Rumour: All probationary-year pilots at United to be "released" - not furloughed

[LAVDUMPER]

I am not attempting to scare anyone or increase alreay-hightened anxieties. Please do not misinterpret this posting...

I have a friend who is a United 737-300 FO in her probationary year (with just one week to go) - she has heard that UAL's Godwin either will announce or has announced that all probationary pilots at United will be "released" - with no furlough possibilities... That would be shocking and most distressing for her and the other 500+ pilots still flying in their probationary year.

After working hard and sweating-it-out for years and finally making it to a "major," getting axed like this would be extremely upsetting. Again - this is just a rumour with some substantiation.

Can anyone confirm this? Would this be happening at all US majors - probationary pilots axed?

Best of luck to all pilots involved - including my friend who now has to deal with a huge mortgage and MAYBE no reliable income...


Cheers

[The Guvnor]

This message from Jim Goodwin was sent to all employees at UAL. I'm sorry,LAVDUMPER but indeed all probationary employees are being 'released':

"I have been at United for 34 years. I have spent most of my adult life at this company - it is my life's work -- and this past week has been the most difficult we have experienced. With this first troubled week behind us, we now come to a point that is no less painful.

"I am sure it will come as no news to you that the consequences of the September 11 terrorist attack go far beyond that day and now threaten the financial health of our company and the entire airline industry.

"As we continue to focus our attention on assisting the families of our colleagues and the passengers who were victims of last Tuesday's tragic events, we must now turn our attention and our efforts to saving our company. In short, the future of our company is at risk.

"Our situation is as straightforward and severe as that.

"Consequently, we have no choice but to begin finalizing plans to reduce our workforce to keep it in balance with the requirements of our severely reduced flight schedule. As part of this process, we are today taking immediate steps to reduce the workforce by using all tools available to the company including the 'no work, no pay,' and/or furlough provisions of our collective-bargaining agreements with our unions. We are in the process of releasing our probationary employees, and we are investigating voluntary options, including early retirement. Those actions also will include management as well as non-represented, non-management employees.

"We also will begin to furlough and surplus approximately 20,000 employees. We will personally notify each employee and provide additional information on pay, benefits and other issues. Twenty-thousand is truly a staggering number, and I am overwhelmed by the impact this decision will have on the
people who have given so much of their lives and time to this company. I can't tell you how heavily this decision weighs on all of us.

"I sincerely hope these furloughs will be all that is necessary, but I cannot realistically make such a promise. It's too early to predict the strength of our traffic over the coming weeks and months. I will promise, however, that we will carry out these measures in the most compassionate and humane way possible.

"Finally, despite the terrific pressure we have all been under since September 11, I ask that you remain focused on the tasks at hand. I know this news will not make it any easier to do so, but if we are to survive as a company, we must continue to meet the challenge. I have faith in your skill and your ability to pull together to overcome any obstacle. You have shown your strength over the last week. I want to thank you and, finally, tell you what great pride I have in all of you."

[Airbubba]

Yep, they can do it at almost all union air carriers. Also, as discussed on another thread, "act of war" and "force majeure" clauses _may_ be invoked to invalidate other sections of the contracts dealing with job security and seniority.

If a pilot is furloughed, he or she retains a seven year right of recall with seniority. If they are released, there is apparently no right of recall. However, United has historically offered recall to pilots released in the past.


From the 2000 UAL-ALPA contract:

Section 6: Seniority
Period of Probation: 6-C

Pilots shall be on probation for the twelve (12) months of service as a pilot
employee of the Company (measured from the pilot's Pilot Longevity Date)
and having performed 165 days of work for the Company. Work in this
context, will include pilot duty, reserve availability, training, instruction,
special assignment and all other flight duties for which compensation is paid.
Nothing in this Agreement shall be construed to prevent the Company from
releasing a pilot during his period of probation regardless of his position on
the System Seniority List.

...

Section 1: Recognition, Scope and Career Security

General Furlough and Job Security Protection: 1-H

United Airlines Pilot Agreement

Furlough Protection

United Pilots who have completed their probationary period will not be
furloughed. Regardless of any other provision of the Agreement, the
Company may require a United Pilot who would have been furloughed but for
this paragraph to utilize his accrued unused vacation.

