AUSTRALIAN AIRLINES discussions (All Bases)

[TightSlot]

AUSTRALIAN AIRLINES discussions (All Bases)

[Sonique]

Australian Airlines this week announced the introduction
of twice weekly services, subject to government approval, between Sydney
and Phuket in time for the Christmas holiday season. The announcement was
made on Tuesday in the lead up to Australian Airlines' third birthday
celebrations yesterday. The airline will commence the special Boeing 767
services to the holiday destination with a return fare from $1241. These
regular scheduled services will operate on Tuesdays and Saturdays from 3
December until 31 January and should demand be sufficient a year round
operation will be considered.

AO also pulling out of MEL-DPS and PER-DPS temporarily due poor loads.

[QF skywalker]

AUSTRALIAN AIRLINES TO SUSPEND SOME BALI SERVICES

Australian Airlines today announced it would suspend some of its services to Bali from 10 November.

Australian Airlines Chief Executive Andrea Staines said services to Bali from both Perth and Melbourne would be suspended until 29 January.

“We have taken this decision in line with the decrease in demand for Bali following the bombings on 1 October,” Ms Staines said. “However, we are confident Australians will return to Bali in increased numbers as they have done in the past.

“We will continue to monitor demand and will increase capacity accordingly.”

Ms Staines said Australian Airlines currently operated seven weekly services from Australia to Bali.

“From 10 November, we will suspend our two weekly services between Perth and Bali and two weekly services between Melbourne and Bali,” she said.

“Australian Airlines will continue to operate three services each week between Sydney and Bali.”

Ms Staines said customers with reservations on cancelled Australian Airlines flights would be accommodated on other services.

The twice-weekly return Qantas service between Darwin and Denpasar will operate as normal.



I see some of the roster patterns have changed now. New RP 41 has crew operating CNS-SYD-DPS in one day. Two days rest in DPS. Then DPS-SIN-DPS then another day off then ops DPS-SYD-CNS in one hit. Can't figure out if this will be a good trip or not !

[mostie]

"can't figure out if this will be a good trip or not !"



I Can..........:}

[RaverFlaver]

I have that very trip on my next roster, however one small difference, DPS/SYD-pax-CNS, not operate all the way through like we have been doing, which is much better. At least operating all the way CNS/SYD/DPS is a day flight and not back of clock, so it wont really be that bad. I prefer this as opposed to the other way round.

Yay - finally the opportunity to cancel pax and stay in SYD on days off. Can't remember the last time we were able to do this!

RaverFlaver :)

[Ranjha83]

i heard of a rumour, ao is doing a big recruitment, true?

any update?

thanx

[airbus_galley_girl]

Is it true Australian Airlines will be soon made into Jet Star International, I've heard this from alot of people. Any inside information from Crew? :confused:

[QF skywalker]

No announcement.... if any on this matter.

It may happen....it may not. Yes QF have announced plans for Jetstar Intl but AO has not been mentioned. The only people questioning AO's existence out loud is the media - a reliable bunch !

It seems everyone is an expert on what is going to happen to AO. But the fact remains that the only people who know what is going to happen is the QF board.

Another rumour at the moment is an annoucment in the next few days of AO taking over one of the two CNS-NRT services off QF and announcing a premium economy class across the fleet of five aircraft.

Waiting, Waiting, Waiting...............................

[High-Flying-Adored]

Sounds like the rumour mill is working over time.........and i am only going to add fuel to the fire.

Dixon is apparently not happy with the AO because it didn't produce the concessions and hence lower cost base that he and his cronies were after (which is why it was concieved in the first place).

JQ on the other was one of the best performers in the QF group during the last financial year and during a press conference Dixon alluded to it's future and potential international expansion. As of Dec 1 JQ will operate A320's to CHC - from there? who knows.

I have heard that the A330-200's will be moved from QF mainline to JQ for flights to HNL, SIN and FCO amongst others. There is some fact to support this in that QF cannot utilise the -200's range as the floors are to thin to support the Sky Bed and therefore cannot be deployed in Int. routes.

I have probably added more questions then answers.

[qcc2]

GD announced dennis adams retirement. he was/is the protoge of andrea staines. expect reshuffle after the baord meeting december 7th. as i mentioned many moons ago here the australian airlines model failed due to the following.
no cheap pilots
expensive seperate management
seperate contractor for airports/marketing/etc
thin routes to fly with seasonal traffic
no business class

the only thing cheap on AO were cabin crew.
i personally doubt they will use the airbus 330-200 as this would require more pilot training (aipa would certainly not let qf easily fly other pilots the a330-s at half their current $ 257.- an hour plus +, plus) and have more then one aircraft type.

interesting times

[QF skywalker]

Yes JQ are cheap on domestic and trans tasman.

