harold flew Daks over the hump. For a while anyway. And I believe he was in the RAF, not the SAAF ?

A character and a half.

oTd

cavortingcheetah

31st Dec 2005, 12:37

;) otd

You might be right on both counts. Less room under the clothesline though. Happy New Year.

The name thing, H is dead, S might be deemed public domain?

climbfl510

31st Dec 2005, 13:22

Well I take it that my answer has then been answered, be it good or bad news for the poor guys in need of work and that just can't get it right!!!!!!!!

I also take that the saying "WHERE THERE IS SMOKE THERE IS FIRE" might just have a meaning to this thread.

If you keen on SAA, "our NATIONAL FLAG CARRIER" then please do not go against or appose what some of us think of this very unfortunate situation that is happening!!

Take it that I WILL NOT BE CONSIDERED FOR A POSITION AT SAA AS I HAVE GONE AGAINST THE THINKING OF CERTAIN PEOPLE"S OUTLOOK ON TRAINING OFFERED BY OTHER AIRLINES IN OUR COUNTRY, but who gives a #$%%@$^@%$#@!!

It is perhaps time people wake up and take a look down from their thrones and see what reality is in SA for those of us that would have dearly loved to put those bright golden wings of our national flag carrier on!!!!!!

This was not against the person in question, but rather against the way things are being done at the moment in our aviation sector!!

On a lighter note hope you all have a really awesome new year full of oppurtunity's and make the best of them!!!!!!

Best Regards

Climbfl510

MysticFlyer

31st Dec 2005, 13:27

Of course she should go on to Spoories. It's a family tradition worth preserving in this vacuous day and age.

Surely if Solly, his children and grandchildren were all in my employ, eventually they may think that they have historic rights to my companies. Ultimately it would still be legally owned by me, and they would be drawing salaries as opposed to drawings.

Just checking though, to what is in the public domain...family life?

I.R.PIRATE

31st Dec 2005, 13:29

But now all that I need to know is :" What are we achieving by spending so much time bitching about it?" Just learn to accept the things that you cannot change.....it makes it all so much easier.

the_chin

31st Dec 2005, 13:43

Fair enough... just felt that pointing the finger at Scully (specifically) was a little unfair - as many have said nepotism/friends/contacts is and has always been there...

You have to give Scully credit where its due he worked, he earned and he is relishing in his career. What is wrong with picture is Sally has never done any of the above... All she has learnt so far is to run to dad when things get tough...

The the bright side of this and I hope that Sally sees this at least in some small part: There are people watching - if there is a better reason to prove people wrong this is it... - like I said time she earnt it... be interesting to see if the same feelings that are expressed here would be expressed face 2 face with either Scully or Sally...

I agree with Climbfl510 the point is keeping an eye on the what is happening and trying to keep it on track - bitching/2 cents/ having your say are important - you can only fix it if you KNOW its broken....

If we accepted things for what they were we would never have discovered fire, invented the wheel or god forbid started to fly!

I.R.PIRATE

31st Dec 2005, 13:59

Um , well I am a mere mortal, and admit that there are things I cannot change....try saying it in the mirror tonight...." remember thou art mortal, remember thou art mortal, " ad nauseum.:yuk:

cavortingcheetah

31st Dec 2005, 14:13

;)
The South African aviation sector?

Well damn me for a lost aviator!

Here then is a system where women of dubious title can hold positions of nationwide importance when licences and qualifications might belie the suitability of such appointment.

Here is a system in which officers of the state can flap their golden wings and take off in pretty little Boeings with nothing more than a short crash course of convenience.

It seems to me that t'were better to aim the cannons at the heads of those who run the system at higher levels than some poor dithering female pilot who happened to have been in the right place at the moment of childbirth.

The Devil with domain. If the man were not almost a national hero none would know his name in any event.

Pink slips do not belong in licences anymore than Playboy centrefolds belong inside passports, even if it were to be a true likeness!

