Fly-Ins - What do you want?

[G-APDK]

As the organiser of one of the more popular Fly-Ins in the UK, I am always keen to improve what we provide for our visitors and to attract more.

With my 2006 event planning underway I would like to hear what you like to see or do at a Fly-In and what would attract you such an event.

To put some sort of context on your thinking please do not enter the realms of airshows, stick with the Fly-In only concept. Also, like most things, we do have budget limitations so unless you are keen to enter into a sponsorship arrangement with us (open to serious offers!), please be realistic.

G-APDK
PS I'm not from the PFA

[Rod1]

I would like the organiser to join the PFA!

Rod1

[BossEyed]

What's to say (s)he isn't already a member? :rolleyes:

I'd like:

Interesting aircraft
Interesting people
Food available at non-ripoff rates
Cold & Hot drinks ditto
Flight planning & Weather data available on site (I might have come from a distance)
Knowledgable marshallers
Absolutely no yellow tabards
A good and easily accessible local area briefing if different requirements to the normal Pooley's etc. for other days of the year.

Oh, and whilst I'm asking for the moon on a stick, I'd also like:

The wind down the strip
CAVU
A free go in everyone else's aeroplane.

Thanks very much; looking forward to it already :ok:

[robin]

I suppose I'd like to see some sort of opportunity to speak with owners of similar types, and suppliers who can help me.

I like Popham's approach - a themed day but all invited

One thing I hate is where you have to book a slot time in advance. Given wx problems this year there is no way I could have even tried to guess the time of arrival or departure on the day, let alone days in advance

So if you are ruling out a display - that's fine with me, but there should also not be a time band, as happened at Kemble this year, where departures and arrivals were suspended for 'events'.

[CDH]

As the organiser of one of the more popular Fly-Ins in the UK, I am always keen to improve what we provide for our visitors and to attract more.

Forgive my ignorance G-APDK, but which Fly-in are you referring to?

[cubflyer]

G-APDK you do a great job within the limitations that you have!

Here is what I would like

Absolutely no slots! I dont like them but more to the point is that lots of the owners of interesting aircraft we want to see dont like them so dont come. People think they are restricted to getting there exactly on time- like was the case at one event, and dont realise that its a bit more flexible!

Grass and hard runway available

Good quality "Air Traffic" air to ground is good enough, as can be seen at Popham and at the Today's pilot fly -in. Tell Air Traffic that they can look at the booking-in/out log afterwards so they dont have to spend all of their time asking pilots for booking in/out details while others cant get a word in on the frequency. It should be minimum radio chatter.

Access for all to the aircraft parks

reasonably priced food/drink- like at Popham in the clubhouse.

All the hangars open for viewing- usually good at your event!

Minimal bureaucracy, no yellow jackets except for Marshallers (or Marshallers wear something else distinctive)

No limitations on flying time ie "artificial airfield closure" Its great to do evening flying and giving rides after the traffic has died down. Even better if "ATC" have gone home!

Thanks.

[DubTrub]

In general, there are too many variables to identify exactly what will satisfy everyone.

I personally prefer the GVFWE type fly-in rather than the PFA Rally type fly-in.

Agree with previous poster's thoughts: add camping under the wing is a must if overnighting.

[robin]

...oh and have some decent live Met facilities available on site.

[Windy Militant]

1) CAVU with the wind down the strip.

2) Not have to change runway direction half way through the day.

3) People to read the and follow the brief.

4)More people to volunteer to help with the Marshaling, the Barbeque and the Car Parking.

5) Less people moaning about the Marshaling, the Barbeque, the Toilets, the Car Parking and the Noise.

6) That one of my Aeroplanes is flyable next year so I can go to other peoples Fly-Ins so I can moan about the Marshaling, the Barbeque, the Toilets.

Yes I'm in the PFA and no I'm not talking about Rallying for Fun or whatever they've decide to call it. That is if they've decided that they 're even going to have one this year. ;)

[Rod1]

Yes the PFA have decided to have a Rally. No decision on which airfield, what to call it or even if it is to sub the running out to another organisation.

Rod1

[SlipSlider]

Agree with most of the above (especially no slots or hi-viz vests!) but no-one's so far mentioned fuel availability. At bigger venues probably a given, but at smaller or unusual venues can be a problem. I'm not talking about supplying tourers with large uplifts, but the puddle-jumpers like VPs, Lutons etc (or even Aeroncas :) ) whose range is limited and for whom a few litres can make all the difference.
Slip

PS 'DK: I'm also intrigued as to which fly-in you are referring to.....

[EastMids]

Many fly-ins do not charge a langing fee. Well guess what - I'm quite happy to pay a standard landing fee for the airfield concerned and if the airfield waives the charges would be happy to pay the same to enhance the fly-in experience. What I'm not prepared to do is pay some trumped up excessive fee for the honour of walking round a trade stalls and being able to use a few plastic porta-loos (I guess that rules out the PFA rally for me then!).