But can they be as cheap as AO on medium haul ?

It's all good and well to say that JQ are performing well on domestic.....so does AO actually. Just look at loads and yields CNS-OOL/SYD/DRW. But medium haul is a new ball game for JQ. I would be very interested to see if they can match or better AO's low cost base if providing the same product. The Japanese will not pay for meals. This makes me think that AO will still be around at least to serve the Japan market even if everything else is taken off us.

I heard 2x763's OGU and OGR are headed to AO in the new year. And as I said previously my guess is that these will be for Narita.

[RaverFlaver]

Dixon is apparently not happy with the AO because it didn't produce the concessions and hence lower cost base that he and his cronies were after (which is why it was concieved in the first place).

That's not the same information we have recieved. Quite the opposite. Dixon and the board are happy with the current performance of AO. May I ask your source that states Dixon is not happy? Wouldn't be a reliable source such as galley gossip would it?

Who knows what the future is for any of the airlines in the QF group.

I have heard information such as NRT being a definate, along with further recruitment at the end of this year. Maybe that's why we did a language speaker recruitment drive recently to allow for NRT.

We shall wait for the announcement from the board meetings in December.

Have a great night,

RaverFlaver :)

[OZcabincrew]

Well, at least the AO crew get to look forward to the Holiday Inn Tobu Narita! Would the have AO and QF crew staying at the same hotel?

Also heard off a Airbus Captain that the A332 can fly longer than the A333, however, the distance they can fly is reduced dramatically when the total pax weight is added. There was a rumour of PER-Johannesburg on the A332, but this can't be true as yes the A332 would be able to get there empty, but if it was loaded up with pax, it wouldn't make it. The A333 apparently wouldn't even make it empty. So that i guess puts an end to the theory that JQ will be flying the A332 to destinations further than about 10 hours, on this aircraft anyway.

[mrpaxing]

raverflavor 11 million loss is not what gd wants to have. as spelled out continiously by Gd,JB and the rest each division has to return satisfactory return on capital. 11 million profit wouldn,t be enough return - get it. not gossip just facts
as to the A332 it is a twin engine and therefore requires a different set of rules flying long distances over water. it does fly a lot further then the A330 but as previously mentioned run that past AIPA that JQ will fly A332 internationally. good luck

when Jq will fly internationally the model of a low cost carrier will change dramaticially. and lets face it as i said previously teh only chaep item on AO is cabin crew. the airfares arent cheap either, contrary what GD tells the media. just compare various fares to bali, etc. with other carriers. expensive management, expensive marketing,etc.

[QF skywalker]

Does a loss for ONE financial year give anybody a reason to close down/merge an airline ? Stupid if they did. Everything else at AO is great. It seems our aviation experts in the rear galleys all have their expert reason as to why AO is over "But.....they made a loss of 11 million dollars" Shock ! Horror ! Close the airline down immediately ! They made a loss for one of the three years they have been operating ! Bail out ! They have no excuse for making a loss !

Considering the operating environment AO exists in has not been so great with SARS, TSUNAMI, TERRORIST BOMBINGS etc ..I think AO has done just fine.

As for hotels in Nartia - normally it is always a different hotel to where QF stay. This is not to say though at ports where we both fly that we don't often enjoy a few drinks with the QF crews.

[RaverFlaver]

Most airlines makes a loss here and there. If you judge the future of an airline based soley on one financial years loss of 11 million then there are a lot of airlines that should not be flying or should have gone a long time ago!

RaverFlaver :)

[cartexchange]

QF skywalker,
what you have said makes total sense, however since when have management made any sense! do you think they care about the livelyhood of their employees, all they care about is the BONUS.

[Mr Seatback 2]

Just look at Jetstar Asia for how illogical the actions of GD can be...

It's made greater losses than Australian ever has...so what does he do? Pumps millions upon more millions into it merging it with another failing carrier.

There's investment...and then there's just plain dumb!

[cartexchange]

youre right
look at the LHR base, loss after loss, the QF spin doctors in full mode, sick leave rampant, and then all that cr@p about customer satisfaction, just ask the thais how they get that, they pick out a few people they have pandered to and give them the survey!
Once again common sense has nothing to do with it

[qcc2]

11 million loss one year 1.5 million profit or so the year before again guys listen to what gd and co say. they want to have an industrial return on the capital invested. i do agree with sars etc. it is not easy but if you operate on thinner routes, take seasonal factors into account and cost base it doesn't look too good. like many other airlines who have government protection and ownership AO hasn't got that luxury
mr.seatback is right the money keeps flowing into jetstar asia soon to be renamed orange. lets see what the corporate restructure brings in December

[QF skywalker]

Qcc2 -After much investigation I understand that Jetstar Asia will remain the same - no rebranding. The management of Valuair and Jetstar Asia will be the same people however the two airlines will still operate seperately.