Go rather for the jugular and instead purge the CAA of its purported corruption; manifestations of which so often surface within these august pages of Pprune.
:ok:

MysticFlyer

31st Dec 2005, 14:28

Well I remember a crash in a course once or twice, but bloodline thus sorted that out too.

The SALM Akademie turned out quite a few playboys too, even of the class of what was it, '69? Those little white rondawels at the water reservoir in VTH, what if they could speak or does anybody that old still trott these pages?

I.R.PIRATE

31st Dec 2005, 14:45

O wise cavorter....no there you hitting the nail on the head. That is one of the things that could be changed, were there enough people in high positions that would actually wield some of their power and influence, to try and get our whole CAA debacle sorted out. Clearly they dont really care, and its left for us mortals to cry about it.

Mf...well not quite that old, but of water towers, front pullers in elevated locations, and Roberts too.....staff and courses...(services too)

Plunder plunder pillage and wonder.....:}

Gunship

31st Dec 2005, 17:12

Yirrrrrrrrrrr Mysty is it me in your firing line again ? As I was the poster before your rave ???

Re VTH ... Dunno's ... Langebaan .. Akadeem ... broer I have seen so many nepotism I can write a book about it.

I will today catagorically state that if my then girlfriend 's dad did not get pi$$ed with oom MM every evening Gunss would have never made the SAAF ... I am 100% sure of that !

I mean there I was a pi$$ cat medic in Potch treating the wounded and awaiting my border duty when the call came the Monday after a drunk promise was made ... easy as that !

Later was told MM made the difference.:E

I had NOBODY on earth even close to the forces except the big man himself. (Uhm I did thank him when I was a VIP Cmdr later) :E He obviously could not remember me .. then again I became a lean and trim mean machine :E

Now I am asking - if I have the opportunity to help my own child ... I will do it anyday - with the biggest of pleasures.

Just as I have helped PPRUNERS before and will always help them (if they are of course nice to me ;) ) - I will and that is that.

If Miss Scully's hours are scares and falls short of minima .... and wha wha wha ... well that is another story ... but making use of contacts ... why not ?

With that ... fluit fluit my storie is uit tot volgende jaar :ok:

Happy New year all !

Shrike200

1st Jan 2006, 05:52

The only thing, in my never humble opinion, wrong with favouritism or nepotism is where it leads to the promotion of someone who is inadequate for the position in question.

So nepotism etc is fine, as long as the person can do the job? I disagree, but obviously you're entitled to your opinion...I just hope you don't get to decide my fate though, since I don't have any heav contacts anywhere.

I think everyone deserves a 'fair shot at the title', based on THEIR experience which THEY have gained. Obviously a 206 out of Maun may not cut it, but a 737, 727, ATR42, B1900 operated by reputable companies wherever they may be, quite frankly does. So my gripe is not with this particular individual, it's with what everyone believes is right - sure we all use contacts, I've done it for every single one of my flying jobs. But once I had their attention, it was MY experience that clinched the deal, not somebodies name or word. And not just my experience - it was the amount of it, ie I had the same or more on average than other applicants, and it was a suitable platform to jump from into the job in question. In other words, you put in the time, you perform, you accumulate hours/years of experience with no bent metal or scared pax, and you GET THE JOB. You don't get shafted by somebody jumping the queue on a name, ahead of you with less experience, but a more connected father.

Thats what I believe. Sure, it's an imperfect world, and life's not fair, but that doesn't mean I accept that.

MysticFlyer

1st Jan 2006, 06:55

Guns, post aimed at IR, hence the RI.

If the shoe fits...and I see it was a perfect match too!

