WIHIH at KAL?

[ukwannabe]

Any truth to the rumours that there have been two very serious incidents resulting in severe damage to two B744's recently due to exreme pilot error. Also, are 'the lunatics now running the asylum' with respect to the new wave ofpilot recruitment, vis-a-vis the locals running the sim selection. I ask because I don't know, but am curious!

[Airbubba]

If KAL needs advice on how to run an airline they can call Delta for more consulting...

[moosp]

Nice point 'Bub. That report was a while ago though, and airlines can change.

Anybody know if KE has had a LOSA audit in the last few years? Those guys are pretty objective on standards.

[laxcax23]

why cant you elaborate more ukwannabe or otherwise stop spreading such rubbish. Thanks. I say rubbish because such alleged incidents have simply not happened. I jut wonder who paid you to make up such rubbish as usually seen here :rolleyes:

[TAC On]

MOOSP

If you mean IOSA. Yes they have and were lauded at the time as being the first airline to get to the post on the first run.

TO

[ukwannabe]

I do apologise lax... but I thought this was a rumours forum. If I have stepped out of line then I apologise. If incorrect then no need to be so vitriolic, maybe touched a nerve?

[Voeni]

ukwannabe, no need to apologise, this is a rumours forum.

think too, there's a nerve touched. anyway, unfortunately far too many people like laxcax23 in here, who react rude when someone's expressing his opinion or thoughts.

[Austrian Simon]

ukwannabe,

I am not sure, whether your question refers to rather recent incidents (that I am not aware of) or whether those incidents are a couple of years ago. Since year 2000 I don't see any incidents or accidents listed ...

Fact is, that Korean Airlines lost a couple of airplanes, amongst them two B747s due to serious pilot errors:

December 22nd 1999: A B747 freighter crashed near London Stansted, after the captain could not cope with one failed ADI and rolled the airplane to 90 degrees of bank, the copilot did not detect the attitude either. All 4 people on board killed.

August 6th 1997: A B747 passenger flight crashed on approach to Guam into the Nimitz hill, as the captain followed in invalid glideslope indication. 228 of 254 people on board were killed.

Other accidents attributed to pilot error or crew cooperation issues were:

April 15th 1999: a MD11 cargo plane took off Shanghai, when the captain believed the airplane had climbed too high above cleared altitude and abruptly threw the airplane into a dive, from which the airplane could not be recovered anymore despite cooperative efforts of both pilots. All 3 on board and 5 on ground were killed.

March 15th 1999: a MD83 overran the runway in Pohang, South Korea, in poor weather. No fatalities.

August 5th 1998: A B747 slid off the runway at Seoul after bouncing. No fatalities.

September 22nd 1994: A hail damaged B747 barely cleared buildings on takeoff from Zurich airport, when the crew did not observe gross weight limits and increased reference speeds following an initial repair of the hail damage by Boeing.

August 10th 1994: An A300 overran the runway at Cheju (South Korea) after landing high and fast, touching down 1773 meter past the runway threshold. The airplane departed the runway at a speed of 104 knots. No fatalities.

Simon

[laxcax23]

Time to move on guys and stop living in the 90s. Things have changed, surely testiment that safety has done a 180 here. You can call it luck or whatever but that can be said about any airline and is just a convenient excuse for the cynics. Voeni & UkWannabe you talk about nerves, what I do find frustrating is having never come across any poor standards here personally in 3 years and have seen nothing but professionalism from all I have come into contact with, both locals and professionals and yet its guys like you who try and bad mouth world class airlines like KAL. So I ask you again, can you elaborate on your rumour ? Surely you must know something we all dont as you were the one who started this thread. So stop hidding behind the curtins...details please !