If I recall correctly the company will be called orange star - but you will still see the two different airlines flying.

[mid assist]

here's my two cents worth! The main factors of the 11million loss was firstly fuel (AO just started charging Japan pax a fuel levy) japan market is more than 60% for AO. Segmentation costs, and the things that QF Skywalker has mentioned.

I'm very certain that all will be revealed on December 7th. I believe AO will co exsist with an international version of JQ. Remember JQ will be no frills. They will do Bali, but not from Sydney. I dont think an A320 would make the distance. They will most probably expand through-out the pacific as well. Point to point services.

There will be an a/c order very soon, to replace 767-300 fleet. AO will be part of that order. Once the a/c arrive from 2010 they will no doubt open new markets and new destinations.

Look out for announcements on changes to AO business model in the next month.

[Sonique]

Air Paradise International today announced that due to the devastating effects of the recent
terrorist attacks we have been forced to suspend our services.
The airline’s Chairman and owner, Mr Kadek Wiranatha, said the suspension was due to a
significant downturn in the number of tourists to Bali following the recent terrorist bombings.
He said the bombings had devastated the Balinese tourism industry, including Air Paradise
International.
Mr Wiranatha expressed his sincere regret to the airline’s employees, creditors and the travelling
public for having to suspend the airline’s operations. The suspension applies from today.
Air Paradise was established in February 2003 to service the Australian Balinese tourism market
following the collapse of the Ansett Group in Australia. Air Paradise operated four Airbus
aircraft between Denpasar and select Australian capital cities and carried approximately 20,000
passengers per month.
The airline has retained Australian corporate recovery specialists KordaMentha as consultants to
assist in the suspension of operations in Australia. KordaMentha has significant experience in the
aviation industry through the Ansett administration.
Mr Mark Korda said that Mr Geoff Dixon, Chief Executive Officer of Qantas Airways, has
confirmed arrangements are being made for Qantas to repatriate Air Paradise passengers from
Australia/Bali.
Mr Korda said: “The directors of Air Paradise wish to publicly thank Mr Dixon and Qantas for
their generosity and the speed at which Qantas has responded to the needs of Air Paradise
passengers in such difficult circumstances”.
Air Paradise’s 350 employees were informed of the suspension today.

[RaverFlaver]

DPS-MEL direct is obviously re-commencing. I called reservations to get pricing for a friend coming home from DPS thinking it would be via SYD and was told the flight, at the start of Feb 2006 is a driect flight with AO to MEL.

Interesting. I wonder when we will be officially told.

I should call and ask for a fare from CNS-NRT at the start of the year and see which airline the say it is on!

RaverFlaver :)

[YONLY]

If you check the Staff Travel Website and the normal Qantas site MEL, PER flights are on there from the beginning of February. Full steam ahead it would seem...

On another not I see that management has still not fulfilled one of its obligations under the new agreement. ie. payment of allowances fortnightly... How do we write to the JCC? Where are there e-mail adresses posted?

[qcc2]

skywalker you might find that by december a different plan statrs taking place. firstly the ceo is moving back to oz and then there are other restructures on the way.

[Sonique]

MEL-DPS and PER-DPS were always set to recommence in FEB/MAR 2006 anyhow. It is only a suspension of services at this point in time.

Biscuit Chucker --- Once again your comments reflect your well documented feelings towards AO. Congratulations for trying to make the AO crew feel responsible for 'stealing' some of the QF L/H routes initially. I am sure the AO crew won't have the immaturity to make the same comments to JQ if they take some of our routes. Please remember that management make these decisions - not cabin crew.

Thanks
;) :D :cool: ;) :D

[Sonique]

Australian Airlines today announced it would commence double daily services between Tokyo and Cairns from mid-2006.

Qantas will withdraw from the Tokyo-Cairns route.

As a result of these changes, the Qantas Group will offer more than 500 additional seats each week between Tokyo and Cairns.

Australian Airlines Chief Executive Andrea Staines said the addition of the Tokyo to Cairns services would complement the airline’s existing network of holiday routes.

Ms Staines said that as a full-service international leisure carrier, Australian Airlines was well suited to cater for the needs of travellers between Tokyo and Cairns, the majority of whom were holidaymakers.

