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FlyingForFun
18th Nov 2005, 19:54
I seem to recall reading somewhere about a legal requirement to have a certain amount of reserve fuel, but I can't find it anywhere. The numbers I've got in my head are 30 minutes for VFR or 45 minutes for IFR.

The closest I can find to anything like this is in JAR OPS, which does not apply to private flights - so have I got it wrong? Is there no legal minimum for private flights?

Can anyone either point me to the relevant reference, or tell me that I'm wrong and that this is not a legal requirement?

Thanks!

FFF
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foxmoth
18th Nov 2005, 20:29
I don't thinkthere is any legal requirement for private flights, and most people if anything go over the top - but the only valid reason I have heard for running out of fuel is bullet holes.:uhoh:

Genghis the Engineer
18th Nov 2005, 21:33
I recall the last leg of a long flight once being over water, during that water crossing the wind shifted markedly (and badly out of the values forecast), and I landed with about 10 minutes worth of fuel remaining - after a plan allowing for about 45 minutes.

As it happens, it was no drama, but just occasionally these things happen.

G

Final 3 Greens
19th Nov 2005, 06:12
During my PPL. , my instructor certainly mentioned 30 and 45 minutes in the context of VFR and IFR flights, but I don't remember these being presented as legal limits, they were recommendations. And I seem to recall that he said he'd like an hour when IFR, as a personal opinon.

Perhaps the 30 and 45 were recommendations in the FI syllabus? NO doubt an FI will comment in due course.

Personally, I would always be happy to carry the max amount of fuel the aircraft would take without going overweight, not so much going over the top as utlising the capability of the aircraft and bearing in mind that fuel in the bowser is of little use when airborne, i.e. fuel offers options for changes of plan.

bookworm
19th Nov 2005, 07:26
I seem to recall reading somewhere about a legal requirement to have a certain amount of reserve fuel,

ANO 2005 simply requires that
sufficient fuel, oil and engine coolant (if required) are carried for the intended flight, and that a safe margin has been allowed for contingencies,


ICAO Annex 6 (applicable to international GA) says
4.8 Fuel and oil supply
4.8.1 A flight shall not be commenced unless, taking into
account both the meteorological conditions and any delays that
are expected in flight, the aeroplane carries sufficient fuel and
oil to ensure that it can safely complete the flight, and, as
applicable, the following special provisions are complied with:
4.8.1.1 Flight in accordance with the instrument flight
rules. At least sufficient fuel and oil shall be carried to allow
the aeroplane:
a) when, in accordance with the exception contained in
4.6.2.2, a destination alternate aerodrome is not
required, to fly to the aerodrome to which the flight is
planned and thereafter for a period of 45 minutes; or
b) when a destination alternate aerodrome is required, to
fly to the aerodrome to which the flight is planned, thence
to an alternate aerodrome, and thereafter for a period of
45 minutes.
Note.— Nothing in 4.8 precludes amendment of a flight
plan in flight in order to re-plan the flight to another
aerodrome, provided that the requirements of 4.8 can be
complied with from the point where the flight is re-planned.

Then the FARs (applicable in the US and to N-reg) have the explicit 30/45 min requirements:

Sec. 91.151 Fuel requirements for flight in VFR conditions.

(a) No person may begin a flight in an airplane under VFR conditions
unless (considering wind and forecast weather conditions) there is
enough fuel to fly to the first point of intended landing and, assuming
normal cruising speed--
(1) During the day, to fly after that for at least 30 minutes; or
(2) At night, to fly after that for at least 45 minutes.

Sec. 91.167 Fuel requirements for flight in IFR conditions.

(a) No person may operate a civil aircraft in IFR conditions unless
it carries enough fuel (considering weather reports and forecasts and
weather conditions) to--
(1) Complete the flight to the first airport of intended landing;
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, fly from
that airport to the alternate airport; and
(3) Fly after that for 45 minutes at normal cruising speed or, ...
[exceptions follow]

FlyingForFun
19th Nov 2005, 08:12
Ah, Bookworm, I knew I could rely on you! The FAA regs sound remarkably like what I was thinking of. But thanks to everyone for confirming that there is no legal requirement for private flights within the UK. Of course I agree with everyone that there is no valid reason for running out of fuel except bullet holes.

