NetJets Pay

[DreamFLT]

Hi all

I'm currently flying widebody for a small european operator. The moral is low among the drivers and I'm very unhappy.
I'm considering aplly to NetJets Europe. I appreciate very much if any of you could give some idea about the take home (after taxes) for the NetJets drivers and if there is any medical plan and loss of licence insurance.

Thanks a lot for your time.

Happy landings

DreamFLT

[270/55G75]

No LOL
Med insurance taken care off
Net Take home :

FO : approx 3500
Captain : approx 6000

Per diems not included. 70 E per day

Work = 18 days per month, roster is fix schedule is not not.

[DreamFLT]

Thanks a lot for the information, much appreciated.
By the way, those figures are tax free or not?
If not, In which country are the taxes paid.
Once again, thanks a lot for your time.

Happy landings

DreamFLT

[redsnail]

UK tax is paid at source.
I believe Portugal tax is paid at source.

New pay deal coming in the new year for the small cabin fleet.

Other European countries have different arrangements.

Have a look at PPJN for more info.

[jr of dallas]

I was just wondering what would be the pay on long range Jets (GV....) since as o f/o on falcon 900, I get 3500 euros net (plus medical...retirement profits )

happy landings

[tophe]

Tax are paid in your own country at the local rate (exept UK and portugal).Unless you have a specific deal with your taxman.
AT NJE, two pay scales starting next year: 800XP and below, and F2000 and above.

[DreamFLT]

Hi all

About the rosters, are you happy with it?
I assume that taxes in Portugal and Uk are paid in accordance with their law.
What do you think, if I apply and pass the assessment (of course), which fleet should I expect. I mean there is a standart entry level for every new joiner regardless the experience?
From what I read here in the forums, everybody joins as a F/O. What about time to command?

Once again, thanks a lot for your time.

Happy landings

DreamFLT

[redsnail]

Rosters have been a touchy point for some. You are contracted to work 18 days a month. Generally that is 6 on-4 off-6-5-6-4 or 5. It can be 6 on 3 off or even 6 off.
It depends on how many days are in that month and what season it is.

You can only do 55 hours duty per tour.

Fleet types. It depends on how many hours you have, how many jet hours you have prior and the company's needs on the day.

You will start as an FO and it could be on any thing from the Hawker (known as the Beech) 400XP, the Bravo, Citation Excel, Hawker 800XP and XPC, Falcon 900 or 2000, G4 etc...

You can be selected for command whilst you're doing your line training as an FO to having to wait a couple of years. It's up to you, the fleet and your hours. If you don't have jet time, you are usually required to get 500 hours jet before shifting seats. If you have a type rating on one of the fleet types, that will not guarantee you a slot on that machine.

You will find out at Indoc and even then it may change.

Taxes are very hard to escape. :D

[jr of dallas]

thank you but how much would a f/o on the long_haul fleet will get ??? ( see my previous message for the "continental" pay):}

[redsnail]

Have a look at PPJN (http://www.ppjn.com)
While they don't have the fleet pay as such, the info is reasonably close to the mark. The Larger cabin fleet get slightly higher pay.

I know I am being a tad vague but we have signed agreements and I don't want to upset those in the head office. :)

[jr of dallas]

ok ,thank you for the link....!

[26point2]

Hi guys, is there a website where i can find out more information about Net Jets and who to talk to about applying?
Do they need crew at the moment? i have BBJ, G4 and Hawker 800 time.

[StressFree]

26.2

You beat me to it............

Cheers Mate :cool:

[26point2]

HI Stress Free,
Interesting times eh!!, now, what was that link again....

Net Jets will be my first choice going by what ive heard about them, my kind of work too.

time we had a beer
:cool:

Thanks for the info Mike.
I checked out the website and will be sending in a C/V by E-Mail.
i noticed the 70 Euros per working day on top of the salary... am i right in assuming that covers lunch/dinner? and that hotels are covered by the company on top as required?

I see they dont take direct entry Captains, is there any flexibility there???