“With 14 weekly services between Tokyo and Cairns, Australian Airlines will offer almost double its current number of services between Japan and Australia.

“This represents a major expansion of services from our most important inbound visitor market, with Japanese travellers accounting for more than half of all passengers on our flights. We will take delivery of a sixth Boeing 767-300 in mid-2006 to accommodate this extra flying.

“Australian Airlines also operates non-stop services to Cairns from the Japanese cities of Osaka, Nagoya and Sapporo – and is the only airline to do so.”

Ms Staines said that as part of these schedule changes, and due to a lack of demand, Australian Airlines would suspend its thrice-weekly service between Cairns and Fukuoka from the end of March.


Australian Airlines flights from Tokyo will operate non-stop to Cairns with connections to the rest of Australia on Australian Airlines, Qantas and Jetstar.

It is planned that the existing codeshare arrangement with Japan Airlines on Qantas-operated services between Cairns and Tokyo will continue uninterrupted when Australian Airlines commences operating on the route mid-2006. Qantas also intends to codeshare on these services to facilitate selling on the route.

These new arrangements on the route are subject to government approval.

***********************************************

Australian Airlines today announced it would introduce a Premium Economy cabin from mid-2006.

Australian Airlines currently offers an all-Economy cabin of 271 seats, which will be reconfigured as 28 Premium Economy seats and 238 Economy seats.

Australian Airlines Chief Executive Andrea Staines said the main features of Australian Airlines’ Premium Economy product would include more spacious seating, priority boarding and priority meal service.

Ms Staines said the introduction of Premium Economy would give customers more choice.

“The introduction of Premium Economy is an extension of our full-service, international leisure product offering.

“Customers can choose the benefits of a Premium Economy product, which offers more leg room, seat width and seat recline.”

Premium Economy will go on sale in early 2006 with fare levels to be announced closer to the time.

[left-right-out]

Looks as though Biscuit Chucker will have to eat his words! Where do Long Haul fly to these days???

[wine o babe]

thats terrific news for all at A.O. The crew will be excited that QF have put faith in the product at least for another year. I hope that things turn around financially for AO. The premium economy product may just be what it needed to give it the extra edge. Best of luck to all.

[RaverFlaver]

Dixon is apparently not happy with the AO because it didn't produce the concessions and hence lower cost base that he and his cronies were after (which is why it was concieved in the first place).

How silly of GD and the QF board to give us another destination and another 767 when they are so unhappy with AO and an $11 million loss!

RaverFlaver :)

[argusmoon]

The Japanese are very "brand" conscious.
They are very wary of unknowns.
They do not like being sold a JAL or QF ticket and then find out that they are travelling with someone else.
I believe AO is losing one of its other Japanese destinations due to lack of demand..Fukuoka I think.

[airbus_galley_girl]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They do not like being sold a JAL or QF ticket and then find out that they are travelling with someone else.
__________________________________________________

Maybe so, but I am sure the Japanese would be told they are flying Australian Airlines from their travel agents.

AO in Japan is very famous, especially from word of mouth. The sales/marketing team are doing a great job. Buses painted as the orange aircraft, and posters in the streets.

Too bad Fukuoka will be going, but I've heard the market there has never been strong................

Now that Australian Airlines will soon have business class, it's going to be a great success, especially on the twice-daily NRT route.

Only problem is, here at mainline. What other routes will you be taking???????????????
(':ugh:')



:ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :zzz: :{ :{

[EI-CFC]

Why do Qantas have so many brands? It sounds like a nightmare, service delivery wise!

[airwave]

Each brand has their own identity and target market. The service delivery will not be consistent across all brands because it is the responsibility of each organisation to create and implement their own brand attributes and delivery method. Having said that, every business worth their salt, airlines or otherwise, will strive to achieve greatness for their patrons and keep raising the bar in customer service. The QF management board who oversee the whole business across all Qantas group brands can pull the strings on selected routes, assigning one to drop out and another to pick up as the route and competitive landscape demands. :8

[Le 3rd Homme]

I have just spent a month travelling around Japan with my Japanese wife.
Spent most of the time around Osaka Kyoto and Tokyo.My mother in law has never heard of Australian.
She travels twice a year to Australia to visit her grandchildren.
She travels JAL from Osaka.
Not once did we see anything evidence of AO Marketing.No billboards,no newspaper ads,no television promotion,no travel magazine promotions.In fact no media advertsing at all.
Let me tell you we were looking for it.
I am 186cms and travelled to Osaka from Cairns last year(using AO).Never again.The seat pitch was perfect for my wife.She is 165cms.
Contrary to previous posts AO is not "famous"
Famous is Louis Vitton,Veuve ,Qantas and Mercedes.All established, well known brands.
AO doesn't even come close.
Travel agents DO NOT tell passengers that they are travelling AO when they purchase a QF ticket.
There is a growing backlash.
How do I know?My wife's brother is a travel agent.(In Japan)

[speedbirdhouse]

Awwwww..............

