HF Radio

[FullyFlapped]

Guys,

Anyone know who supplies HF radios for GA aircraft in the UK ?

Also have the same question regarding satellite phone systems, but I don't want to push my luck ! ;)

Cheers !

FF :ok:

[A and C]

Any Bendix/king dealer will be happy to help but I would asvise that you talk to someone with an airline background because HF is so unusual in GA in the UK you want the guys fitting it to know and have worked with HF systems.

I would recomend Lees Avionics at Booker the boss was an aprentice with British Airways and so will have seen a HF set or two !.

[FlyingForFun]

Sorry - can't help. But I am curious..... why?

I'm sure you have a perfectly good reason for wanting HF (and satellite phone), I'm curious what it might be because it sounds like it could be interesting!

FFF
------------------

[mad_jock]

You could try far north Aviation in Wick.

Andy deals with quite alot of ferry pilots. There are some quite bizarre looking bits of wire hanging off some of the aircraft going through wick.

[FullyFlapped]

Thanks guys, I'll give your suggestions a call.

FF :ok:

[UL730]

Getting an HF endorsement on a standard VHF RT license is an interesting procedure.

Other side of the equation :hmm:

[FullyFlapped]

UL730,

Getting an HF endorsement on a standard VHF RT license is an interesting procedure.
Care to expand please ?


FF :ok:

[UL730]

If you look at a typical PPL's Flight RadioTelephony Operator's (Restricted) Licence - you will find on the reverse side under Conditions:

- VHF Only-

In my days, pre JAA - I was told to operate HF radio you needed to pass a separate practical and theoretical test through an authorised examiner to legally operate on HF frequencies. I contacted the CAA about a little trip we were organising to Oshkosh from UK and a very helpful man sent me away with the advice " Go forth young man and pass the CPL Radio Aids exam, pass the CAA practical test and we'll see what we can do for you". This involved studying incredibly interesting subjects like electro magnetic radiation, speed of propagation, phase, frequency bands, modulation, SSB, sky waves, frequency prediction charts, SELCAL et al.

HF is very expensive both to hire and buy. Installation needs to be done through the correct "channels" unless you are operating a portable set, which IMHO isn't the best. The antenna is a marvellous contraption.

I've flown in some pretty quiet places as far as VHF line of sight comms are concerned and HF is a comfort! It was possible to route calls via BT at Goonhilly to landlines. Very expensive but an additional way of keeping in contact. :uhoh:

I would guess that LASORS has reams of up to date info and this would be a natural port of call.

[FullyFlapped]

UL730,

Excellent info - many thanks !

FF :ok:

[UL730]

Once you have got your head around all the theoretical stuff the actual toys look like this (http://www.avionix.com/hf.html)

Enjoy ;)


Note the mandatory FAA warning on the Kenwood EA-480

[FullyFlapped]

Bl**dy hell, they're not exactly giving this stuff away, are they ?

UL730, I take it I'm looking at something like the $40K+ variety to cope with most trips to far-flung places ? If so, I wonder if you can rent this stuf rather than buy it ....

FF :ok:

[UL730]

I'm very conscious that this is Danny's site and he has a legitimate interest in the scope of commercial recommendations and advertising. I posted the link on "the toys" a little tongue in cheek and would not be surprised if BRL edited this.

It is possible to rent HF radios. :ok:

[IO540]

I know zero about aircraft shortwave kit but many years ago, in the late 1960s, I was in an amateur radio club and we used various SW (known as HF here) kit.

Surely one can just put a SW transceiver on the back seat, without having to get approvals? The antenna would be more of a challenge... So long as any use takes place outside the UK FIR, the CAA will not be affected. The whole idea of this is for long range comms, temporary installation.

[mm_flynn]

On a recent long range trip I rented my satphone from these guys. here (http://www.gmpcs-uk.com/products/iridium/iri_rentals.htm). I didn't need it as relays worked the whole way. However, it was very comforting to know I had continuous coms capability.

[Whopity]

Try ICOM at Herne Bay http://www.icomuk.co.uk

Adding HF to your FTRTOL assuming you have a PPL, is quite simple, one 16 question exam with a RTF Examiner designated HF+VHF. If you have a CPL then there is nothing to do as the FRTOL is not limited to "VHF only".

[FullyFlapped]

Brilliant,

Thanks everyone !

FF :ok:

[outlawuk]

