Bellview crashed after take off ???

[Ned-Air2Air]

Just heard on the news a Boeing 737 has gone missing on a flight from Lagos to somewhere else in Nigeria.

They are saying its crashed into the sea somewhere.

Ned

[oneeyed]

Thats what CNN is reporting - no further news as of yet:

Nigerian jet missing after takeoff
From CNN Africa Correspondent Jeff Koinange


Sunday, October 23, 2005; Posted: 3:55 a.m. EDT (07:55 GMT)


A number of high-level Nigerian officials are believed to have been on board.WATCH Browse/Search

Nigerian airliner missing (2:37)
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Manage Alerts | What Is This? LAGOS, Nigeria (CNN) -- A passenger jet with 114 people on board disappeared from radar shortly after taking off from the commercial capital of Lagos, and Nigerian authorities say the plane had gone down.

The Boeing 737 left Murtala Muhammed airport at 7 p.m. (2 p.m. ET) Saturday and was en route to Nigeria's capital, Abuja -- a trip that should have taken about 50 minutes.

The pilot of Flight 210 issued a distress call just before the control tower lost sight of the plane about three minutes after takeoff, officials said.

Several high-level Nigerian officials were believed to be on board the privately-owned Bellview Airlines jet, the office of President Olusegun Obasanjo told CNN. They were headed to Abuja for a meeting.

The Nigerian airline is popular with expatriates living in the West African nation and Western diplomats feared several their citizens could have been on board, according to Reuters news agency.

The airline has been operating for about 10 years and has no record of any incidents.

The Federal Airports Authority of Nigeria said two helicopters had been scrambled to search for the plane.

Relatives of those on board have also chartered a helicopter to look for the plane, while teams have been dispatched to search on land and in the water.

A statement from Bellview Airlines, read on Nigerian television, said the airline was "not able to confirm the whereabouts of the aircraft."

The twin-engine plane had a capacity of 120 people, but there were 114 on board, 108 passengers and 6 crew.

A storm was passing through Lagos about the time the flight left, according to CNN's Jeff Koinange.

There were widespread rains and thunderstorms around the southwestern corner of Nigeria, particularly near Lagos to Ibadan, said CNN's meteorologist Mari Ramos.

Flights leaving Lagos fly out over the Gulf of Guinea in the Atlantic Ocean, before turning back to reach Abuja, according to Koinange, so it is likely helicopters will be searching the Atlantic coast.

If the plane did crash, Boeing spokeswoman Liz Verdie said they would work with the U.S. National Transportation Safety if invited to do so.

The normally bustling airport in Lagos was quiet on Sunday morning as coordination efforts were underway to find the plane, Koinange said

[Flying Touareg]

it is a sad day .the wreckage has been found.

[GlobalFlyer]

Where has the wreckage been found?

Let us pray for survivors.

[Nigerian Expat Outlaw]

Global,

Wreckage found in Oyo state north of Lagos. 50 or more survivors reported.

Very sad. RIP.

NEO

edited to include survivors reported on Sky news.

[Gunship]

:sad: What a tragic night - A sad and tragic loss. :sad:

Our company's sincerest condolences to our colleagues at Bellview.


RIP

[soups]

At least half the passengers survived.
However rescue got to the crash scene about 13 hours after the plane crashed.

[Gunship]

Whale blamed for plane rumours

Cotonou - A sperm whale trapped in fishermen's nets made such a noise as it struggled that it sparked reports Sunday that the sound was that of a Nigerian jet crashing into the sea.

In fact, Nigerian officials said, the plane crashed on dry land 400km north of the coast just after dark on Saturday after taking off from Lagos.

Earlier, before the plane's wreckage had been found, fishermen from the neighbouring city of Cotonou had reported a mysterious large object dropping into the sea.

"We were heading out to sea at around nightfall, when I saw a large mass fall into the water," fisherman Pierre Ahouansou told AFP on his return to the port of Cotonou in Benin.

"It was a great big thing. It shook the surface of the water," he said.

Ahouansou's apprentice, Pamphele Folly, confirmed the sighting. Both spoke to a reporter before hearing reports of the missing airliner.

It was intially thought that the sound might have been that of the missing jet, but Chinese trawlerman Li Wong later cleared up the confusion.

"In fact, we caught a sperm whale last night and it made a lot of noise as we hauled it in," he told AFP in Cotonou harbour.

Nigerian officials said that a Boeing 737 airliner with 114 people on board disappeared a matter of minutes after taking off from Lagos at 19:50 (20:50 GMT) on Saturday.

From News 24

An airport spokesman said it was possible the plane had either crashed or been hijacked.

From Skynews

[Rani]

It is very sad to realize that it takes a crash (and loss of human life) to convince politicians in Abuja that the TRACON (Total Radar Coverage of Nigeria) project is imperative for safety and disaster management. Early pinpointing of the crash sight might have averted MANY deaths. The survivors had to wait an agonizing 12 hours to be rescued.

Condolences to Bellview + relatives of the victims.

[Gunship]

I have read your posts many times Rani and it is quite clear that you have lots of info on Nigeria.

So would you say that many more people could have survived was there full radar coverage.

I mean it was nightfall already but saying that the first reports showed that it was crashing in the sea ... that is a long way from the accident site ?

It is too late - it remains a tradegy but hopefuly somebody will wake up now :(

[flyboy2]

'Half survived plane crash'
23/10/2005 14:02 - (SA)









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Abuja - More than half of the 116 passengers and crew on board a crashed Nigerian airliner survived, a spokesperson for the local state government told AFP.

Adeola Oloko, Oyo State's chief press secretary, said that an emergency broadcast had called for all medical personnel in the region to head to the crash site to tend to the injured.

The missing Nigerian airliner crashed in a remote rural area 400km north of Lagos, an airline official told AFP on Sunday.

The plane took off at about 19:50 (20:50GMT) on Saturday from Lagos bound for Abuja and rapidly vanished from radar screens, police and aviation officials said.

Initially, the Federal Airports Authority of Nigeria (Faan) said they suspected that the Bellview Airline Boeing 737 jet had plunged into the Atlantic as it looped round over the sea before turning north.

[Gunship]

http://www.news24.com/Images/Photos/2005102313472223_plane.jpg

Nigerian rescue teams raced to recover injured survivors on Sunday after an airliner with 117 people on board crashed in a remote rural area.

"More than half of the people on board survived," said Adeola Oloko, chief press secretary to the government in Oyo State north of Lagos, where the aircraft came down, announcing a major rescue effort.

