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Maddog Red

17th Nov 2005, 12:09

Baby to grow at CWL

Tiny airline just got bigger Nov 17 2005

South Wales Echo

BUDGET airline bmibaby today announced an expansion of its flights from Cardiff International Airport – and it will take on KLM on its flagship Amsterdam route.

Fares to the Dutch capital will start from £19.99 one-way, including taxes, with the first services taking off from March 26.

The airline is basing a third Boeing 737aircraft at Rhoose as it begins to extend its operations from South Wales.

bmibaby, which will operate around 150 flights a week from Cardiff, is also expanding its already popular routes to the Mediterranean. And it will also fly direct including Glasgow International Airport rather than to Prestwick, and returning flights to Belfast International.

A spokesman for bmibaby said that today’s announcement was the first phase of an expansion intended at Cardiff International.

The airline, which first launched low-cost flights from Cardiff in October 2002, has carried almost two million passengers to and from the region.

Ten routes for summer 2006 go on sale tomorrow. In addition, to the Glasgow and Amsterdam routes bmibaby will fly direct to Alicante, Belfast (International), Edinburgh, Faro, Jersey, Malaga, Palma and Prague.

David Bryon, bmibaby’s managing director, said: “I am delighted to be able to announce this latest phase of bmibaby’s growth in South Wales with the introduction of a third based-aircraft at Cardiff. We remain committed to growing our operation in the region to provide more services across Europe for both business and leisure travellers.

“The double daily service to Glasgow International will significantly improve business links between the two cities.”

bmibaby’s expansion is another boost for the airport following yesterday’s plans by Air Southwest – reported in later editions of yesterday’s Echo – that it was beginning services to the Cornish surfing capital of Newquay and Manchester from April 1.

The 19-year-old owner of AlphaOne Martin Halstead is also due at the airport today to discuss plans to set up a route between Cardiff and the Isle of Man from the new year. He has been dubbed “Baby Branson”.

pipertommy

17th Nov 2005, 15:18

Finally i can fly home(Glasgow) from my place of work rather than having to drive all the way to Bristol.Well done Baby!

jetstream7

17th Nov 2005, 16:21

Amongst the bmibaby hype and spin, note that there is no mention of flights to Cork and Paris CDG.

Two routes gone then...

As these were operated by Air Wales, and as bmibaby are making a song and dance about their routes to GLA and BFS, does this mean the link to Air wales is being severed?

If so, then whither Air Wales?

MerchantVenturer

17th Nov 2005, 17:01

I suspect these routes have not yet been released. I would be surprised if CDG or Cork were dropped.

easyJet release their routes in blocks and presumably baby does the same.

However, there must be a question mark about some of the Air Wales routes currently flown for baby from CWL. I can't imagine the PIK route will continue against GLA for example, unless Air Wales is switched to operate this route.

The newspaper article raises more questions than answers. For example it mentions "returning flights to Belfast International." baby already flies there from CWL albeit Air Wales operates the route for them.

Perhaps the newspaper report means that the baby 737 will do the BFS from March instead of 6G.

flower

17th Nov 2005, 18:56

The PIK route will go and i am not surprised. When flying back from EDI last week the lady sat beside me was from Glasgow and said they preferred to catch the EDI flight as PIK was too out of the way for them.
I can't imagine BMI giving up either Paris or Cork , who will fly them Air wales or BMI I don't know.

On top of all of this Zoom continue to fly throughout the Winter months adding additional flights as the demand has been so high, Air Transat who used to do this route never flew in the Winter months.

Now all we need are some additional destinations such as Budapest, Rome, Barcelona etc.

Greggs could get really busy ;)

Scottish Flyer

17th Nov 2005, 19:48

I must admit I am surprised at BMI Baby reinstating the Glasgow service. It was transferred to Prestwick in the first place as it had not been doing well and by using a lower cost airport it might salvage the route. Passenger figures fell further with the transfer and the use of an Air Wales ATR42 in place of the 737 seemed to be a last ditch attempt. It was noticeable that fares increased substantially when Air Wales took over the operation further reducing the passenger figures. As the Edinburgh flight continued as a BMI Baby 737 operation its lower fares inevitably drew some of the potential Prestwick passengers.
I was a regular user of this service (both to Glasgow & Prestwick) for about a year (it transferred to Prestwick in the middle of that period) and not once were there more than 70 passengers on the 737. I cannot see returning the flights to Glasgow will be successful. There simply are not enough passengers to support a twice daily 737 flight. Edinburgh is a far more popular destination and the flights from Cardiff have performed reasonably well.

pipertommy

18th Nov 2005, 11:00

This is when the marketing of routes has to be stepped up a gear,Cardiff`s is cr*p.A new head of marketing has been appointed recently so this may help.I`ve flown on easy-Gla flights alot where you hear alot of Welsh in the crowds.So if you have the right price and make it known they will come(i went to Bristol 1hour+ drive +parking+bridge+petrol and the only two reasons that went there were GLA Intl and it all worked out cheaper)to CWL:O

flower

18th Nov 2005, 16:18

Article in tonights South Wales Echo

A major upgrading of facilities at Cardiff International Airport is on the way to help meet a huge increase in passengers.

