eclipse 500 info

[lovis9]

Hi!

do you know were I could get some info about the eclipse 500 and if there is a company that sells it in Europe?

Thanks for all the info you can give me!

Ceers,

[trainer too 2]

In order to retain a low margin on the Eclipse 500 and keep the cost as low as possible to Eclipse owners, all sales are currently made on a direct basis. We do not have plans to add dealers or distributors at this time.

from http://www.eclipseaviation.com/

[Check 6]

FAA certification is expected in June 2006, so they are not being sold yet - test flights only towards certication.

Impressive airplane!


Check 6

[lovis9]

Thanks,

I called them in US, 3 years from now is the time expected for the delivery,
It is impossible to find out a VLJ with the same charact. but also the same prize, D.Jet is comeing , but still has to be certificated.........
The business man I am in touch won t wait 3 years.....
Any suggestion on wich aircraft I can show him? He like the Eclispe , he likes the price too............

Thanks.,

[Littlebopeep]

Lovis.

We all expected a lot from the Eclipse when it was muted a few years ago, seemed too good to be true.

Sadly it’s starting to look like that.

Rumour is, it’s above weight, below performance, below target speed, half the range.

It is unlikely that ATC will let it operate at its economical levels FL330+ because it will be a lot slower than the ‘regular’ jet traffic. Therefore on a day to day basis expect much lower levels, lower speeds and higher fuel burn

Also consider the financial stability of the whole project, the price is based on some pretty unbelievable targets.

Altogether it will be 20 kts approx faster than say a TBM, carry less, and have half the range, twice the operating costs.

Depends on your mission profile really! Also consider a PC12, better load than the TBM but a lot slower.

Hope this helps.

[Onthehill]

Lovis

The eclipse will be the corporate/private pilot’s nightmare.With restricted load, fuel and legs you will always be flying on the edge of the envelope. Good side is your mental maths will soon be up to speed.

Stick with something like a TBM700, piloting is pretty straightforward, good range, great speed and most impressively maintenance is very cheap.

Also look at a SKA 200, bit pricey, good loads, good legs, bit slow and unfortunately a little heavy on the maintenance and reliability side, but worth considering

[lovis9]

thanks guys,

I was thinking to the TBN and the Malibu too,
the reason this business man is more prone to wait for the eclipse is : multy engine jet ( and I know how reliable a single turbine is, I flew a caravan and the perforamnce was impressive)
and he is looking at the cost of the plane, that is around 2.5 million in the case of the TBN 700 and 1.3 for the eclipse,

He does not need to carry loads, the legs that we will fly are from 200 miles up to 1000 miles, from Italy to England.....
We were thinking about a king air 200, and again the operationg costs are pretty close to this new generation jet, even if the performance will be a little less than the one publuished,

I was looking to other jets, citation muistang cost double, the diamon jet will be ready in 3 years..............or you go into a citation but everything is double, from the cost of operation to the cost to buy........

I may not know other jets...........if you have any suggestions ,there will be well appreciated!

Thanks,

Lovi.

[Onthehill]

Lovis.

“He does not need to carry loads, the legs that we will fly are from 200 miles up to 1000 miles, from Italy to England.....”.

And therein lies the problem, the eclipse will probably be good for up to 500nm, say London to Milan, but 1000nm???

The Malibu is the turbine version of the Eclipse, no speed, no legs, no load and a nightmare to operate. Still you’ll pick one up cheap. You will want to like it………. because you’ll be stuck with it.

Good luck with your hunting; it’s a nice position to be in.

[lovis9]

Thanks man, I will keep searching,
if not 1300 mn ok, but do you really think the eclipse won t have a range of 1000nm ???
The mother eclipse mightbe optimistic, but I do not think they so bad..............were did you hear those info?

Thanks.

[Check 6]

Where are you getting this negative information regarding the Eclipse 500? I have seen nothing but positive info in the last year in many trade magazines.

The project was delayed a year because of the Williams engines, but this is now solved.

The avionics suite is also impressive.

:confused:

Check 6

[Littlebopeep]

Check 6.

“Where are you getting this negative information regarding the Eclipse 500? I have seen nothing but positive info in the last year in many trade magazines.”


I agree the trade magazines do (in the main) seem to be rather positive and I do not wish to appear to be negative. An article I read quite recently in a US Trade magazine is quite critical about the crisis of subcontractors and parts supply.

Like I said “rumour is” (in my opening reply to the posed question), but specifically talking to a few knowledgeable people at Oshkosh it seemed to be the general consensus.

Also talking to a few medium size jet manufacturers (potential competitors) the ‘nervousness’ that they were displaying two years ago about the advent of the Eclipse have all but disappeared

And before you point it out “rumour”, is of course just that. It is however apparent that the promissory noises of a few years ago are all drifting – in the wrong direction. Take the price alone, the big spin 2002-2004 was the price, $900,000 the first jet below 1m etc etc etc, dont hear much of that now with the price climbing to $1.5 in avery short space of time. expect that to increase substantially.

The avionics suite is indeed impressive, but not a lot more than others already out there now. It will not look so impressive in at minimum three years time.

There are two potential biggies looming for single pilot VLJs. One will be insurance and the other will be regulation. If you think for one minute that BA,AA, Lufthansa, Continental and the rest - will want a tired businessman at the controls at FL whatever upsetting the paying public with the notion! As we know to our cost in GA the big boys call the shots with government.

Apologies in advance if a little too negative, just trying to introduce a little realism, although I dop like to dream a little myself.
:ok:

[Check 6]

Lbp, thanks for the follow-up. Historically, prices increase on new aircraft models early on, so this is not unusual.

I understand and appreciate your "rumour" caveat. I am going with the optimistic point of view for now as I have an interest in seeing the Eclipse 500 being a success.

Time will tell for sure.

Check 6

:ok:

[Littlebopeep]

Check 6.

Thanks for that and the best of luck.:O

[Check 6]

Eclipse Aviation said this week it is launching a national tour -- its first -- to showcase the company's Eclipse 500 very light jet (VLJ). For the tour, Eclipse will take one of its prototypes, N506EA, to a series of seven cities during November. At those stops, the "FAA-conforming VLJ" will be on static display and Eclipse will host a reception at selected sites. In addition to the just-announced November tour, Eclipse said it plans to visit additional cities later this year and in 2006; the specifics will be announced later.

Meanwhile, Eclipse also said it has chosen the Albany (N.Y.) International Airport (ALB) as the site for its new northeast factory service center. The to-be-built state-of-the-art maintenance and service center is one of seven planned by the company; previously announced locations include Albuquerque, N.M., and Gainesville, Fla.

Construction of the Eclipse Aviation hangar at ALB is expected to begin in the spring of 2006, with completion later in the year. The facility will be built just south of the existing Million Air Terminal. A $1.5 million state grant will be used to assist the airport in building the new hangar and providing the additional infrastructure and runway access that will be required.

To no one's surprise, the company says its planned Eclipse 500 road trips are designed to allow potential customers to get "up close and personal" with the airplane. Presently, Eclipse says it remains on track for FAA certification during the first quarter of 2006, with first customer deliveries scheduled to begin shortly thereafter.

Additionally, Eclipse's scheduled November tour stops will be taking advantage of the two major aviation trade shows to be held in Florida that month: AOPA Expo, in Tampa, Nov. 3 through 5, and the NBAA Annual Meeting and Convention, in Orlando, Nov. 9 through 11.

The other locations, which will include a static display and reception from 4:30 p.m. to 8:00 p.m., are: Mercury Air Center, Dekalb Peachtree Airport (PDK), Nov. 12; Wilson Air, Memphis International Airport (MEM), Nov. 14; Million Air, Addison Airport (ADS), Nov. 16; Trajen FBO Network, Austin-Bergstrom International Airport (AUS), Nov. 18; and Piedmont Hawthorne, San Antonio International Airport (SAT), Nov. 20.

The events in Atlanta, Memphis, Dallas, Austin, and San Antonio require an RSVP to Eclipse, so interested parties should register via the company's Web site. Additional tour dates will be announced in the future through that site.

[Looklively]

Check6, I quote you.

For the tour, Eclipse will take one of its prototypes, N506EA, to a series of seven cities during November. At those stops, the "FAA-conforming VLJ" will be on static display.

Good thats a mock-up then! I can only presume that its not the one that (hurumpf) landed two weeks ago without gear selected in the down position.

Not many people know about that (m caine).

All the same it will be good to see it in the flesh,so to speak

[Check 6]

LL, for the record, I have no association with the company, as I copied this from an aviation news article.

