Low flying??

[Kanu]

Are there places in the UK that flight below 500' could be done? Also, would flying down a valley below 500' above terrain be in breach of Rule 5? (meaning possible ramblers that you hadn't noticed)

please don't flame me, just a query

[markflyer6580]

Flight below 500ft could be done according to the rule: not closer than 500ft to any structure,vessel or person(something like that!),so pretty much anywhere If you are brave,you could in theory fly down an estuary away from bridges and boats at 5ft amsl.Not much time if you have an engine faliure though!
As for ramblers,they have to get the reg first and since they will probably be too busy shouting at someone like me on a mountain bike they probably wont notice!
I have done pfl's down to about 20ft agl taking advantage of the rules,after all if you don't go down to the ground you never know if you would make it.(watch out for the cables):ok:

No complaints about me being irresponsible please:}

[stue]

Like mark said all rule 5 states is that you have to be 500ft from any person, vehicle, vessel or structure. On Morcambe bay in Lancs ther are not alot of things described above and so you are more than legal to fly at whatever height you like. You just have to trust you engine!:p

stue:D

[tmmorris]

A previous thread on this subject revealed that UK case law had established that a fence was not a structure, by the way...

Tim

[Human Factor]

I have done pfl's down to about 20ft agl taking advantage of the rules....

Watch out for CAA miners just below the surface.;)

[markflyer6580]

I will keep a good lookout,sneaky buggers!:D

[oldfella]

Although it might be legal below 500ft watch for military low level traffic. Get a map sowing their sreas if possible. At 420kts he will be only a speck on your windscreen then fill your windscreen. You will also be very slow moving in his eyes and it is often relative movement that triggers his view. Midairs in the past between fast low movers and light aircraft well documented. Even the wash from a 420kt guy can do you serious damage.

[Fournicator]

I have done pfl's down to about 20ft agl taking advantage of the rules,after all if you don't go down to the ground you never know if you would make it.

While you might not know whether you would be able to land the aircraft without causing any damage, it should be pretty obvious by 200ft agl, at the lowest, whether you're going to walk away or not - which I would argue is the prime aim of a PFL - if the engine has failed then the aircraft is now the insurers problem! Continuing a PFL down to ground level off-airfield gives you no room whatsoever for any coughing or spluttering as you climb away.

Surely you can tell from 200ft if you're in a position to land safely from a glide approach? And if you're not sure, should you really be continuing into a position where you are totally reliant on the engine picking up instantly to get you out of trouble?

[FlyingForFun]

On Morcambe bay in Lancs ther are not alot of things described above and so you are more than legal to fly at whatever height you likeSomeone I know flies very low over Morcambe Bay from time to time, and claims to be able to see several cars stranded (presumably abandoned many years ago) in the quicksand. I wonder if these count as "vehicles" for the purpose of the 500' rule???

As for PFLs, I like to think of the PFL as being a way to practice the forced landing up to, and maybe slightly past, the turn to final if there are issues with the 500' rule. The latter stages of the PFL, including the landing, can be practiced at an airfield by doing a glide approach.

FFF
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[Maude Charlee]

Ah, low flying. One of the pleasures of chugging around the Northern Pennines and Scottish Borders. Lots of places to go and have fun. Mil jets not a problem at 20ft except for wake turbulence. :E

Yes it's potentially dangerous, possibly illegal and foolish, but so is driving at 100mph on country roads. It IS a blast though. :ok:

[Craggenmore]

My FI Instructor always recommended to go as low as possible in PFL's but do an extra engine warm in the descent to stop the engine coughing!

The reason being that the last 300ft are of utmost importance and is really the whole point of the exercise - getting into a field safely!

If you bail out at 500 foot or even 2-300ft you have missed the main point.

I once started to bail out at about 300ft and he said to keep it going down. I was sure to make it but a quick gust with flap timing saw me wickedly undershoot in that last 300 ft.....Unbelieveable

Keep it as real and as legal as possible was his advice with very good reason

Craggs :)

[bar shaker]

Craggs

This year we have lost so many pilots to what should have been survivable out landings.

Practicising the last bit back at the airfield is not practicising it at that field, with that windshear, in that windstrength and with that amount of field available.

I try and do a PFL every third flight.

[Craggenmore]

Bar Shaker,

I have never practiced PFl's at an airfield; Only real fields or what has been available when the powerplant has been cut.

I only practice glide approaches at an airfield.

When I do PFL's, it has always been down to the absolute minimum, realistically and lawfully. This has included daisy-cutting and worm-burners. This is my entire point.

You have misunderstood my post with others (who do stop their PFL's at 300/500 foot.)

Edited to say, Bar Shaker, I have re read your post and understand what you were saying now...!! :p

[bar shaker]

I understand perfectly and am in full agreement with you.

[slim_slag]

Top tip I was given when low flying is always dial in a small amount of up trim, so if your hand slips on the stick (airplanes with yokes should stay at a respectable altitude only :)) you will automatically climb. Also watch you don't drag a wingtip in the turn.

[markflyer6580]

drag a wingtip
Now thats low:D :D :ok:

[eharding]

If you bail out at 500 foot or even 2-300ft you have missed the main point.

I once started to bail out at about 300ft and he said to keep it going down.


If you bail out at 500 foot or even 2-300ft you'd better
have a pretty damn impressive parachute......

[Fournicator]

Surely the reason you're taught to aim 1/3 of the way into the field is to allow for gusts, windshear and the like causing a sudden undershoot?

And let's be honest here, the fields most PPLs practice PFLs into are hardly likely to have any significant curlover/windshear effects, unless you're flying in some particularly sporting terrain. So it therefore makes more sense to practice the last 2-300ft on a PFL or glide approach to an airfield, where you can also prcatice judging a flare from a higher RoD and IAS than that usually experienced in a powered approach.

As a further point, I would advocate practicing PFLs to airfields as well as to fields - is this not the method of recovery you'd use in the event of, say, a rough running engine?

Just my 2p's worth!

[stue]

Someone I know flies very low over Morcambe Bay from time to time

I wouldnt like to be that low.....think i know who you mean though?

Interesting thought though, is a burned out car classed as a vehicle and so you must comply with rule 5?

[Piltdown Man]

Try hill soaring in a glider as legal dispensation is granted for this specific pastime. There are enough natural racetracks in the UK that can be really thrashed around (80 - 120 kts or so) for a few hours right down in the weeds and the best bit is that you are totally legal. And the fun really starts when there are a few of you!

[Lister Noble]

I have been practising PFL's at an old disused airfield but not going below 300 ft as we did not want to annoy anyone because there is a USAF WW2 museum there.
The CFI said I would have made them but to practice whenever I can as each one is different.
Have also been practising steep bank turns up to 80 degrees and the stall warning and buffet was coming on around 50% over normal straight and level airspeed.
Lister:D

[Fournicator]

Piltdown - Couldn't agree with you more! Ridge-running relatively slowly and actually going cross-country in ridge lift is great fun, but a spot of legalised hooliganism hooning a ridge at low-level/high speed is fantastic, especially with you mates in tow!

This may seem somewhat at odds with my earlier postings, but
a) I've got a lot more faith in the wind continuing to blow, and ease of converting the glider's speed to height, than in the engine picking up perfectly after a lengthy descent;
b) you always have the option of diving into away from the ridge to find good landing options;
c) It's perfectly legal! Yes, I know, all the PFLs we talked about are legal as long as you don't come near any Persons, Vehicles, Vessels or Structures, but there's surely always that doubt that there might be a couple up to no good in the undergrowth somewhere you haven't seen!

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