QF order?

[viv]

All gone quiet. Any inside info?

[Keg]

Board decision on 7 December. You won't hear anything 'official' until after that date!

[Big Barrels]

Rumour I have heard is that the Airbus is back in favour. Apparently they are that cheap that the airline could not possibly knock back the offer, even though the Boeing specs may be a bit more attractive.

Personally I hope its Boeing, but not so sure now.

[Bazzamundi]

I will second the above. QF will be going French to some extent, but Boeing will also get a slice of the order, maybe not as much as what people may expect. From an accountant neighbour, the Bus is now close to the finish line on dollars, but Mr Boeing may make a late dash down the straight. However, it seems they will not discount as much now as they are not as desperate to sell their a/c as production is pretty full on due to several large recent orders. Airbus really want a large slice of this order as they are now way behind Boeing for the year.

Also, the Boeing fleet will take a lot more time to come. With the Bus, there isn't much of a wait on 340's at the moment compared to the tripler, and they could be here pretty quick (even though the 350's will be a bit longer, due to Boeing sales, none of the 787's could be ready for Qantas before the 350 anyhow). Not to mention Airbus is desperate to get some 340's down this way and some more 350 orders on the books (again $ will get some here).

Pure speculation from a financial person, but they have been close to the mark on more than one occassion. Time will tell.

Perhaps QF should have made the decision earlier in the year, and then the Boeings would have probably won hands down.

:\

[ur2]

What will be interesting is how much of that order will go to AA or JQ.

[Arsey Eight]

Sources tell me from inside the fortress, that what Bazza has said if fairly spot on. A handfull of 321's in silver are coming in '06. :ok:

[longreach]

Bazza,

you're not seriously telling us that QF are going to buy A340s, are you???
I would expect the 772LR is way more capable than the A345 and similarly the 773ER over the A346. I can see QF going for 787 and JQ for A350, however. I just wonder how big the JQ International order will be in the 1st place.
I also believe FJ's fleet renewal will be part of this order and Margaret Jackson confirmed on last weeks's Business Sunday, that the order could be well in excess of 100 aircraft(lots of options, obviously). Her comments in that interview mentioned aircraft for overflying hubs and more point-to-point routes. I think that is called "hub-busting".
I still expect this to be a majority Boeing order.

[Beer Can Dreaming]

Got to agree.

Why the hell would you purchase an A340 which has higher engineering and maintenance costs being a 4 engined transport as opposed to a B777?

Got to agree that the B777 is alot more capable than the A340.

[Orville]

I will tell you one thing for sure, there will be no new a/c going to AA. At the moment they will be lucky to still be around after the Christmas break.

[Mud Skipper]

Crystal Ball. :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:

Qantas mainline gets more A330s and some A340s possibly 350s later. Jetstar will get the 777s being 'built' at the moment, enough Emirates drivers (sick of the sand) will come back and fly them on cheaper rates, this also hurts that companies expansion plans as drivers flee - win win for Qantas. Might even force Emirates to start looking after their pilots a bit better?

Just as Jetstar got A320s vs 737s so as their operation was not too similar to Qantas 737 ops and a transmittion of buisness case was avoided. In this case Jetstar have to go for the Boeing 777 in preference to the A330 - it's worked before, why not try it again.
:sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :ugh:

Perhaps some of those new 744 types in the Com will pay more attention than in the past now it's all getting closer to home.:* :suspect:

[longreach]

Crystal Ball.

Qantas mainline gets more A330s and some A340s possibly 350s later. Jetstar will get the 777s being 'built' at the moment, enough Emirates drivers (sick of the sand) will come back and fly them on cheaper rates, this also hurts that companies expansion plans as drivers flee - win win for Qantas. Might even force Emirates to start looking after their pilots a bit better?


Makes no sense whatsoever. Do you subscibe to JQ operating the premium 772LR service to LHR??? We know that's ridiculous and we know that the 345 business model won't work on this route.

Just as Jetstar got A320s vs 737s so as their operation was not too similar to Qantas 737 ops and a transmittion of buisness case was avoided. In this case Jetstar have to go for the Boeing 777 in preference to the A330 - it's worked before, why not try it again.

Wouldn't it be far easier and more prudent to transfer A330s over to JQ and keep them as all-Airbus??? 330/350 to JQ and 777/787 to QF mainline would seem way more logical/preferable to me. 777s can be delivered to QF by 1st quarter 2007 is what I have heard. There seems no better 763 domestic replacement than the 787. The 350 is heavier than the 330, has been made for long haul flying, and surely QF won't risk the A350 domestic model after the stunning failure of the 330 on short haul trunk domestic sectors?

[Jetsbest]

Longreach, you had me right up 'til "surely QF won't risk the A350 domestic model after the stunning failure of the 330 on short haul trunk domestic sectors?"

My observation, backed up by non-verified anecdote & rumour is that the A330 is doing very nicely for QF in all its roles. What's your slant on that?

Cheers.

[Tickle Me Pink]

Very reliable source has it that Jetstar is about to expand exponentially with some serious new aircraft orders coming soon.
Better get out your B787 manuals boys and girls.

Geez I'm glad I am not a member of AIPA. Poor bastards just can't see the writing's on the wall can they?

Oh well!!

[Mud Skipper]

What stunning failure? 36 J seats 2 Perth/Melbourne/Sydney/Cairns always over the top + 100's of Y full.:confused: :confused: :confused:

[longreach]

What stunning failure? 36 J seats 2 Perth/Melbourne/Sydney/Cairns always over the top + 100's of Y full.