FFF
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stue
19th Nov 2005, 16:40
I remember my instructor recomending at least 30mins:)
weather looks good for tomorrow night, hopefully, ill get it finished dean!:)

See you tomorrow!:D

IO540
19th Nov 2005, 17:02
30 mins is cutting it VERY CLOSE.

If a runway is closed due to a crash, one can usually divert somewhere within 30 mins flying time.

If (much more likely) one gets caught by unforecast weather, 30 mins isn't likely to be much good. Unless it's just a bit of local fog.

But, common PPL (training scene) practices make such reserves a complete farce. The best one I was taught is relying on the paperwork for the endurance. I used to have "disagreements" with the CFI over insisting that I fill right up. In the end, both schools I trained in (UK PPL) ended up with multiple planes going down; one of them into a house. Has anything changed in procedures? No.

There are also many places in Europe where limited avgas availability means anything less than 3hrs is no good :O

stue
19th Nov 2005, 17:15
IO540,
Dont get me wrong, i always fill up. im a newish PPL and am always shi:mad: :mad: ing myself of running out of fuel. there is no way that i would cut it that close, it just aint worth it. Id rather have extra fuel and carry a little less baggage, after all, without the fuel, your FUBARD

Gertrude the Wombat
19th Nov 2005, 18:51
Place I hire from I check the paperwork and the gauges and dip the tanks. If all three don't agree that I've got an hour reserve I fill up. To full tanks. In East Anglia, where you're never more than ten minutes from a runway and can land on pretty well every field.

All I've ever heard from an instructor is "good decision", even when there was almost certainly more than enough fuel in the first place.

If I ever found "disagreements" with the CFI over insisting that I fill right up I'd fly somewhere else instead, simple as that.

hollywood285
19th Nov 2005, 21:53
If your up for that long its your bladder I would be worrying about, the old saying goes, the only time you have too much fuel on board is if your on fire!!

If the 3/4 hours range on most GA aircraft is not enough land have a brew and pick up more fuel!

Final 3 Greens
20th Nov 2005, 06:30
Of course, the other aspect about making fuel reserve assumptions is the risk of a systems malfunction.

I heard of one case where a Cherokee pilot went to switch from the left to the right tank (or vice versa, its not important) and the fuel selector sheared off!

Or you could have a fuel line blockage one side etc.

Now its also possible that a passing asteroid could have your tail off :} , one shouldn't be silly about factoring things in, but its just another reason why I always felt more comfortable with more, rather than less, fuel on each side.

A and C
20th Nov 2005, 07:41
I reguarly fly trips of about 5 hours and fuel management is critical to the safe compleation of the flight , knowing the exact fuel consumption of the particular aircraft that you are flying is vital if you are going to fly down to the last 30 min of fuel.

You have to set the engine for the known fuel flow and maintain that setting, changing of tanks to maintain the balance of the aircraft is vital as this cuts down on the trim drag.

Changes of fuel tank should be logged by time as the clock is the best fuel flow indicator that you have and there should be no doubt as to the location of the last 30 min of fuel !.

Consider "aft loading" the aircraft because the closer to the aft C of G limit the aircraft is the less trim drag you will have.

Try to climb as high as you can as the TAS wil increase with altitude and may well ofset the head wind , the other thing with flying between 6 & 10,000 ft is that in most of Europe a lot of direct tracks are avalable when crossing controled airspace and this saves a lot of fuel not having to fly around control zones.

Have a clear picture of what you are going to do if you run into un-forcast headwinds and have a plan for on route diversion, this is first a safety issue but for insance an early diversion into Jersey would save a lot of nail biteing over a late diversion into Nantes as well as a lot of money.

Manage your fuel tank changes as best you can to not select a "new" tank at a critical time , 50 miles south of Southampton is not the time to find out that the fuel in the right tank in contaminated and there is only fumes in the left tank.

The most impotant thing is the one most often forgotten PRIOR TO DEPARTUE CHECK THE TANKS YOURSELF , there is no substitute for checking in the tanks with a dipstick, readings from the bowser and calculations of other pilots who have flown the aircraft are not good enough CHECK IT YOURSELF.