What I hope for is a friendly atmosphere without too much officialdom (I like to walk around and look at the other a/c, don't like cadets telling me where I can walk, don't like yellow jackets), catering at a fair price, appropriate aviating facilities (met, etc), and reasonably efficient handling (i.e. marshalling, ATC/FIS/Radio) whilst aviating.

Furthermore, no slots thankyou (club a/c availability can just be too unpredictable sometimes), and no departure or arrival windows / restrictions (sometimes I need to take the club a/c back outside of your departure window). I can live with doing the PPR thing, but don't ask for it days in advance as I can't always tell which a/c I'm going to be using.

[Windy Militant]

I can appreciate why people don't want slots however you have to look at it from the organizers point of view.
Having slot times means that you get a steady flow of arrivals.
This is a big safety consideration, if everybody arrives at once things rapidly turn into a shambles, including the marshaling and ground handling.
Some locations have limited parking so have to limit numbers for that reason.

Try running your own event! It's Bl**dy hard work but well worth it. Just think if people didn't put on events you'd have to stay at home and moan about the food and the toilets there. :ok:

[bingoboy]

Sorry have never understood the need for landing slots.

Most pilots are good at planning aproach (or are we saying that the current training regimes just don't turn em out as well as they used to what with radio not eyes being the main aid).

Landing slots by their very nature place pressures on pilots which need not be there.

I enjoy flyins with like minded folk, some entertainment if overnight is on offer and the ability to take in movements at one's ease with perhaps some good basic and food and facilities

[foxmoth]

many people don't like a fixed 'slot', how about something more flexible, perhaps we could call it an "intended arrival time" which would be negotiated beforehand to help with flow, but not be totaly binding.;)

[turniphead]

How about having a spot landing competition?

[Monocock]

What would I like from a fly-in?

1. Less pumped up high viz vest wearing jobsworths being patronising when I want to go and look around the visiting aircraft parking area.

2. A decent area for the kids to play in that is secure and supervised to allow parents to wander safe in the knowledge that their precious little ones aren't trying to Cellotape themselves to a prop somewhere.

3. A Met unit like the one at the G-VFWE. It was perfect considering the weather this year. Well done to the men on the stand.

4. No tarmac (it's for girls)

5. Minimum of £10 landing fees to know that I have contributed to the longevity of the success and survival of the strip I have visited.

6. Free landing fees for DubTrub when he demonstrates his "minimal air-time circuit"

7. No "banned arrival/departure times" due to displays. I arrived to two fly-ins this summer (one was two hours flight away) and was told not to land for another hour as a display was due to start. One was my fault. The long distance one was a mis-print on their website that had confused GMT and BST. Needless to say I was annoyed and made my feelings clear. I was asked not to return in future years!!

8. No stickers on aircraft. It is little short of vandalism. I had one placed on my tail (aircraft tail) this year without my permission and was so annoyed that I peeled it off and stuck it over the airfield's weather web cam lens. Guess the field!

9. Sausage baguettes in those nice well-buttered chewy baguettes.

10. Marshallers who understand that the gesticulation of "Follow your current direction" does not mean "Head towards me". This issue nearly put me in a ditch at Sandown earlier this year. Had I not been with the mild tempered Mike Cross at the time I would have told the chap what I thought:ouch:

11. Becky from Compton Abbas washing visiting aircraft in a bikini.

12. Cat Deeley with the chamois.

13. Yak pilots being asked to park well away from the rest of us as they seem to find it funny whe they start up at full throttle and blow every other aircraft away within 50 yards.:suspect:

As you will see, I'm not choosy or opinionated...

M

[Andy_R]

Bleeding Tory Boy :)

[Laundryman]

I'm a succour for a charity fly-in, the more worthy the better (probably some subconscious desire to justify my hobby) Even better if the charity concerned brings us closer to people who might have never had the opportunity of experiencing the hobby we take for granted.
I'm nearly always willing to show someone new to aviation around the cockpit and can sometimes be persuaded to take them for a quick spin to show them what its like.

[Flyrr100]

I used to be an instructor at Lakenheath. We'd always get an invite to the local fly-ins. We'd load up the Cherokees and Tomohawks with T-bones and serloins from the comissary. I think having five or six N registered aircraft full of strange americans arrive was fun for all!
I met alot of great guys at places like Shipton.
Good times.

[cubflyer]

I dont like having to pay landing fees at fly-ins if its just a small fly-in at a regular airfield, particularly where the airfield is benefitting a lot by extra custom, fuel sales restaurant sales, and particularly where the airfield puts little effort into the fly-in.
Most airfields dont charge when there is a fly-in. Some do.

I dont mind paying though when other organisations have put on a fly-in and have to hire the airfield and a lot of equipment to make the fly-in happen. Most of these events are the larger more interesting ones anyway. Similarly if its an airfield or a strip that has been opened up specially for the event.

