PFLs and private strips

[MadamBreakneck]

I've recently been involved in setting up a private strip for a microlight school. We've noticed that the presence of the strip seems to be a magnet for GA aircraft doing PFLs. A squint at G-INFO (yes, they come close enough for us to get the regies) shows them to be coming from schools at a variety of aerodromes in the area.

Two comments and a question:
1) from our observation of their approaches, they'd never make it into our field (it's a microlight strip, remember) without ending up in the ditch at the far end
2) they always seem to power away again over our main complainer's house which is hidden in some trees beyond our runway threshold (gee thanks)

Q: Why?

Madam B

[Say again s l o w l y]

Do yourself a favour and contact the CFI's at these schools. Explain the problem and ask that they don't continue to use your site as somewhere for PFL's.

Usually, many would assume that use of an airfield of any kind is less likely to lead to noise complaint problems and they also have no idea unless you tell them that such an issue may exist.

P.S. How short is your field? You'll be amazed how small a distance you need to get a light a/c down and stopped in if you do it right. If it's over 400m then it's no problem for anyone half competent in something like a cessna.
(May not be the same getting out again however!)

[Whopity]

When teaching a PFL its difficult for the FI and Student to identify the same field, consequently its not supprising that some FIs chose one that is easily identifiable. Much better to pick a large square field!

Additionally, they may assume that as its an airfield it will be OK. Is it notified to DAP for inclusion on the UK Charts?

There is no exemption from Rule 5 when flying an approach and go arround at an unlicensed aerodrome, only when landing or taking off. So they should not breach the 500 ft rule but; that applies equally to microlights as well!

[Genghis the Engineer]

I recall having a PFL sprung on me doing a currency check in a PA28 out of Thruxton once. I was at a good height and in sight of my microlight club (410m with a gap in the hedge and flat field at the other end), so I set up on long finals for it.

The group A instructor was rather surprised - it seems he didn't know it was there!


On the other hand, at the same strip we used to regularly get PFLs, missed approaches and even touch-and-goes, all by microlights from the same school a few miles away. They never asked for permission, and never paid a landing fee - which with restricted movements and noise sensitivities did nothing for inter-club relations. In the end we had to formally ask that school to stay at-least a mile from our runway unless they were landing on it - unfortunate and messy.


Anyhow, do let us know what comes out of any comms with the club CFIs Madam.B, would be interesting to know.

G

[Say again s l o w l y]

Group A, Genghis?
What would that be nowadays.....!:)

[Genghis the Engineer]

Bigger than D and smaller than B! :p

G

[MadamBreakneck]

Taking points in random order:
Say again s l o w l y:
Why should I or any other operator of a private farm strip have to ask the CFIs of schools to keep their aircraft away, please. Although a low approach and go araound is perfectly legal subject to 500ft rule, that doesn't make it any more courteous.

It doesn't matter how long or short my strip is, my reckoning from the ground is that these practice glide approaches would overshoot - ok, that's what practices are for.

Whopity:
My strip is in a field that is neither large nor square.

My own why?:
It may be good practice to glide approach onto prepared ground, but shouldn't the stdents learn that a strip of grass, even with a windsock, without PPR may be unsuitable. Do these people also set up approaches to the nearby golf course, I wonder? If I do a PFL with a student and they select an 'unsocial' field, I'll comment on its suitability for a real forced landing, but suggest that it isn't appropriate for a practice. Don't other instructors do similar?


Come on, guys, defend your practice.
Madam Breakneck

[Say again s l o w l y]

What utter rubbish Madam B,

I don't have to defend what I or any of my FI's do. If they are breaking the law that is one thing, but here I doubt they are. Courtesy works both ways.

If YOU have a problem, it is up to YOU to deal with it.
Personally I know all the sites used by microlights within an hours flying from my home base and know which we can use if required and which we can't. How did we achieve this? By talking and meeting up with others.

If you want to stop this practise then get off your ar*e and talk to the "offenders," why waste bandwidth if you aren't prepared to do anything.