Appreciate your help,


26.2

[26point2]

Thanks again Mike, thats great and just the stuff i need, i guess you're happy at NetJets.
I exchanged contracts on a house on Friday so i know how busy you will be!!

Cheers,

26.2:ok:

[Smeagel]

26.2.

Mike Jenvey is very happy. Perma-grin happy. Life through his rose-tinted spectacles is great.

Not so for the several dozen pilots who resigned over the last few months. Those resignations served to make the company implement the pay scale adjustment they had been promising for about three years but there are still areas that cause friction.

I'm sure you're sensible enough to ask around and not make any rash decisions on the strength of one testimony. A search in this forum might be a good place to start.

[Smeagel]

MJ.

Why does it bother you so that someone might have more information than you? Does it not occur that taking a step back and having a good objective look might grant you the same insight?

Take in ALL the options rather than sticking with your own blinkered opinions. Listen to those around you who might, just might, have a valid point.

26point2. As MJ says I post mainly in the negative about NJE (though not always), a role forced upon me by the happy window lickers at the back of the bus. As I've said before it's not all doom and gloom but you need to be aware and know some history. A search of this forum is as good a place as any to start.

[Smeagel]

but you kept coming, back, & back & back..... Oh the irony.



I listen very well You have no idea how hard it is to bite my tongue on this one.


The 'forced' comment was tongue in cheek but we all know how you develop tunnel vision in your defence of all things NJE so I'm not surprised you missed it.

Keep it up MJ, we know you do it because management are watching.

[mach2moose]

Dear Smeagel,

May I respectfully ask, as one very new to this company, why you choose to air publicly on this forum your grievances with NJE.

Furthermore, I am intrigued why you continue to work for NJE, when you appear to be somewhat unhappy with the terms and conditions. There are, afterall, many other jobs advertised weekly in Flight International.

Maybe I'm missing the plot here, but you are giving a very bad impression of this company, which so far has treated me very fairly.

Thanks in anticipation,

M2M

[Scroll Lock]

Gee Smeagal, you must be a barrel of laughs to fly with !!
:yuk:

[Smeagel]

mach2moose. A valid question. You say however that you've been treated well '"so far". With all companies there is a honeymoon period, I hope yours lasts longer than most.

Scroll Lock. No complaints. I manage to differentiate between colleagues and others. Never yet had anyone call in sick rather than fly with me :rolleyes:

[trainer too 2]

Smeagel having a good objective look as well as I post mainly in the negative about NJE (though not always) Coming out of your mouth made my weekend! What a great joke you are.

Dear Smeagel could you please stop uthering outdated info on this forum.


:yuk:

[Smeagel]

Ah trainer, wondered when you would be along.

How outdated are resignations and the final arrival of the long promised new pay scale? Given that the latter has not actually happened but is imminent I'd say that was pretty up to date, wouldn't you?

[dogsbolx2]

Just a short message to Smeagel.

About six months ago I replied to one of numerous negative comments on Netjets.
I stated at the time I was new to the company and up till now had only experianced a good work pattern.

Of course I was quickly cut down for been new to the company and for not understanding the inner workings that go on behind the scenes.

Six months on and many tours later I have not changed my view that this so called Smeagal is talking through his/her rear end and his/her comments are not shaired by most Netjets Pilots.

I am certain that I will get another negative comment in reply to this, but like the better netjets pilots around me, we are fed up with comments been aired in PPRUNE that are far from the whole truth.

I am certain that people unconnected to the company see Smeagal for what he/her is a very sad person.:(

[26point2]

Thanks for all of your interaction,
i didnt mean to get things heated, just to pick up a hint or two about pay and conditions!!!
i did indeed want a balanced view from anyone who cared to speak up.

thanks for your comments Smeagel but its fair to say that you have been out voted on this occasion by Dogsbolx2, Trainertoo2, Scroll Lock and Mach2Moose and ofcourse Mike Jenvey. if any of you wish to make further comments, please do, i'd love to hear from you.