Jon Horne, managing director of the airport said the plans were being finalised with a master plan- which will go out to consultation- aimed at taking the airport through to 2030, due to be published in the next few months.

" We have some very exciting plans which even in the short term are pretty significant with the aim of taking the airport forward and improving the quality of the service" explained Mr Horne.

The airport has been encouraged by the success of the bus link from Rhoose Railway station which was used by 3600 passengers in its first 3 months of operation.

BMIbaby's managing director David Bryon said he was confident it could drive demand for its services with low fares

PhilM

18th Nov 2005, 23:18

Was chatting to the bloke in the Four Cross Service Station in St Athan, and he was saying theres apparently a new catering company moving into Cardiff, alongside Alpha.

Anyone know any more about this? Is there the demand? I did hear a rumour a while back that baby were going to be using a new caterer?

caaardiff

21st Nov 2005, 15:23

and he was saying theres apparently a new catering company moving into Cardiff, alongside Alpha.

Rumour has it ICS are going into catering. And hasnt something gone on with Alpha's contracts throughout the country with BY?

TwinAisle

22nd Nov 2005, 08:32

it will take on KLM on its flagship Amsterdam route

I do love idiot journalists...

Either they mean that CWLAMS is the flagship route - as the only route they operate out of CWL, that would be a little dramatic - or they mean that AMSCWL is KLM's flagship route..... Hmmmm...

This will be one to watch. KLM is driven by interline traffic, and it will be interesting to see what effect baby have. Prediction? This one will do well for baby, and in the main will be new traffic, not traffic taken from KLM.

So the "take on" bit is manure as well!

TA

caaardiff

23rd Nov 2005, 20:41

Bring on Greggs!

Heard more rumours Ryanair will be pulling out of CWL by Apr due to disagreements with the airport.
6G must have grins from ear to ear. But will baby take the route off them? Saying that Ryanair just upgraded the 738 so if they do go theres plenty of business for 6g and ww!

KLM and baby doing AMS could be interesting. Offers to completely different markets.

Domestic pier should be coming down soon too. Next year will be interesting finding a place to park!
Maybe NCP will stick their nose in and rinse the airlines. :D They get everywhere else.
And aside from giving every passenger a hi-viz jacket for the apron, another few buses would go down well to stands not near the piers :ok:

Thomsons now apparently using 763 762 & 75 for summer (All airbridge contenders! - will it be 1st come 1st served or will based aircraft get priority? Dont forget Onur, freebird - if they are used by Goldtrail next yr, and Zoom.)

Next year is going to be v interesting. Especially for the passengers! Its going to get overcrowded and chaotic in places with so many flights going at same time.
Slightest wiff of a delay and departures is crammed.
Few flights coming in at same time and baggage is manic, especially if a belt breaks down and isnt fixed for over 2 wks!!!!

:ouch:

Shame most of this is rumours though. Be nice to hear some facts
:sad:
Sorry for the essay, am a new member and just catching up on the goss :p

Morrihell

24th Nov 2005, 00:01

Saying that Ryanair just upgraded the 738 so if they do go theres plenty of business for 6g and ww!

Caaadiff, I think you'll find that Ryanair are using 738s instead of 732s due to the lack of 732s in the fleet rather than any pick up in traffic. The few remaining 732s have a date with the scrapman very soon.

MH.

GrahamK

24th Nov 2005, 08:03

According to this (http://web.ana-aviation.com/BY_schedule.nsf/Arriving%20Schedule!OpenPage&Start=1&Count=1000&Expand=2.27) CWL will see a 733, 752 and 763
Seems the Cancun flights go via Dublin, some Puerto Plata flights via Belfast and the Sanford flights nonstop. 763 in CWL on Tuesdays to Thursdays

flower

24th Nov 2005, 08:42

Strong rumours from good scources around about even more new routes to be announced.

The pier coming down allows for more stands to help alleviate the parking problems, they will be nose in stands properly defined as opposed to the open parking currently available on Stand 1.

jetstream7

24th Nov 2005, 08:43

Heard more rumours Ryanair will be pulling out of CWL by Apr due to disagreements with the airport.

