Wha'ever

[Timothy]

I wish this were a CAP 413 approved phrase.

So often I am asked "What level do you require?"; "Do you require an IFR or VFR clearance?"; "Would you prefer to route East or West of the overhead?" and the truthful answer is "wha'ever"

The trouble is, I might nominate a level or a routing that's a real pain to the controller; the controller, being the obliging type that controllers are, will do his or her best to accommodate when I would have been perfectly happy at a different level or going a different way that would have been much easier.

So, how would you like to hear "wha'ever" being expressed? Or is it even less helpful than a precise answer?

[av8boy]

So long as we understand that I'm on a different continent...

Me: "What level do you require?";
You: "Anything below ten thousand (or FL210 or whatever)."

Me: "Do you require an IFR or VFR clearance?";
You: (Be truthful. It simply isn't my place to suggest.)

Me: "Would you prefer to route East or West of the overhead?"
You: "No preference."

If you've got needs, pipe up and we'll work it out. If you don't care one way or another, say it in clearly and we'll work it out. My only request is, if you DON'T care one way or the other, be brief when you tell me. Also remember, if I'm giving you options (i.e. "east or west of the overhead") then that means that either one is good with me. If it wasn't, then I'd have already pinned you down to a particular routing. I'm NOT going to offer you something that's going to make a mess of things.

And as to your final question... sometimes, yes. Especially if it takes a long time for you to say it. Again, if you ask for something that's not going to work for me, then you're not going to get it and I will suggest an alternative. So, bottom line: tell me what you want and we'll discuss it.

[Timothy]

Me: "Do you require an IFR or VFR clearance?";
You: (Be truthful. It simply isn't my place to suggest.)
It's not a matter of truthfulness.

I might be VFR on a gin clear day wanting to go through a Class D zone.

I have heard some controllers say that they prefer IFR because they can vector me and assign a level, whereas on VFR I am a loose cannon.

I have heard others prefer VFR because they can apply reduced separations.

Presumably it depends on the day and the traffic.

If I am happy with either I am happy to tell the controller so. Nothing to do with truthfulness.

[Jerricho]

It's not a matter of truthfulness.

Actually it is.

It may be a gin clear day, but for those of use stuck in a radar room don't know what it's like outside, and really have only the hourly metar to go on (or the guy who has just come in from having a smoke and says "Hey, it's clearing up out there" or "You should see the cell down to the south west".) It also removes any doubt, as I have had an instance where matey boy called up at 40 miles with "I'm a PA31 blah blah blah, inbound to land" who had filed VFR but was IMC and didn't say anything until told to "Maintain 3000 VFR at all times"................ Uhhhhhhhhh.

[Timothy]

What I am asking is what to say when truthfulness is not a factor.

The visibility is 30k, the skies are clear, the sun is shining, it's lovely up here...do I want an IFR or VFR transit?

Frankly I want to do what's easiest for everyone. I normally answer "I am VFR but can accept IFR"...is that the most helpful?

[flower]

Timothy,

It isn't a situation I come across often but I would do what you are already doing in advising you can accept either clearance. It really is traffic situation dependant and sometimes one works better than the other. Likewise the level issue, we try to keep you where possible at the level you are already maintaining , however if you consider that an alternative level may help the ATCO out advise you can accept an alternative if required.

"Yeah whatever" is a phrase we often bandy around in jest , flexibility is great but where ever possible we like to try to give you what you require.

[LostThePicture]

There's just no pleasing some people. As ATCOs we're there to provide FIS, RIS, RAS, RCS (depending on where we work). The "S" in each case stands for SERVICE. Yep, we're down on the ground to make your life easier, not the other way round.

If we provide you with a choice, it is because we want to provide with the best possible SERVICE. If you are lucky enough to get a choice, then be good enough to answer with your preference - the very fact that we can let you choose means that we can accommodate any of the possible choices. As av8boy says, if we on the ground want to have you at a particular level, going in a particular direction and so forth, you won't get a choice.

Of course, after a choice has been made, the situation might change - in which case both ATCO and pilot can make requests of each other as required. At this point it is useful to know what you can and can't do, so answers like "I am VFR but can accept IFR" are indeed very helpful. But "Whatever" or "I don't mind" are not answers we like to hear at any time. Such responses suggest that you're not really bothered about receiving a service at all - at least that's the impression that we might get on the ground.

So, in short: Make the most of any options that we offer you with a positive response, because on another day you won't be given options at all.

LTP
(who believes "whatever" shouldn't even be in the dictionary, let alone CAP413)

[cdb]

Sorry LTP, I disagree. I think "No preference" is a great answer, we can do whatever is quickest/least work.

As to type of clearance, I think "VFR but can accept IFR" is also perfect. Like you said, it depends on the class of airspace, met and any other traffic in the region.

[Widger]

Am I bovvered?



http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/guide/images/200/catherine_tate.jpg

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Widger - I should think so with a granny like that!

[yakkity yak]

without sounding like I am belittling pilots but In my training years ago I was told "give them nothing" in other words dont offer anything because what it will do is end up causing you a headache or if not you someone down the line. So I allocate my clearances on what best fits the traffic scenario bearing in mind what might be down the line and then what works most expeditiously and what is most practical. Remember, the pilot is only concerned with his own patch (aircraft) but yours is the all the aircraft and not snookering yourself, that is why I never give options unless either option will be of advantage to my traffic disposition at the time, and to minimise my workload.

[PH-UKU]

Good topic Timmy -

I like .... "I am VFR but can accept IFR" - that shows that the pilot has an understanding of the rules

(you would be amazed how many people respond "VMC" when asked if they are IFR or VFR)

But then again, never underestimate the path of least resistance ... so "wha'ever" is perfectly acceptable IMHO.

And form the other side of the headset ....sometimes it quite nice when flying around to have the occasional decision made for you ;)


What this does highlight is that more ATCOs should have a better appreciation and awareness of flying, and that scrapping of Assisted Flying Schemes was merely short-sighted bean-counter driven folly. :mad:

[ThrillHouse]

I lways by default choose the lesser number and left over right.

[Timothy]

I lways by default choose the lesser number and left over right.Too tight to use a coin like the rest of us? :p