Thanks again, the C/V is in the post.. err.. e-mail!

26point2



:D

[spaniel]

26 point 2,
been with NJE 3.5 years and I'd throw my hat into the Jenvey, Dogsbolx2, trainertoo2, Scroll Lock and Mach2Moose camp. Treated me well and fun varied flying!

spaniel

[Smeagel]

Six months on and many tours later I have not changed my view that this so called Smeagal is talking through his/her rear end and his/her comments are not shaired by most Netjets Pilots

Dogsbolx2. I'm happy for you, six whole months without any issues. Maybe things are improving? Like I said before the resignations may have paid dividends for the rest of you. Long may it continue.


26point2. Please do not feel that I am being patronising but consider the disclaimer on the home page..........As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.
NJE management closely monitor this forum. Why else are some people prepared to waive anonymity and react rabidly to any negative comments?

The "outdated information" to which someone referred is relevant . There are certain instances from the past which speak volumes about the low esteem in which NJE holds it's employees.

MJ is dismissive of the resignations over the last few months but I can assure you they (eventually) were a cause for concern in Lisbon and were fundamental in the bringing about of pay rises for some crew which had been promised for nigh on three years. This is a bit of a taboo subject among certain pro-NJE'ers as they will benefit financially from the scheme yet at the cost of their colleagues who left.

I have said before that the situation has improved but there have been episodes recently where crew have been treated badly. Pay being witheld is just one method of punishment for 'offenders' even though such punishment is written nowhere in any contract. No doubt this will be denied by someone on here but I can assure you this is true.

Note that none of my detractors ever disputes the facts of resignations, changes of terms and conditions without agreement etc choosing instead to accuse me of being nothing but negative (take another quick look at the disclaimer).

The accusation that I post only negative comments should give some hint as to the naivete of those making it. The same could be said about those who only ever do the opposite (see above, remember who else monitors this forum). Of course I only bring the bad news, that is what the Smeagel persona was created for! Had people not tried to gloss over or deny the less favourable aspects of the company 'Smeagel' need never have come about and should life ever become as perfect as MJ and others would have you believe 'Smeagel' will go away.

In the meantime use 'search', read the history and apply with your eyes open.

[south coast]

so does that mean that the truth is somewhere in between what you and mj say...

which, in my opinion probably equals not a bad job since that elusive perfect job does not exist.

i always believe that no one forces us to work for our employers...

[26point2]

Smeagel. thanks for giving the reason for your grumblings, i was going to ask what your alter ego Golum makes of it all!
my eyes are wide open and i'm happy to listen too.

i would like to know more about the aircraft and rostering, what fleets are short of crew? are you constantly being asked to fly with minimum fuel?, more to the point, minimum catering??!!!
Do you feel completely on your own down the line or do you have good engineering and ops back up everywhere you go?

Can pilots join straight in on the BBJ or G4 if type rated?

Thanks in advance,

26.2:D

[Smeagel]

so does that mean that the truth is somewhere in between what you and mj say...

In the past somewhere I said the flying was good, machinery nice, destinations varied etc. I've NEVER denied that. What I sought to do is highlight the unpleasantries as a counterbalance to those punting the 'warm and fuzzy' line.

Why? Because those who refuse to acknowledge the negatives are luring people in under false pretences. How would you feel if you made a major career change only to find that once inside the company your contract was pretty much worthless and the terms and conditions you had been promised are subject to alteration on a whim?

No company would be this dishonest? What about a company that until very recently was telling applicants and new hires (at a time when resignations were coming at the rate of about a dozen a month) that only seven pilots had ever resigned in its entire history?

On a sliding scale I'd say in terms of the work itself it's 8 out of 10 but dealings with management are............. somewhere over to the left of centre and in need of work. Signs of improvement but too early to tell.

Edited to say.....

26.2 Support down route is usually good coming from Maintenance, Ops etc although there are still episodes worthy of the Keystone Cops. Being in generous mood I'd attribute this to pressure applied to support staff from above rather than malice.