A message had been broadcast across Oyo State calling for all health workers to make their way to the crash site in the town of Kishi, 400km north of Lagos, he said.

The Bellview Airlines Boeing 737 airliner took off at 19:50 (18:50GMT) on Saturday from Lagos on a scheduled service bound for Abuja and rapidly vanished from radar screens, aviation officials said.

"We lost contact with it about three minutes after take-off," said a Bellview staff member at the firm's office in Lagos domestic airport.

Officials initially said that there were 116 people on board, but a copy of the flight manifest passed to reporters listed 111 passengers and six crew.

President Olusegun Obasanjo's office called for Nigerians to pray for the victims and said that emergency reponse teams and rescue helicopters had been sent to the scene.

The president's spokesperson, Remi Oyo, confirmed that there had been survivors, but could not say how many. "God has been gracious, but I don't have the figures yet," she said.

A spokesperson for the Economic Community of West African States (Ecowas), the 15 nation regional bloc, said the group's deputy executive secretary for politics, defence and security, Malian General Cheik Oumar Diarra, and a Ghanaian finance officer, Emmanuel Quaye, were on board the flight.

It was not clear whether they were among the survivors.

Diplomats said that they had been told that the plane was missing. It was not clear whether any foreign citizens were on board but the service is popular with expatriates travelling to Abuja.

Nigeria has a terrible record for aviation safety and has been the scene of numerous crashes, including an accident in May 2002 when an airliner plunged into a suburb of Kano, killing 115 on board and scores more on the ground.

There have been a number of recent near misses, including an incident in July in which an Air France jet arriving in the oil city of Port Harcourt from Paris hit a herd of cows.

No-one was hurt in the incident, but the plane was badly damaged.

Full report (http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/News/0,,2-11-1447_1821789,00.html)

Very early for rumours but lost contact 3 minutes after take off and crashed 400 km away - eischhh does not calculate unless total loss of electrics ?

To top the tradegy I see the Nigerian First Lady died while undergoing surgery in Spain.

RIP

[soups]

Red Cross: THERE ARE NO SURVIVORS!

[ACN_Pilot]

Very sad day for Nigerian aviation, here was a promising airline. I really hope the authorities do their best to rescue effort. Rumours at the moment suggest it was Ghanian f/o and a Nigerian Captain flying.

ACN_Pilot

[Rani]

According to the Passenger Manifest, Major Joseph Haydon (American citizen) and head of the OCD (Office of Defense Cooperation, which is basically the military liason with the Nigerian Army/Air Force) was on board.

Major Haydon was one of 5 white passengers.

I hope to God that this was not an Al-Qaeda attack, or any other conspiracy for that matter. However, the significance of this fact is chilling.

[Gouabafla]

My thoughts and prayers are with all involved.

[nomoneynowek]

disregard

[Amadu]

Captain Imasuen Lambert - Okada, Albarka, very experienced
F/O Eshun Ernest

Cabin Crew
Etim Victoria
Ukuwelah Lulu
Queen Ozekhome

Engineer Sanni Steve

[Flying Touareg]

30 MAR 2005 Engine fire on takeoff causes grass fire at Kano
An engine fire on a departeding Boeing 737 caused grass on the Kano Airport, Nigeria to catch fire. The resulting bush fire caused serious damage to the transformers and electrical cables serving runway 24. The Bellview Airlines B737 5N-BFN landed safely back at Kano without injury to the 96 passengers and five crew members.

Was it the same plane that crashed?

It also seems there are alot of questions that need to be answered especially considering the fact that the weather was really bad with serious thunderstorm at the time.I wonder how regular is the weather update in Nigeria?

[Dotun]

Amadu, I dont think its right to put the names on the net.

Regards
DMan

[Amadu]

dman, apologies to all. withdrawn. i share the same grief and sorrow though, with due respect.

[Rani]

OK I know that sometimes the word LOGIC is absent from the Nigerian environment but here is a simple question:

If the a/c was cleared to take off rwy 01R and cleared for Abuja, what on earth were those AIR FORCE helicopters searching for in the Atlantic Ocean? Did it not occur to them that it would be wiser to check with FAAN and ATC re the flight plan instead of relying on rumors?

Nomatter the cause of the accident, I believe we all agree that the pace and overall organization of the s+r mission operation was both pathetic and despicable.

It is about time that the Govt. and its agencies took disaster management seriously.

[GlobalFlyer]

5N-BFN

I believe it was leased from GECAS. Reported in the media to have underwent a C-check at Royal Air Marcoc 3 months ago, and an A-check 10 hours prior to its ultimate take off.

Does an A-check include engine inspections?

[surely not]

Condolences to all who have lost family or friends in this accident.

I have flown with Bellview on several occassions, and on one occassion had a lengthy delay in Accra whilst the crew waited for the storm to move off the intended route and away from Lagos. Proffessional in all but the information flow to waiting passengers.

Having seen the pictures of the crash site in papers this morning, I am amazed anyone could have thought there were survivors. For news agencies to give false hope to anxious relatives is not good.

[ChiefT]

Bad day, especially for Nigerian aviation, but for Nigeria at all.

The Nigerian president's wife died during a surgery in Spain.

My thoughts are with all families affected by the two events.

[Gunship]

Abuja - Nigerian authorities have banned the private television station whose reporters were the first to find the site where an airliner crashed killing all 117 on board, the national broadcasting commission announced on Monday.

Reporters from Lagos-based African Independent Television (AIT) were the first to reveal on Sunday that the Bellview Airlines Boeing 737 had come down a short distance outside Lagos in the village of Lissa, a cocoa growing area near President Olusegun Obasanjo's farm in Otta.

Earlier, several Nigerian officials had incorrectly told journalists that the crash site was in Kishi, a remote rural area 400km further north. AIT's report allowed many reporters travelling to the scene to alter course and head for the true location.

Reports 'confusing'

Despite this, a statement from the national broadcasting commission accused Nigerian outlets in general of causing "confusion" in the international media through their reporting.

The statement also said AIT in particular had been guilty of a breach in reporting standards in its depiction of dismembered bodies at the crash site in a filmed report and in confirming that no-one had survived before receiving an official statement to that effect.

"The commission is constrained to order the temporary shut down of the operations of Daar Communications Ltd, operators of AIT National and International and Raypower FM stations, pending further professional assessment of the status of their licences," the statement said.

