Approach Ban ????

[Fellowstudent]

Hello everyone,

I am a fellow ATPL student. If possible could someone please clarify the following for me.

On an Approach ban, is cloud base taken into account ?? I was reading in the Aerad flight supplement what an approach ban is and it only mentioned RVR and or Visability but made no mention of cloud base.

ie if the RVR for an approach was 550m and it was reported as say 1000m, your DA is 350ft and the cloud base is 300ft could you still make an approach to land ???

Thanks a lot in advance to anyone that can help clear this up for me.

Fellowstudent.

[Megaton]

Approach ban uses RVR only. At DA/MDA it is up to you whether you can see the runway environment sufficiently to complete the approach. After 1000' RVRs are for information only ie on your approach where the RVR is initially 1000m but drops to 300m after 1000' you can continue.

[FlyingForFun]

After 1000' RVRs are for information only I thought this was after the FAF that this happens? Not sure where your 1000' comes from?

FFF
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[Fellowstudent]

Thanks Hamphisted for clearing that up for me.

Flyingforfun, I believe the 1000' refers to:

If there is no outer marker or equivalent postion then the commander, if the reported RVR is below minima, can not descend past 1000ft above AAL. If the aircraft is already past the outer marker / equivalent point or 1000' feet in the formers abscence and the reported RVR falls below minima then the aircraft can continue the approach and if suitable visual is aquired, can land perfecfly legally.

I may be wrong though as this is all pretty new to me.

Thanks again guys for your input.

[Piltdown Man]

Cloudbase is not relevant for making a Precision approach, only RVR. However, it may give an indication as to when you may become visual. In answer to your question, yes you could make an approach and descend pass the outer maker. Once you are past the outer marker, all bets are off.

PS. For a DH of 350' (yech, don't you just hate QFE), the RVR would have to be significantly greater than 550M.

[AndyDRHuddleston]

I just sat my IR initial on Friday, and this was one of the points I discussed.

The approach ban is 1000' agl. The approach may continue if after the aircraft passes either 1000'agl or passes the FAF and the RVR drops below that required for the approach (as published or 800m for single pilot ops - whichever the greatest)

Cloub base is never a show stopper, only the RVR/met viz.

Hope that clears it up

ADRH

[BillieBob]

Assuming that we are talking about the 'approach ban' in the UK, how is the Final Approach Fix relevant? The ANO 2005 states:An aircraft to which article 38 applies, when making a descent to an aerodrome, shall not descend from a height of 1000 feet or more above the aerodrome to a height less than 1000 feet above the aerodrome if the relevant runway visual range at the aerodrome is at the time less than the specified minimum for landing No mention of FAF as far as I can see.

[AndyDRHuddleston]

BB, I had never heard of the FAF / approach ban rule, but this was mentioned by the number 1 CAA examiner when I sat my test! I know who I'm going to listen to as far as my test is concerned!

Cheerio

ADRH

[FlyingForFun]

Hmm, interesting. I had never heard of the 1000' approach ban, I always thought the ban applied at FAF. But the ANO is the definitive answer on this, so it appears I'm wrong.

Now I'd like to know what the source of my dis-information is, though..... I'll go away and read some textbooks and see if I can find the source of the confusion.

FFF
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[Maude Charlee]

Some confusion here, let me try and assist;

If there is an outer marker for a FAF, then you may not continue the approach beyond this point if RVR is below minima.

If there is no outer marker (or equivalent), then you may not continue below 1000' AAL if the RVR is below minima.

It is a case of one or the other. For IRT purposes, you very often fly at airfields where no outer marker exists and so it is easy to see why it is not well known in the CPL training environment.

Cheers, MC