Now you have gone and spoilt the spin with fact.........:}

[Sailorgal]

To take this topic back to recruitment, the mass emails are out to those who applied online........no good news for me - anyone out there privileged enough to score an interview??

Was hoping that with the announcement of these new sectors there might be a decent recruitment drive? Too optimistic ?? or are the jobs only going to those lucky enough to already be in QF somewhere?

[YONLY]

Since when does having a Japanese wife and travelling around Japan qualify you to be an expert on the travel industry?

Apart from JAL and ANA how many other airlines are Japanese even aware of? I am sure that they are not aware of half of them, if any.

I think you will find that the majority of Japanese tourists come on some kind of a package and that price and content of the tour are the most sensitive factors when coming to a decision. On most packaged tours the customer does not decide on the airline or hotel, and are often not aware of what airline/hotel they will be using until shortly before, if not until the commencement of their holiday. Most travel agents charge an extra fee if you wish to choose the airline/hotel.

Whilst AO is not known to the general Japanese public, it is obviously known to travel agents in the major cities of Osaka and Nagoya as the load factors out of those two cities are quite good. Planes don't fill themselves. However I would agree that AO is not a famous brand.

Whilst AO is basically a dressed up no-frills carrier it serves the markets it services well. For a foreign airline the emphasis placed on Japanese culture and language is quite astounding. Have you ever flown on BA, Qantas or other western airlines to Japan? There is no emphasis on the individual needs of the Japanese passenger except for the token Japanese flight attendant and a variation of the menu.

The leg room issue - Take a number. There are thousands of other tall people out there with the same issues as you. AO 767's are essentially Qantas 767's and are comparable across the industry.

[ditzyboy]

Le 3rd Homme -
The seat pitch on AO is the same as QF in Y.

[Forward Assist1]

Le 3rd Homme,
I totally disagree with what you have said about AO. I have also traveled around Japan for many years, I have many friends in Japan also and they have all said they have heard about Australian Airlines via media advertisement in Japan. In the last 2 years I have seen many posters in trains, in stations, and on buses. I have seen tv ads promoting AO & Australia and I have also heard radio ads promoting Australian Airlines. Before traveling with AO to Japan I have traveled JAL and QF and I would have to say AO wins hands down for service and comfort. This thing with seat recline is rubbish, AO seats are identical
to QF, and JAL seats are as hard as rocks, I was sitting on a pillow towards the end of the flight.

[wine o babe]

Got an e-mail yesterday advising that I have progressed to an interview. Christmas has come early,I'm giving this everything I have.I have flown with the majority of airlines in Aust/Pacific region and the seats on AO seem as roomy and comfortable as most. I'm 6'2 and can't fly any longer than an hour with Virginblue without getting bruised knees.

[GalleyHag]

wine o babe

An interview for cabin crew with AO?

If you are 6'2 thats around 188cm, isnt that over the height requirement?

[wine o babe]

that's with my heels on. I'm actually 179 cm and still get bruised knees on VB. Seen as though we are being exact.

[ditzyboy]

wine-o-babe
Virgin has 32" pitch on all -800s and infront of the owing exits on the -700s. That's more than QF and half the international airlines flying into Australia.

[mid assist]

YONLY, couldn't have put it better myself!:ok:

[alangirvan]

If you go to Qantas or Jetstar or Australian Airlines for your travel, is that the same as going to Myer, or K Mart or Target to buy the same white shirt?



Alan Girvan

[speedbirdhouse]

Its not about the shirt or it's quality. Rather it's all about the profit made on the shirt.

The "QANTAS GROUP" have no other concerns.

[charlie_vb]

Hi everyone,

Just got an interview with AO.

Any crew got advise on what the interview process is like and what the questions are like

[RaverFlaver]

In Fukuoka I caught 1 train and the carriage I stepped into had AO stickers and posters on it. Right avove the door as you exit, kind of hard not to miss!

You probably woudn't see much in Tokyo as we don't fly there, though that is changing now.

I am 186cms and travelled to Osaka from Cairns last year(using AO).Never again.The seat pitch was perfect for my wife.She is 165cms.

I'd be curious to know who you fly with within Australia and internationally as I thought our pitch was the same as QF and most other carriers. I'm sure you're not going to find great comfort on a seat that is even 1 or 2 inches more than us any way.

