Virgin to go green?

[sstaurus]

I stumbled on this recent but intriguing article about Richard Branson's plan to eventually convert the Virgin fleet to ethanol from plant matter. I hadn't heard about this method yet, and didn't know how feasible it was, but he seems to see it as the 'fuel of the future'.

(I did a quick search and this doesn't appear to have already been posted)

Anyone know anything or heard more about this?

Anyway, here is the article, posted from this link:
http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/33519/story.htm

------------------------

DUBAI - Tired of skyrocketing jet fuel prices, Virgin Atlantic Airways boss Richard Branson said on Wednesday he plans to turn his back on hydrocarbons and use plant waste to power his fleet.


"We are looking for alternative fuel sources. We are going to start building cellulosic ethanol plants (to make) fuel that is derived from the waste product of the plant," he told Reuters in an interview in the oil-rich United Arab Emirates (UAE).

"It is 100 percent environmentally friendly and I believe it's the future of fuel, and over the next 20 or 30 years I think it actually will replace the conventional fuel that you get out of the ground."

Branson did not say where Virgin would build his factories or how economically viable cellulosic ethanol would prove. "We are in the early days," he admitted.

He said cellulosic ethanol "is the biproduct you get from the waste product (of plants), the bits in the field that get burned up," as opposed to ethanol which is produced from fruit or corn for example.

Branson was in Dubai, a booming trade and tourism hub in the UAE, to promote a daily service between London and Dubai that Virgin plans to launch in March 2006.

He also said two Gulf Arab rulers had asked him to set up Virgin space flights in their countries, but gave no detail.

The ethanol idea is part of Branson's broader plans to cut Virgin's fuel bill. In September, he said he was looking at building a conventional oil refinery in a bid to ease a global shortage of refined fuel, including jet fuel.


GOING GREEN

In early September, Virgin raised its fuel surcharge on tickets sold in Britain to 30 pounds ($55.4) after oil prices touched $70 per barrel in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. Price have since retreated to below $60 per barrel.

Branson's Virgin Group has a 51 percent stake in Virgin Atlantic as well as interests in Virgin Cargo, Virgin Nigeria and Australia's Virgin Blue. He said the combined fleet was almost 100 aircraft.

"We use around 700 million gallons of fuel a year between the four airlines. I hope that over the next 5 to 6 years we can replace some or all of that (with ethanol)."

Branson said the launch of the Dubai flight would pave the way for more Virgin brands to enter the Gulf Arab states, which are witnessing an economic boom on the back of high oil prices.

"I'm sure Virgin will expand into some other areas. Hotels is certainly the vision that we are exploring, if we can find the right site...Financial services is certainly a possibility."

Branson opened a Virgin Megastore outlet in Dubai on Wednesday but he ruled out a move into cellphones in the region.

Virgin Atlantic will compete against Emirates airline on the London-Dubai route.

Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed al-Maktoum, chairman of Emirates, is also head of Dubai's civil aviation authority, but Branson dismissed suggestions that Emirates had an unfair edge.

"I think Dubai is one of the most open, pro-competitive countries there is. We didn't have to ask for permission to come here, they just let us come and compete," Branson said.

"This region is expanding rapidly. My belief is that Emirates in 50 years time will be around, I think Virgin Atlantic will be around, let's see about the others," he said when asked about state-owned Qatar Airways and Abu Dhabi's Etihad Airways.


Story by Richard Dean


REUTERS NEWS SERVICE

-----------------------------------

[Swedish Steve]

On a different tangent, when we geta reply from a fuel expert, something that I have been wondering over.
In Sweden there is an alternative diesel called RME, which comes from rapseed oil. As diesel cars will run on kerosine, can RME be refined to run jet engines?
I am sure there is a simple reason why not.
Also in Sweden we have many cars that run on ethanol85, a mix of 85% ethanol and 15%petrol. Nearly all Ford Focus and many Saabs. But the drawback is that ethanol does not vapourise below -5degC, so your car doesn't start in the winter. You get round this with a heater for the engine which plugs in the mains, but if you are away from home, you are snookered.

[bear11]

Well, you can replace or part-replace gasoline with ethanol, and diesel with rapeseed oil (or even modified used chip oil), but would it work as a replacement for Avgas?

The Brazilians have been using gasohol (or bioethanol or whatever else you want to call it) for years to help their balance of payments - they get 4 crops per year of sugar cane, and you can ferment alcohol from anything with sugar in it. Cellulosic ethanol would come from plant waste, which you could make sugar from if you broke down the higher chain starches and cellulose into simpler sugars, presumably by heat and/or enzymes - it strikes me as a lot of messing around to produce large quantities of fuel, just that it sounds better to Richard.

Ethanol is a more efficient fuel than gasoline - it has a higer octane level, and lower emissions, and you can mix it in varying levels with gasoline or use it neat, with minimal changes to a typical gasoline engine, especially newer ones with fuel injection and good ECUs. It has the odd drawback as Steve points out, but as an organic replacement for gasoline it's very good. The problem here in the EU is that every politician and farmer thinks we'd turn the wine lake or oversubsidised sugar beet into ethanol for transport, but that would be ridiculously expensive.

