Non published holding instructions.FAA vs JAA

[sideloader]

Hi there,
I'd like to solve the mistery regarding this topic.
I have been talking about this issue with different pilots and everyone has its own view.

Ok, I'd like to know what is the proper way an ATC station will issue a non published holding in European Airspace vs American Airspace.

Also, why in europe some pilots do not even know what an EFC(Expected further clearance time) is?

Could you give examples?

Thanks a lot for your help.

[Carbide Finger]

Make it up as you go along! I don't think there is a standard phraseology

example one : maintain FLXXX, hold in your present position, right hand turns one/two minute legs, onward clearance time XXX

example two : maintain FLXXX, hold on the XXX radial from XXX left hand turns, turn outbound at XXX dme, onward clearance time XXXX.

The transmissions would probably be split up depending on the pilots.

I standby to be corrected.

CF

[Warped Factor]

UK ATC Manual (MATS Pt1) phraseology section has these...

Hold at (fix) (level) inbound track (number) turns right/left (time of leg)

Hold on the (designated) VOR at (distance) DME (level) inbound track (three digits) turns right/left limiting outbound distance (number) DME.

WF.

[Scott Voigt]

Here's what the controller bible says in the US about holding... There is a lot of other stuff too, but this I think goes to the root of the question...


4-6-4. HOLDING INSTRUCTIONS

When issuing holding instructions, specify:

a. Direction of holding from the fix/waypoint.

b. Holding fix or waypoint.

NOTE-
The holding fix may be omitted if included at the beginning of the transmission as the clearance limit.

c. Radial, course, bearing, track, azimuth, airway, or route on which the aircraft is to hold.

d. Leg length in miles if DME or RNAV is to be used. Specify leg length in minutes if the pilot requests it or you consider it necessary.

e. Direction of holding pattern turns only if left turns are to be made, the pilot requests it, or you consider it necessary.

PHRASEOLOGY-
HOLD (direction) OF (fix/waypoint) ON (specified radial, course, bearing, track, airway, azimuth(s), or route.)

If leg length is specified,

(number of minutes/miles) MINUTE/MILE LEG.

If direction of turn is specified,

LEFT/RIGHT TURNS.

NOTE-
It is mandatory for the controller to issue left or right turns every time a holding pattern is issued for MLS.

f. Issue maximum holding airspeed advisories when an aircraft is:

1. Approved to exceed the maximum airspeed of a pattern, and is cleared into a holding pattern that will protect for the greater speed; or

2. Observed deviating from the holding pattern airspace area; or

3. Cleared into an airspeed restricted holding pattern in which the icon has not been published.

EXAMPLE-
Due to turbulence, a turboprop requests to exceed the recommended maximum holding airspeed. ATCS may clear the aircraft into a pattern that protects for the airspeed request, and shall advise the pilot of the maximum holding airspeed for the holding pattern airspace area.

PHRASEOLOGY-
"MAXIMUM HOLDING AIRSPEED IS TWO ONE ZERO KNOTS."

regards

Scott

[Another_CFI]

As a pilot over the years I have remembered Warped Factor's details of the message to be passed with the acronym FLIRT.

F ix
L evel
I nbound track
R ight or left turn
T ime