Multi engine & Single engine IR

[jerezflyer]

I have a question regarding the various options for the IR.

1. If you do the Multi IR do you end up with the ME rating and IR for ME aircraft only?

2. If you do the ME IR does this mean you can only fly IFR in multi engine aircraft and NOT in single engine aircraft?

3. If you do the SE IR, does this mean you can fly IFR in ME aircraft after only adding an ME rating?

4. Do you have to do 2 IR courses (SE & ME)???

You can all imagine how expensive it would be to log ME IR hours, as opposed to SE IR.

Replies would be most appreciated.

Thanks,

jerezflyer

[-IBLB-]

1. depends on the system you fly in. FAA, no, JAA yes.

2. isn't this the same question? FAA no, JAA yes

3. no, need to take a Multi-engine-IR

4. you can get away with one checkride in FAA, you will need to take 2 in JAA.

Usually, single engine is done first, then multi (due to costs) or even training on single engine, and a few hours on multi before checkride is possible.

-IBLB-

[LFS]

Jerezflyer,

The Multi-engine IR and M/E rating are two seperate courses and cannot be combined. If you do a M/E IR course not all of the course has to be completed on the twin, most schools would do a significant amount on a simulator (fnpt I or II) or even some in a single engine aircraft. The M/E IR allows your to exercise it's priviledges in a single as well.

If you complete a S/E IR you will have to do a minimum of 5 hours M/E IR training and another full IR test to obtain a M/E IR (in addition to a M/E rating).

(The above applies to JAR).

[Bertie Bassett]

Dylan,

Is it possible to combine the IR and ME Skill test? The reason for asking is that there is a school in Spain (not FTE) that combines the two tests, although the training is separate. Its not mentioned anywhere in Lasors that this is possible/prohibited and so I was wondering whether this is allowed. Wouldn't want to come back to the UK to find the CAA considered the ME and IR passes as invalid because they were not done separately. Thanks in advance.

[LFS]

I don't know the situation in Spain, but in the UK you cannot combine the IR and M/E test, although you can combine the CPL and M/E test.

[18greens]

I thought the ME IR covers you for SE IR and IMC priviledges.

Most people (instuctors included) keep a MEIR valid via one check flight per year , renewing the MEP at the same time then fly and teach single engine IMC for the rest of the year. You can also lapse the IR into an IMC there by not quite having to do the renewal so religiously every 12 months.

[LFS]

18 greens, ME IR does cover you for the S/E IR and you can renew your MEP and M/E IR in the same test but you cannot combine the initial tests. For the IR to lapse into an IMC rating you need to make sure that you seperatley apply for the endorsement on your licence and that you get it signed off when you do your IR renewal.

[FlyingForFun]

Agree with all of the answers so far, especially from Dylan.

One area in which a lot of people I've spoken to seem to get confused is this: A multi-pilot IR does not give you privileges on a single-pilot aircraft. However, a multi-engine IR gives you privileges on both multi- and single-engined aircraft.

This is quite clear - but I think a lot of people have a quick read of this particular rule and because they didn't read it properly, get confused between multi-pilot and multi-engine.

FFF
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[jerezflyer]

Thank you all very much for your input - much appreciated. Now, let me see if I understand it all correctly:

If you want to do a multi engine IR, you must do the ME rating first as a prerequisite, if you are to fly multi engine aircraft IFR (because you are not allowed to fly multi engine aircraft without an ME rating anyway - I suppose??) Is this correct??

If you wanted to just do the SE IR, then to "upgrade" to ME IR, I would have to do the ME rating and then do a reduced???? course (not 55 hours I hope!!) then another flight test.

Doesn't seem to be much point doing a SE IR - you might as well do the ME class rating + ME IR straight off - as it seems you can excersise the privilges on SE aircraft anyway - kill two birds with one stone??

As far as saving the ATPL theory within 3 years is concerned, I suppose a SE IR will do??

How many types of IR are there? SE, ME - multi-pilot???

I thought the idea of the IR was to allow you to fly IFR in IMC, the use of VORs, ILS, SID, STAR - is it not the same for any aircraft??

[Bertie Bassett]

Dylan,

Thanks for the reply. Following your response I thought I'd better check with the CAA on how they would view a combined ME/IR flight test from another JAA state. If anyone is interested, the response from SRG was that it would be acceptable if the following certificates were provided and conditions met :

a. JAA ME skill test certificate
b. JAA IR skill test certificate
c. an FTO JAA Approval certificate
d. a JAA Examiner certificate
e. the flight test in the logbook was for a sufficiently long period of time to adequately cover all aspects of the normal ME and IR skill test. This would be checked by a CAA Examiner before issue of the ME Rating and IR Rating.

Note, the above is my interpretation of what I was told on the phone by SRG and is not to be taken as gospel!.

[LFS]

Jerezflyer,

All basically correct. The course to convert from S/E IR to M/E IR is minimum 5 hours M/E IR training and another full IR test which is what puts most people off. Some people do the S/E IR as a way of 'banking' their exams if time is running out, but it doesnt really save any money in the long run and for most people one IR test is enough.

There are basically Single Pilot and Multi-pilot IR's which are then applied to the different classes and types of aircraft.

Bertie,

Sounds reasonable but as I say I couldn't comment on other JAA states rules.