Post PPL Motorgliding.

[geordiejet]

Hey, I've recently attained my PPL with around 120 hours solo time, and I would like to keep flying as cheaply as possible. Im not too bothered about the relevence of the flying experience in my logbook but a low cost option would be great.

I'm interested in gliding, and im looking to take it up, but i've seen on some gliding club websites that they hire out the motorgliders, and at an hourly cost, it seems very cheap.

I would like to know what the procedures are for 'converting' a PPL to flying a motorglider-is it just like learning to fly a new aircraft model (i.e. and Tomohawk) or is it a whole new rating.

Also, bit of a bizaar question I'm sure, but wen you hire motorgliders, is there a restriction on the amoutn of time you have the engine running for, or can you keep flying powered for the entire duration.

Thanks for any assistance and taking the time to read my post,

Alex :-)

[Hour Builder]

I have no gliding experience, but as far as your licence goes, you can fly TMG or SLMG aircraft under the privilages of your current SEP rating. All you need is a TMG/SLMG instructor do conduct some differences training, and have them sign your logbook when they think you are ready. However unless you have the TMG or SLMG rating on your licence, you cannot use the time in either of these to revalidate your SEP by experience.

I know this doesn't answer much of your post, but hope it helps a little.

HB

[ChrisVJ]

Interesting, or mabe not so,how rules dffer.

In Canada a motor glider is a seperate type of aeroplane. I can't use motor glider hours to maintain currency for my pilot permit or PPL. Same goes for Advanced ultralight. I can fly the same plane as mine but registered as an advanced ultra light but it does not count towards Rec permit or PPL currency. (I think there is an exception that allows a small portion of AUL time towards initial PPL.) As I understood it these rules are all up for reconsideration. Personally I find AULs etc much moredifficult to fly that a certified Cessna so it does not make much sense.

[geordiejet]

Hey, that's really helpful thanks. I've also sent a few emails so hopefully Il be fully enlightened soon :-)
Alex

[Stan Evil]

Hourbuilder is not 100% correct. A TMG rating is a JAA rating and an SLMG rating is a National rating. You can get an SLMG rating by differences training, but any flying you then do in SLMGs won't count towards your JAR SEP class rating revalidation requirements. You can get a TMG rating by flying a class rating skills test with a JAA examiner (PPL examiner or class rating examiner) and then you can count the hours towards your JAR SEP class rating revalidation. Just to confuse things even more, there is a mechanism whereby you can convert an SLMG rating into a TMG rating if you have the right number of hours and apply to the CAA. LASORS has the details.

In case you're wondering, all TMGs are SLMGs but only SLMGs with non-retractable engines or propellers are TMGs.

[dublinpilot]

My IAA issued JAA PPL (SEP) came with a TMG class rating. I never had to do a separate skills test for the TMG, just one for the SEP.

dp

[Hour Builder]

Stan Evil, would love for you to tell me what I said was wrong.

Wouldn't be the first time today :D

[geordiejet]

ah ok, another question; a lot of the TMGs I've seen in local clubs have tailwheels, do I need a tailwheel conversion in say a cessna?

[Piltdown Man]

If you want cheap flying, why not go microlighting? The motorgliders that are hired out are generally highly efficient powered aircraft with a reasonable to poor gliding/soaring performance. Examples of this would be the Grob 109 or the Katana (with the long wings). The ones operated by gliding clubs are operated to teach you to fly gliders and are generally not available for private hire. They also have a dreadful performance in everything they do (Super Falke). To get in the exotic stuff (ASH 25E), you'd have to be a London plumber or Compo Lawyer to afford it. Hence my suggestion of Microlights.

[ChampChump]

'Dreadful performance'? If you mean slow, certainly, but for those whose pleasure is in the journey, that might not be particularly important. The humble Falke and slightly less humble Fournier are economical and efficient, great fun to fly and if it all goes quiet, unplanned, will be a lot more use than many a spamcan. I've nothing against spamcans, or microlights, but the original question was specifically about motor gliders and their suitability for cheaper flying. In that respect, they are excellent.

Incidentally, as mentioned previously, it pays to log TMG time separately not just to assist the calculation of hours in the USA/UK where motor gliders are gliders/aeroplanes respectively but also because of 'tailwheel hours'. For insurance purposes, I give total tailwheel time but specify the TMG element.

Give it a try.. :)

[J.A.F.O.]

Quick question, 'cos I'm hoping to do some motor-floating next year. When you say log seperately do you mean a seperate log book or a column that you're not using in your usual log book?

[ChampChump]

I use an otherwise unused column in the logbook. Multi-engine night, or something like..:E

CC

[J.A.F.O.]

Cheers CC. :ok:

[geordiejet]

Hye all, i've heard that it is now possible to hire microlights for solo-hire, but here in the north east im struggling to find a club who hires out the aircraft. However, there are a few clubs which hire out the motorgliders :-) I'd quitre like microlighting I think, perhaps Il look further afield for someone who hires them out.

[Piltdown Man]

CC: When I mean dreadful I mean poor power to weight ratio, draggy wings, poor airbrakes, high sink rate, small payload, small tank (but probably big enough for me), poor trim, relatively obscured vision (for a glider), poor control harmony, wretched trim, uncomfortable seats, low climb rate and it's (Super Falke) ugly. But apart from that, it's pretty good!

[ChampChump]

Oh, is that all? I thought you just exaggerating.

I know we'll never agree on the old best of both worlds/worst of both worlds argument. Having had many happy hours in an standard (=non-Super) Falke I might concede a couple of your points, but IMHO the vision is as good as many gliders and better than most other aeroplanes, controls were nicely harmonised, the trim efficient and airbrakes more than adequate. Most importantly, she was a true pleasure to fly. I have never flown a Super Falke; I remember hangar talk that indicated there was a significant difference. I don't know.

Our different perceptions demonstrate perhaps that aircraft - and pilots - just won't be categorised too easily.

Gj, I hope you manage to try all the aircraft you're considering. Is the name an aspirational one or ill you change it once you've found your chosen mount?;)

[A Sayers]

Hi
I am a FE(A), my authorisation to examine includes TMG and SLMG. Not many of us around. If anyone has specific enquiries I will probably be impartial as I am based in Scotland and you guys probably are not. PM me.
Andy.