I believe when they say "static display" it will be flown in, but no demo flights will be conducted, but I could be wrong.

The "gear up" incident is no secret. I saw the news story in multiple aviation trade magazines. This was not a failure of the airplane, but a failure of the test pilot to put the gear down. The gear was in the trailing position (partly extended), so there was minimal damage other than to red faces.

Cheers,

Check 6

[Looklively]

Check6.

Dont take offence, sorry if you took me wrong, I didnt mean to suggest you had any links with the company.

I also take your point that it is not a mockup.

With respect to the 'gear up' , certainly the test pilot appears to have accepted the rap for the event, although the incident is a little whiffy.

[Check 6]

LL, no offense at all taken. I just wanted to make it clear to all that I am trying to be objective and that my only interest is in their success.

I actually find their concept refreshing. They started with a "fresh sheet of paper" so this is new grounds for light jets.

One does wonder if the Test Pilot is "falling on his sword" for the team, of if he really screwed the pooch and did not put the gear down. I guess we will have to wait 5-10 years for the book.

:E :E

Cheers, Check 6

[Dimbleby]

Ole Dimbleby has been around for a while, and seen a few things in this fine sector of aviation in which we dwell, whether that be in the mercenary role or enthusiast or both.

The words "starting with a fresh sheet" make me just a little nervous. No let me re-phrase that, they give me the heebyjeebies.

It wont be the first time a test pilot will have taken the long walk in order that the project continues.

Words of caution to those who might be thinking of sinking a few bob into this lark. Let our gullable american cousins do it first, then wait about five years. If the insurance hasnt gone through the roof and the ATC restrictions are not too bad and most importantly of all, if you can resell the bugger for anything near what you paid for it, then go fer it

[Grunf]

Hmm, too bad the guys who used to lead aviation are waiting for someone else to "bite the bullit" (i'm not an american, by the way).

Eclipse is a sound project and more or less on track. Loosing a promised engine is a big mishap for everyone and not a startup like them.

If (and I say if) they succeed this will be a very good sign others will follow.

they do break the envelope so far with some new technologies which they certified first (like for example stir welding).

I do not see any airline being capable of bashing someone especially if you are aware that big money is behind them. I do not see UA, LH, BA, AA capable of influencing FAA on ANY issue. Boeing yes but they have no interest in doing that.

As we can see FAA is getting ready for far more little and fast birds in the sky with setting new rules just to accomodate VLJs (and UAVs in the future).

Let's all wait and hope something will come out of Eclipse because without these type of trials no progress can be made.

So far they are the sanes project from all these aspiring VLJs.

Pricewise as someone mentioned they are already nearing their plateau. They will still be cheaper then Mustang and if you check comments comming from Cessna they do not think there is any overlapping on thier targeted market segments. We'll see in about two years if I was right.

[Check 6]

The tail section of the Eclipse 500 will be built in Grand Prairie, Texas, from parts made in England. Grand Prairie-based Hampson Aerospace, a subsidiary of U.K.-based Hampson Industries PLC, has won the exclusive contract to build the tail sections, which will be shipped to Eclipse's final assembly facility in Albuquerque.

Hampson manager Scott Wargo said the tail might be just the beginning for the Grand Prairie plant, which will hire 135 people for the Eclipse contract. "We are in other business negotiations as well," he said, adding that "there's going to be a lot of other work."

Meanwhile, Eclipse says it remains on track for certification of the 500 in the first quarter of 2006. More than 500 hours have been flown on five test aircraft and they've reached speeds of 285 knots and a maximum altitude of 41,000 feet.

More earthly exercises, such as foreign-object ingestion and water-ingestion tests, have also been completed. According to Eclipse, they're just about ready to turn the planes over to FAA certification pilots.

Yes Dimbleby, it appears that our "cousins" in the UK will have their hands in the pie.


:E

[Onthehill]

Eclipse says it remains on track for certification of the 500 in the first quarter of 2006. More than 500 hours have been flown on five test aircraft and they've reached speeds of 285 knots .



Let me get this straight cause something is troubleing me here. 500hrs and were up to (ill say that again) up to ...285ktas.

So how many more hours projected until they reach their advertised forecast speeds, and are in the position to hand it over to the feds, or are they ready to turn it over straight away at 285ktas.

just asking!

[Check 6]

285 knots Indicated Airspeed

[HonestoGod]

I know my math is not great and I am open to correction.

