unruly/disgruntled pax

[Shiny side down]

At what point would you get police involved?

We had a situation with a pax some time ago. My captain whose english is not so good asked me to have a chat with him. By this point he had mouthed off at the cabin crew due to a request by a CC to be a bit more restrained in his behaviour.

At the time, I didn't feel it warranted police intervention on arrival. I'm still not sure if it did. The emphasis being not sure.

Post flight took 1 1/2hours due him. He was picking arguments with anyone who didn't agree immediately with his point of view.

[Old Smokey]

You call in the police when any criminal act has been commited, or, when the police are available (e.g. on the ground), to contain a problematic situation. In flight, it is the Captain who has the authority to contain a problematic situation. This is usually by delegation, and is far better delegated to the Cabin Crew. In my view, your Captain's decision to send you to a possibly dangerous in-flight situation was extremely poorly judged.

Reading between the lines of your post, a criminal act did occur, i.e. verbal abuse of the cabin crew. In MOST countries, verbal abuse constitutes Assault, which IS a criminal act.

Regards,

Old Smokey

[Ignition Override]

Well, the guy should handle it.

[None]

If the passenger refuses to comply with the instructions of the crew (cabin crew/flight crew), the passenger represents a threat. In most cases, the cabin crew will be successful in defusing the situation.

Inflight, if the lead Flight Attendant says the problem cannot be resolved, our procedures are, as Old Smokey states, to never leave the cockpit.

If the lead has a problem on the ground, and requests the passenger be removed, while I trust their judgement 100%, I am now required to convene a Security Conflict Team, so that I am not alone in my decision to remove the pax (I am certain this is due to our legal department's input). Regardless, the passenger will likely be removed.

[Shiny side down]

Thanks for the replies.

Based on the report from the senior, whose judgement is reliable and who in general is unflappable, it seemed appropriate that someone in a slightly higher authority get involved.

Due to the language difficulty, that meant me. When I say the captains english was not so good, I mean this in the context of the situation. He can communicate very well in english(plus several other languages). But when you et into an emotionally elevated discussion, accents can mask the language used, making quick comprehension difficult, and maybe causing the situation to worsen.

Even after discussing the situation with the pax, he wasn't happy. He wasn't 'hands on aggressive', just what you might call bolshy. And loud about it.

At no point did I feel that there was a flight safety impact. Just a case of an unhappy person.

Would calling the police be an over reaction? If they are called, what would then be required? Would it be a protracted situation for weeks to come, for something fairly minor, that should be avoidable if the pax was receptive?

Unfortunately, you see similar things everyday these days. It just takes on different level of importance 6miles up in a metal tube.

[sikeano]

why did you not give the pax a glasgow kiss for his troubles
'ere mate 'ave it
:ok:

[flapsforty]

Shiny for what it's worth, here's how your scenario would play out in our mob.

Pax gets bolshy, Purser informs Captain about it.
Purser tries to calm down pax to no avail and then hands pax a Notice of Violation.
In the NoV it's clearly stated that the Pursers request is made on behalf of the Captain, and that a Cpatain's orders are legally binding on an AC. It also contains a description of the behaviour that causes offense and an order to cease and desist immdeiately.
Of pax doesn't comply (if handed over at an early enough stage, the NoV works like a charm by disengaging the personal aspect from the altercation and scaring the living daylights out of the pax) next stage is contacting the police at the port of arrival and leave it upto them.

(as Old Smokey says, these days verbal abuse of CC gets considered a criminal act, and as the other posters have said, these matters should be left entirely to the CC. It has never ever occurred to me to ask a pilot to leave the cockpit to my job. And after sept 11th, they wouldn't anyway)