ATC Suspensions

[Lorin]

Why is it that only controllers are penalised in an incident when the pilots were also a contributing factor. Does your CAA tick off pilots for being a contributing factor in a ATC incident? Any experiences or suggestions? tq all for replies.
Also would like links that would help me to know how a proper suspension should be conducted.

[Nookie2nite]

Dunno bout the rest of you but this seems to be a thorn in many an atc's side. Recently an atc suspended, given counselling and week training beacause a pilot bust his level and received an RA...nothing as far as I know happened to the pilot.....wheres da justice????

N2n
:ugh:

[BEXIL160]

Closer to home, why are supervisors (LAS / GS in the UK Area set up) never suspended, nor do they get community service (retraining)?

It's often been the case the suspervisors were responsible for the mess that the poor Tactical ATCO found himself in when it all went wrong. Senior managers seem happy to see The ATCO as the "fall guy", but not the sup.

Rgds BEX

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I don't think it's a matter of "justice", just commonsense. If somebody working a very busy sector suddenly becomes aware of an inciden which they might have contributed to the result can be devastating - I know, I've been there. Even when one is utterly, 110% certain that it's someone else's fault you can be sure until the matter is investigated - and the investigation often throws up some unfortunate surprises! I am certain that the right course of action is to remove the controller temporarily from work; whether one calls that"suspension" is open to discussion. In my book it's a safety factor in the overall operation and gives the controller time to recover from what might have been a traumatic situation. Regarding pilots - I doubt if commercial pressures would allow them to be suspended after incidents, except major ones.

If you are a controller and are "suspended" don't take it badly, even if you are found to be at fault, and if one of your colleagues is suspended don't mutter and mumble; go and offer him/her some support because the biggest thing which gets hit if someone has a frightener is their personal pride.

[5milesbaby]

Having been on both sides of the spectrum (totally my fault/totally not my fault) being removed from the situation as an ATCO is certainly something I support as no matter what the circumstances you sit there and think "WHY"? Now in certain levels of traffic you can get away with this extra thought, but when its busy its definately NOT safe. Just being out on a break and talking about it can remove the incident from your mind and allow you to get back to some full on controlling having learnt a lesson along the way.

I agree Bex, supervisors should be held responsible for some of their actions but I doubt that'll be happenning in your or my career :mad:

[Barnaby the Bear]

I agree with HD and 5milesbaby. If an incident happens I feel its better to take the controller away, even if its for a debrief and cup of coffee. Regardless of fault.
Even a minor incident, which may have obviously not have been caused by the controllers actions, will usually cause he/she to start thinking 'what could i have done better..Did I do things correctly?... Its not the place to be doing that with traffic..:}

[DirtyPierre]

In Oz, any ATC related incident requires that the controller be "stood down" pending investigation. VCA (violation of controlled airspace) and TCAS RAs are the grey area where a controller may or may not be stood down.

Upon initial investigation it is determined if there is any ATC causal factors contributing to the incident. If so, the ATCs involved will be given a formal "Stand Down" notice.

Investigations in Brisbane and Melbourne Centres (we only have two for Oz) are done by our Quality and Assurance Section (The Toecutters). These small sections are staffed by ATCs on secondment who have been trained in Incident Investigation.

They will report on the causal factors relating to the incident and make recommendations. Our Training Section in conjunction with the Line Managers of the controllers affected will decide on a course of remmedial action. This action could be anything from a debriefing to the beginning of LOEQ (Loss of essential qualifications) type action. Usually it comes down to a period of retraining and a check.

The process is meant to be transparent and objective, but isn't always. Airservices Australia try to have a no blame culture in regard to incidents, but managers being what they are are often too quick to lay blame.

So thats how it's meant to happen here in Oz, and mostly it does.

[Tweety]

Ufortunately usually is a butt protection exercise from management

[Scott Voigt]

It changes from facility to facility in the US, but there are times where the controller is banged with an error, but the pilot is also written up for a pilot deviation and possible certificate action can take place. It depends on the error. We also have deals that are completely pilot errors and the controller keeps on working. As to the sups, we are having sups get days on the beach for errors now too.

regards

Scott

[Lorin]

Hi all, how long does it take to convene a board of inquiry? Are there any guidelenes available? How "long" is reasonable? Are there any provisions for the suspended controller to claim allowances lost although no fault was found in her. Eg Incident happened in say June 2005. Board convened only in August. Controller was found not guilty. It was pilots fault, but ATCer lost 3months alowance coz not rostered to work in operational position. Tks 4 der answers.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

In the UK at larger units R/T and radar tapes can be replayed fairly quickly (instantaneously at West Drayton from my experience). The Watch Manager can then make an instant decision as to whether the controller is responsible or innocent. If he is innocent he can be returned to work as soon as the Watch Manager and the controller himself feels fit to do so. If he is at fault the matter can also sometimes be cleared up quickly. In more complex cases it may take a while longer. However, the controller remains technically a watch-keeping controller and I never heard of anyone losing their shift allowance if they later returned to normal work.

[EastCoaster]

Having only recently been in that uncomfortable position, following an incident, I can definitely say that I wholly support the argument for the temporary withdrawal of the controller concerned from active duty.