Catering is not an issue in terms of the company, you'll almost always get fed, although the suppliers in some of the more remote places can be pretty hopeless.

Fuel was NEVER an issue for me. I heard pepole tell of some 'optimistic planning' on longer flights but as far as I know whenever the crew raised valid objections these were addressed.

Roster has been done to death on here and is one of the areas that has been changed without discussion. Contracts issued now stipulate minimum 18 days a month on a 6/4 or 6/5 basis. This was one of the major gripes cited by those who resigned and the company say they are now trying to adhere to 6 on, 5 off. At least during the winter.

New hires usually start on the smaller cabin fleet. So far no direct entry to the G4/G5 although there have been some swift 'accelerations'. No BBJ's in Europe.

Hope this helps.

[@v8ter]

Hey guys and girls just wondering what are the chances of a newbie like myself with around 300hrs getting a FO position with Netjets….really don’t want to get tangled up in the likes of Ryanair or Easyjet (paying out another €30,000 just to get a foot in the door)
Any information or advice would be great…..
:ok:

[Scroll Lock]

'Smeagel' will go away


Oh, you tease.

Light at the end of the tunnel, Chaps!!

:D

[redsnail]

Aviator,
I am sorry to say that with 300 hours you have no chance being employed as a pilot with Netjets Europe. Minimum is 1500 hours with 500 hours multipilot time, in essence, a full JAR ATPL.

I know this seems harsh but that's the mins.

[tarjet fixated]

just to recap correct me if i am wrong:
-Cpt.'s 7000€/month gross flight pay included
-F/O's 5000€/month gross flight pay included
-6 on 5 off more or less stable
-private medical and pension
-based anywhere in EU close to an international hub (can start/finish at different base if organized in due time)
-quick upgrade for those suitably qualified and with previous LHS experience

couple more questions:
-overall atmosphere,professional level and people?
-chances and time before changing fleets (from the smaller jets to the longer range ones and therefore longhaul)?
-plans for the future?more a/c?

thanks for the info!

[bad T and C]

Trainer too 2,

Get with the plot , CM on pprune?

Guys, I have to agree with Smeagel, most of what he talks about is true, although he is a bit bitter.

10% of our pilots have resigned in the last few months. As a direct result of this the knee jerk reaction from the Dark Master is a pay rise! Do you think this will stop the flow of resignations? I don't think so.

What about loyalty and the good of the workforce, just look at the way SL has been treated(buy the way he has gone).Who was willing to help him when he was asked to report to the office with no biscuits? Things are "good" in Netjets until your have an issue, but don't expect any help from your management!

See u in the Courtyard!

Bad t and c

[Smeagel]

Shock! Horror! Surprise! Joke Jenvey disagrees with a negative comment against his professional bolt hole, NJE!

Seriously MJ, take a look at what you post. It's common knowledge that many have resigned yet you continue the naysaying. Likewise the points raised about terms and conditions. Just saying it ain't so does not make it go away, capische?

Any rational person would know that this sort of behaviour undermines their standing and credibility. Far from currying favour in Lisbon your behaviour here has the opposite effect. Every time you put out your warm and fuzzy spiel it provokes argument and puts NJE in a spotlight management would rather it didn't have.

You just don't get it, do you?

[bad T and C]

Nice one Smeagel!

Mike, sorry I was wrong it was 8.9% pilot resignations over the last few months! Please feel free to correct me if you have a more accurate figure!:O

[natops]

is it just me if I say I feel a bit TENSION here?

Of course people leave NJE, but doesn´t it happen in most places?
Arent we all looking to improve our position if possible, whatever reason we have to leave?
I can tell you I like the flying with NJE, but I am still looking around and I might move on in the near future...who knows.



D.

[Smeagel]

Not so much 'tension' as incredulity. :ooh:

[Formally Known As]

Some of the biggest grovels and brown nosing I have ever seen appears on the topics regarding the mentioned company.

The posters are not completely to blame of course, as a few are obviously ex public servants and programmed for total allegiance and to complete the mission at all costs.