Hi all, this is my first ever post on PPRuNe.
As regards satphones I'd suggest that you forget about Globalstar and also Inmarsat but consider Iridium which since it re-launched post-bankrupcy about 4 years ago has been giving 100% reliable sterling service. A handheld phone will cost about £1,300 new with calls to anywhere on the planet from anywhere being $1 per minute. Have a look a www.iridium.com and of their list of accredited dealers I use Selex who used to be Marconi Marine. There are specialist aviation units available also but I daresay the prices add a nought or two onto the price! Typically uou will pay £15 /month for the line. Note that Inmarsat (viz: Inmarsat Mini-C being the cheapest equipment) generally don't charge ANY line charge though the calls are more expensive and the equipment is more expensive and buying an auto geostationary-sat tracking radome to your aircraft would be a very expensive option. With Iridium the 66 sats pass overhead you so the antenna is a simple omnidirectional one much like an external GPS antenna. Iridium however truly is global and the calls don't even come down to earth until they are overgead the USA as the satellites pass-the-parcel the calls from each other across the planet to go back to USA. That's why the US DoD like it so much, as the countries underneath can't even tap into the calls. Iridium is now Massive with the US military.
Globalstar is not global, it panders to the concept of allowing numerous nation specific service providers (who own their gateways) to charge different rates to different nationalities and even Globalstar cannot guarantee that any phone will work in any specific country as some countries block some other countries. I think an Israeili registered phone won't work in Saudi, things like that. This was all an unfortunate by-product of getting every country to permit the system to become operational and ultimate control of who gets access was ceded to each state. When I went to Egypt they could only say try it and see which was a waste of time so I took my Iridum. The one advantage of Globalstar is that you can buy an Ericsson R290 phone on eBay or elsewhere for about £200 and if you have a Vodafone UK contract SIM card (it only works with them) you can roam onto the Globalstar network, but for a price. It is a genuinely cheap occasional/emergency option though. The phone is also a 900Mhz GSM dual mode phone but it doesn't have EFR voice codec so the audio is flat and bit muffled and it won't use 1800Mhz cell sites. In Globalstar mode however the R290 will flatten the battery even on standby in about 3 hours. Iridium phones last 24hrs to 3 days depending on battery. There are other very practical advantages to Iridium but I woulnd't want to bore tou all! Especially in my first post.

As for HF there is a cheaper option than 40K Collins HF gear. This won't be of any use if you want to speak to ATC units via HF but if you were content to have long-range communications with radio amateurs to raise an alarm say, or family/friends then I'd suggest you look at www.rsgb.org and consider the relatively new Foundation Licence which you can obtain after only one weekend of training. The licence gives access to all amateur HF bands with the exception of 28Mhz which means you can use 1.8, 3.5, 7, 10, 14, 18, 21, 24Mhz.
Aeronautical Mobile operation has always been legal (indeed you just use your own amateur callsign with /AM tacked onto the end) and there being no specific requirements as to installation of the equipment you can use any 13.8V amateur transceiver. Most (but do check on models) can be modified by removing one wire link or diode etc to be able to transmit on any HF frequency between 1.8-30Mhz. Have a look at www.mods.dk I think it is. I have a small HF transceiver in my car which will transmit any freq 1.8-30Mhz though of course I only use it on the amateur bands myself. Look for the following manufacturers:
Yaesu, Icom, Kenwood, Alinco both global sites and UK sites and the main dealers in the UK are Waters and Stanton, Martin Lynch, Nevada. If you look at those sites you will find no shortage of information. In fact the HF rig sold by that American navaid dealer someone else posted a reference to is only one of the Kenwood transceivers with the modification to transmit all bands. Also consider a marine HF transceiver (see Icom) or the Alinco DX-701 I have in my car because they are chanellised rather than free tuning which makes it MUCH safer to change freq whilst on the move. You can re-program the radios at a moments notice if need be so it is easy to put in a selection of amateur freqs and also aero or marine freqs also. I've started PPL training myself (now 8 hours Wow!! hoping to get PPL by mid-feb doing 3 hours per week) at Shoreham and intend to add the HF addition to my R/T licence just for the fun of it because of my interest in HF generally.
I hope I havent infringed any rule against advertising.
Good luck. Dominic G4SLW

[IO540]

Great informative post outlaw, the sort that is needed here, and good luck with your training!

[Dimensional]

Aeronautical Mobile operation has always been legal (indeed you just use your own amateur callsign with /AM tacked onto the end)

Not too sure about that outlawuk, as according to my copy of BR68/F (licence terms for a Foundation Licence)...

2(6) The Licensee shall not establish or use the Station on any vessel, other than in Inland Waters, or in any aircraft or other airborne vehicle.

Even a Full Amateur Radio Licence won't let you use any form of amateur radio from an aircraft (BR68 (Full) para 2(14) refers). Unless there's some get-out clause somewhere for holders of a FRTOL?

--D

[outlawuk]

Oh dear, how wrong I was. I just checked my BR68 and see that under rule 2(14) aeronautical mobile operation is not allowed. You are right, I take it all back. I got my licence some years ago and read quite a few US amateur radio books and it IS legal over there. At least it was legal when the books were written. But indeed, it is not legal in the UK. Sorry to give duff information. I just learned something. In which case the only real choice for long range communications from the air would be a satellite phone. Iridium most likely.
Having said that, only recently I saw a bizarre photo of the interior of a (USA) hams Cessna 152 I think with his Elecraft K1 (a CW - morse code only mode HF kit-transceiver) fixed to the top of the panel with bungee cords. I'm amazed he hasn't crashed.
Dominic

[javelin]

If you are going somewhere far, far away, like Australia, you could get away with VHF by relays to passing traffic. There are only a few places where HF would be required and a small aeroplane would be struggling for range then. Good luck !

[got caught]

Seems to ring a bell from "Fate is the Hunter"

Seem to recall Mr G describing the trailing of an antenae from pre-war commercial aircraft. I think he once used it to gauge his height !