The old maxim, put up or shut up seems to apply here.

Your reckoning about the short field performance of a light a/c is also flawed. How much experience do you have in these a/c? Have you ever tried to get one into a short field? Have you thought about holding a fly in for local clubs etc. to explain about your "problems"?

If your strip is longer than 400m, then most light a/c should be able to get in if flown correctly. Tell us where you are and some details of the runway and I'll tell you what's possible since you don't seem to have the answer.

Don't bleat about FI's and schools being discourteous, do yourself a favour and do something about it. Otherwise you're just whinging and that is just annoying.

I did in the past have an instructor who went off and practised approaches at a nearby microlight strip and used to do the same for PFL's. I didn't know, so I couldn't change anything, but the airfield was contacted by the strip's owner who asked that we ceased and desisted. I found out who it was and was very annoyed it was one of my chaps (one of the reasons he no longer works for us) so a flea in the ear worked and he never did it again.

According to the ANO if you are infringing on a notified airfield then you should let them know somehow, either by radio or PPR, it is poor airmanship to just make approaches of any kind to the same place without contacting the landowners or people who may be affected.
I vary the places where I make my students practise their PFL's, but there are one or two places I'll give them a failure near a strip to check on whether their field selection is any good. i.e. it's no good going for a muddy field if there is a massive disused airstrip just off to your right.

It is up to you as professional pilot (if you are one) to do all you can to try and limit the impact you and others have on your surroundings. If that means you have to ring a couple of grumpy s*ds and tell them to stop doing PFL's onto your strip, then so be it. Not exactly difficult is it.........

[Cathy Specific]

Madam B,

I have to agree with the suggestion to contact the local CFI if the situation is causing you problems.

Using strips for PFLs can be useful, particularly when demonstrating one. The strip can be pointed out by the instructor and as both parties are looking at the same field then you can both assess glide distance etc.

As to your comment about setting up final for a golf course, to right I do! If I give a student an engine failure then I would like them to set up for the most appropriate field, if thats a golf course then fine.

As to how far I let them continue the approach depends upon rule 5 and 'environmental impact'.

Oh I agree with SAS, just phone your local clubs and speak to them.....

[MadamBreakneck]

Your reckoning about the short field performance of a light a/c is also flawed.
Not necessarily - I don't think I said they couldn't get in, but that they wouldn't get in. I've watched some very nice short field approaches in my time, but I like to think I can judge (roughly) how an approach is progressing onto a field I know both from the air and the ground. OK, no probs, my students sometiimes misjudge height on PFL approaches too - that's one reason why we do them.

BTW. One reason I put this comment up in the first place was to gauge reaction and to get help anticipating what I might hear when I talk to said CFIs. If Say again s l o w l y is one of them, I'd better get myself ready for an earfull.:ouch:

I wondered if it was normal practice to contact a strip operator before using their field as a PFL destination - seems not.

Madam Breakneck

[Say again s l o w l y]

You wouldn't get an earful from me if you rang my club and asked us not continue a practise like that, but if I heard someone whinging about something we were doing and they hadn't bothered themselves to let me or anyone else know, then I'd be very annoyed.

We can't do anything to change procedures if we don't know they are wrong. Best practise says you should always try and contact people you may affect, and at my club we ususally do, but not everyone does. So take responsibility and try to fix it yourself and make your life easier.

We all have responsibilities in flying if we notice something awry, what if you had a student on first solo when some daft eejit in a spamcan decides to do a PFL onto the strip? If you'd done your best to stop this "habit" then you are clear, but if you hadn't an accident was caused, then you would have to take some of the blame for not fixing a problem you knew existed.

It sounds like I'm ranting but I'm not trying to be rude in anyway, I'm just pointing out that we all need to work together in aviation whether you fly Heli's, Microlight's, SEP (group A for Genghis!) 747's, glider's or even parachutes. So no "them and us" attitude, just a bit of mutual respect and clear communication.