...

1-H-5 . Changed Circumstances

The following will govern the Company's obligations under this Section 1-H
in the event the Company experiences changed economic circumstances
beyond the Company's control:
...

1-H-5-d . Circumstances beyond the Company.s Control

In addition to the Company's ability to reduce flight operations under the
terms and conditions described in paragraph 1-H-5-a (Substantial
Economic Downturn) and 1-H-5-b (Reduction Limits) above, the
commitments and protections described in paragraph 1-H-1 (Furlough
Protection), 1-H-2 (Active Status Protection), 1-H-3 (Fleet Size
Guarantee), 1-H-4 (Block Hours Guarantee) and 1-H-5-c (Pay Protection)
above may be modified if and only to the extent that the Company
demonstrates that any such modification is a direct result of a
circumstance beyond the Company's control. The phrase "circumstance
beyond the Company's control" means only a natural disaster, a labor
dispute within the Company involving a cessation of work, the grounding
of a substantial number of Company Aircraft by a government agency, a
reduction in flight operations directly caused by a supplier's inability to
provide sufficient aircraft, fuel or other critical materials for the
Company's operations, revocation of the Company's operating
certificate(s), a declared or undeclared war emergency that causes the
Company to cease conducting a substantial portion of its flight
operations, compulsion by a domestic or foreign government agency, or
court or legislative action. For purposes of clarification, the phrase
"circumstance beyond the Company's control" does not include any
economic or financial considerations including, but not limited to, the
price of fuel, aircraft or other supplies, the cost of labor, the level of
revenues, the state of the economy, the financial state of the Company, or
the relative profitability or unprofitability of the Company's then-current
operations in the absence of the circumstances described in the
preceding sentence.

[GalleyWench]

Lavdumper, You are 100% correct that all probationary employees at UAL have been let go immediately. All were locked off the computer before being told and/or escorted off the company premises. What a nice way our "Uncle" Jim (Goodwin) chose to let those unfortunate people go while keeping his bonus. We are led by a real class act.......

[TowerDog]

How many probatinonary pilots does UAL have?
(Or had?)

Here at AA we have about 1200 guys still in their first year.

Could be mass slaughter if AA does the same thing..... :eek:

[Ignition Override]

Here at our US (all-jet) airline, at our smallest crewbase, two pilots were laid off today, during their IOE-really sad, and with no warning. The MEC met just yesterday with upper mgmt. I suspect that at the two large crewbases, this happened to many more today.
About 850 pilots will be gone by next spring, so there is some hope that early retirements (with no penalty, normally 2%/year before age 60) will prevent some pilots from getting cut. Most of us would accept a pay cut, however, management can't be trusted to use this to reduce furloughs, unless signed in an iron-clad contract side letter etc.

I had volunteered two days after the attacks to fly from Thur-Sun, but Crew Sched never called.

When will the public realize that it is safe to fly?

Junior pilots-good luck out there. At least the US regional turboprop and jet FOs won't lose any money, if they quickly find another job: they are already paid at about minimum wage and qualify for government food stamps if they have a wife and kids to support.

[BOING]

Intersting use of word "release". After keeping you in captivity for six months I am going to give you your freedom to do what you really want to do!

Good old Jim. How could such a jerk have kept such a low profile at United for thirty plus years that nobody suspected how pathetic he really was? He does not even have the guts or honesty to tell the truth in a transparent situation such as this. As a leader he is morally bankrupt.

Dubinsky is an arrogant, egotistical autocrat but at least he could LEAD United in these difficult times.

[Whoaaa]

Delta is also grinding their ax and the chopping of 400 pilots I believe will begin on Nov. 1st :(

[TowerDog]

The newswire yesterday said Delta planned to ax 1,700 pilots...?

AA has given notice to 386 pilots so far. More is to come.
Meh think the TWA pilots should not sleep too good these days. :eek:

[blueball]

Probably better to be released, they can get hired somewhere else without being forced to give up there #, and when the time comes they ought to be rehired. It's harder to find a job when people know you're on furlough.