In the short time immediately following the incident, as the adrenaline begins to subside and normal human insecurities and irrationalities set in, it is definitely not a safe place to be - no matter how serious or benign the incident might have been.
The fact remains - it was still an incident!!
It was one of those things that we've all trained for years to avoid, and that we've all discussed in the crew-room and during "social outings" with a mixture of dread and sympathy for the poor sod involved!

Speaking from personal experience, it's not just questions like: "what the hell's just happened?", or "have I done, or not done something, to contribute to that?", which cascade through the mind.
Also things like "what must have been going through those poor people's minds?"; "Holy Sh1t, another x hundred feet and ......"; and yes: "Oh my God, have I just seen the end of my career?"

If memory serves, I think it's called Shell-Shock in military parlance.

Now, can anybody honestly say that they would be happy for a person in that frame of mind to continue in an operational position?

In my opinion, time out-of-position is absolutely essential, immediately; and the assistance and support of colleagues and friends.
To quote HD:
"the biggest thing which gets hit if someone has a frightener is their personal pride."

Also their confidence and self-belief, and believe me, those aren't so easy to restore.

Whether or not the controller concerned is later found to have actually contributed to the incident (either by error or omission), to me is immaterial. The fact remains, that person has just been involved in what can only be a traumatic experience, and the travelling public deserve to have their safety invested in a person who is going to be wholly concentrated and fully capable, not distracted by self-doubt or recriminations.

[veloo maniam]

Dear Eastcoaster, I need to know how Controllers overcome these traumatic moments where u just stare at the ceiling and ask 'what if they had collided in mid-air?'. Any help available to the those who have just been told to take a break.

[EastCoaster]

Veloo,

Do whatever you have to. I am deadly serious!

Go for a 10km run, chain-smoke a carton of cigarettes, scream at the sky! Do whatever it takes to stop your nerves jangling and restore a sense of calm and balance. (I would stop short of anything that might involve self-harm though).

Whatever you do though, make sure you talk to somebody, anybody, about what you're going through. There is no better therapy, believe me.


And whatever you do, don't try to second-guess what might result from any possible investigation that may arise from the incident, that sort of thing won't do you any good.
I was full sure that I had just stared death in the face and that I would never work as a controller again, so convinced was I of the almost catastrophic nature of the incident in which I was involved. Luckily for me though, my management and the crew concerned took a different view. It happened only 3 weeks ago and already I've done my "community service", revalidated my ratings, and am back on shift!
Doomsday isn't necessarily so bleak!

My point: think positive, try to maintain your composure and not become hysterical/too emotional, and for God's sake, do not be too proud to accept a sympathetic ear or any help that might be on offer.

I feel your pain, and wish you the very best of luck ;)

[topdrop]

Couple of years ago I had a VFR after dark caught up in really crap weather. Pilot made it close to the field - nearly lost it a couple of times and eventually did lose it and crashed into the sea - 2 dead. Firies eventually pulled half a body from the water.
My supervisor immediately organised professional counselling for all the Approach and Tower controllers involved. The firies received their counselling about midnight (when they gave up searching for the night).
All I can say is that I (and I believe all the others) found this counselling to be a great help and really appreciated the assistance provided by our employer.

[London Mil]

We lost a couple at out unit last week. As HD says, the 'tapes' can be analysed almost instantaneously and management can make a reasoned decision about an immediate course of action. IMHO, it is not a decision that is taken lightly and the process is never 'black and white'. First and foremost we should consider safety (something all controllers respect/expect) and then we must consider the best way to maintain safety. Often, a controller will have recognised an error, learnt a lesson and changed their performance in such a manner that a suspension is not necessary. However, if a controller has caused/contributed towards an incident and it appears that there is a fundamental lack of appreciation/procedural weakness, then I think we all agree that a period of re-training may be necessary. Pride, of course, is a major issue and we all have to be aware that the controllers concerned will already be putting themseves under an immense amount of pressure.

Finally, I personally wouldn't want to compare ourselves with other sides of the aviation industry - we're not lemmings.

[Lorin]

Guys tks 4der help but what I dont understand is the unprofessional way an inquiry is held. the management always goes for der controllers neck. the scar caused by the board seems to be worse than der incident. during the investigation the controller is blasted for not following procedures. only your fellow colleagues give u encouraging words.they are the only ones u can depend on to receive counsel. I am impressed at how Eastcoaster gives his support to veloo maniam. some countries are blessed with counsellors for controllers but we dont have that kind of privelege. I like what topdrops Supervisor did. tq all.will begin to look up and get back my ratings.

[Scott Voigt]

In the US the union (NATCA) has a critical incident stress team that goes to the facility to help the controller if need be. For most operational errors they are not needed as most of them are not serious in nature, but if you have a close one or an accident that you have witnessed. We have professional help for the controller.

regards

Scott H. Voigt
NATCA Southwest Region
Safety and Technology Chairman

[DirtyPierre]

Scott,

We have something similiar in Oz.

We have a group of controllers who work as a Peer Support Group, providing initial support for any controller involved in an incident.

We also have contracted pyschologists. Controllers are referred to them for the professional help they might need.

Both the Peer Support Group and the contracted psychs deal not only with incidents, but any matters relating to a controller's working or home life (eg. death in the family, marital problems, health issues, dealing with stress, etc.).