OK, I'll be more specific. The A330 model failed miserably on the SYD-MEL-BNE triangle, where frequency and turn around times were a vital consideration. Too long to load, too long to turn around.
PER/CNS routes aren't required to have the quick turn around times.

[Wanikiba_pilot]

Does anybody have an idea as to whether the route from Aus to Europe, eg SYD-LHR requires flight over the high MSA sectors in order to make it all the way to LHR? It could be argued the 777 looks like it will do the job, but, will maintaining the MSA on single engine be a factor to rule it out in favour of a A345/A346 which can hold a higher Alt with one engine inop?

Anyone know how the 777 travels on one eng? There doesn't seem to be any 777's doing the SIN - LHR or HKG - LHR etc at the moment, all aircraft seem to have 4 engines.

Thoughts? Thanks all...

WP.

[Vorsicht]

The 777 isn't doing SIN-LHR because it isnt a 14 hr aeroplane yet. The LR will be and it will have no problem with the safety heights.

[alangirvan]

The 777-300ER is used by Air France between Singapore and Paris, and will be used by AF on Paris to Hong Kong.
Singapore Airlines are using 777-200ERs on SIn to Amsterdam and some other Europeans cities. BA has used the 777-200ER between London and Kuala Lumpur.

[Feather #3]

W_P,

As the rules exist today, there are portions of the world where the big twins are hampered and a/c with >2 engines are required.

It's not necessarily the safety heights which are the problem. The ETOPS imposition of a combined engine failure/depressurisation event is what snookers them.

Thus [if MD-11 fans will forgive me], although the B777 family may be the twin of choice in this race, any serious world contender will have the B747-xx?? and A340 family in their arsenal to cover the ETOPS holes.

G'day ;)

[TAC On]

Vorsicht

Bollocks. 777.200's regularly fly RKSI- KATL and KJFK and return. 14-15+ hours.


Tac On

[Buckshot]

From memory UA operated AKL-LAX for a while with the 772ER - even had an engine failure and a long 3+ hour diversion on the one donk once...

[Bazzamundi]

My point was that even though the Boeing aircraft have a better match to Qantas needs, the Airbus is being offered at a price which is impossible to refuse. At the end of the day, if the aircraft cost so much less to finance, then QF will find a way of operating them that makes a greater profit.

I personally want to see the 777 and 787 arrive, however from my info it seems a reasonable chance that there will be more Buses than Boeings.

Just hope I am wrong.:ok:

[Taildragger67]

Not about to get embroiled in an A-vs.-B match (I have personal opinions and they'll stay that way), I do wonder if Southern Africa and South America ops direct Sydney figure at all? At 207 min ETOPS, the Great Circle mapper indicates that more than two engines would be required.

(hope this link works:)

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=YSSY-SAEZ%0D%0AYSSY-FAJS%0D%0AYSSY-FACT%0D%0A&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-UNITS=mi&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=&ETOPS=207

[akerosid]

But EZE has gone and JNB is a 744 route anyway, so it may not make that much of a difference. In any case, if Airbus is selected, I think it will be A350s, not A340s. Airbus has already said that the 345 can't do SYD-LHR.

That said, Airbus is certainly competing on price, with some reports of $85m for A350s, which - for an aircraft to be delivered about 5 yrs down the road, is peanuts; one might even suggest it's dumping and with the whole fracas over Airbus subsidies, that might be something which could fly back in Airbus's face. But leaving that thorny issue aside, there was an interesting broadside from Qantas's good friend, Mr. T Clark of Emirates, where he said that while the 350 looks very good on paper, the airline's recent experience of Airbus products - performance undershoots and delivery overshoots - caused them to hesitate and that could be the same for QF. Has QF's experience of Airbuses been that good; (in fairness, part of this is that the A332 was never operated in its major strength area - long haul).

With the 340 out of the running, I can still see 773ERs and -200LRs, but the big battle will be between the 787-9/10 and the A350-900; very aggressive pricing may help the 350, but QF still needs a domestic replacement for the 763, for which the 783/788 would be a far better fit.

Just under a fortnight to go ...

[relax737]

Tickle me Pink,

I sympathize with the QF pilots. It may be that they can't see the wirting on the wall, but it may be more like 89 when the pilots were outmanouvered by a deeper thinking tactician. And please guys no lengthy discourse on 89. The comment is not intended to provoke argument yet again on that era.

I hate to say it, but Dixon is clever, and will screw the pilots. If they want to work in Oz, then it's play by his rules. It may mean less money, but at least you live and work here, and from someone who has worked off shore for years, there's no place like home, and almost at any price.

I may even come back home and fly for Jetstar.

As Kerry Packer says, "He who has the gold makes the rules". It's a simple philosophy and one with which Dixon appears to be well familiar.

[bonez]

Orville

posted 26th November 2005 14:52

I will tell you one thing for sure, there will be no new a/c going to AA. At the moment they will be lucky to still be around after the Christmas break.



WRONG WRONG WRONG - just as well it is a rumour network

:cool: :cool:

[relax737]

So where are they going Orville??


You started it, so give us a tip.

[bonvol]

They are getting another 76 to commence double daily services Tokyo Cairns next year.

Qantas is withdrawing from the route.

[SMOC]

CX has just ordered 16 777-300ERs and options on 20 more, and they threw in 3 A330s for good measure.

http://www.cathaypacific.com/intl/aboutcx/press/0,,31342-132261,00.html