285 IAS at FL410, standard ICAO day would equal,,,,,,,,,,,,,,let me see,,,,,,,,,,,,540TAS. or .942 MACH if you prefer it that way.

Wow.

I am impressed. why thats 220 KTS TRUE more than the Eclipse publicity department are claiming.

[Check 6]

HTG, 285 knots AND FL410. This is not the same as 285 knots AT FL410.

In other words, test aircraft have reached 285 knots. Test aircraft have also reached FL410.

Given the opportunity I would love to fly one.



:ok:

[HonestoGod]

Chekkie

Say, I have amended my last as it was a little offside.

Do me a favour as I am downline and dont have my Jeppwheel with me. What is 285IAS/CAS at 5,000 density and 10,000.

Straightup, just interested thats all.

[Check 6]

5000 = 313

10000 = 342

Altitudes are pressure altitude, not DA.

[Onthehill]

Check.

From today’s Flight International.

Eclipse starts drag-reduction tests
Eclipse Aviation has confirmed it is flight testing drag-reduction modifications to bring the speed and range of the Eclipse 500 very light jet (VLJ) up to specifications. The improvements are focused on a revised wing-to-body fairing, which the company says will be “much smaller” than the existing design. “We are looking at several different shapes,” Eclipse says, adding that the final configuration will be chosen following a series of flight tests.
The shapes are thought to be flying on the third production-conforming aircraft, N504EA, which originally joined the flight-test programme at the company’s Albuquerque, New Mexico base on 21 April.
The drag-reduction studies also include a revised join line between the de-icing boot on the wing leading edge and the upper wing surface. “We are looking to get smoother laminar flow there,” says Eclipse.
The company downplays the modification trials as “typical for a flight-test programme. You do these things in the windtunnel, then you go out into flight test and find ways to make the design even better.” Eclipse concedes, however, that the drag reductions are required to bring “both speed and range up to specification”.
The Eclipse 500 is offered with a guaranteed maximum cruise speed of 375kt (700km/h) and a range with four occupants and NBAA instrument flight rules reserves of 2,370km (1,280nm).
Until now the highest quoted speed achieved in flight testing is 285kt, while no firm figures for range performance have yet been issued. Performance tests were originally due to have been completed by the start of August, but are not now likely to be finished until the final configuration is flight tested and decided upon.
GUY NORRIS/LOS ANGELES



In subtle FI terms, this certainly poses some questions about specification targets.

Specifically with respect to speed the article does not clarify whether it is CAS or TAS.

All in all I would say some road to go yet before it’s handed over for certification.

[Sheilanagig]

There are two serious issues with respect to the Eclipse and the like, regarding the combination of owner/pilots, single pilot operations, and twin engine jets.

I have met and flown with many over the past few years who claim to be interested in buying a VLJ with a view to utilising for a combination of business and pleasure. Many are, and I do not say this lightly, barely competent flyers. That is to say safe, but pressed right to their skill limits in their SEP/TEP/SET aircraft. They appear to be totally unaware of their own limited skill levels and the required step up in skill, workload and frequency of flying that is required to operate a Jet aircraft. In some ways it is in the nature of these people who have done well in business and used to achieving their targets in other areas, and have the wherewithal to contemplate purchase of a VLJ. Even for the pro (and it will be a single pilot op due the load restrictions 90% of the time) the workload is very very high. I think the rule of thumb is twin crew X 4, for a jet.

My second point (and it has been raised before) is what regulatory restrictions will the authorities bring to bear on owner pilots operating single pilot in their VLJs. Possibly none I grant - but look at it from the airlines point of view. The paying public is ultra sensitive to any perceived threat to their safety or security when airborne. We all have seen the headlines. Now throw tired and barely competent owner-pilots into every sector of the same airspace as the commercial traffic and we have a recipe for disaster. The airlines would have a very valid point wishing to restrict certain operations. The problem is of course that for the Eclipse and others, performance and range are based on getting to FL330 minimum. Those that say the CAA would not bend to the requests of the airlines are obviously not aware that many of the extra (unreasonable) demands placed on GA in the last two years were invoked specifically at the request (as I understand it) of BA.

Hopefully sense will prevail; the accident rate will not be too high that many will recognise that they should stay in a zone suitable to their talents.

For those that have already invested, offload now, before the market becomes saturated.

Ad praesens ova cras pullis sunt meliora