France selects CVF design for PA2

[Navaleye]

According to Richard Beedal (who is usually very well informed), France has now chosen the UK's CVF design as the basis for it's second carrier. This bodes well for the future our the UK project. More info here, (http://p216.ezboard.com/fwarships1discussionboardsfrm3.showMessage?topicID=4743.topi c) comments welcome.

[ORAC]

Operating rafale one would expect, at the least, the tailoring to include catapults and angled deck, and the deletion of the ski-ramp. There is also the issue of the podded propulsors top speed and suitability for CTOL operations, is this being changed? A change from electric/podded to a more conventional power train would seem a major design change.

Altering the baseline to accomodate such items would de-risk any future decision of the UK to go CTOL instead of STOVL. It depends just how much commonality there will actually be and what they mean as the "basis" for their second carrier.

[Navaleye]

'Mornin ORAC. I heard mention of 80% commonality between the two designs. Of course if the UK goes CTOL, then that number goes up to 95%+ :ok:

[ORAC]

12th Dec: PARIS (AFX) -

Thales and the shipyard DCN have been awarded a 20 mln eur contract by the French procurement agency DGA to proceed to the next design phase of the PA2 aircraft carrier programme, the two companies said in a joint press release.

Under the new contract, DCN and Thales will proceed with a preliminary design for tailoring the British CVF aircraft carrier to the needs of the French navy.

The companies said that the project will progress from the design phase to actual production in late 2006.

The PA2 joint venture, set up in June last year with the aim of leading the PA2 project from design to completion, is 35 pct held by Thales and 65 pct held by DCN.

[Jackonicko]

What's the commonality if the RN goes Typhoon-N or Rafale M.......?

:} :E :ok:

[Navaleye]

Jacko et all,

The Typhoon-N concept was investigated and ruled a total non-starter. Non F-35 options are Rafale or F/A18. I see no reason why the UK would sacrifice its investment in the F35.

[Roland Pulfrew]

Oh Great!

So a late and difficult procurement will now be slowed further whilst we negotiate with the French! The waters will be muddied further when the French start to redesign the design to meet their own unique requirements! Still just as well JCA is slipping to the right, the carriers might now be there to meet them!;)

[LowObservable]

"I see no reason why the UK would sacrifice its investment in the F35"

Apart from the fact that it would save a bomb on the carrier design and construction... and that Rafale or F-35C can bring Storm Shadow back to the boat, which F-35B can't... and that the only decisive advantage of the F-35B is manned first-day stealth with effectively the same warheads and precision as a pair of Storm Shadows ... and that in non-LO configuration with external stores the F-35 is slower, less agile and less well protected (no towed decoy, no active ECM) than a non-LO fighter... and that it will never carry six AAMs plus an A-G load... and that LO will be entertaining on the B model with all those big doors operating in a high-noise, hot, high-vibe environment...

Nosir no reasons at all

[Jackonicko]

and an aircraft with a unit production price that has already escalated to $100 m (or $110 m). That's almost as much as Typhoon. And almost none of it will flow back to the UK exchequer in tax. And it's an aircraft which the UK may not be allowed to upgrade, service and maintain. And it has no external ASRAAM so no lock before launch. And there are still some doubts about Meteor and Storm Shadow integration. And it would represent an entire new aircraft type, with commensurate extra logistics support costs.

"I see no reason why the UK would sacrifice its investment in the F35." Indeed! I can't see a single reason, either. There are many.

And while Typhoon N was ruled out of FCBA, all those years ago, my understanding is that paid study contracts for a non-JSF JCA plan B have been let, and at least one of these covers Typhoon N. It seems to be being ruled back in.

[SpinSpinSugar]

Reminds me of something I saw in Sunday's paper. Hang about... *rustle rustle*... ah yes, here it is.


By Tom McGhie

Washington's refusal to share technology with Britain over the Joint Strike Fighter is putting the £9bn project at risk and threatens to wreck Labour's defence strategy. The Ministry of Defence is already looking at the consequences of cancelling the fighter and investigating other options.

Fears have been growing that America will refuse to provide the software essential for arming and operating the aircraft. A source close to the project said: 'We have been arguing with the Americans for years about this. We have always imagined that they will change their mind, but there is now a horrible realisation that they will not give up their secrets on this one.'

'Without them, we will not be able to operate the plane independently or arm it with British weapons.'

The Joint Strike Fighter is being built by American giant Lockheed Martin. But Britain, which wants it to replace the Harrier jump jet, has contributed £2bn so far. The UK is planning to buy about 150 aircraft for about £9bn.

The MOD is infuriated because Britain has already given America top-secret technology that will allow the fighter to hover. If the UK cancels the project, there will be no immediate replacement aircraft to use on two new aircraft carriers being built for the Royal Navy by 2013.

Key members of the Bush administration and officials from Lockheed Martin are desperately keen that Britain and Australia be given access to the technology. But they are being blocked by one influential Congressman, 81-year old Illinois Republican Henry Hyde. He is refusing to give Britain support over concerns it might export technology secrets to nations America does not approve of.

Bruce George, former Commons defence committee chairman, said: 'We are America's closest ally, we are the biggest external buyer of the JSF, we helped save the project when it was in jeopardy - and we are treated like this.'

George added: 'We should start thinking about modifying the Eurofighter.'

[Tarnished]

Gosh Darn you Jacko, I've just written you chapter and verse on F-35 LBL AIM132 and when I tried to send it it says the recipient's mailbox is full, clean your act up man, you don't know what you're missing

[Navaleye]

More from John Reid. Here. (http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/rn/content.php3?page=1&article=985)

This is starting to get real....

[orca]

Not sure i agree that this will bring delays.

The French building French designs have always struck me as being expedient, with elegant results. I actually foresee the French, on the grounds that they have had the wisdom to pick ONE (in-service) aircraft operating from ONE design of CVF, will in all probability get it to sea and in service an age before our effort.