Out of curiosity, what disagreements would those be then?

Surely Ryanair wouldn't deal with the airport direct, so what's their relationship with TBI / Abertis like?

Are there similar issues at LTN/NYO?

caaardiff

24th Nov 2005, 22:11

As i said, most of it is rumours and was seeing if anyone had anymore info.

GrahamK - V informative site. Are there anymore like that around for other airlines?
However, on comparison, some of the info doesnt match the timetable on the Thomson website....but saying that thomson.co.uk's timetable doesnt match the thomsonfly.com timetable!!

pipertommy

25th Nov 2005, 08:00

What a lovely sight this morning at cwl snow all around!Good start to the winter,rwy due to open at 0930 ISH.

CWL_Chris

25th Nov 2005, 09:14

I don't think that all of those delayed passengers will be very happy with the snowfall around CWL..

Regards,
Chris

pipertommy

25th Nov 2005, 10:46

Probably not!But we`re working our ass off clearing the rwy(in on a break)Ryanair landed but had no parking for it,same for a Baby. fun and games here as usual:O

caaardiff

25th Nov 2005, 13:04

Just checking the website. How come everything is stilll so delayed? Or is it just the backlog? Must've been bad down there, havent had it too bad by me

Woooooo christmas is coming:ok: :ok:

flower

25th Nov 2005, 14:19

Indeed everyone worked v hard today to get the airport back in service, finally opening at 1030 this morning. Then of course it was the deicing of aircraft which with snow accumulations took a very long time.
Looked very pretty from the tower but glad we don't have to put up with this too often.

alterego

26th Nov 2005, 11:23

Reported at 0615 for a 0700 departure and finally got off at 11.20!

It turned a nice 2 sector day into along one but I think everyone at the Airport did their best and our Pax seemed remarkably patient at both ends!

Quite a distinct line going from the Centre of Cardiff North. Anything to the East was clear of snow and to the West was white!

No_Speed_Restriction

26th Nov 2005, 12:47

How bout concentrating on clearing the E1 taxi turnoff from 12/30 and cleaning up Stand 1.

pipertommy

26th Nov 2005, 18:34

Simply the airport has only two plough`s manned by the on watch AFS which gets tricky during movements(have to be able to provide fire cover).The apron were unable to clear the stands do to lack of man power.The AFS ended up doing what we could later on in the day.The runway and main taxiways i guess are more important than charlie,delta and echo turn offs.But if you feel like lending a hand on echo next time just bringing your high viz and i`ll provide a shovel?Only joking.:O

No_Speed_Restriction

27th Nov 2005, 06:49

so basically what you are saying is that cardiff airport is not equipped, both by manpower and machinery, to deal with the eventuality of snow. So in the event of snow/blizzard, would the airport fire category drop whilst snow is being cleared? Would aircraft have to hold or divert whilst clearing is taking place?

Yak97

27th Nov 2005, 08:50

I presume that they work on the basis that if the airport is closed by snow, there will not be any aircraft landing or taking off so the firemen are effectively "spare".

Once the snow is cleared, aircraft operations can re-start, and the firemen go back to being firemen?

flower

27th Nov 2005, 10:29

The airfield was closed so the RRF category didn't apply, as soon as the airfield was handed back to me over the RT one of the calls given was the RRF category which was our normal Winter one of 7.

The fire and operations team worked like Trojans to get the airfield open on Friday. They never stopped. They were also never stroppy or awkward at any time when constantly asked by myself and colleagues how long things would take what they were doing etc..

Cardiff gets hit by snow once in a Blue Moon, the snow we received on Thursday/Friday night was not forecast. When the weather warnings came in the night before they certainly did not prepare us for what happened.

Regarding the clearing of alternative runway exit points, the procedure is clear A1 and B1 . They then work on the apron area.

as a light hearted aside.
Piper Tommy are you one of the Fireman in the Charity Calendar of Cardiff Firefighters on sale at the Airport ;)

alterego

27th Nov 2005, 10:41

No Speed.......

E1 is only any good for turboprops or half empty jets if your using 30, A1 & B1 are much more use for a fairly full jet. Especially in wet (possbliy slippery)conditions.

Glad we got 30m cleared width!

pipertommy

27th Nov 2005, 17:21

Sadly not,had my name down but the shoot happened when i was sunning it in Greece. Maybe next time.:)

CWL_Chris

28th Nov 2005, 20:36

Looks like Air Wales are going into Air Southwest territory by operating NQY-ORK. The route is in their booking system.

Regards,
Chris

No_Speed_Restriction

28th Nov 2005, 21:51

you must be using the alternative website which is probably taking bookings for Basra to Lapland and the weekly Baghdad to Tel Aviv service.

