FAA instructors instructing JAA in the States?

[Icerman]

Hello,

I was wondering about instructor qualifications at American JAA approved flight school. Are they all only FAA rated and what’s their actual knowledge of JAA related stuff? I would like to hear how it is in different flight schools; Ormond, EFT, Orlando, Naples?

Thanks!
Icer

[IO540]

I know nothing about this but believe the American schools are CAA approved.

A real scream, since the FAA accepts ALL UK PPL training towards a standalone FAA PPL, without the UK school having to be FAA approved :O (and FAA flying is harder than JAA flying; there's extra stuff in there)

[Irv]

I think things have changed drastically over the past few years in this area. At one stage it was very tight, but now, a CFI at a JAA school can recognise the hours for any ICAO training as counting towards a JAA PPL course.

This allows someone to part-train abroad in another non-jaa country (eg: S.A., Oz) and providing it was for the ICAO PPL, these training hours can be recognised at a UK school and the JAA course completed there. (It used to be a maximum of 10 hours could be counted across to the 45). Why is this relevant? It allows the US JAA schools to employ FAA instructors with FAA only qualifications and then the school's CFI can 'recognise' the hours within his/her own school done by non-JAA instructors.

Some might say 'so what?' but I do know someone recently back from a Florida JAA school who was concerned that all his instructors knew about JAA was how to spell it, so they couldn't answer his questions on it. Some might say 'so what?', but he found this worrying as he wasn't sure if there was anything else they didn't know. And - he had a big turn over of instructors as the school were employing 'newbies' and then 'letting them go' for fairly minor reasons 'pour encourager les autres' knowing that there was a queue of newby FAA instructors wanting jobs and hours, 'pre-airline'.

[BritishGuy]

I am an FAA Instructor giving JAA instruction in the US. I know of many who are doing this at my school here in the US.

[unfazed]

Looking at the exams and hurdles one has to pass in order to qualify to be a JAA instructor it looks a lot more straightforward to qualify as an FAA instructor and then teach JAR students abroad.

[johnnypick]

This is the updated version of what is needed to instruct JAA students on an FAA CFI licence. The new part which is worrying, is section 8. From what I can see, it basically says, if you have ANY JAA licence, you have to then be a dual rated instructor to instruct JAA students in the States. If you only have FAA licences then you're ok. sorry this is a bit long winded, but it should answer this question.


TRAINING AND AUTHORISATION OF NON JAA FLIGHT INSTRUCTORS

SECTION 1 – GENERAL
This document lays down the requirements for authorisation of Non JAA FIs to enable them to instruct for the grant of a JAA Licence or Rating or the UK IMC Rating.

SECTION 2 – BASIC REQUIREMENTS
2. For the initial approval the following requirements must be met:
2.1 Hold a CPL issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1
2.2 Hold a FI rating issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1
2.3 Have flown a minimum of 15 hours on the relevant aircraft class in the 12 months preceding authorisation
2.4 Undergo in-house standardisation training, conducted by a suitably qualified and experienced FI holding a JAA licence and FI Rating, comprising a minimum of:
2.4.1 2 hours flight training
2.4.2 2 hours ground training
2.5 Pass a Skill Test in accordance with JAR-FCL 1.345 conducted by either:
2.5.1 The Head of Training/Chief Flight Instructor
2.5.2 Flight Instructor Examiner
2.5.3 Any other examiner acceptable to the Authority

SECTION 3 - REQUIREMENTS FOR NON JAA INSTRUCTORS TO INSTRUCT FOR THE UK IMC RATING
3.1 For the initial approval the following requirements must be met:
3.2 Hold authorisation to instruct for the JAA PPL by completion of the requirements listed above
3.3 Hold an instrument instruction qualification such as CFII or equivalent
3.4 Undergo in-house standardisation training, conducted by a suitably qualified and experienced FI holding a JAA licence and FI Rating
3.5 Pass a Skill Test in accordance with JAR-FCL 1.395 conducted by either:
3.5.1 The Head of Training/Chief Flight Instructor
3.5.2 Flight Instructor Examiner
3.5.3 Any other examiner acceptable to the Authority
SECTION 4 - RE-APPROVAL
4.1 Provide evidence of standardisation training in accordance with the FTO’s approved procedures and fulfil at least two of the following three requirements:
4.2 Complete at least 100 hours of flight instruction relating to the JAA PPL during the validity period of the approval, including at least 30 hours of flight instruction within the 12 months preceding the expiry date of the approval.
4.3 Attend a FI refresher seminar as approved by the Authority within the validity period of the approval
4.4 Pass, as a Proficiency Check, the Skill Test in accordance with JAR-FCL 1.345 within the 12 months preceding the expiry date of the approval, conducted by either:
4.4.2 The Head of Training
4.4.2 Flight Instructor Examiner
4.4.3 Any other examiner acceptable to the Authority