As per this link it states QF Y calss is the same as us.....it lists the seat pitch in Y class for 111 airlines.

http://www.uk-air.net/seatpitch.htm

RaverFlaver :)

[airbus_galley_girl]

Australian Airlines
Seating Policy
'Demonizes' Men

By Patrick Goodenough
CNSNews.com International Editor
12-1-5

Two airlines "down under" are under fire after acknowledging their policy of not allowing an unaccompanied child passenger to sit next to a man.

The policy emerged when a New Zealand man said he was asked by airline staff to move because an unaccompanied minor had been assigned the seat next to him.

Mark Worsley was told to swap seats with a woman sitting nearby, who then moved into the seat next to the boy, about eight years old, for the 80-minute flight.

"I was pretty shocked -- I think most people would be," the 37-year-old shipping manager and father of two said Tuesday.

"I complied straight away and moved seats. But as I sat on the plane during the flight I got more and more angry about it."

Part of the problem, Worsley said, was that the plane was full. When the flight attendant arranged the seat swap, "certainly there was enough disruption that people in the immediate vicinity would have heard what was going on. I felt totally embarrassed."

He had later confronted the airline staff, who confirmed the company policy.

Worsley said someone asked him after the event why he had not simply refused to move. "But these days you can't really do that. With [fears of] terrorism, if you cause any fuss on the plane you're out walking."

"Most males in the world, I'm sure, are perfectly law-abiding, good parents, good fathers, brothers, whatever," he said. "They're basically accusing half the population of the world of being a potential pedophile."

:sad:

[Le 3rd Homme]

1.I don't characterize myself as an expert but I am an informed observer.My brother in law(Japanese travel agent) is
2.I wish AO every success.Some individuals who post here however seem to have been dazzled by spin.
3.The reality is AO is struggling for Brand Recognition and financially.
4.Airlines are transport ..pure and simple.The rest is gloss.This applies particularly to LCCs of which AO is one.
5.AO management needs to find some direction instead of the ad hoc approach it is currently using.
6.High end travellers(where the yield is) will always be reluctant to use an LCC.
7.AOs cultural awareness is no greater than QF mainline.On any QF mainline flight there are at 5 Japanese speakers.A number of whom are native speakers
Good luck guys,I hope your management eventually gets it right
BTW.."stickers" on Japanese trains ...I don't think so.
Fukuoka is where AO is pulling out.Obviously the "stickers" didn't work

[Ascent]

Le 3rd Homme,

dont you remember the 333 that had a bit of trouble not long ago? only speaker was a crew member on staff travel.

[speedbirdhouse]

Operated by Perth domestic crew.

The only language speaker on board was an off duty longhauler who ended up making the PA's even though they were on holidays.

SYD Longhaul now operating the PER-NRT sectors for the moment as multiple classes of MAM casual language speakers being trained NOW.

Longhaul language speakers will soon be back to using their language skills on SYD-CNS and SYD-PER-SYD sectors.

QANTAS when it chooses to offer a proper international product provides very well for it's foriegn guests.
The problem is that "proper international product" conflicts with senior executive performance bonuses

[airbus_galley_girl]

Hi,

I found some great sites like pprune.com, cabincrew.com and flyertalk.com.

Does anybody know any other good sites that have airline forums?

[YONLY]

Maybe those Jap speakers were positioning to Perth to then go on to Japan from there? Had that thought ever crossed your mind?

Getting back to AO Le 3rd Homme you raise some very interesting and valid points. However you forget that AO is a strategic subsidary of the Qantas group. Brand recognition will slowly occur, but as long as the Japanese wholesalers sell seats on AO as part of packages AO will continue to do well in the Japanese market.

If you are referring to the $11 million loss posted last year if you researched you would find that this would be attributed mainly to Denpasar flying. If AO were a stand alone company why would it take on such loss making routes? The Qantas Group has to service the Bali holiday market and the unit with the lowest cost base will do it. If the group is going to service low yield, loss making routes it should try to make the smallest loss possible. I wouldn't be surprised if this flying eventually goes to Jetstar which is even cheaper than AO.

Why would AO want to attract 'high end' users? Our target market are Japanese tourists that will only fly us once, or a couple of times at most, and the outbound Australian tourist. I totally agree with you; high end travellers will be reluctant to us LCC's and AO.

There are alot of things that AO need to do. The ad hoc approach to everything it does is one!

Like Raver Flaver I have been to Fukuoka and other ports AO service plenty of times and the only marketing I ever have seen has been a poster in a travel agent and AO info in package tour brochures. But I feel you need to receive recognition and awareness from the people that sell the seats in order to get bums on seats!