[Oilhead]

While this specific forum is called "rumor" let me try to clarify out a couple of things written here.

First off, no pilot at United has been furloughed/released YET - we have been told some probationary pilots may be cut lose as soon as next week. All probationary employees (not just pilots) were locked out of the computers in a typical management over-zealous dress rehearsal for the big moment. The company and ALPA have just had their first meeting to discuss the financial condition of the company in regards to manpower reduction; the company simply doesn't know how many pilots it will furlough. ALPA is keen the numbers the company want to axe gel with teh financial state of the company. There was little substantive exchange at that first meeting according to the code a phone from Chairman Dubinsky. The company has indicated that probationary pilots will be "furloughed" rather than completely cut. I might add that it makes no financial sense whatsoever to sever the pilots completely - a lot of time, effort and money has gone into hiring these top quality people in the first place. If they choose to go and work elsewhere, all well and good. But they will have right of recall, until they resign their seniority. That is called protecting your investment, as well as any "humanitarian" gesture.

So far there is no agreement on how many pilots will be furloughed, or the dates of furlough. I expect it will be a trickle until training ramps up. It will be done strictly by seniority, and therefore there is a re-training element to this process. I.E. You can't cut lose 600 co-pilots/flight engineers unless there are trained replacements. (It is very expensive to furlough - there are other alternatives to explore first such as voluntary leaves of absence) It is unfortunately a different matter for the flight attendants, who of course are not tied to any particular plane). I have already flown with flight attendants who have received their notice of release. I cannot speak for the contracts of the AFA or IAM as to how furloughs/firings will be handled. I can certainly speak to our contract though.

So you can discuss "released" versus "furloughs" all you want, but (as of today - Friday lunchtime) the pilots will have the right to return, retaining their seniority number. All can change of course, but that would make no sense to handle it any other way. Mind you, we are run by highly questionable people at the moment. I am hoping these awful times will strengthen their abilities to manage effectively and humanely.

Also, the company has indicated it will transfer suitably qualified UAL pilots into BizJet.

Don't be too quick to take the writings of people like the "Guvnor" as gospel. I must observe that this person makes so many postings, I wonder how he has time to run a company, assuming he is a "Guvnor" - isn't that Brit Speak for a company boss?

[ 28 September 2001: Message edited by: Oilhead ]

[Oilhead]

Expect UA pilot furlough numbers to start being announced Monday or Tuesday.

[Airbubba]

Yep, it looks like the rumor about probationary pilots being released did not pan out.

See:
http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=015883

[Oilhead]

ALPA update - FYI


SPECIAL MEC UPDATE
Tuesday, October 2, 2001
By MEC Chairman Rick Dubinsky



* At about 8 p.m. CDT last night, Oct. 1, the company finally delivered a letter to ALPA outlining their plans for furloughs. The letter contained the following very minimal information:



· Flight Schedule has been reduced by 20%, which results in the need to furlough a substantial number of pilots.



· Effective Oct. 15, 2001, 100 probationary pilots will be furloughed; effective Oct. 31, 2001, an additional 475 pilots will be furloughed. New hires in training will be furloughed on or about Oct. 7, 2001. All furloughed pilots will have recall rights.



· At this time, no furloughs are planned for the month of December.



· As a result of the decision to permanently retire all B727 and B737-291 aircraft effective Oct. 31, 2001, all Second Officer positions will be eliminated and those pilots over age 60 or permanently bid-restricted to the Second Officer position will be provided the opportunity to competitively seek employment elsewhere in the company or retire.


Unfortunately, despite our request, the company has not provided ALPA with much in the way of underlying operational, fleet planning or financial data. Nonetheless, the MEC Negotiating Committee has begun to analyze and examine the information provided by the company so far so that we can formulate a response.



The company’s letter along with a cover letter outlining ALPA’s response to the company is scheduled to be sent to all pilots later this week.



Once again, please be reminded that official information to the United pilots will emanate from the MEC office through our usual communications methods, but only after verification of accuracy.