Another good post, Shrike200, right on the money!

cavortingcheetah

1st Jan 2006, 06:59

:eek:

Well, I have to look at nepotism in this way.
I would and still will do anything for my children within certain relatively obvious boundaries.
Included in this desire that they should be happy lies an inherent wish to advance their careers in their chosen paths.
I have and will do anything, again within certain parameters, in order to advance their careers.
I would not be so unkind as to force my children into a situation that was of my choosing nor one in which I felt they were unable to succeed.
If this be nepotism, then so be it, perhaps unfair preferment, but then again, so it shall be.
Therefore, I can hardly moan and groan when someone else obtains, through influence or whatever reasonable means at their disposal, the same benefits for the fruit of their loins that I would wish to see accrue to mine.
This is not an opinion so much as an integral part of the duty of parenthood.
It is all part of the silver spoon syndrome. Those who do not accept this must, perforce, look to other clouds for silver linings.:)

MysticFlyer

1st Jan 2006, 07:14

Ah, the Hiram Abif way you mean?

This I declare, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Kor. 15 v.50

This sort of silver lined cloud, cavorting?

Gunship

1st Jan 2006, 07:45

:eek: Ah well Mistified- the firing line broadens then (again) ... ahhh well. Ignore mode is in order for 2006 - will not let that upset me mate. :hmm:

CC a great post. My English is bad - you have said what I am trying to say :ok:

To those with a kopseer ... sorry :yuk:

Have a great 2006 and fly safe out there :ok:

climbfl510

1st Jan 2006, 07:49

Shrike200, you on the button again!!!

Contacts are always used by everyone, usually introduced to the people then its over to you to make it happen!This is one of the only ways that we can move up the ladder, which is the way I see aviation being, BUT since when do you jump the gun in a race, Is this what aviation is becoming these days, A race???

But there is just absolutely no way that nationwide can even try and tell me and other viewers that she,(and i must also add in a few others that have got in in this past year or so with less than 1000hrs) have the required requirements to fill a position in the company!!! The unfortunate thing was that the person in question is by far less experienced than these other individuals and has a very well known family name. You can sit in the back of anything flying with who you want upside down all that #%%#%$#, the fact is that if these hours are not in your logbook you don't have them.. I really can not see that cause your grandfather flew hurricanes and Bla Bla Bla, can even help you in anyway! If i sit around listening to highly experienced people talk, does that in anyway change how I fly?:confused:

My Grandfather also flew spits, BUT when I have been for a interview, this has helped squat diddly #%$#%. I don't get some people's point that she has been exposed to this, therefore she's better prepared than others.:confused:

And as one other Ppruner said why we complaining there is nothing we can do, WELL as for that, I think its incorrect whats going on in SA and it is time people know about it, if we don't voice ourselves then it will never get fixed! Cause the "SQWEAKY WHEEL GETS THE OIL"
Its fine for all you parents out there that think you can spoon feed your children and wipe there#$@, cause you know what, you will not be able to do it forever!! They will have to learn to sink or swim!! And I hope for Mine and people out there's sake that they don't sink when the upfront in the heat of battle, because it happens and has happened in the past, innocent bystanding lives have been claimed!!!!

I also feel that N-wide must just be a littlt cautious with the way they approach this situation, because we are all to familiar that the operation is not sqweaky clean, not that its bad, but when someone gets home and starts "Bitching and Moaning" then we going to see fireworks!!

I would love to know if Mr B........... knows about this, or if Mrs V. B....... (DFO) is just keeping it under the carpet from Him!!!!

And by they way I am not bitching and moaning about this cause I am jealous or cause I want the job, but I am very very tired of seeing my fellow aviators in SA getting screwed over from all this crap!!! I am much happier where I am than what I would be there!!! Its time to just give a little back to aviation and get things ironed out, thats my opinion like it or not!!!

Anyway Happy New Year to you all!!!!!

Cheers

ClimbFl510:ok:

Gunship

1st Jan 2006, 08:01

Guns, post aimed at IR, hence the RI.

Then Mysty seems to fit you as well :E

from the threads I think it sort of an agreement between a clear cut nepotism ... (hey how is Lucky doing ?) and then someone with contacts .. or what boys and gals ?:8

MysticFlyer

1st Jan 2006, 08:39

Guns, feel free to PM me, praat dan afrikaans, jou engels hier, kry ek nie so mooi nie...

Ns. Tip, delete you storie.

Gunship

1st Jan 2006, 08:41

Watter een ?

Ns. Tip, delete you storie.

Solid Rust Twotter

1st Jan 2006, 09:00

No one ever said life would be fair. Nepotism exists but whinging about it won't change a thing. It needs to be changed from the inside and the only way to do that is to use the energy spent complaining in a more constructive manner, become the chief pilot of a company and tell the bloke who wants his little boy or girl to get an unfair advantage to stick it up his mudbox and go bother someone else.

Keep banging your heads on the wall, guys. Eventually it has to fall over and that lekker job will be on the other side...:ok: :}

cavortingcheetah

1st Jan 2006, 09:05

:hmm:

I fail to see what connection Hiram Abif has with this thread. Neither can I see that Jubela, Jubelo, Jubelum and the mystic 2672 have any relevance.
Furthermore, I do not quite understand why so many matters of mysterical confusion must be directed toward Freemasonry; an ancient craft which has been, from time to time, as honourable or dishonourable as any other.
In any event, were there to be a connection, however tenuous; I believe it to be an historical inexactitude to raise such points of ancient, antidiluvian and anachronistic moment and attempt to apply them to today's rather more mundane but pertinent problems. Let the ancient mysteries rest!:=

Duff Man SA

2nd Jan 2006, 09:57

Fl510,

You go on about how this is not a personal attack on anyone, but a bitch about the system, yet you have failed to mention anything about the cadets, other people who have jumped many a queue at many other places, or any of the other recent NTW starters.

With quite a few hours on a 20t a/c (And surely flying a "Hawker Slowly" is better than a 1900, J41 etc if your wondering about large a/c multi crew exp?) and west african contracts done, the pilot in question is rather more qualifed than others who have gone just before her into NTW. Contrary to popular belief, she has worked very hard to get to where she is and for you to sit there having a personal, woe-is-me-my-life-is-not-fair-I'm-a-****** dig at people you don't know is not right, especially on this sort of public forum. Get to know people instead of throwing your toys from the safety of behind your keyboard.

A Happy New Year to all ppruners.
Fl510::mad:

"People in glass cockpits shouldn't throw stones" ;)

FuelFlow

2nd Jan 2006, 10:30

Well said Duff Man

Just for info, another female had her last day at SAA on the 31st. Not even 2 years service!!!

Send your CV`s boys

Solid Rust Twotter

2nd Jan 2006, 12:48

Why did she leave?:confused:

Gunship

2nd Jan 2006, 14:04

Wonder what Scully has to say.

Will forward the thread to him when I have my life back (lapdog) :ouch:

B200Drvr

2nd Jan 2006, 15:28

You know what must really SUCK!!! Is having achieved something on your own as I am sure most of you have and then to have a bunch of misserable whingers think that everything you do and achieve is because of who your father is. She is female, whether you like it or not, under current hiring practises in alot of countries, she was going to get the job ahead of a male anyway(and this is not her fault or her fathers), because they have quotas. If NW had X amount of vacancies for females you were not in the running if you had a #$ck.
Untill you have hard evidence that she got in to NW because of her Dad, be a Gentleman and give her the benefit of the doubt.

birdlady

2nd Jan 2006, 16:30

I bet my bottom dollar that not one of us has not used our connections to get furthur ahead in life. Life seems to not only be about what you know but who you know especially in the aviation industry. With so few jobs out there and so many pilots the only way to get ahead in this game is to have a friend/family member in the game who is in a position to give you a helping hand. :) :) :) However, if you have used your connections to get furthur ahead be willing to get a bit of stick for it, as said too many pilots to few jobs so I think a bit of jealousness is definately going to come into play. I've said it before, and Ill say it again by creating these quotas (PDI BEE etc) I beleive your not helping the battle against discrimination in actual fact your making it worse.

