Air Berlin!! UK Regional!!!

[david_wilding]

Apprantly Air Berlin are commencing regional UK flights from London Stansted to Manchester and Glasgow!!

Would like to see Eastern Airways' response to that!

[Buster the Bear]

Your source, I cannot see a link to your rumour?

Anyway, Stansted to Manchester, where is the yield?

Glasgow is already served by Globespan, Ryanair and easyJet.

Certainly the slots that Air Berlin would require to make these work would be difficult to obtain?

Please tell us more?

[Kestrel_909]

Check the airline's website, it's on there.
Airline's name followed by dot com. Not sure if I can post it, does it count as advertising?:ouch: :uhoh:

[david_wilding]

That's why I didnt originally post the website address! lol

[billyg]

It's not a rumour , the Glasgow service starts on 16th December and you can book GLA to 7 German destinations for £60 rtn. There are strong rumours that EZY are about to announce German routes from Glasgow and Air Berlin obviously want a piece of the action first.

[Re-Heat]

Link from FT for those interested:

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/1c0b3076-4cd7-11da-89df-0000779e2340.html

Additional mention of checking baggage through to final destination. Surely a lo-co first?

[Nil further]

billyg

i think it is more likely that ezy will pull out of scotland all together , those of us on the inside are being told that none of the routes make any money and that EDI is too expensive to operate from.

we have rolled over on every challenge to date unlikely to change this time ,Air Berlin are not daft and will have seen that we have no stomach for a fight .

Step change , my a**e.

NF

[Oshkosh George]

Can't really see them pulling out of EDI,they have a lot of routes there,and recently announced a new one, GVA. Glasgow is perhaps different.

[EK-LHR-LGW-GLA-MAN-B]

Can't really see them pulling out of EDI,they have a lot of routes there,and recently announced a new one, GVA. Glasgow is perhaps different.


Ermm not really, GLA has also just had GVA announced at the same time as EDI. No chance in hell of EZY pulling out of GLA.

[Mr A Tis]

we have rolled over on every challenge to date unlikely to change this time ,Air Berlin are not daft and will have seen that we have no stomach for a fight .

Well, call me sceptical, but no run up, no advertising,new routes launched with next to no notice 10 days before Christmas???
I wish them well, as AB are pretty good, a Loco with frills??? free snacks/soft drinks/ FF scheme & now interlining - certainly give Easy a run for their money.

[Buster the Bear]

I am dining on humble pie!

[Powerjet1]

Buster

Would this because of a rumoured AB from AGP & PMI into LTN for S06. Don't think so somehow.

[LTNman]

i think it is more likely that ezy will pull out of scotland all together

Can’t see easyjet pulling their Scottish routes from Luton.
Glasgow followed by Edinburgh are the 2 most popular routes by any airline from Luton and Easyjet has no competition on them either from LTN

[Buster the Bear]

No, for my comments earlier on this thread. One thing is for sure, you can never be surprised by the airline industry.

Ref the Luton rumour, not started by me, however, I am sure that it is an airline that the new airport operators would like to steal?

[nef]

NF,

It was only a few months ago that you were posting saying that EZY are definately planning to expand at GLA soon with new aircraft (A319s and even A321s!) and new routes. Now you're saying that none of their Scottish routes make any money and they might pull out of Scotland all together! It seems a bit of a drastic change in opinion if you don't mind me saying so.

Like the others, I find it difficult to believe that EZY will pull out of Scotland for many of the reasons listed. I could see them cutting routes at EDI to give BAA a fright if EDI is indeed to expensive for them.

Re. you saying that EZY have no stomach for the fight, it seems it is exactly what they DO have in launching GVA sercvices from EDI and GLA that almost exactly match those of GSM. Surely this is designed as an attack on GSM to push them out of EZY territory? If they were going to pull Scotland, I find it very odd they're launching these routes. Indeed, with the developments you were suggesting at GLA, I seem to remember you said the plan was to "get" GSM.

Tbh, If EZY are not making money from Scotland, it's their own fault. They've continuosly obsessed on taking on BA and other traditional carriers etc. on routes like London, Bristol, Belfast and Amsterdam, whilst completely ignoring unserved routes to Europe. In the meantime FR have have made a good hub for themselves at PIK with exactly such routes and GSM have beaten EZY to the high demand routes to the costas.

[Nil further]

nef

you are quite correct , i said that as that is what i believed at the time , i believe also that i am slightly better placed than you or some of the others here to know whats going on "insideeasyjet" .

