Operators manual

[Genghis the Engineer]

This is a spin-off from a fascinating thread running on the instructors forum.

The question is simple. At your normal place of aerial recreation (flying club, syndicate, school, etc.) what's the situation concerning the operators manual for the aeroplane you fly, and any requirement to read it?

If you run or own such an organisation, please don't vote - I want to know what the pilots experience is, not what the managers and instructors think they do - just vote as a PPL.

G

[Andy_R]

The group I belong to keeps the POH under lock and key. I don't agree with that and it is available for inspection (i kept copies of all pages for myself), but am overuled there.

The club I hire from has recently changed their policy and ensures that the POH for each aircraft is in the aircraft bag containing all checklists, insurance, etc etc. However they do leave it up to the individual to read it him/herself.

[dublinpilot]

The club I am with now "encouraged" me to take a good read of it, when I had a chance.

The previous one was much more "why do you want it?" "Are you sure you need it?" Well you can read it when no ones using the airplane, so long as you stay here in the office.

[Whirlygig]

Well, I'm the first to say "required"!

The school where I go, make it mandatory before self-fly hire and I had to sign to say I'd read it. But, having done that, there's no further requirement for me to re-read it (although I do before my LPC). I also have to read the Flying Order Book (and again sign) each year!

Cheers

Whirls

[ChampChump]

How do I vote if the aeroplane's original POH equivalent is lost in time (and she has undergone various changes in the intervening decades)?

:confused:

[BEagle]

There's another option needed for the vote:

'The Club provides the POH, but I can't be bothered to read it'.

In any case, a good checklist will probably provide all the relevant information which most pilots might need.

[tmmorris]

Of course, in the States they can't understand this; the POH is always in the ac and in fact I remember an instructor reaching for the table to set the exact cruise RPM for a given altitude to ensure we had 65% power, plus leaning accurately as well. None of which I had ever seen before, having trained in the UK...

Tim

PS Whirly: we have to sign for the FOB every month! But then we are based on a mil. airfield so changes can occur regularly.

[englishal]

In the US it is normal to be given a thorough checkout quiz which must be completed, checked and signed before you can rent. This quiz ask all aspects of the aircraft (specific) which can only be got from the POH......So I read it at least once ;) I don't remember ever receiving one of these in the UK.......

[High Wing Drifter]

This depends what you mean by PoH. There is the checklist that the School provides complete with W&B, Speeds, engine settings, limits, performance, measures, engineering summary and operational information. This is a vastly slimmed down version of the Flight Manual, but contains everything bar the charts needed to fly in accordance with the CofA. These are approved by the CAA for the purposes of flight training by carry the title "Checklist". They are in my view PoHs.

Then there is the Flight Manual. The big thick thing with detailed information on MEL, Charts, examples, instructions, cockpit layout, addendums from the CAA, etc, etc, etc. Usually runs to hundreds of pages.

The former is required reading. The latter is kept in the office, but is readily available as is the photocopier :ok:

[Rallye Driver]

When I was checked out on the Arrow, I just got the "official" club checklist and weight & balance info, plus a verbal briefing.

When I was checked out on the Bulldog at another club, part of the procedure was a written exam paper covering all sections and procedures, which could only be answered by reading the POH. The POH was also kept in the aircraft.

I know a lot more about the Bulldog! I think clubs are reluctant to release the handbooks with so many different people flying the aircraft they could easily go missing. For a group it is a different matter.

RD

[Mike Cross]

In my experience you get w&b, speeds etc but if you want the POH you have to ask for it.

I was about to suggest that an electronic POH would be a good idea but then I realised the difficulty of ensuring the copy you are looking at is the latest. Still not a bad idea if an authoritative up to date copy were required to be kept in the a/c.

The prob with the paper version is it disintegrates too easily if used as it should be and is generally in a format that makes it not readily reproducible.

Mike

[wbryce]

The group I joined I took the POH home before I even flew the aircraft! Boring but strangley interesting!

The flying club I use; my instructor is nearly hitting me over the head with the POH for the aircraft which i'm learning my IMC in! I do plan to read it sooner rather than later! I would prefer If I could take the manual home and read in the own comfort of my house though!