This sort of blind obedience is not really applicable in the real world. The company will drop you guys real quick, should you become surplus to requirements. Have no doubts about that.

[His dudeness]

@FKA: maybe its a matter of perspective? When you work at places like the ones I did, NJE Roster and pay and A/C´s become a dream. Beeing dropped when not required anymore is a cruel fact of life and true for all other operators as well - brown nosing will not make a difference...

I had an argument with smeagel before, I do agree that a onesided change of T&C´s by management is not okay, but still I´d regard the T&C´s of NJE as not to bad. If I have the chance, I´ll most likely join NJE. Brown nosing? Grovelling? Decide for yourself, my opinion is that NJE with its huge marketforce will have (and already has!) an impact on established operators and the pilot job market. The future will tell, but I think NJE will stay and grow and will be a more stable employer.

[Smeagel]

FKS. Spot on. The mission blinkers do seem to affect some (but not all) of those from a certain background. Difficult to adjust I suppose after years of being prepped for going to war although many make the adjustment quite happily.

HD. You are right. Compared with 'pure' corporate (permanently on standby, retrospective days off etc) NJE is luxury. It is much more stable, the money is often better however there are down sides.

The company are lucky enough to have some very talented, experienced and hard working people on the payroll most of whom would not accept a job in Lisbon in a million years because they have seen what going there does to people, their health, relationships and in some cases their careers. It's just a shame that they fail to treat them as professionals and ultimately this costs the company.

Examples abound. Scheduling will ask a crew to reduce to minimum rest and agree to give them only one flight the next day if they do. Guess how many times they have reneged on the deal? Guess how many crew now refuse to reduce rest, extend their tour or co-operate above and beyond their minimum required duties?

Who in their right mind thinks this is the most productive way to handle people? The example above is just one of many, it has happened a lot and killed much of the goodwill. So much more could be done with the personnel NJE already have if they just learned how to handle people properly.

That said if you go in with your eyes open, fly and go home you should be alright. Just don't expect too much of what you are told you will get to happen or remain unchanged.

[Scroll Lock]

Smeagal.

You really are a hypocrite, aren't you?

You slag Mr Jenvey off and accuse him of "not quite getting it", but ALL you do is rubbish your employer. You repeatedly say that the Netjets mangement read these pages, yet it is YOU who is always posting whinging and whining like a little girl.

Christ sakes boy, get a life and SHUT UP, GROW UP or just leave Netjets if it's that bad for you.
Or maybe you can't???.....

and I don't even work for Netjets.!!!!

:yuk:

[Smeagel]

Dear Scroll Lock. For the benefit of the female members of this forum we'll assume your 'little girl' comment wasn't meant to be insulting.

Correct me if I'm wrong didn't I just write that life at NJE was better than 'pure' bizjet work? Did I not write that the money is often better and that it is a more stable job? Have I not said before that the flying is interesting, the aircraft fairly new and on the whole the staff and crew good folk? I believe I have, both in this forum and in PM's to those who have approached me for my views.

I've alluded to it before but as it was seemingly not clear enough for you I'll spell it out. My mainly negative comments in here are an antidote to those who would have any applicants and new hires believe that it's absolutely perfect when it is not. There is good and bad. Is it fair to let these people make major career decisions without being in possession of all the facts? What if it were you?

I have posted comments both for and against choosing to work for NJE (with the negative bias acknowledged and explained) yet you opt to berate me. I trust you will be launching a similar broadside against, say, Mike Jenvey who has never once even tipped his hat to the less pleasant side of the company choosing always, as he has done in this thread, to sidle into the background when he is in danger of having to do so. This alone speaks volumes.

Frankly I am bored with having to explain such a fairly obvious and well documented situation and I am certain most of the other members of this forum are tired of reading it. Anyone seeking information on working for NJE can read this and the other threads and draw their own conclusions.

Should you (Scroll Lock) wish to continue this conversation then in deference to the other members of this forum I suggest you PM me.