AIT television was off air on Monday, as was Daar's popular FM radio station.

A Daar executive said the station stood by its report and would be appealing the ban, but would abide by the commission's decision until the dispute was resolved.

Link (http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/News/0,,2-11-1447_1822444,00.html)

http://www.news24.com/Images/Photos/20051023202610Crash.jpg

The flight data recorders on board a crashed Nigerian airliner have not yet been found, the country\'s aviation minister said at the crash site on Monday, contradicting an earlier statement by police.

"We are still investigating," said Babalola Borisade. "We have not found the black box. It\'s believed to be inside the body of the aircraft, which is buried under the ground."

The minister said that boxes would not be dug up until forensic scientists - including two experts who are due to arrive from the United States - had examined what remained of the Boeing 737 on the ground in order to find the cause of the crash.

On Sunday, Police Commissioner Tunji Alapini told AFP that the boxes had been recovered when his men arrived at the scene. Several statements made by Nigerian officials since the crash have later proved to be mistaken.

Black box date recorders are designed to survive an aircraft and keep an electronic record of cockpit conversations and instrument readings in order to help investigators discover the cause of air accidents.

All 117 passengers and crew on board the Bellview Airlines flight from Lagos to Abuja were killed on Saturday when the plane crashed into a cocoa grove shortly after take-off. There has been no official news on the cause of the crash.

Local witnesses told AFP the jet appeared to explode in mid-air before it plunged to the ground.

http://www.news24.com/Images/Photos/2005102411032524_nigeria_crash.jpg

[spacedaddy]

____________________________________________________
More than half of the passengers survived?
The boxes were (were not) recovered?
Your broadcast license is suspended for telling the truth? (How dare you?)
____________________________________________________

Doesn't seem like the CAA of Nigeria is very independent. Certainly they aren't professional. Oil will be the only reason if Virgin-Nigeria is allowed to operate to the USA. H@ll, South Africa itself is on the borderline and we're a whole lot better than that.
Seems like the more water under the bridge the more the scenery remains the same. Personally I'm disgusted. These were real people with still living loved-ones. Shame again!

[Gunship]

Nigeria is to review the safety of the ageing fleet of passenger jets operated by its small private airlines following a crash, which killed 117 people, President Olusegun Obasanjo said on Tuesday.

An investigation has been launched to find out why a Bellview Airlines Boeing 737 plunged to the ground and disintegrated shortly after taking off from Lagos on Saturday, but the president said that checks must also be carried out on the maintenance standard of other planes.

"I have already ordered a full and thorough investigation into the cause of the air crash with a view to ensuring that this sort of calamity does not repeat itself," Obasanjo said, in a televised address to the nation.

"In addition, I have directed the aviation ministry to ensure strict compliance with maintenance and operations requirements and standards for all aircraft in order to plug loopholes and ensure passenger safety," he said.

Second-hand jets

Domestic routes between Nigeria's larger cities are connected by a network of passenger flights run by almost a dozen private airlines operating second-hand jets, mostly Boeing 727 and 737 airliners.

Most of the airlines are not licensed to fly internationally but some, including Bellview and the country's new British-owned flag-carrier Virgin Nigeria, serve west African capitals and fly to London. Several major international airlines operate flights to Lagos, Abuja and Port Harcourt.

The Nigerian aviation industry has a bad safety record and minor accidents are relatively common. In July alone, three airliners were damaged after landing on Lagos' poorly surfaced runway while an Air France jet ploughed into a herd of cows as it touched down in Port Harcourt.

In May 2002, a Nigerian passenger jet crashed into a crowded suburb shortly after taking off from Kano airport in the north of the country, killing 115 on board and scores more on the ground.

[Flying Touareg]

IG: Bellview Plane May Have Exploded

Hey, the story below is beginning to confirm our fears!!I knew that plane disintegrated before crashing.

www.thisdayonline.com
Police cordon off crash site
By Godwin Ifijeh, 10.24.2005

The Inspector General of Police (IGP), Mr. Sunday Ehindero, said yesterday that investigation into the crashed Bellview flight 210 would be exhaustive, alleging that there was an explosion before the aircraft came down.
Ehindero, who made the disclosure at the scene of the crash during a visit there in company of the Ogun State Governor Gbenga Daniel and senior police officers, said intelligence report indicate that the ill-fated plane came down with all the 117 persons on board killed after an explosion.
Though Ehindero will not give further details, the police warned that those who have no business going near the crash site should keep off.
The police, which issued the warning through the Deputy Inspector General of Police (DIG), 'B' Depart-ment (Operations), Mr. Mike Okiro, who was at the site much earlier, said the police have cordoned off the scene and would not tolerate any one, that has no business being there to come near until investigations into the crash was completed.
Okiro said rescue operation was over as it was obvious from the evidence at the site that there was nothing more to be salvaged, the passengers on board the aircraft, having all died.
Governor Gbenga Daniel on the other hand, who had cut short his visit to the United States, to race back to the country on hearing the twin tragedy of the death of the First Lady, Mrs. Stella Obasanjo, and the crash of the Bellview aircraft in the little village of Lisa, near Ifo, in Ifo Local Government Area of his State, was horrified by the terrifying sight at the scene.
Daniel had after inspecting the scene said “I am not an aviation expert, but I think what happened must have happened mid air.”
The Governor prayed for the repose of the souls of the victims.

[GlobalFlyer]

It does seem as if a catastrophic inflight explosion shortly after take off led to the aircraft crashing down in neighboring Ogun State.

This would explain why some clothing articles were found with not a single drop of blood on them, as an inflight explosion may have caused a rapid aircraft disintegration and less bodily injury.

If this is what happened, then it is highly possible that more aircraft debris may be found elsewhere.

The question now is why did the major section of the aircraft crash down with such force as to cause a 20-m deep crater (or is it 20 meters wide?). Perhaps the ground is soft clay?

[soups]

There were 10 Ghanaians on the plane.
9 of them were flying ACC-LOS-ABV while the 10th was the F/O.
Also a british and 2 german confirmed

[Flying Touareg]

sadly,the f/o s wife was also aboard.there are rumours that the captain s name was not the name in the flight plan submitted.