[Whopity]

Flight Manual - a document prescribed by ICAO primarily for use by flight crew. The manual sets out the limitations, recommended procedures and information necessary for the safe operation of the associated aircraft in accordance with the current airworthiness requirements and air navigation legislation.

The Flight Manual as approved by the CAA, forms part of the Certificate of Airworthiness.

Note: Under EASA the Certificate of Airworthiness must be carried in the aircraft on all flights. It would appear this includes the Flight Manual as it is part of the C of A!

Pilots Operating Handbook (POH)- This is required by Permit to Fly aircraft which do not need a Flight Manual.

Reference: CAP396 Registration and Maintenance of Aircraft.
BCAR Section A, Ch A7-2 and Section B Ch B7-2.

[Say again s l o w l y]

Sooner please Mr Bryce!! It's a much cheaper evening than going out for a few 'quiet' ones!! (Maybe not as much fun though!)

Remind me again what the MTOM is?...........;)

[dublinpilot]

I have always believed that the flight manual is required to be on board the aircraft when in flight.

For the two Piper aircraft I fly, the flight manual is contained within the Pilot Operating Handbook, so I have assumed the POH must be on board while in flight.

Is the flight manual not always within the Flight Manual, and therefore not required on board?

dp

[mad_jock]

Different country different rules. It maybe so in Ireland

In the UK if you are flying internally you can leave all the paper work at home.

MJ

[Whopity]

Not if you read the latest Cof A!

[mad_jock]

A point well made Whopity. When does the rule change come through? Or is it ongoing with every star annual

[Genghis the Engineer]

For the two Piper aircraft I fly, the flight manual is contained within the Pilot Operating Handbook, so I have assumed the POH must be on board while in flight.

But having it on board does not equate to having read it. I'd also venture that it takes longer to look up information, particularly whilst also flying an aeroplane, than the time taken to need it.

G

[Engineer]

I'd also venture that it takes longer to look up information, particularly whilst also flying an aeroplane, than the time taken to need it.

Surely the point is to read the book and not memorise it. But once you have read and I add understood it. Then you will know where to look for relevant information which can be found in a shorter time period even in flight.

[Genghis the Engineer]

The point is, to read the book!

Personally I distill the main things I need (approach speed, emergency drills, etc.) down to one side of A5 and attach it to my kneeboard.

G

[Engineer]

Is that why it is called a QRH (quick reference handbook) on bigger aeroplanes :O .

Joking aside it is sad to see that some people take what the instructors say as gospel without looking at the manual to confirm what is being taught. ;)

[dublinpilot]

But having it on board does not equate to having read it. I'd also venture that it takes longer to look up information, particularly whilst also flying an aeroplane, than the time taken to need it.

No dispute there! I was just surprised at the amount of people who said it was removed from the aircraft, and locked away. I was wondering if my understanding of the regulations was wrong, but it's probably just a different rule in the UK.

dp

[High Wing Drifter]

There isn't a requirement to store the Flight Manual on the aircraft for private flights, nor for public transport flights that begin and end at the same aerodrome where those flights remain with the UK...or something like that.

[Whopity]

EASA Csof A came in September 2004. All existing Csof A are deemed to be EASA equivalent. However it is the new ones issued post Sept 2004 that contain the statement that the Cof A must be carried on all flights.

This is at variance with the ANO Article 86!

[Genghis the Engineer]

Actually, all CsofA that don't apply to Annex II aircraft.

G

[Flyin'Dutch']

Another thing the feds have right.

To be carried:

Airworthiness Certificate
Registration Certificate
Owner's manual (POH)
Weight and Balance sheet

No AROW no flight.

Makes life very easy.

[Keef]

I was told that the POH is a part of the C of A, and that the POH must be kept in the aircraft. Ours certainly is!

I bought my own to keep at home. It's unofficial, but identical to the official one apart from not having the CAA endorsements - one about not using flaps for takeoff, and one I forget.

[IO540]

Do any of these docs have to be the originals?

[Rod1]

The UK rule was that photocopies were ok. I do not know if EASA has changed this but as copies were ok in most of Europe, I would expect it to be unchanged.

Rod1