When I lived in Japan I preferred to come home with CX as they were cheaper, had better IFE, newer aircraft and I perceived their customer service to be superior etc., but I was not a Japanese customer that has only 4 days break and only cares about getting to OZ quickly for a few days of relaxation, sightseeing and shopping. I had very different needs and requirements...

[QF skywalker]

Good News - The new uniform launch date is christmas day ! Can't wait for the new look.

[missleadfoot]

A topic that keeps coming up is the fact that AO lost $11million in the last year but no one seems to be addressing why. It is no big deal that AO lost that amount. AO was set up to fly to routes that QF cant be profitable on. If QF had maintained the routes that AO fly they would have lost $18million so therefore although at a loss we actually saved QF $7million. That is the purpose of AO. Qantas wants to maintain some unprofitable routes and they know they will lose more money if they continue to fly in their own right. AO was born to lower the loss to QF not to make huge profits.

[charlie_vb]

Hey did anyone hear anything on the big announcement that AO were going to bring out this week?

[RaverFlaver]

We recently had a big announcement - NRT double daily and premium economy on all a/c by mid 2006. Or are you referring to something else.....that we don't know about?

Cheers,

RaverFlaver :)

[charlie_vb]

Maybe that was all, I heard a few people saying that something big was going to come out. So thought that it might have been more

[OZcabincrew]

hey, can i ask! how come AO and QF crew don't stay at the same hotels? We were in HKG the other day and we walked past the AO crew who were all looking at us from their bus (after arrival) and were a bit shocked when a couple of us genuinely waved to them as we walked past? but i don't understand why we don't stay at the same hotel, surely there's not that many AO crew that they need their own hotel?

Oz

[YONLY]

The answer as to why we stay in different hotels is COST! Plus the requirements for our hotels are of a lower standard than QF. There doesn't have to be a gym etc. Not to say that our hotels aren't nice though....

And I will tell you why they had shocked looks on their faces when some of you 'genuinely waved to them' is because it is a rarity. I think we are viewed as an evil threat by some of your colleagues and often cop a bit from QF crew. BUt hey, if my lifestyle was under threat I guess I would be bitter too....

[RaverFlaver]

We were in HKG the other day and we walked past the AO crew who were all looking at us from their bus (after arrival) and were a bit shocked when a couple of us genuinely waved to them as we walked past?

It does kind of take you by surprise when QF crew wave to you, or even reply to your hello. It's not a common occurance - but thank you for waving to AO crew. I wish there was more of it.

Have a great weekend.

RaverFlaver :)

[mid assist]

Hey RaverFlaver,
I'm sure there will be some interest when we will be walking around HKG and SIN with our new uniforms!

[surfside6]

Are you kidding?
There are more aircrew and their uniforms is SIN and HKG than there are fleas on a dogs back.
Interest? From whom?
Give me a break?

[OZcabincrew]

surfside6,

you mustn't be aware of what's going on when you walk through the terminals in SIN and HKG. Non-crew are always looking at you when you walk past to either try and work out who you fly for and just generally interested.

Oz

[cartexchange]

OZcc
Do you really think anyone in the airport gives a toss what you wear!
NO ONE CARES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[OZcabincrew]

they're probably not interested as to what you wear in regards to brand names etc, but people do take note as to how you look and how your uniforms look compared to others etc etc, otherwise there wouldn't be a whole section about grooming and how to wear your uniform in your manual and passengers wouldn't comment (which they always do) on how nice certain parts of the uniform are and parts they don't like. I don't know about you, but i've had this quite a lot and so have a lot of fellow crew i've worked with too. If no one cared about the uniforms etc, SQ wouldn't wear the uniform they have, Emirates wouldn't go to the trouble of the hats and veil, QF wouldn't have spent the money and got Morissey to design the whole uniform range and it would be a lot easier cos i could then go to work in my t-shirt, boardies and sneakers, much more comfortable. Just the other week we had arrived in SIN and were walking to our transport and a person in the arrivals hall stopped one of my female colleagues so she could have a photo with her because she liked the QF print dress................................

Oz

[surfside6]

I get the distinct impression you are nought but a narcissist.
People do not spend their time looking at you.
Unless of course you have your fly open.
They are more intent on getting to their destination than ogling you and your funny uniform.

[QF skywalker]

Dear surfside,


I get the distinct impression you are nought but a narcissist.

They are more intent on getting to their destination than ogling you and your funny uniform


"OZcabincrew" is a QF flight attendant.

[speedbirdhouse]

Quote-

""OZcabincrew" is a QF flight attendant."

