Changes to VHF comms procedures in the UK

[chevvron]

UK CAA have issued warning that wef 1 May 06, VHF frequencies will be referred to in RTF exchanges by ALL 6 digits, even where the last digit is zero; thios is to comply with an ICAO requirement which comes into force on 24 Nov 05. An exception is where the last TWO digits are zero ie 100kz spaced frequencies. At the same time, use of the word 'channel' to indicate an 8.33khz freq. will cease.

[Alex Whittingham]

Thanks. I don't see it in the AICs. Do you have a reference?

[the_hawk]

same goes for Germany (NfL I 258/05)

[OpenCirrus619]

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/ATS078.PDF

[chevvron]

I don't think an AIC has been publshed yet, but it's on an ATSIN (Air Traffic Services Information Notice) no 78.

[Max Angle]

About time really, we've been looking at say "118.825" for years and years but ATC always say 118.82. Hopefully means we can drop the meaningless "channel" prefix as well. It's a real shame that ICAO didn't grasp the nettle years ago and change to channel numbers rather than frequencies, it would have been much easier and as just about every airline radio was replaced when the new splits came in it would have been possbile to do with enough notice and planning.

[EGBKFLYER]

It's a disaster. What are the JAA going to do with the million variations of the 'channel' question used in the ATPL Comms exam now?

[threemiles]

I feel 6 months for a training to speak out one additional number ("five" or "zero") and to omit the word "channel" is quite a good preparation....
Taking into account that other countries have implemented the standard in the meantime, pilots expect it, and confusion may arise, is another subject...

[frostbite]

A very small number of aircraft I have heard have been using FM transmitters.

Is this a planned change, or just an oddity?

[Lower the Nose!]

Does this mean US pilots will no longer be giving readbacks like "eighteen eighty-two, see ya"?

[chevvron]

The way it was told to me, as the USA does not use any 8.33kz frequencies, you are exempt from compliance!

[Blighty Pilot]

Whilst on the subject of radio comms I have noticed that some people have there own way of doing things on the radio. When I was going through my ATPL's IFR comms was drilled into us and especially how radio comms should be kept to a minimum (especially in airspace such as London). Perhaps a controller can correct me if I am wrong but the way I understand it is for example: If you are joining London airspace from the French direction and the clearance is descend when ready FL190 by AVANT and this clearance is read back as such there is NO requirement to state when leaving your cruising level and commencing your decent.

In the same sense there is NO requirement to announce when reaching an intermediate cruising level or your final assigned cruising level.

I'm guessing if you are held at an intermediate cruising level for a period of time and there is obviously no conflict - a prompt to the controller doesn't do any harm.

As I understand it the Mode S transponder is a powerful bit of kit and the controllers are more than aware of what we are doing - let’s face it the big picture is right there in front of them.

:8 :confused:

[chevvron]

Mode S transponders might eventually let controllers see what you are doing, but until they are equipped with the necessary new radar displays, they won't! Present displays do not have the software/processing capacity necessary for displaying mode S info. The new 'toy' available from Transair is no good because it ONLY shows mode S, it does NOT show returns from ordinary Mode A/C transponders.

[Airbubba]

>>Does this mean US pilots will no longer be giving readbacks like "eighteen eighty-two, see ya"?

We never did figure out them foreign R/T procedures with all the channels and whatnot. Our CB radio has channels but that don't seem to help much. And Lord help us if we have to call out a flight level below 180, it just ain't natural.

Please keep 121.5 clear for us, we need the ride reports and baseball scores.

Why, we're just a bunch of country boys tryin' to make a livin'...

[pilotesam]

To the person who asked about PPL ground exams with ref. to the new phraseology. I e-mailed the person concerned at the CAA and got this reply.

''I have checked with the person who deals with the PPL ground examination and
he confirms that the forthcoming change to phraseology will not effect the
questions. As far as the RTF training and examination goes, the exams are
based upon CAP413. Because we will not be changing the phraseology in the
UK until 1st May 2006, CAP 413 will not change before then with regard to
how frequencies are given.
Hope this helps.

Best of luck with your PPL training. Enjoy!

CNS/ATM Specialist
ATSSD ''

:}

[Gonzo]

Perhaps now there's a case for dropping the first 'one' from the frequencies/channels. Seems superfluous as every VHF freq has one at the beginning!

[Aluminium Importer]

Chevvron,

Terminal Control at West Drayton currently has the technology available to display both Mode A/C and Mode S data on our radar screens.

In fact, controllers at TC will start to use this technology 'for real' within the next fortnight!

Big Brother is watching! :E

AI

[DoNotFeed]

The loss of the term channel does not really hurt - we may spit the numbers in the right sequence - hopefully they do not intrduce another split down to 4.165 as here we really have to listen

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<A very small number of aircraft I have heard have been using FM transmitters.>>

But not for ATC communications.. I'd be interested to hear further on this please??

[chevvron]

Aluminium importer;
I recognise that some of the 'richer' units mihgt have the necessary, but until

For some reason I was interrupted!
...Until everyone has it, it wont be much use.

[OzExpat]

Hey Bubba

And Lord help us if we have to call out a flight level below 180, it just ain't natural.
We don't call flight levels below 210. :p
Sorry for the short thread hijack... :}

[His dudeness]

Quote:
Perhaps now there's a case for dropping the first 'one' from the frequencies/channels. Seems superfluous as every VHF freq has one at the beginning!


Exactly what I tried to advocate when 833 was put into service. Neither German ATC (DFS) nor Eurocontrol bothered to answer...