I stand by what i said at the time and what i am saying now .Easyjets senior management have no interest at all in Scotland , that has been proven recently with certain dealings that were done with BAA GLA and the Glasgow City Council , which EZY reneged on at the last min'

I can assure you that most of the flight crew in GLA are keeping a very close eye on GSM and FR at PIK as that will be our lifeboat, we hope.

I foresee a situation in the near future where GLA and EDI are closed as crew bases and EZY's problem over 60 crew are nightstopped on split duty to cover the morning flights.

It is only a matter of time before FR operate a LTN-PIK and only a matter of time before GSM get more STN rotations on the go . All the while the EZY management focus on "un-rivalled opportunities in eastern europe" whilst they say they cant make money in Scotland due to the charges in EDI but are unable to even contemplate the fact that some routes might work out of GLA .

When i said that EZY would pull out of GLA and EDI i meant as bases for pilots , the LTN and STN routes will limp on for a while i am sure.

Yep it is a drastic change of opnion nef , sorry i had the orange blinkers on before !

To quote someone else reply to me earlier this year " A321 in EZY colours in GLA " more chance of snow in hell .

[Meeb]

Easyjets senior management have no interest at all in Scotland

Something I have always said too for ages... Scottie et all always seem to try and shout me down... :p

Nil Further... you are one the very few posters on PPRuNe that seem to have your finger on the pulse of what really goes on within the Aviation fraternity in Scotland... keep up the good work buddy... :ok:

[Scottie]

you are one the very few posters on PPRuNe that seem to have your finger on the pulse of what really goes on within the Aviation fraternity in Scotland..

You reckon do you? ;)

easyJet is very interested in Scotland, but only at the right price.

At the moment they can put airframes into other parts of Europe that will make them more cash. Given that situation what would you do? Go on, answer that question Meeb and don't duck it :} Would you run a business or a charity? ;)

Central Scotland has a paradox. There is spare airport capacity at GLA but the yield is in EDI where there is little excess airport capacity. Thus fees are high. Some airlines are willing to pay them. Good for them. easyJet sees better opportunities elsewhere.

When they get a deal they're happy with I'm sure they'll put airframes into EDI/GLA. Until then who knows....already they are winding down some services from GLA...but are they about to start a new one? ;)

i think it is more likely that ezy will pull out of scotland all together , those of us on the inside are being told that none of the routes make any money and that EDI is too expensive to operate from.

Depends what mood our illustrious bosses are in.

If they want you to dual base it\'s that the bases aren\'t sustainable unless you do 6 six sector days and dual basing.

If you catch them off guard it\'s yes the bases are very profitable and if we could get the A321\'s we could fill them.

Depends on what spin they want to put on it this week.....

[nef]

NF,

>>i believe also that i am slightly better placed than you or some of the others here to know whats going on "insideeasyjet"<<

I don't think I ever claimed you weren't - I merely commented on your significant change of opinion from earlier posts.

There is however one thing that puzzles me - Given the knowledge you obviously have you could maybe help me to understand? - If EZY have the problems in/attitude to Scotland that you describe, why are they starting EDI-GVA? I'm not doubting what you say, but it just seems a bit odd for them to be starting such a route if things are so bad.

[Buster the Bear]

Whilst easy are trying to balance 3 aircraft types in their fleet (300, 700 & 319), certain bases will lose out. Luton being one of them. Airbus base at Luton due in 2007 so little scope for expansion until then.

Rumour also has it that this winter could see the largest loss ever in easy history. Not my words, but those quoted from the 'shrink wrapped' H.Q. I think you will find that the recent re-shuffle at the 'top' reflects the need to savage costs?

The Icelandic's are waiting in the wings and the City will not allow the losses to perpetuate.

I was told that easy are flying full planes and lots of them and losing money due to the yields. The price of aviation fuel being blamed and this was in September! Again just rumour, but from a well validated source that i trust 100%.

Cash flow is the key to any business, easy will go where they can find it.

There was talk on here a while back that the reason the lo-Co's keep ordering new aircraft is by taking delivery, it makes them short term profit! They buy a new plane at a discount, immediately sell it on delivery for 'book' price, then lease it at the 'book' price rate which is obviously huge in comparison to leasing a discounted jet. This profit then appears every time a new Boeing/Airbus is delivered, but strategically, the airline pays inflated lease rentals over the long-term. I think this is known as 'short termism'?

[Meeb]

Come off it Scottie....
easyJet is very interested in Scotland, but only at the right price.