A lot of the best small events at strips dont charge, but have good catering made by the locals offered at a reasonable price, but to make a profit and thus cover their expenses and perhaps make a donation to charity. You dont mind paying a bit extra if you know its good stuff and the profit going to a good cause, rather than buying grease burgers from the local rip-off mobile catering unit!

[slim_slag]

Provide a BBQ for people who want to bring their own food and free burgers for those that don't. I'd put more money in the tip jar than the burger cost, and buy fuel. If 100 people eat a free burger and don't pay for it you are only out £50, and you remember not to put money in their jar when they lay on the same welcome. You'd have far more people turn up, which is the whole point, flyins are not to make money just like you don't expect to make money when you hold a party at your home.

[G-APDK]

Firstly thanks for the responses to date. I have noted all your comments and I am assessing our own event against them to see how we measure up. An initial assessment looks promising, but I try not to rest on my laurels.

I do not intend to comment on every suggestion raised as some we have little or no control over e.g. weather, geography and local airfield operating requirements. However I would like to comment on the following:

Slot Times – As Windy Militant noted there are advantages to slot allocations. We use slots for the reasons given by Windy but try to be as flexible as possible with generous margins (+30 minutes). We try not to turn anyone away either who turns up outside their slot, but responsibility on the day is at the discretion of the ATC team (Aerbabe & co) and the local circumstances at the time.

Yellow tabards – Safety is a paramount consideration for us, for both visitors and our ground crews. In many cases local Health & Safety rules (and best practice) make tabards a requirement. Our ground crews always try to be polite and helpful, which is more than can be said about some pilots (non PPruners presumably!)

Interesting Aircraft/type gatherings – Our event always has type gathering (usually around a significant “birthday” or milestone) as a theme. Over the last few years we have hosted gatherings of Aeronca, Vans, Stampe, Mooney, Jungmann, Stearman, and Bonanzas, to name but a few. Last year the Egelsbach Club also joined us for the weekend.

We are always keen to host type or club gatherings and in 2006 the Piper Comanche and Chipmunk will feature at our event. If anyone wants to hold a group gathering at our event, please drop me a PM.

Finally we all have dreams, with generous donations in lieu of landing fees (ours are free), bikini clad hostesses, free food, perfect weather, no moaners etc on my list also, but we live in a real world.

I look forward to meeting some of you at our event at EGSX on 17-18 June 2006 (I hope that’s ok in the PPrune advertising rules), when you can see how we measure up against your own Fly-In requirements.

Phil
G-APDK

[robin]

Looks interesting

I do hope you think again about slot times - a +/-30 minute flexibility is nowhere near enough for me in the far SW. We are more like the gas man - we give an arrival time on the same day....perhaps!

[gbpck]

Our most popular and fun fly in this year was without doubt our Fancy dress fly in, we had half price landing fees - which caused a few little gripes until they were told it entitled them to Free Bacon Butties and Sticky Buns....

There weren't a huge amount of people flying in in fancy dress which was a bit of a shame, but all the staff were looking suitably rediculous and there was a fantastic atmosphere and lots of laughs

you mean u missed the bikini plane wash?? where were you!

egha

[EastMids]

Slot times (again!).

Over the year(s) we have tried to support as many fly-ins as possible, certainly the one G-APDK is involved with if I'm thinking correctly. I understand the desirability from an organiser's point of view, and the flexibility G-APDK's flyin at least seems to be prepared to provide.

However, as far as I'm concerned using a club a/c it just doesn't work. Take the example where the previous user of the a/c unexpectedly returns fifteen minutes late. As it happens, the a/c also needs fuel, so by the time that's done too and we're ready to go, we're already the best part of thirty minutes on the back side of the drag curve. All it then takes is ten minutes at the hold waiting for inbound jets, or a stronger headwind than we anticipated when we booked the slot (sometimes well in advance) and we've well and truely blown the slot. If on the other hand we book a later slot in anticipation of sods law being invoked on the day, we get glares from the club for having the a/c sat idle on a busy Saturday/Sunday for 45 minutes before we leave. Now I acknowledge that G-APDK says that they'd still try to be flexible but that its at ATC's discretion - well sorry, but I'm not flying half way across the country chasing a slot I might or might not make, and then find that ATC can't accommodate us if we miss it.

Like I say, we've tried to support many flyins over the years, but slot times are the biggest turn off - to be honest, as far as I'm concerned if there's two events the same day and one needs slots, the one without slots wins, and if there's only one event a $100 burger somewhere else probably wins too.

Andy

[dublinpilot]

Do they really turn you away if your miss your slot time? Or is it more of a case of "do your best to be here around that time"?

I've only ever been to one event that I needed a slot time for, and was there on time. Having said that, many arrived well after the last official slot time, and were happilly accepted.

So, has anyone ever actually been turned away for missing a slot time? Exclude for this events where you are told there is a display comencing at 12:30pm, and you must be on the ground befor 12:00pm, and you actually turn up at 1pm.