strobe light on! when?

[erickthepilot]

Hello everybody

I have a question to all of you. I would like to know more about the usage of the strobe light.
Lately I had a little conversation with one of my crew member.

We were in chicago and we were cleared "into position and hold RWY 14L"
after this instruction we moved into the RWY and I wanted to turn my strobe light on.
But my crew told me that it was not appropriate to do this in the US.
According to the FAA I should only turn the strobe light on when the "take off clearance" was given, he told me.

Now I'm a little confused, isn't the use of strobe light "on" on
the runway good to indicate other aircraft, ATC, ground staff ...that I'm actually on the runway, and waiting for further instructions?
Please tell me your suggetions and about the FAA rules.
Thank you

[Guatico]

Maybe your matey was just taking the mickey out of you ;)

[Dream Land]

Turn on strobes when on the active.:ok:

D.L.

[BOAC]

erick - easy answer:

1) Is it in your airline's SOPs?
2) If not, are you the Captain:-

Yes - Turn them on

No - don't - raise it with your safety officer later - keep your fingers crossed while on the runway

[rigpiggy]

check out FAA AC120-74A I think or do a search on the site. use of external lighting....

engine on...nav/logo/beacon
Cleared to taxi.... taxi light on
cleared to position.... all but strobes/landing lihts
cleared to t/o.... all on

[erickthepilot]

Thanks for all your answers.
By the way I'm not a captain.
We have it in SOP and before T/O checklist.
I believe strobe means aircraft is on the active runway.

[rigpiggy]

Straight from the FAA edited for length

USE OF EXTERIOR AIRCRAFT LIGHTS TO MAKE AIRCRAFT MORE CONSPICUOUS.

b. Exterior Lights. To the extent possible and consistent with aircraft equipage, operating limitations, and flightcrew procedures, pilots should illuminate exterior lights as follows:
(1) Engines Running. Turn on the rotating beacon whenever an engine is running.
(2) Taxiing. Prior to commencing taxi, turn on navigation, position, anti-collision, and logo lights, if available. To signal intent to other pilots, consider turning on the taxi light when the aircraft is moving or intending to move on the ground, and turning it off when stopped, yielding, or as a consideration to other pilots or ground personnel. Strobe lights should not be illuminated during taxi if they will adversely affect the vision of other pilots or ground personnel.
(3) Crossing a Runway. All exterior lights should be illuminated when crossing a runway.
CAUTION: Flightcrews should consider any adverse effects to safety that illuminating the forward facing lights will have on the vision of other pilots or ground personnel during runway crossings.
(4) Entering the departure runway for takeoff or “position and hold.” When entering a runway either for takeoff, or when taxiing into “position and hold,” flightcrews should make their aircraft more conspicuous to aircraft on final behind them and to ATC by turning on lights (except for landing lights) that highlight the aircraft’s silhouette. Strobe lights should not be illuminated if they will adversely affect the vision of other pilots.
Page 14 Par 7
9/26/03 AC 120-74A (5) Takeoff. Turn on landing lights when takeoff clearance is received, or when commencing takeoff roll at an airport without an operating control tower.
NOTE: The SOP of turning on landing lights when takeoff clearance is received is a signal to other pilots, ATC, and ground personnel that the aircraft is moving down the runway for takeoff.

[Squealing Pig]

On crossing an active runway would you put the strobe and transponder on during crossing ?

[rigpiggy]

not unless you want ground squawking at you. some a/p actually have you turn it on to taxi, others don't

[Captain Stable]

I tend to agree with rp's first posting. What I generally teach is:-

Nav lights on all the time.
At night, add logo lights.

Before start:-
Beacon on

Before taxy:-
Taxy (and turnoff) lights on

On entering the active runway (whether to cross or line up):-
Strobes on

On receiving takeoff clearance:-
Landing lights on
-------------------------------------------
On climbout/gear retract/flaps up:-
Taxy/turnoff lights off

On passing FL100:-
Landing lights off
Logos off
------------------------------------------
On passing FL100 in the descent:-
Landing lights on
Logos on

On lowering gear / receiving landing clearance:-
Taxy / turnoffs on
-----------------------------------------
Vacating the runway:-
Landing/strobes off

Approaching stand:-
Taxy / turnoffs off

Engine shutdown:-
Beacon off

Securing aircraft:-
Logos / navs off

That all having been said, of course, different companies have different procedures. The should be detailed in the Ops Manual under SOPs. Furthermore, for various reasons, different airports and different states have their own requirements. These shouldn't vary hugely from the above which, I humbly submit, represent the best airmanship I can think of.

With regard to the transponder question, if the airport in question has the necessary equipment for secondary ground radar, if it is required when crossing the active, it should be on at all times. Some aircraft, of course, inhibit the transponder when weight is on the wheels.

[rigpiggy]

CS, what you described is pretty much industry standard. What get's me is guys/gals who try to reinvent the wheel. It would be nice if everybody stayed on the same page

[Old Smokey]

Just when you thought that something was industry standard, someone comes along to say that some of us are marching to the beat of a different drum.

For my money, what Captain Stable has spelled out so well IS the industry standard. (Particularly with respect to Strobe Light use).

For me, Strobe Lights ON is a clear indication from the particular aircraft that "I own the runway". With the obvious exception of an expected late landing clearance where the runway-occupying aircraft ahead has Strobe Lights ON, I have but one reaction to Strobe Lights on the runway - Go Around!

Regards,

Old Smokey

[Homepage]

What about turning off all lights on the ground to indicate giving way to another aircraft? (except nav/beacon/logo)

It's used by quite a few people out there and I think it's a good idea,which can save confusion. Only moving aircraft put their taxy+turnoffs on. If your stopped and/or giving way, turn them off.

[NG_Kaptain]

Did a very quick and unscientific survey yesterday at Heathrow 9R, our Airbus SOP is on entering any active runway (even crossing one) strobes and landing lights come on. We were about 12th in the queue, my FO and I started paying attention to what the other guys would do on entering the runway, not surprisingly all the UK, European and Asian carriers turned on all lights on entering the runway (no Middle East or African in queue) but most surprising was the two UAL and one AA flights ahead of us followed the same procedure, I was really expecting them to go strobes and lights on with takeoff clearance. Are they briefed for international ops to follow these procedures and when domestic to wait til clearance is received before turning on lights and strobes?

below is an excerpt from FCOM 3.3.11 A340, which is done before going below the line and prior to lining up.
-EXTERIOR LIGHTS SET


Set the RWY TURN OFF, LAND, and NOSE switches to ON/TO, in order to minimize bird strike hazard during takeoff.
Set the STROBE lights to ON, before entering the runway.
-SLIDING TABLE STOWED


-ATC When cleared for takeoff : ON (or XPDR or XPNDR )


This is not applicable to ATC panels equipped with an AUTO position, if AUTO is selected.
-BEFORE TAKEOFF CHECKLIST below the line COMPLETE

[Captain Stable]

NGK - I am sceptical about the value of lights in assisting bird avoidance. There is some research out there (I understand - haven't seen it myself) which alleges that lights actually attract birds.

[Canuckbirdstrike]

Captain Stable:

There is no research that I am aware of that indicates that aircraft lighting attracts birds. In fact the opposite is more likely true. Bird vision is such that turning on lights will increase the visibility of the aircraft and reduce the potential for bird strikes.

Before anyone asks - aircraft radar has no effect on birds, they cannot detect it so it is completely useless for reducing bird strikes.

Richard
A320 Captain and bird hazard researcher

[NG_Kaptain]

The bit about birds is quoted verbatim from the Airbus FCOM, in my opinion the primary reason is for being seen by other aircraft also.