[ukwannabe]

Well lax... I was there a wee while longer than you. Alteon were very professional on the whole, and a delight to be trained by, no complaints there. There were a number of local guys who were also a delight to fly with, both skippers and f/o's. The aircraft were well maintained and the dispatch/operational arena was also very professional.
But I did see some really dangerous unprofessional and incompetent actions by some of the locals.
So lax... if you are still there now, what happened to the B744s that have RECENTLY been damaged to the tune of millions of dollars.
I still consider the airline to be too dangerous to allow family to travel on, my opinion lax..
Sorry if the truth hurts, so does a 2g+ landing!
(Clue, lax...go arounds and landing incidents)
Though I am sorry if I touched on a raw nerve, I think world class airline is pushing it a bit? Remember the Boeing operational philosophy is based around allowing a third world airline to operate their aircraft. This and a HUGE element of luck has saved KAL on numerous occasions. If you disagree with me then that is your perogative, just talk to the QA guys they speak the truth and it's scary, their words not mine.
Remember lax... this is a rumours forum, I am not spreading malicious untruths, just asking questions, maybe you just don't like the answers.

[the_hawk]

Well fact is until now nobody has come up on this thread with knowledge of your supposed incidents, so let's wait and let the rumour live...

May I add a question loosely related to the topic: ASN (http://aviation-safety.net/) draws a distinction between Korean Air Lines KAL and Korean Air (with Korean Air having e.g. the Guam accident). Are these 2 different organizations? How do those 2 relate?

[G-CPTN]

>Well fact is until now nobody has come up on this thread with knowledge of your supposed incidents, so let's wait and let the rumour live...

Hope it wasn't THIS:-
http://www.hackermovies.de/moviefiles/HM_RacingBeats.wmv

[caracaskid]

As a SLF travelling with Korean in the near future and also a safety consultant with an interest in air travel, I cannot say I feel very happy with people who put scaremongering posts on these boards without adding any corroboration at all. Whilst I understand that it is a rumour and news forum even a rumour ought to have some degree of substantiation before being propagated. If there is even a degree of truth in this as a rumour then the authorities ought to be alerted not simply a rumour spread. A rumour of this nature doess nothing to improve airline safety

[Petrusflyer]

laxcax23. This is a rumours board so wind your neck in please. Rubbish not. I think one of the incidents referred to happened in October, the ASR is open at the moment. The Captain involved tried to go around after taking over control from the F/O but they touched down during this manoeuver so he decided to stop the go around and stay on the runway?! But he only closed three thrust levers and initiated reverse thrust on those whilst the fourth was trying to supply go around thrust, directional control was lost but at a point on the runway where there was a high speed turnoff....very very fortunate. The other could be where the flaps were damaged on a go around at NRT, though the weather was pretty poor there.
There are incidents all the time here, and the QA department as are the rest of us, are powerless to do anything. Think very carefully before coming, it will only get worse.

[ukwannabe]

laxcax23

Any news on these two incidents, as well as the other B744 incident. As posted on Flight International?! I'm not spreading malicious rumours, just curious.

An MD-82 overrun at Ulsan adds to Korean Air's catalogue of woe
Korean Air's (KAL) battered safety record suffered another blow on 30 September when a Boeing MD-82 landing in wet weather at Ulsan Airport overran the runway by 150m (470ft), less than two months after another major incident at Seoul involving a KAL Boeing 747-400.

According to the airline, three of the 142 passengers aboard the domestic flight from Seoul were injured during evacuation, while the aircraft suffered minor damage. Independent sources say the KAL aircraft suffered a collapsed main gear, suspected wing damage and engine ingestion.

KAL, in the meantime, is trying to secure a full $155 million insurance payout on the 747-400, which was heavily damaged after veering off the runway at Seoul. The airline contends the aircraft is a write off, while Boeing has assessed the cost of repair at just under $100 million.

[flyguykorea]

An MD-82 overrun at Ulsan adds to Korean Air's catalogue of woe

Are you kidding? 1998 my friend. Perhaps your version of FI is a little outdated?

[ukwannabe]

my apologies if I posted icorrectly, but I was only posting what was on yesterdays flight international website. But I don't think I was.

[Algy]

This is what is in Flight International (http://shortlinks.co.uk/7c)

It's from October 1998 as stated.

[the_hawk]

It is quite helpful to read this thread again after that was made clear.
Maybe it's also helpful to change the thread title from "WIHIH at KAL now?" to "WIHWH at KAL then?" :rolleyes: