Class C?

[SirToppamHat]

The other day I had brief sight of a paper that many of you will probably have seen regarding the changes in Class of Airspace above FL245 and the eventual lowering of the 'FL245 boundary' to FL195.

As indicated here, my understanding is that what is currently Class B Airspace will change to Class C (next year?). Then, in a few years' time, we will see the FL245 drop to FL195.

All this is to harmonise airspace across Europe.

My purpose in writing is to ask what you, as a body of professionals, see as the main challenges facing airspace users following these changes. On the other hand is it all good?

I am interested in Mil and Civil views, purely out of interest.

If no interest, I will delete the thread; I will also be quite happy to be corrected if I have misinterpreted what I have read.

STH

[5milesbaby]

STH, I have heard of similar rumblings and I assume you are meaning the changes are to be implimented within the UK FIR.

I can see the initial challenge to be with the ATCO's themselves as we have no experience of Class C airspace so will we have training to remind us on how to integrate the VFR traffic into our IFR body? I have had extremely limited training using VFR traffic and know that there are many more with even more time than myself since their last VFR transmission (and probably none actually live, only simulated). I can also see the simple solution that VFR traffic will be just refused during the ever increasing 'busy' periods during the day. I know that its easy for us to just go and look up who and how to work/integrate/separate but having a go, even if simulated, will boost the confidence in dealing with the new airspace.

The obvious question is that when the limit of the UIR lowers to FL195 does that mean the entire UK blanket like now, or will there be areas off the routes system whereby the limit remains at FL245? I say this because off route status will change level wise, so we'll know more a/c outside the system are actually under a radar service if now flying above FL195 as opposed to the current FL245. Some of this will make controlling slightly easier due to being able to route direct earlier or vector off route during the quiet hours.

I think you should keep this thread here, as I would also like to understand more about this proposed change and how it impacts on our current operations.

[BDiONU]

Harmonisation throughout Europe, all to do with Single Skies and Flexible Use of Airspace.
Too much info for a single post but do a Google search on DFL FL195 and you'll find lots of papers on it.

Enjoy ;)
BD

[London Mil]

For what its worth, here's my take on things.

The B to C bit above FL245 will not be an issue - somewhere in the documents it says that ac (both mil and civil) will not be allowed to fly en-route VFR (in accordance with the ICAO SARPs regarding VFR flight above FL195). In other words, we will manage the airspace in the same way we currently manage Class B, all we have done is change a name.

Dropping the DFL down to 195 may be a little more interesting:

a. A small number of aircraft will no longer have the freedom to operate at about 20 000ft VFR (I'm thinking of some PFA types and/or some of the ex-mil jets that can't fly IFR).

b. Service provision. If it is CAS then someone must provide a service. How are the mil/NATS going to divvi this up? Is there adequate CNS infrastructure (N. Sea etc)?

c. Mil tactical freedom. I guess that the mil will still want autonomous ops in the FL195-245 areas that are currently Class G (mon-fri, that is). How are we going to switch great blocks of sky between C/G status?

d. Has anyone done a Regulatory Impact Assessment? Whatever changes are implemented, this will cost. Does the UK actually need to do this? Airspace requirements around the periphery of Europe are noticeable different to those in the central region. Unfortunately, under the SES legislation, new airspace rules are subject to majority voting. Consequently, I'm not convinced the UK has the ability to say 'No'.

e. Off route satus, as already implicated, needs looking at. Who will take the additional workload. (I heard a rumour that a large proportion of military controlled traffic over the weekends is civil airliners in the FL180- FL245 off-route, "I'll just have a RAS", category). If this airspace becomes Class C, should the mil still provide the service or should NATS absorb these aircraft?

f. ADRs, what happens to them? Do they adopt UAR status when the Class C is acitive? If so, what are they if/when the airspace reverts to Class G for the Mil?

g. How is this little lot going to be depicted in the AIP or on a map?

h. Once we have implemented Class C in the UK (there has never really been a reason why we have not), is there a requirement to re-visit all the CTRs. For example, some CTRs are already managed like Class C and in some circumstances this can be justified. Similarly, does Heathrow really need a Class A CTR when all the current differences (SVFR, Cat B ops etc) mean it is already managed like Class C?

Lots of work here for someone....................

[DFC]

UK is dragging it's heels on this one so most of Europe will have or already has implemented the change and has the procedures for VFR flight above FL195 in place - see AIC from somehwere like France or Ireland where the C 195+ is already working. No complaints from anyone in those airspaces so probably operating without many problems.


What is going to be interesting is when the next lower layer of airspace is looked at - Class D FL115 to FL195 anyone?

and then Class E FL55 to FL115? That is going to be a very interesting change! but by then I will probably simply turn the hearing aid down to avoid all the wails and cries! :)

Regards,

DFC

[BDiONU]

The word on the street is that its the Military who are having 'problems' and UK may ask for a years extension on the planned implementation date of March 2006.

BD

[Jets R4 Kids]

Googling 'CAA + class C airspace' gives you the proposal document sent out last year (replies to be in by 8/11/05).

If (!) I read it correctly, GA VFR will be effectively banned from the existing Airways structure above FL195, so no calls for crossing clearance and - in that respect - from a civil area controllers point of view, little change.
When they look at Class C below FL195 (2008 ?), that will be the interesting bit : GA has every right to cross en-route CAS, but how we accomodate that will be the challenge !

(...and they've been doing it for years on the continent...)

It should mean a little more direct routeing - but only at weekends/evening when the mil give us 'off-route' status.

The 'Cost/Benefit' bit does envisage needing more controllers - not sure from where!


JR4K

[Matt Skrossa]

GA above FL195?????? Almost all GA aircraft are either limited by performance, or more importantly by the inabilty to breathe properly above about 10-12 thousand feet without oxygen. In fact the most likely contenders to be at these sort of levels are glider pilots.