[Rani]

Some food for thought:

"...On December 8, 1962 lighting hit a Pan American Boeing 707 in a holding pattern over Elkton, Md. The lightning caused a spark that ignited fuel vapor in a tank, causing an explosion that brought the plane down, killing all 81 aboard.
"

USA TODAY ARTICLE

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/resources/askjack/2003-05-06-lightning-airplanes_x.htm

[LongJohnThomas]

Sadly guys,
With due respect,the bellview pilots have been recorded to have been flying an average of 170 hours a month and the captain in question flew 202 hours just two months ago and was fined by the Nigerian Civil Aviation Authority.
The fines for all pilots concerned was paid up ny the owner of bellview,who inturn,did not inform the pilots that the authorities were now frowning at such blatant disregard for air safety!
It really makes one wonder what it is that makes pilots do stuff like that!
Is it the money? Being The almighty company boy?
Puzzles me though!
Rumour has it that the airplane was rejected by the crew who actually brought the airplane into lagos before its departure for abuja.
I sincerely would like to extend my condolences to the families affected.
It is a sad event, but, the truth must be told! I was given the info by a petrified pilot who would rather remain unknown.
Guys,stuff like thiss MUST STOP on your end of the globe!
It certainly sends the wrong message to the rest of the world!:ok:

[GlobalFlyer]

Instead of relying on rumours why dont you wait for the investigation outcome, instead of blaming the airline. Above is irrelevent anyways. A/c had an A-check the day of the crash and all was in order.

[BlueVolta]

An A-check is nothing more than some paperwork and a "deeper" visual inspection.
I have seen A/C with more problems after a check than before...
And I imagine the nigerian check, the A/C has to fly so we just delete the HIL items waiting that they appear again, and sorry to say but this kind of practice is even true in Europe!

[Dotun]

I think its best to wait for the result of the enquiry. The engineer in question is very good (I know him), am sure he wont sign out the airplane and step into it, if he's unsure about its status.

Regards
DMan

[Engine Noise]

dman,your pm box is full.

[African Tech Rep]

Possibly not the place to say this – but I’ve known quite a few planes returned to Hanger by Line after a check, (not all companies would allow this) so having just had a check doesn’t rule anything out.

In fact in some places (not only in Africa) watching some people trying to find all their tools after a plane has gone can be scary but fun.
Especially scary if your the one who can't find something.

One interesting point is we seem often to get “pilot error” / “maintenance fault” / weather etc as causes (sometimes the cause – sometimes contributory) rarely “Company policy”.
NOT saying anything about this crash – just general comments.

On this one I will say the Nigerians should get NTSB involved big time – hope they do.

[Gunship]

With due respect,the bellview pilots have been recorded to have been flying an average of 170 hours a month and the captain in question flew 202 hours just two months ago and was fined by the Nigerian Civil Aviation Authority.
The fines for all pilots concerned was paid up ny the owner of bellview,who inturn,did not inform the pilots that the authorities were now frowning at such blatant disregard for air safety!

This is heartbreaking and must be condemned to the highest authority (if it is correct of course) :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Arctaurus]

A question:-

Is it fact that the crew got out a distress call or not ? What was the content of it, did anyone hear it ?

From the reporting, it seems that the crash site will have been heavily compromised given the uncontrolled public access that occurred until the authorities arrived.

A very sad event.

[Bzulu]

Bellview: Group Claims Responsibility

Daily Champion (Lagos)
NEWS
October 26, 2005
Posted to the web October 26, 2005

By Tony Ita Etim, Felix Nwaneri
Lagos/Port Harcourt
A shadowy group claiming to represent Niger Delta interest yesterday claimed responsibility for the crashed Bellview 210 plane.

Simply identified as Coalition for Militant Action in the Niger Delta (COMA), the group in a statement in Port Harcourt last night and signed by Alliance Leader, Alaye Temi and Chief Strategy, Architect David Igbi said that they will continue to target those who oppress the region.

The statement titled: "On the crash of the Bellview Airplane Boeing 737 on the 23rd of October, 2005: read:

"The Coalition for Militant Action in the Niger Delta (COMA) by this statement accepts the responsibility for the crash of the Bellview Airplane Boeing 737 which crashed into a remote area of Ogun State last Saturday few minutes after take-off.

"The crash at Ogun was not the expected outcome and was due to a failure of an installed deprogrammer aboard the airship.

"Let us once again state that we resist with vehemence the continued detention of the flag-bearer of the Niger Delta struggle, Mujahid Dokubo-Asari and until he is unconditionally released, we will continue to vent our anger on agents and infrastructures of the Nigerian state. They that haunt will be haunted. Those that sow deceit and discord will have fury visit them in their backyards.

"The continued explanation and despoliation of the Niger Delta will be resisted with all our might. The vain glory vaunted by the falsehood called Nigeria shall be called to nought. We will state again that if Dokubo-Asari is not released in good time, we shall release fear and insecurity in the hearts and minds of every cohort of the Obasanjo regime. This government is a fraud, utterly vindictive and lack the will to provide to the Niger Delta, the quality of life that they deserve.

"The Coalition of Militant Action (COMA), is a strategic alliance of all militant groups in the Niger Delta who reject the strange decision of the Niger Delta People's Volunteer Force to stay militant action. Alliance members include: The Isein Justice Movement, Ijaw Militant Group, Niger Delta Guerillas, The Ogoni Justice Seekers, the Movement for Mass Militancy in the Niger Delta, Judgement Day Coalition and several others.

"In our earlier communications, we maintained that "Our actions will be swift, heavy hitting and decisive. Nothing will be the same again. You do not abduct a leader and flagbearer like Dokubo-Asari and still believe that all can still be well." We stand by all these.

"All Niger Deltans and friends of the Niger Delta are advised to stay off suspected targets. There shall be no vindictive action on the basis of tribe and ethnicity. Fury action taken will be focused on interests and agents of the government of the Nigerian state.

"We therefore call on all Niger Deltans to support our cause. We have been pushed to the wall and have turned about. It is either Dokubo-Asari is released OR they will see no peace.
"Let us now begin to watch and pray."

Meanwhile, Inspector-General of Police, Mr. Sunday Ehindero may have goofed as government yesterday said Black Box of the ill-fated Bellview aircraft which crashed last Saturday at Lisa, Ogun State, has not been found.

Ehindero had told reporters at site of the crash that the black box had been found by his men.
Confirmation to this effect, is coming even as government has officially invited United States government to assist in unraveling mystery behind the tragedy.

Ehindero, who visited the accident scene in company of Deputy Inspector-General of Police (DIG Operations) Mike Okiro and outgoing Ogun State Police Commissioner, Tunji Alapini had said that the box was found on Sunday and handed over to an investigating team by a Police rescue team led by Commissioner of Police (Air Wing), Charles Cole.

However, Minister of Aviation, Prof. Babalola Borishade, same day countered the claims, saying the box is yet to be recovered as the aircrafts fuselage, location of the box, is yet to be pulled out from a crater made by the crash.

Refuting IGP's claim, yesterday, NCAA Director-General, Fidelis Onyeyiri, who spoke through his media assistant, Sam Adurogboye said: "There is no misinformation on this matter. The Black Box has not been found."

The NCAA, however advised anyone who by accident stumbles on the box, to hand it over to the Accident Investigation and Prevention Bureau (AIPB) of the Ministry of Aviation.
On assistant from the U.S. government, the NCAA spokesman said the authority has written to the US government on behalf of the Federal Government for assistance concerning investigations into the crash.

"Nigeria has made request in all areas including investigations, escavation and getting to the root of the accident as well as upliftment of the nation's aviation industry" he said.
A letter in that respect, made available to journalists, dated October 24, 2005, addressed to US government through its embassy in Abuja stated thus:

"We wish to refer to the telephone conversation between the Hon. Minister of Aviation and the Consular-General of the Embassy of the U. S in Lagos.

"Following this discussion, we wish to formally request for technical assistance in our determined effort to move the aviation industry forward especially in the light of the recent accident involving a Boeing 737 aircraft in our country."

Meanwhile, the AIPB of the Ministry of Aviation has said it will be conducting an eye-witness interview of persons with credible information on the crash.

A statement issued by the Federal Airports Authority of Nigeria (FAAN), signed by its General Manager (Public Affairs) Niyi Ajakaiye, said persons with useful information relating to the crash, from the time it took off till the time of crash, are requested to report in person at the Baale of Lissa Igbore's residence today.

"It also said second segment of the interview will take place between October 31 and November 5 at the Boardroom of FAAN in Lagos.

http://allafrica.com/stories/200510260698.html

[GlobalFlyer]

Yeah right, as if I will believe the above article....

Another hopelessly false media coverage.....

[BlueVolta]

What a nice article, if there were no 117 dead it would be nearly an happy ending...
What is a "deprogrammer"???
The rebels are the bad ones, let them bomb a little bit, Bellview is not responsible, and as the black box is missing all will remain a mystery!

[Bzulu]

I was hoping that someone here might me able to provide the meaning of "failure of an installed deprogrammer aboard the airship".

GlobalFlyer, I gave a link. Perhaps others can provide further details.

Don't shoot the messenger.

The plot thickens. :rolleyes:

Dokubo washes hands off Bellview Plane crash
Posted To The Web: Thursday, October 27, 2005 - By John Ighodaro

PORT HARCOURT — Detained leader of the Niger Delta Peoples Volunteer Force, (NDPVF), Alhaji Mujaheed Dokubo-Asari, has dissociated himself from the crash of the Bellview Airline, which claimed 117 lives last weekend, saying he had no hand in the tragedy.

He also described the group, the Coalition for Militant Action in the Niger Delta (COMA), which allegedly claimed responsibility for the crash in a statement dated October 23, 2005 as “non-existent” but only out to drag his name in the mud.

This was part of a statement issued in Port Harcourt yesterday and signed by his lawyer, Uche Okwukwu. He further described the statement issued by COMA as most irresponsible, intending to achieve nothing than to blackmail Alhaji Mujahid Dokubo-Asari and the Niger Delta in general.

His words: “All the organizations claiming to be in alliance with the non-existent militant body, do not exist. For example, there is no movement, group or organization known as the Ogoni Justice Seekers.

“I urge the general public, the security agencies, government and the families of the victims of the ill-fated crashed plane, to disregard the contention of this non-existent group and see Alhaji Dokubo-Asari as one who is touched by these deaths,” his Attorney said.

He expressed condolence to President Olusegun Obasanjo and other Nigerians on the death of the First Lady, Chief Stella Obasanjo and the loss of lives in the plane crash over the last weekend, he said

A group, which called itself COMA, had claimed responsibility for the Bellview plane crash and attributed its action to the continued incarceration of Dokubo-Asari.

In a statement credited to one Alaye Teme, the Alliance Leader and David Igbi, Chief Strategy Architect, and published by some national dailies, the group said it would carry out more attacks if Dokubo-Asari was not released.

http://nm.onlinenigeria.com/templates/?a=5792&z=12

[Gunship]

I have seen lots of 419 magic before but this article takes the cake :ok: :ok: :ok:

"The crash at Ogun was not the expected outcome and was due to a failure of an installed deprogrammer aboard the airship.:E:E:E

[surely not]

Now that would be an interesting new entrant to the market, an airship operator!

Surely a 'deprogrammer' only works on aircraft that has a modern computer cockpit, which the 737-200 doesn't.

[ZAZOO]

Dman & NDB17 give my bro in London a call so he can fix you up with a number to reach me in Nigeria, switched off my old number for now. We need to talk!

Flew into PH this morning to spend the weekend with my family(Thierry is also with me from Dallas)

Been at the guest house in Ikeja with the guys since we lost November, Ernest and the rest of the crew, as you know Sarah had joined him on the nightstop to Abuja and that was not made known to me until monday afternoon. I am so devastated by it all.

I miss him so much.

Wept uncontrollably when we landed in PHC this morning.

[Dotun]

No probs my man, WILCO. He was a nice guy, I was going through my phone and came across his number (Ernest), not sure whether to delete it or not. Skipper was a good guy as well, we used to bet on who could make the best greaser (no floating ofcourse). I remember my last flight with him from ABV, nasty storm over LAG, ended up coming in on R(030) or something funny like that. I will really miss them all.

Regards
DMan

[Gunship]

Nigeria is set to begin the excavation of the fuselage of a commercial plane that crashed last week, killing all 117 passengers and crew on board.

Officials said the main body of the Abuja-bound Bellview 737 jet which plunged into the ground on October 22 was still buried under the ground with the black box and bodies of some of the victims.

A spokesperson for the national emergency management agency, Ibrahim Farinloye, said investigators and rescuers were now ready to dig out the remains of the ill-fated aircraft from the grove at Lisa, about 50km from Lagos.

"The Nigerian and American experts probing the crash have disclosed that they are now set. The excavation exercise will start on Monday," he said.

He said equipment for the job had been moved to the site while the area was cordoned off by security agents.

Four air accident investigators from the US have been visiting the site to take photographs and collect samples of objects of the crash.

The plane lost contact with the control tower three minutes after take-off from Lagos airport, but it took about 16 hours before the crash site was found.

Link (http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/News/0,,2-11-1447_1825997,00.html)

[African Tech Rep]

Four air accident investigators from the US have been visiting the site to take photographs and collect samples of objects of the crash.
Maybe they read my previous post ;)
Seriously - if correct it should lend lots of credence to the official report when we get it.

[dodoflies]

As you say,dunno whether do delete his number(Ernest) or not. I recieved a last sms from him on the 18/10 saying that he need to pay a visit. Was at the guest house in LOS every single weekend and had good time.Will be indeed sadly missed.May their souls rest in peace.

[abujaflyer]

Latest press reports are saying that a forged Maintenance certificate was given to Air France by a Nigerian carrier who had engine problems in Abidjan recently, carrier not identified but from the article it left no doubt who it was. Most embassies now banning their staff from all carriers except ACN and Virigin Nigeria. Also rumours that UK CAA will check B3 on next trip to London.

My deepest condolences to the families of the crew and passengers of flight 210.

[Amadu]

abuja flyer. welcome aboard.
abuja mate!

[Amadu]

I. R PIRATE or whatever your name is,thank God even in the most powerful naton on earth, at the time of hurricanes, they always have to contend with looters.
Looters like you,that i do not know

[I.R.PIRATE]

As I said.....In true african fashion!!

[Rani]

First, the alleged looting was not confirmed by official sources. Only a single newspaper carried the headline. We all know the sad state of Nigerian journalism so I wouldn't chew on it.

How unfortunate, instead of engaging in constructive analysis and follow-up on the Bellview accident, this thread is being high-jacked by diatribe-spilling folks.

As Amadu rightfully stated, anti-civilization behavior is not restricted to poor nations but was also observed in the world's only "super power", with its generous contribution of pirates, serial killers, and rapists.

It should come as no surprise, then, to see the desperately poor seize every opportunity to lift them from misery - even if it entails disrespecting the dead and robbing their families. In my opinion the most grotesque thieves are the politicians. But that's another thread/website.

[I.R.PIRATE]

Fine, have it your way, post retracted, reality concealed.

[HappyPilot]

As usuall, we get the odd idiot here now and again.

[Trinity 09L]

:( I had a former colleague on board the flight - one of the few Brits -would like any current info on recovery etc - I know the FCO UK maybe trying - but local info appreciated. I understand and can take all the comments - maybe someone can pm.
regards to all in your area.

[Bzulu]

It appears that there have been ongoing "discussions" between the US and Nigerian agencies regarding the investigation and retrieval of evidence. However, not before time, all hopefully seems to now be on track.
-----------------------------------------
Escavation of Crashed Aircraft Begins Today
Posted To The Web: Monday, October 31, 2005 - By Ndubuisi Francis

More than a week after the tragic Bellview crash in Lisa Village, Ifo local government area of Ogun State which claimed 117 lives, all seems set for the escavation of the remains of the B737 airplane.

The relevant agencies, including the Accident Investigation and Prevention Bureau (AIP), a directorate of the Ministry of Aviation; accident investigators from the United States National Transport Safety Board (NSTB), Boeing officials and insurers of the airplane, Llyods of London, among others, have already visited the site to assess the situation.

THISDAY gathered that the relevant bodies used the visit, among others, to know exactly the type of equipment required to begin the escavation. It is believed that construction giant, Julius Berger will provide the heavy equipment needed for the removal of the remnant of the crashed plane.

Meanwhile, Bellview Airl-ines has already announced that it will this week begin the process of initial disbursement of insurance compensation as the collation of personal data of the next of kin of victims of the crash has been smooth.

The airline's management said at the weekend that many bereaved families have filled forms and that because of "the very high level of co-operation by the family members, we are sure we can begin the process of initial disbursement of insurance compensation next week (this week)".

While expressing appreciation for the co-operation it has received from the families of the victims, the airline enjoined them to "continue in their attitude of patience and understanding". It also urged relatives of other victims who have not collected the compesation forms to do so at the airline's head office "where all required support is being provided to enhance the collation process."

Bellview said the compensation is an interim arrangement "to cushion the financial strain that an accident such as this may cause to the families of the victims concerned; and our insurers have shown great understanding to make this possible."

In related developments, the Nigerian Civil Aviation Authority (NCAA), the Airline Operators of Nigeria (AON) and aviation industry player, Mr. Nick Fadugba have called for caution on comments concerning the possible cause of the crash.

NCAA stated that contrary to some comments, the crashed airplane was not old since it was manufactured in 1981.

The Authority stated that the aircraft underwent a C-check only in February this year and was an advanced type of B737-200 series which most popular carriers in the world use for their short-haul operations.
On search and rescue, NCAA stated that the Nigerian Airspace Managment Agency (NAMA) and National Emergency Management Agency (NEMA) are saddled with the responsibility.

Also speaking with aviation correspondents on the crash, Fadugba who is the Publisher of African Aviation magazine based in London said he was immensely concerned about "wild rumours, speculation and conjecture regarding the cause of the Bellview Airlines accident".

He said such rumours range from technical fault with the aircraft to its age and to possible sabotage as well as inclement weather.

"I would like to call upon the Nigerian public, members of the House of Assembly and the national media to please exercise patience and restraint until the official report into the actual cause of the accident is prepared by the Nigerian and international air accident experts who have commenced work. We call upon the Federal Ministry of Aviation to ensure that this official report is made public.

"Contrary to speculations in some quarters following the accident, it needs to be pointed out that Bellview Airlines is one of the leading private carriers in Nigeria and on the African continent. It has one of the largest fleets and largest networks operated by a private airline in Africa. In addition, it has the distinction of being the only member of the International Air Tansport association (IATA) Clearing House and the only airline in Nigeria certified by the European Air safety Agency (EASA).

"The woefully slow response to the accident-especially the search and rescue operation highlights the glaring inadequacies still present in the Nigerian aviation industry. I would like to call upon the Federal Government of Nigeria, the National Assembly, the Federal Ministry of Aviation and the entire Nigerian aviation industry to draw urgent lessons from this tragic event and to implement widespread reforms in the Nigerian aviation industry which will signficantly enhance the safety and security of air transport in Nigeria”, he said.

http://nm.onlinenigeria.com/templates/?a=5847&z=12

[Parrot]

As a matter of interest ... who owns Bellview ? ...and what have their comments been about the crash ?

