Leaving

[leavingonajetplane]

Hi guys. I'm an RAF ATCO with 15 years controlling experience. Most of this (9years) has been Area but I have done terminal and instructional tours as well. I'm thinking about coming out next year and I'm looking for any advice you might be able to offer regarding getting into 'Civvy' controlling. I know enough to know that I don't fancy leaving my family for 12 months to train at Bournmouth. Her indoor is well hacked off with moving all the time so I'd also like to find a place and go there, not sign a form for NATS declaring myself 'mobile' so that I could be sent anywhere again. Does anyone know if there are any 'shortcuts' out there at the moment.:ok:

[spekesoftly]

Based on the assumption that you are interested in UK civil ATCO employment but don't yet hold a CAA ATCO licence, a few observations:-

If you were fortunate to be accepted by NATS (the competition is stiff) for ATCO training, you would be paid a reasonable salary and allowances, whilst under training, and virtually guaranteed a job on successful completion. NATS ATCO T&Cs are better than most, and though a 'mobile grade', in practice, far less mobile than you will have experienced in the RAF.

Contrast the alternative of having to pay for all your training and licencing, and then hunting for employment. It can and has been done, your choice.

[Spitoon]

You'll also know enough to know that
1) If you haven't got a civil licence you're going to have to do about 12 months training somewhere.
2) You'll have trouble finding a training course leading to a UK Area ticket from another college. Don't forget that the college training soon becomes worthless if you don't do any practical training.
3) If you want to benefit from whatever experience you have gained in 9 years doing Area that pretty much the only employer that you might be able to work for is NATS.
4) Those other employers in the UK that might be attracted by Area qualifications will probably also want Aerodrome and Approach experience - and their sort of Approach is not the Terminal Control type!
5) If you've never done Aerodrome Control then you're virtually starting from scratch. I've never been in the mil but I've trained a few ex-mil people and I gather that mil style Tower is rather different to the civil style and the skills may not be transferable anyway.

You want advice about getting into 'Civvy' controlling. As far as I know there are no shortcuts - you get trained to do the 'Civvy' job and then work for someone. I've seen enough people who thought that because they'd been mil controllers they'd sail through this process - one or two did, a lot more struggled. In the end I think it mostly came down to attitude.

I suggest you do a bit more research.

[leavingonajetplane]

Thanks for the advice guys, I will probably apply soon. I do however, think you may both have gotten the wrong end of the stick. What I meant was, I do want to work for any be trained by NATS however, there are quite a lot of ex mil controllers out there who got in by other methods. i.e. paying for a Twr ticket then working at a NATS Twr and being sponsered to do approach. Or, in the Area world, doing a shorter course. Or being offered a job subject to completion of a given course. The ONLY reason either of these options appeal to me is, quite simply, I don't want to have to leave my family for 12 months in one go. (My wife and daughter have medical issues) A month or 3 at a time is not a problem, but moving all of us down to Bournemouth would be a bit of a distraction and would hinder my training.

I am fully aware that NATS is not easy to get into, and how good they are as employers. I would not be here otherwise. I am also aware that if successful I would probably end up at Swanick, not my first choice, but its a job! I just need to know what my options are before I commit to 12 months enforced separation, thats all.

Therefore:

Is it possible to do these courses independantly if so wahat are the costs?

Assuming a pass, and I know its not a foregone conclusion, is there work available out there? How easy is it to get? Does the pay compare?

If I do apply to NATS, assuming I'm not too old and knackered, will my previous experience count for something or will it go against me in the selection process?

You mentioned 'other' colleges. Who runs these and where are they?

Thanks again, but my fault for not being specific enough.:8

[vincehomer]

Leaving,


I wish you the very best of luck but, I really think you have missed the boat. (pun intended). You are going to have to bite the bullet and get your ar$e down to Bournemouth. There are people much younger than you, queing up to get into NATS. If I had the choice of offering employment to a young 20 year old with about 30 years of service ahead of him/her, or a knackered ex military guy, coming with all the baggage, I bet I know who I'd employ.

I think the only other option would be to spend a lot of your hard earned gratuity on paying for courses and getting some "non NATS " airfield to "sponsor " you.

Either way, you should have jumped when you were about 25 after your first post JATCC tour. If you have 15 years experience you are obviously well on your way to 40 and learning new tricks at your age!

Sorry to sound so negative, I really do wish you the best of luck and will be interested to hear how you get on. Try going for a non-controlling job. NATS has lots of those as does Eurocontrol. Either that or take up plumbing!

Good luck

[Damocles]

Leaving,

Before you exchange your headset for a blowtorch - check your PMs. :ok:

[leavingonajetplane]

Thanks vincehomer, maybe I should just put the zimmerframe on request for my retirement and quietly lie down and die.
I really hope I don't get someone like you on my interview board! Maybe my CV should read '

Experienced controller with a proven track record of endorsing in a variety of high intensity environments. Also exceptionally adaptable and capable of reacting well in high stress situations.

And maybe the cv of your 'younger man' should read,

'spotty herbert as wot 'as just passed a univertitty course a 2 year old could do. I got a good mark too...15% ! No track record in anything except drinking super strength lager since the age of 10 and hanging around on street corners trying to look 'ard.

[matspart3]

The other colleges are BAE Systems Dundridge College in Cwmbran and ASTAC at Rudloe Manor (and soon to be Gloucestershire Airport). A Google search will probably find both.

It's worth talking to both of them, who'll give you a realistic idea of what's involved

[Gonzo]

Leaving,

Not all doom and gloom!

I was once one of those...'spotty herbert as wot 'as just passed a univertitty course a 2 year old could do. I got a good mark too...15% ! No track record in anything Although I never even went to university and I can spell. I and my colleagues have been training an ex-RAF FC who is perhaps your age, and he will be fully qualified by Christmas.

[leavingonajetplane]

Did you say an FC? Good lord I thought it would be hard to train one of them to walk and talk at the same time!
Its not JW from bandbox by any chance?

[tired-flyboy]

As an ex boy in blue with only a few years in the mob (airfield and Area) the transition is not too bad.

The hardest part of the job is getting all the damn strips to help you!!!

Seriously though, to get into NATs you'll go the same route as everyone else - Aptitude test, selection interview, medical - but you'll already know this.

you'll find the book work tedious (as you'll think you know it - there are subtle differences that'll catch you out), the radar work will be fairly easy (after all the mil ONLY use radar - we don't have enough pointy things !!) The hardest part is getting used to planning from strips.

In all, you've got a lot of experience you shouldn't let it got to waste. But remember at the moment NATS are only looking for Area and TC (predominately), but there are some tower jobs out there (if you fancy LL etc)

PM if you want any more info.

ps been to uni as well and i still can't spell (even with ISS!!)

[5milesbaby]

The NATS route can be a big pain in the ar$e but if you like where you are sent then the likelyhood of a move is very slim. If you go area remember that it'll be only Prestwick or Swanwick, and tower positions are secured at many airfields but may be lost in future at some when the contracts come up for renewal. I'd say the good thing about going into NATS is the pay and the pension/WP's. However I do know a couple of guys that have done the private training and are now at an independant airfield doing APP/TWR and getting a good return having spent a few years there. It all depends what you want to do, I'd personally say that 12 months spent in Bournemouth and then another move is worth the hassle for the benefits that NATS can give in return once valid, but I'd never want to say don't look for positions outside of NATS as I know a good life can exist there too!

Hope that helps, PM me if you want a few more exact numbers to make your mind up :ok:

[Gonzo]

Leaving, no it's not JW