I wish the lady in question the best of luck and if I was in her position I would have done exactly the same...........:ok: :ok:

I.R.PIRATE

2nd Jan 2006, 16:55

B200 Driver, I am so in agreement, thats exactly what needs to be understood. There are quota's, there must be lady drivers. DEal with it people. You that are moaning about not getting the job, probably werent in the running anyway. Not aimed at anyone, just to all the bitter boys out there.

" Yes MF, grabbing the stuff I left at the door, and on my bike....:{

Solid Rust Twotter

2nd Jan 2006, 17:16

It is the way of things, Grasshopper.

Pissing and moaning won't get us those jobs. Irritating the Human Remains Dept at the airline with countless CVs will.

Eventually...:ugh:

porridge

2nd Jan 2006, 17:16

As B200drvr says – if there is policy to recruit female pilots then it doesn’t matter who the parents are the individual is going to get in front of the queue. It the same in Europe as it must be in most other countries in the world these days, barring the ME.
Also I know that Scully has helped a lot people in this industry in many ways, some big some small. He’s a great personality and he is good at bringing the best out in people and boosting their confidence. Sorry, but if the chance came to me to return the favour it would be a no-brainer and I would not have needed a reminder to call in the favour either. That how life is “what ye sow, so shall you reap”.
“Quam transitus nostrum glorificus mundus”.

tired

2nd Jan 2006, 17:25

Sorry, I'm obviously missing something here.

Scully works for SAA. SAA and Nationwide are in direct competition - very bad-tempered competition a lot of the time too. From some of the things Vernon B's been quoted as saying in the past, he seems to regard Spoories as the Evil Empire. So how would Scully's name help anyone get a job with Nationwide?

Forgive me if I'm being more than usually thick..........

Gunship

3rd Jan 2006, 09:45

Forgive me if I'm being more than usually thick..........

I do not think you are - a very valid question ... :ok:

MysticFlyer

3rd Jan 2006, 10:12

You're forgiven, and I arrest my case!

If everything in life was this clear, hey we should all have kept that brilliant point in mind!

tongue still firmly in cheek...

Anyone differing, could be tarred or burned at the stake! Boy have things changed in this great civilisation? :ugh:

Shrike200

3rd Jan 2006, 12:41

SAA and Nationwide are in direct competition - very bad-tempered competition a lot of the time too

They are, no doubt. However, that doesn't deny some basic needs - for an example of this duality, view the employment on a part time basis of several ex-SAA big boys at Nationwide, to help with the current shortage (or so I'm told!) of crew. Besides, Scully may have at some stage befriended or helped the person currently directly responsible for new hires at Nationwide. Therefore, while Nationwide as a company might view SAA as 'the enemy' (laughable as that may sound), this 'enmity' does not necessarily extend between the individuals of the two companies.

Shrugging your shoulders and saying 'Life's not fair, deal with it' is an inherently South African attitude. In some cases, I choose not to do that. Thats the reason behind my ongoing commentary on this thread, not any ill-will towards any of the persons in question. I've never met any of them.

Name changed 4HP

Shrike200

3rd Jan 2006, 12:54

And interestingly, I got told that Nationwides stated policy (ie written down somewhere, Ops manual maybe?) is that new hires must have a minimum of 1500 hrs. Nationwide would have been guilty of breaking that 'rule' (if it is indeed true) in the recent past of course, but they seem to have complied with it with the recently hired groups.

This is a rumour network, and I unfortunately can't easily verify my point above. Plus of course, I don't know the total time of our current subject of discussion! I wonder if she reads these forums? It would be best if there were some more facts on the ground here, and quite frankly hearing them direct from the person in question would be great.