I have only flown with them once ...on a flight from Lagos to Kano..and in this instance... they did an unscheduled stop in Abuja to drop off 3 pax... followed by a technical delay..resulting in about a 3 hour late arrival.

[enijose1]

I thought by now they would have suspended Bellview from flying until we are sure that they have stopped overworking their crew. We don't know what happened up there, but we do know that there was a serious lightning strike ( some serious jazz) and there was a Bellview plane with fatigued crew. The way they describe this accident be like say there fit be some survivors at least up to 12 hours later, because if they say the fuselage is buried under ground without it shattering into pieces, then there could have been survivors in the middle row, I think( well that is based on the description given by the media). Dotun i no know say you still sabi dis side.Hola!

[the_hawk]

we do know that there was a serious lightning strike ( some serious jazz) and there was a Bellview plane with fatigued crew

We do? We've got some rumours, that's all we've got...

[I.R.PIRATE]

P-P-R(UMOUR)-N-E :confused:

[Dotun]

I dont think NCAA should ban Bellview based on rumour. We really should wait for the results of the enquiry. The captain was very good knew very well what he was doing. I also know both crew (capt and f/o) did the last re-currency together at United Airlines in Denver.

Regards
DMan

[LongJohnThomas]

I.R Pirate, you again!!!???

[African Tech Rep]

Latest press reports are saying that a forged Maintenance certificate was given to Air France by a Nigerian carrier who had engine problems in Abidjan recently, carrier not identified but from the article it left no doubt who it was.

Interesting and I’m sure AF would recognise both a false CRS and a forged one – but why exactly were they looking at it ?
Guess they did the rectification so might look at last CRS – they would only be Certifying their work – but they could have refused to do so the work if they were that suspicious.
If AF (or anyone) is SURE the paperwork is false aren’t they required to make an immediate report to the appropriate NAA and would they really continue to work on the plane ?

Of course there have been instances where airline A doesn’t recognise a CRS held by airline B because it doesn’t look like theirs – in most cases this is because the NAA of airline A specify a Format while that of airline B specify the Content but not the format – and the required content can vary between NAA – but normally description of work / aircraft time / signature / date are included.

The AIB and NTSB will be checking CRS’s / Workpacks / Authorised Signatures – when they say something was wrong then I’ll give it far more credence.

PS
Know this is a Rumour network – just commenting on one posted.

PPS
Rani
In my opinion the most grotesque thieves are the politicians. But that's another thread/website. - thats why we have Jet Blast :D

[Flying Touareg]

Nigeria' s reputable newspaper, thisday carried this story today.
An intresting piece:

http://www.thisdayonline.com/nview.php?id=33140

There were speculations at the weekend that the October 22, crash of Bellview airlines flight 210 which claimed 117 passengers, including the Defence Attache of American Embassy, Mr Joseph Haydon, may have been more than an accident.
This comes as Bellview management yesterday denied insinuations that the aircraft had a problem and the late pilot made complaints about it before the ill-fated flight.
The sabotage theory, according to THISDAY investigation, may have compelled officials of American National Transportation and Safety Board (NTSB) at the crash site to invite men of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to come and help unravel what is becoming a mystery and criminal investigation.
There were fears in security circles that because the Bellview evening (last) flight is usually patronised by top government functionaries and diplomats, sabotage cannot be completely ruled out.
The Abuja-bound Bellview plane ran into trouble after it lost contact with the control towers three minutes after take-off in Lagos and was believed to have gone down with a big bang, a rare occurence in aviation accidents. The fussilage of the plane was finally escavated last Thursday.
According to sources, investigations so far have revealed that there has been no evidence of mechanical problem with the aircraft engine and the posers they raise are: 'Why will a plane suddenly drop from the sky without warning? How come all the systems went down at the same time?'
THISDAY investigations further reveal that up till now, the black box has not been found while a full seat of the aircraft cannot even be pieced together from the wreckage.
One of the Nigerian officials who has been part of the investigation said the US experts argue that plane don't just drop from the sky without any warning signals that would have been communicated with the Control Towers as it happened in the Bellview crash.
THISDAY checks reveal that when the pilot taxied on the tarmac, he was instructed to turn left by the contol tower but he said he would turn right because the weather was better along that direction. A few seconds later, he communicated back that he would turn left as instructed because he had discovered the weather was indeed better on the left.
The pilot was said to have spoken after three minutes of take off while ascending after which he lost contact with the control towers. He was expected to make another contact at ten minutes after take off but by then it had crashed.
Meanwhile, Habib Mohammed, Bellview Head of Corporate Affairs yesterday described as false and unhelpful speculations that the crashed aircraft had problems.
Mohammed's statement said Imasuen who was the Captain on that flight and who took professional responsibility for the lives of 116 other passengers that evening, was not suicidal. "He was a highly professional staff whose integrity remained unquestionable.
"First officer Ernest Eshun, who was the second in command on that flight and shared the responsibility for a safe and smooth operation of the aircraft, could also not have been a culprit. F O Eshun is newly married and his wife was on the same flight that killed him and his wife and 115 others.
"Would this team, who have so much to live for, have simply succumbed to pressure to fly an unsafe aircraft? Would they have invited their loved ones were they in doubt of the safety of the flight?
"Against the popular wisdom that in case of an accident like this it is destructive to speculate, why do so many people assume the expetise to know what went wrong with Flight 21O? This is unhelpful and misguiding to the general public. The procedure for verifying the safety and serviceability of an aircraft is tested, comprehensive and standardised all over the world, and thus dependable. All well meaning people must await the completion of this investigation, which is already underway.
"American National Transportation and Safety Board (NTSB) has volunteered experts to help with the investigations relating to the crash. The process when completed should have unquestionable credibility. Surely, all we have to do is wait.
"However, there is a need to clear certain untruths that so many non experts have peddled as a holy grail in the wake of the tragedy. One, that the aircraft involved undertook another domestic flight earlier that fateful day and after take-off 'jerked' and 'jerked' several times before it achieved stable cruising, and was therefore unsafe.
"Someone had told the press that he travelled on the same aircraft from Abuja (another said Port Harcourt) and that they heard loud complaints about the poor state of the aircraft. Neither of these stories was true. The aircraft involved in the accident has registration number 5N -BFN, and the ill-fated flight was its second operation that day. The first was a flight to Accra/Abidjan on the West Coast. No one could have encountered that aircraft on any domestic flight on Saturday 22nd of October 2005.
"Moreso, aircraft in essence respond to turbulence and weather movements. It is therefore not unusual to experience occasions of rough flights. More so that Bellview in particular has subjected itself to operation, maintenance and safety standards that are acclaimed in international Aviation; as an lATA member airline and achieving the European Air Safety (part 145) Certification.
"Another rumour is suggesting that the beacon (Emer-gency Locator Transmitter -ELT) on the aircraft was outdated and it was responsible for the long hours involved in searching for the accident site. This is not true. The 212.0 MHz frequency beacon, by ICAO's specification, remains valid till year 2009. A beacon that the world’s highest Aviation authority certifies till 2009 cannot be said to be outdated in 2005. And yes, that aircraft had the Storm Arrester too.
"Yet another rumour; that Captain Imasuen was overworked that day by the time he took up Flight 210. This is far from the truth. Captain Imasuen resumed work on Friday at 3.00pm and had done only one Abuja return flight before he captained Flight 21O. At 8.50.pm, he would have worked for only six hours at most. Aviation regulations clearly specify a 12hour working day for a pilot with a following rest period of 12 hours.
"Other stories were rife that Engineer Sanni was on board Flight 21O that day because the aircraft was problematic and he was needed to hold it together. Engineer Sanni was onboard because the aircraft was going to night-stop in Abuja. Aircraft which have to sleep over in a non base station of an airline must carry an engineer who will see to the release of the aircraft the next morning. An aircraft will only be so released after human and other waste has been evacuated, amongst other routine look-overs.
"A foreign agent was well published to have claimed that he flew the same aircraft on the fateful day from Freetown to Banjul. This is another falsehood. 5N-BFN was never in Freetown or Banjul that day. It operated the Accra-Abidjan-Lagos service smoothly on Saturday the 22nd.
"It is heart rending for anyone at this period to be accused of cajoling Captains and Cabin crew to fly aircraft that are not airworthy. A Captain or Crew who must fly a plane against his wish will not invite others, loved or not, to come and risk death with him. Bellview Airlines is grieving deeply because we lost personal friends and people we have worked with for years.