Yes, embarrassingly so......

[surfside6]

I know Ozcabincrew is QF Crew.
I wear the same uniform.
What I said still stands

[mostie]

QF skywalker,

narcissism is a state of mind not an occupation or profession.
It is evident in just about all of our [young?] collegues posts.

Conversations I have had with our CEO suggest that he is affected with the same affliction.

"Google it".
You may learn something......

[QF skywalker]

Mostie - I think you could learn a lot off your younger colleagues. Even they who you think are below you because of decades of service to QF on your behalf are not as stupid as you think.

How about you go google the word 'Fresh Attitude ' & 'Service with a smile'

Merry Christmas from all of the younger ones. :ok:

[DEFCON4]

Narcissism does not necessarily mean someone is stupid.
Just as "fresh atittude" and "service with a smile"are not exclusive to those under 30.

[Sonique]

Interested to know how QF crew think they can exclusively pop into any thread they like and attack other crew. The initial response was to one of your own QF crew members regarding uniforms. So how about you take your narcissism back to the psycho QF thread.

[DEFCON4]

"Sonique"
Hope you have a great Christmas and a Happy New Year wherever you happen to be.
We are all just one big happy family really="The Qantas Group"

[mostie]

Qf Skywalker,

Quote-
"You may learn something......"

-----

Or maybe you won't.....

-----

Sonique,

Merry Christmas.

[lowerlobe]

Missleadfoot

Your argument that AO loses less money than QF would and is therefore a financial success holds as much water as a colander.

GD thinks of only two things,the first is how to make more profit for the group and the second is how to maximize his bonus.

If the cost base of J* international is less than AO and from all indications it will be then AO has a lot to worry about.

It does not matter how much profit AO makes because if J* international can make more with a lower cost base then AO will go the way of the dinosaurs .There is no sentimentality for the AO brand as there is with QF.

[Cabin Scrag]

I agree with lowerlobe cost is everything to QF and Jetstar International will be 40% cheaper than Qantas to operate. AO is only 30 % cheaper than QF to operate. At least a 10% drop is better than 40 !

[lowerlobe]

Cabin Scrag,

I think you will find that AO is lucky if it is 20% cheaper than QF and it still is losing money and that is the simple reason why J* was invented. If GD can get J* International operating for 40% less than QF then AO will have a hard time to prove to GD that it deserves to exist.

If AO had been a success then J* would never have seen the light of day, it was an idea of QF but did not quite work out as intended but it gave him the direction to go.Ao was intended as a divide and conquer ploy to get people working for less and giving punters less but paying much the same as QF.

GD will have no problem finding cabin crew for J* international as there will always be people wanting to fly overseas and will take almost any pay they are offered as will the tech crew if they think this is their only chance to get a job based in OZ.

If GD decides to have overseas bases and he will because he has seen the savings with QF’s bases then there will be unquestionably no problem finding crew.

Unless AO takes some more work practice concessions and effective pay cuts then AO is in deep s***.

QF has a similar problem but there is sentimentality with the brand that does not extend to AO.

[funkytownflighty]

Just wondering if anyone out there has had an interview with AO around 9/10 December in CNS and how it went?
Any advice on the format that was used for the 6 hour sessions?
I will be attending a session on 31 January..fingers crossed it all goes well!!!
Also any word on the streets as to how many crew they are looking for?
Happy Festivus to all....

[Cabin Scrag]

Lowerlobe,
Management tell us we are infact 30% cheaper to operate than QF and GD is quoted as wanting JQ int to be 40% cheaper.
The difference between AO and JQ is that AO will offer full service economy and premium economy which suits the Japan market where as JQ int will offer similar to domestic buy your own food and pay for inflight entertainment which does not suit the Japan market. However things are very changeable and the airline industry is no longer how it was years ago and I think we are all in for lots more change ! Maybe AO will be absorbed into JQ oneday, maybe not, time will tell. My theory is that lower cost divisions will be forced to compete with each other to get flying and exist then eventually when costs are where the QF group want them it will all be re branded QF again with the lower costs in place. Thats where I agree with your QF brand loyalty theory but without the costs. Time will tell.

[lowerlobe]

Cabin Scrag,

Management ,especially airline management at that tend to tell you a lot of rubbish to be honest.I don't think they could lie straight in bed.

If AO was 30% cheaper than QF ,then AO would have to be running around near empty to lose that amount of money.

I personally don't want AO to be turned into anything else but the way QF thinks,GD would sell his own mother or family to get his bonus

[airbus_galley_girl]

Just saw Australian Airlines crew today in Sydney. The new uniforms look great. It's a big improvement.