GormanInkarnati

3rd Jan 2006, 16:42

Enough already!!!!!

Can we close this thread please. Accept things as they are and you will lead a far happier life. If there is a Lady, or a person who is not of the fairer skin type out there they will get the job before you. That is the way the country operates at the moment. Accept it, wait your turn and have another dop to calm those nerves.

GI

SpootNICK

3rd Jan 2006, 19:41

Amen......................!

Gerund

3rd Jan 2006, 20:15

Gorman and Spoot, spot on!

This whole thread is a disgrace.

captain cumulonimbus

3rd Jan 2006, 21:13

PORRIDGE,i agree with what you and so many others on here are saying.Sadly,though,to continue your use of latin maxim:"PER ARDUA AD ASTRA" is perhaps a fitting way of describing the difficulties many SA white males have in the industry.

Cheers,Cb

ou Trek dronkie

3rd Jan 2006, 21:22

When I was in blue, this meant "After work to the bioscoop"

oTd

Solid Rust Twotter

3rd Jan 2006, 21:30

You're not going to change the system from the outside. The only way to do it is internally.

Kind of a Catch-22....:suspect: :(

It remains doubtful whether anyone on here wouldn't have done the same thing, given the opportunity.

TooBadSoSad

3rd Jan 2006, 21:35

If Scully had wanted to, he could have got his daughter into SAA! SAA is currently scraping the barrel trying to find suitable DG candidates for the airline, and recent interviews with non-cadet females have left the selection panel shaking their heads in dismay at the poor standard of the candidates they have been forced to interview, AND THEY HAVE NOT HIRED THESE CANDIDATES. I am sure that Scully's daughter would have flown through the interview process WITHOUT any prepping by her father, but he chose to let her gain experience outside of SAA which will ensure that she has far more experience than other white females hired by SAA when she is eventually hired, and then hopefully there won't be another thread like this screaming about preferential treatment!

SortieIII

4th Jan 2006, 07:32

Enough already!!!!!GI

I agree Gorman. :yuk:

Jlo

4th Jan 2006, 10:52

It's funny how people who are related to pilots in important influential positions are always judged as 'incompetent', etc. As if that's the only reason why they made it into the system. Some people do actually work hard and deserve where they are. Personally i think they are better off just being another nameless person because at least then they will be seen as equals.

Some of you people need to get over yourselves. There's a place in the sun for all of us! And if you have to work harder to get there, it will just make you a better person.

:)

B200Drvr

4th Jan 2006, 13:52

JLO, Tobadsosad.
Hear hear:ok: Well said.

cargodoor

5th Jan 2006, 10:14

None of us would have said NO to that job no matter how or who helped us get it. Its her fortune and at the end of the day her career just goes a bit quicker than most. Don't blame her for it, be happy for her. We all need some luck at some stage and it will come.
The only thing I can't understand from all of this is that if she has the right connection why she doesn't just go straight to SAA!! More money and nicer aircraft!! Good luck S!!

SIC

7th Jan 2006, 06:35

NTW ops manual does state that a co jo needs 1500 hours. But the company has hired sveral in the past two years who did not meet the requirement. The book is only there cause the CAA requires it. When I worked there I never had a copy and thus had no idea of basic operating policy every pilot should know by heart. They like to keep you in the dark....
As far as hiring a female goes I know for a fact the boss is not very keen on women cause they all leave - NTW lost all three their female pilots last year - two within three months of gettin hired - and all to SAA. My ten cents worth is that she was not hired by Vernon - but by Lady ops manager. And he probably blew his top when he heard about it. That said he probably accepted it cause they are under pressure to do more affirmative actions! Its a pretty white male company.
Lastly - a lot of guys there got hired cause they knew someone - or paid for it. Stop bitching about it; you all know that is the game here in SA and you would all do the same if you had a daddy with a famous name or a deep pocket.

Name removed. 4HP