[Rani]

Hello,

Just one word of caution regarding ThisDay newspaper. While it is one of the top 3 "reliable" newspapers in Nigeria today, it has misled the public in the past. Notice how the headline itself is merely based on an "investigation" carried out by its journalist and makes no reference to official sources whatsoever.

Is that responsible journalism coming from a responsible newspaper? More like the Nigerian headline industry.

[Gunship]

Can only agree with Rani. Take a West African newspaper with a big pinch of salt.

You can pay almost nothing to publish anything used to be my motto.

From News24 :

Nigerian and US air accident investigators ended their inspection of the site of an airliner disaster on Sunday, but still have no idea why the plane crashed and killed all 117 people on board, an official said.

Recovery teams have yet to find the flight's data recorders, three weeks after Bellview Airlines flight 210 from Lagos to Abuja lost contact with air traffic controllers and plunged into a cocoa grove minutes after take-off.

"We couldn't find the black box.

"Nothing has been found which indicates the cause of the crash," Ibrahim Farinloye, spokesperson for the Nigerian federal government's national emergency management agency, told AFP.

"The US experts will continue to work with the little, little part of the aircraft that we found," he said, referring to a team of American investigators from both the US government and the manufacturers of the ill-fated Boeing 737.

Nothing ruled out

Asked to comment on Nigerian media reports that local experts were beginning to take seriously the idea that the jet was brought down by a bomb attack or sabotage, Farinloye said simply: "Nothing is ruled out."

On October 21 the crowded passenger airliner took off on a scheduled domestic flight between Lagos and Nigeria's capital Abuja in a powerful electric storm.

Air traffic control lost contact three minutes later.

Almost 24 hours afterwards, Nigerian television journalists found the wreckage of the 24-year-old aircraft on the outskirts of the farming village of Lissa a short drive north of Lagos.

Wreckage and dismembered corpses were spread over a wide area and in some cases buried deep in the ground by the force of the impact.

Witnesses said that the jet appeared to have exploded in mid-air prior to plunging to earth.

More than 900 people have died in Nigeria over the past 12 years in more than 30 aviation accidents.

Since last month's fatal crash one plane has been damaged while landing on Lagos's badly maintained runway and another has aborted its take-off from Abuja after sucking a bird into its jet engine.

International airlines have threatened to cancel their lucrative Lagos flights unless the government improves safety at Lagos, where only one runway is serviceable and where ground radar is turned off at weekends.

Link (http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/News/0,,2-11-1447_1833556,00.html)

[enijose1]

I guess at this point, they have been able to rule out all possible causes, except one, we are in Africa, and we are black, and yes, the new 1000 Naira note just came out, and to add to that, there was a terrible, really scary lightning that night. I actually saw that lightning, and believe me, these were my exact words, "God helps any aircraft flying through that". My daughter who schooled in Ogun state was actually the one that made me think about this. She said they were sitting outside when the lightning struck and since a lot of 'weird' things happens around her school, she and her friend ran to their hostel( because they thought it was jazz).

well, i don't believe in that.The Power of God i s stronger than all these . (Reality!)
i ma just thinking of a possibility that if they were struck by lightning, is it possible for them to loose all their instruments? I figure that at least the stand-by AH and altimeter would work., or are Gyros affected by magnectic fields? i can't remember, its being a while.So if they lost all instuments, at night, in weather, with no form of attitude reference, they could have flown at take-off-power to the ground.
I don't believe that the Captain was not overworked though, its a Bellview thing, if you ve not flown over 120 hours in a month, you ve not flown, and for a jet, thats a lot!

[Gunship]

The head of a team probing a crash which killed 117 people in Nigeria last month said on Thursday the aircraft's black boxes have not been found and may have been destroyed when the plane slammed into the ground.

Angus Ozoka, the head of Nigeria's accident investigation and prevention bureau, would not say how much longer the investigation into the October 22 Bellview Airlines crash could last.

There has been little indication of what could have caused the crash, although some aviation experts have said the plane may have been downed by lightning.

Full Report (http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/News/0,,2-11-1447_1840232,00.html)

[spacedaddy]

I've read a lot of crash investigations and been around for quite a while. I dont remember a crash of this kind where both the CVR and FDR were not found. I have heard of aircraft that temporarily or otherwise did not have one or both fitted. ??

[Gunship]

Has the CVR or FDR been found in the mean time ?