I suspect that Embraer might have some answers as to whether ethanol or mixes of it with avgas may work in turbine engines! You would need an engine which could run on anything from 100% avgas to 100% ethanol depending on availability, though.

[Nerik]

Tha major problem with this fuel is that the amount of energy needed to produce it means that the benefits of such a fuel are reduced. It takes a hell of a lot of plant matter to produce a sizeable amount and if the processes are not good enough it is a near energy negative situation. It is not the long term solution.

[cwatters]

Ethanol might not be the answer...

http://alt-e.********.com/2005/07/alternative-fuel-ethanol-fuel.html

Quote:
... making ethanol from corn requires 29 percent more fossil energy than the ethanol fuel itself actually contains.

[mattz275]

While not being as well versed as some of you in this field i do know Shell have been studying so called bio-fuels for some time now as a petrol additive, to envisage this in an aviation fuel though i think is still a little far away!

Although the rather controversial letters in flight recently could upset the balance that is currently in favour of the automobile! I would be interested if anyone has an idea how such a fuel would be regulated and maintained to a suitable quality?

As for using it as a subsitute for power production over fossil fuels there are 3 power stations all be it limited to around the 100Mw level constructed or being constructed in the UK and as i understand it a number in locations on the continent. Just an interest post really please don't tear me to pieces asking for information on my sources!

[ExSimGuy]

Isn't Ethanol just a tad more volatile than Gasoline? And even more so compared with Jet A1? :(

Maybe some very serious thought would have to go into re-design of aircraft tanks before the safety aspect would allow it to be used in airliners :uhoh:

[Driver (airframe)]

If I've done my maths right, 19 acres of sugar cane will produce the 700 kgs of taxi fuel for an A340-300. http://dnr.louisiana.gov/sec/execdiv/techasmt/alternative_fuels/ethanol/fuel_alcohol_1987/008.htm[/URL] That can't be right?

[cwatters]

Another site calls Ethanol... "Unsustainable Subsidized Food Burning"

http://healthandenergy.com/ethanol.htm

"70 percent more energy is required to produce ethanol than the energy that actually is in it."

"An acre of U.S. corn yields about 7,110 pounds of corn for processing into 328 gallons of ethanol. But planting, growing and harvesting that much corn requires about 140 gallons of fossil fuels and costs $347 per acre, according to Pimentel’s analysis. Thus, even before corn is converted to ethanol, the feedstock costs $1.05 per gallon of ethanol.

The energy economics get worse at the processing plants, where the grain is crushed and fermented. As many as three distillation steps are needed to separate the 8 percent ethanol from the 92 percent water. Additional treatment and energy are required to produce the 99.8 percent pure ethanol for mixing with gasoline. o Adding up the energy costs of corn production and its conversion to ethanol, 131,000 BTUs are needed to make 1 gallon of ethanol. One gallon of ethanol has an energy value of only 77,000 BTU. "Put another way", Pimentel says, "about 70 percent more energy is required to produce ethanol than the energy that actually is in ethanol. Every time you make 1 gallon of ethanol, there is a net energy loss of 54,000 BTU". "

[Scottie]

So precisely what is the long term viability of aviation!??

[Just wonderin']

I would hesitate to call myself a fuels expert, but I do know something about the area. There are some practical issues surrounding aviation fuel. A gas turbine engine per se is very catholic in its tastes, they will run on almost anything you care to put in them, but the problem comes when you want to go up in the air... the reason Jet A1 is special is that it is a narrow 'cut' (distillation range), therefore stuff doesn't crystallise out at low temperatures, nor does it degrade and gum up the works when heated for a while, both of which can happen during a flight. So being able to run the engine at ground level is a bit different to running it at altitude.

Next up is energy density. I haven't done the sums, but ethanol will certainly not have the same energy density as Jet A1, therefore you'll be limited on range when the tank is full compared to your current evelope, you just won't be able to go as far - it's all about breaking carbon-carbon and carbon-hydrogen bonds and there just aren't as many in ethanol as there are in kero.

In addition, even in those countries which do put ethanol into their gasoline thereare technnical issues such as water absorption, and corrosion of the engine to consider, all of which limit the quantity you can put in. (altitude problem again, you really do not want water freezing in your fuel mid-flight!)

Mr Beardie is nobody's fool, and perhaps there are opportunities for extending the envelope of materials useable for aviation fuels, but don't for one second think that this has escaped the attention of the oil companies... most of the majors are re-branding themselves as energy, rather than oil companies and are diversifying into other sources of energy. If there was a realistic (and let's face it cheaper) alternative you can bet your last cent that the opportunity will have been explored already. If it ain't happening it's not because the oil companies are wedded to oil, most of them process way more than they produce and have to buy the rest - the economics don't stack up.

Finally, there is generally a net benefit in using biofuels in respectof greenhouse emissions, and some of the biofuels available now do not come from food sources, but from waste cellulose (stalks and the like), but at the moment there is simply not enough arable land to replace good old fashioned fossil fuels. However, I look forward to a cleaner, greener world the same as most. A phrase I particularly like is that the stone age didn't end because they ran out of stones, and the oil age won't end as a result of running out of oil - something better (and cheaper) will surface eventually...

that's the end of my rant!