Having their cake and eating it springs to mind! No doubt BA would operate GLA - JFK... if the 'price was right'... :p

Its not about 'charity' either, its about respect for your loyal customer base... 2 words not in the orange handbook methinks... :rolleyes:

[Oshkosh George]

Maybe I just speak for myself,but I don't think Loco airlines have loyal customers! What I mean is this--if somebody cheaper comes along,I'll try it ,and if the service is good,I'll try it again--until the next new service comes along!

Obviously,you'll have ones you prefer,but basically it's about how much it costs.

I have previously taken a loco to STN,and flew loco onward from there,in preference to taking a direct more expensive flight from EDI. But I have plenty of time,and like visiting as many airports as possible!(and saving money!)

[Scottie]

Loyalty swings both ways. The market is very price sensitive in the Loco world.

Apart from allocated seating which GSM has and higher baggage allowances with EZY there is little if anything to differentiate the two products (I've flown with GSM 3 times).

So although GSM has done a lot for Scottish travellers as has been pointed out numerous times ;) how loyal would their customers be?

If your a loyal GSM fan and your flight was £20 cheaper with EZY compared to GSM to GVA who would you go with? EZY probably (depends how important allocated seating is to you) as that £20 is better in your pocket than GSM's. GSM aren't going to give you any airmiles or bonuses but you are going to see that the same flight is more expensive for a similar product.

Time and time customers want the lowest fair possible and don't really care who they fly with to get it. Not much loyalty there then....

EZY has neglected the market much to my annoyance! Perhaps they'll enter it one day but at the moment they're quite rightly putting those airframes where they can make the most money. Keeps my job secure and the shareholders happy.

No doubt BA would operate GLA - JFK... if the 'price was right'...

My point exactly, BA can make more money elsewhere so why start a GLA- JFK? easyJet could come into Scotland and clean up on continental routes. But if they're not going to make any or more money than elsewhere doing it then what would be the point?

The loyal customer base as you put it will be back if the price is right.

[LGS6753]

A bit of marketing-speak:

The word 'loyalty' doesn't figure when a purchasing decision is made purely on price. So what the airlines do (in common with other businesses) is to try and gain customer loyalty by other means. In Ryanair's model this is punctuality, in easy jet's model it is direct services to major airports. The likes of BA use more expensive methods like frequent flyer programs, but they are costed in to the ticket price, so they aren't 'loco'.

So customers' loyalty is only based on the product. I hope no-one's kidding themselves that any airline has loyalty to 'Scotland', or anywhere else, come to that. It's simply a case of economics.

However, if EZY are making a return on their GLA routes, they may well decide to continue operating them so that no competitor creeps up on them and establishes a presence under their nose. I'm sure there's some analyst at EZY and FR looking at route yields, and also wondering what they will do with all their new 738s/A319s if the economy hits the buffers, or if bird flu reduces economic activity.......

If that happens, they will need all the well-established routes possible, and will be very reluctant to open new routes/bases.

[shamrock7seal]

Air Berlin Summer 2006 plans...

Manchester - Bournemouth, London Stansted, Palma, Vienna

Glasgow- Bournemouth, London Stansted, Palma, Vienna

Edinburgh - Bournemouth, London Stansted, Palma, Vienna

London Stansted - Newquay, Manchester, Glasgow, Edinburgh

Newquay-London Stansted (connections onward to Spain/Germany)

This is in addition to their existing flights from these airports

[pwalhx]

Surely the idea of the Manchester - Stansted flights was to feed onward connections so why then start Vienna and Palma (which is already overcrowded).

Bournemouth however would be welcome from Manchester

[GoEDI]

Air Berlin Summer 2006 plans...

Woah there! Where did all the come from?!

[GROUNDHOG]

Love to see it but do the people at Newquay know about this, great to see them oust Ryanair but will now go straight to the horse to see what is happening!

[nivsy]

Dont know if this conversation topic has kinda gone off tread a bit...the fact of the matter is Air Berlin offer in a way a fairly unique product...that is....a potential to offer connecting flights to international destinations from Glasgow without the hastle of having to pick up bags and re-checkin again. Also with the allocation of seats and no doubt on ward boarding cards for connecting flights at a price that will in most occassions be favourable. However it is in the majority to German destinations and that is a market that Easy Jet dont really set their sights on...at least for the moment. Am i not right saying that Air Berlin already have a fairly good pressence at Stansted already? I can certainly never see Easy Jet offering through connecting flights 9far to much of liability for them to take on) and I wish Air Berlin all the best. Flown with them on numerous ocassions and can never fault them.


Nivsy