SECTION 5 - REQUIREMENTS OF NON JAA INSTRUCTORS TO INSTRUCT FOR JAA MEP CLASS RATING
5.1 For the initial approval the following requirements must be met:
5.2 Hold a CPL issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1
5.3 Hold a FI Rating, including ME privileges, issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1
5.4 Have flown a minimum of 30 hours as PIC in the relevant Class of aeroplane of which 10 hours must have been flown in the 12 months preceding authorisation
5.5 Undergo standardisation training, conducted by a suitably qualified and experienced FI holding a JAA licence and FI rating and authorisation to conduct multi-engine flight instructor courses, comprising a minimum of:
5.5.1 5 hours flight training
5.5.2 Sufficient ground training to ensure that the FI is competent to teach all parts of the JAA MEP theoretical knowledge syllabus
5.8 Training may be conducted either in house or at an FIC approved FTO.
5.9 Pass a Skill Test in accordance with JAR-FCL 1.380(a)(4) conducted by a Flight Instructor Examiner authorised by the CAA.

SECTION 6 - RE-APPROVAL
Provide evidence of standardisation training in accordance with the FTO’s approved procedures and pass, as a Proficiency Check, the Skill Test in accordance with JAR-FCL 1.380(a)(4) within the 12 months preceding the expiry date of the approval, conducted by a Flight Instructor Examiner authorised by the CAA.

SECTION 7 – APPL ICATION AND AUTHORISATION
Application for Authorisation should be submitted on SRG Form 1180 [Annex 1] available on the CAA web site. This should be submitted together with the standardisation training records and skill test report to Approvals Support. Approvals Support will issue an Authorisation document [Annex 2] which details the course on which the instructor can teach, the name of the school and expiry date of the authorisation. Instructors authorised in this way may not instruct in a JAA Member State, instruct for a FI rating, instruct for MCC. Instruction may only be given to students who have sufficient knowledge of the language in which the instruction is given.

SECTION 8 - HOLDERS OF A JAR-FCL LICENCE
FAA licensed and rated instructors who hold a JAR-FCL licence may not take advantage of the requirements above and should convert their FI rating by completion of the minimum requirements laid down in LASORS part H para H1.10. This includes the standard pre-course experience requirements followed by a minimum of 15 hours flight training and 30 hours ground training with a FIC Instructor at an Approved FTO before undertaking a test with a Flight Instructor Examiner. This will qualify the instructor to give instruction up to PPL(A) level. In order to instruct for the CPL, IMC/IR or MEP ratings the standard requirements for all JAR-FCL rated instructors apply.

[BillieBob]

a CFI at a JAA school can recognise the hours for any ICAO training as counting towards a JAA PPL course. This a popular misinterpretation of the UK CAA statement in LASORS that:

Any previous flying experience in single engine-piston (Land) aeroplanes gained during incomplete PPL(A) courses may be counted towards the 45 hour minima required for the grant of a JAR-FCL PPL(A), however the specific requirements under JAR-FCL (25 hours dual instruction and 10 hours supervised solo-flight time) must be completed in the state under whose authority the training and testing are carried out. (In certain circumstances training and testing carried out in another JAA Member State may be acceptable towards the issue of a JAR-FCL PPL(A)

and conveniently ignores the bit that says (see Important Note), probably because the 'editor' of LASORS forgot to include the 'important' note.

In fact, this easement is entirely at the discretion of the CAA, and not of the CFI (as a number of applicants have found to their cost) and may not be accepted by any other JAA member state as it is not in accordance with JAR-FCL.

Here is yet another example of the importance of referring to the source document (JAR-FCL) and not relying on LASORS, which is riddled with errors like this.

[Stjuk]

The school I am working for in Florida, a UK FTO, requires all instructors to hold both JAA and FAA liceces.

[johnnypick]

Stjuk, This is probably what the CAA want, but surely they're going about it in the wrong way. Stopping you instructing JAA students in the States if you have any JAA licences, is madness. Surely even if you only have a JAA PPL and an FAA CFI ticket, you're more qualified than someone with just an FAA CFI ticket to teach a JAA PPL.

[Whopity]

Training conducted for a JAA licence or rating conducted by non JAA instructors in a non JAA State is governed by App 1 to JAR-FCL 1.300.

That Appendix relates solely to Instructors not holding a JAA Licence. If you do hold a JAA Licence you have to meet all the requirements of JAR-FCL exacly the same as you would have to in a JAA State.

Technically, PPL Training should also be covered by App 1 to JAR-FCL 1.300 but was diluted following Industry lobbying.