Devonair

28th Nov 2005, 23:09

Looking at Air Wales low fare finder I also notice that they are showing PLH - LBA & MAN. Nothing bookable yet. I'm still not sure what an earth they are doing with PLH, launching possible new routes and moving the ORK service to EXT. If these new routes materialise it's yet more incursion into WOW airports, maybe as a result of WOW moving into CWL....

CWL_Chris

30th Nov 2005, 15:56

Looks like Air Wales are going to launch..

CWL-BHD.. flights from March 1st
NQY-ORK

Is this in co-ordination with BMIbaby ending the CWL-BFS agreement with Air Wales?

Regards,
Chris

ALLMCC

30th Nov 2005, 16:23

Bit of deja vu as far as CWL - BHD is concerned - Air Wales did operate this one up until a couple of years back - the codeshare with WW to BFS put paid to it - BHD could do OK if the frequencies are right.

WATABENCH

1st Dec 2005, 12:13

Sounds as if a code share between the 2 could be in the pipeline to me.

caaardiff

3rd Dec 2005, 16:04

Judging by the amount of delays 6g have had this past month they need to sort their current fleet to cope with the route they are already serving before they go adding other routes!

flower

3rd Dec 2005, 16:25

Judging by the amount of delays 6g have had this past month they need to sort their current fleet to cope with the route they are already serving before they go adding other routes!

Delays caused by adverse weather and affecting every airline operating into and out of Cardiff

No_Speed_Restriction

4th Dec 2005, 07:07

doesnt help having poor service from alpha catering.

CWL_Chris

4th Dec 2005, 13:00

With Air Southwest starting routes from CWL, do you think that if all goes well for them that they may make CWL some sort of hub?

Air Southwest seem to be much better at marketing their routes and filling their aircraft at a fraction of the cost, compared to Air Wales.

What's everyone elses thoughts on the Air Southwest vs Air Wales issue?

No_Speed_Restriction

4th Dec 2005, 17:13

chris, you seem to be knowledgeable. can you please tell me, as a comparison, what air wales and air southwest's advertising campaign consists of?

jetstream7

4th Dec 2005, 21:26

What's everyone elses thoughts on the Air Southwest vs Air Wales issue?

There isn't an 'issue'. Two airlines, competing in the same market sector, but not competing head to head. Simple as that. Worth remembering that Air Wales had been down in the Southwest for some time so why the fuss when Air Southwest arrive in CWL?

Air Southwest seem to be much better at... ...filling their aircraft at a fraction of the cost, compared to Air Wales.

What do you base this assertion on. Got any facts?

CWL_Chris

4th Dec 2005, 22:02

chris, you seem to be knowledgeable. can you please tell me, as a comparison, what air wales and air southwest's advertising campaign consists of?

I visited Cornwell in the summer and noticed a lot of advertising on billboards as well as on local radio and public transport. The only time that I have seen Air Wales advertisements, was in the Western Mail and a few signs inside Cardiff Airport.

There isn't an 'issue'. Two airlines, competing in the same market sector, but not competing head to head. Simple as that. Worth remembering that Air Wales had been down in the Southwest for some time so why the fuss when Air Southwest arrive in CWL?

At the moment, the two airlines serve different routes. However, naturally, if Air Southwest were to do well at CWL on the MAN & NQY routes, there would be a good chance they would expand, correct?

Routes that Air Southwest may look at opening could be, DUB (served by 6G and FR), JER (Operated by 6G/WW) and possibly a few others that are not currently served, e.g. LGW.

What do you base this assertion on. Got any facts?

Well, I just did a rough price comparison with Air Wales and Air Southwest. I compared the CWL-DUB route, served by Air Wales and the BRS -DUB route served by Air Southwest. I did a search for one individual flying from the UK on the 3rd of February 2006 and returning on the 6th of February 2006. I took similar timed arrivals and departures to make sure that the result was accurate.

The Results

Air Wales

6G221
3 February 2006
Cardiff-Dublin
Depart:- 11:15
Arrive:- 12:15

6G222
6 February 2006
Dublin - Cardiff
Depart:- 16:15
Arrive:- 17:15

Cardiff to Dublin
1 Adult(s)
@ £ 59.00

Dublin to Cardiff
1 Adult(s)
@ £ 39.00

Total (incl taxes): £ 98.00

Air Southwest

Outbound flight per adult/child
Fare:- GBP 15.00
Taxes & Airport charges:- GBP 14.00

Total:- GBP 29.00

Return flight per adult/child
Fare:- GBP 20.00
Taxes & Airport charges:- GBP 9.00

Total:- GBP 29.00

Total for 1 passenger:- GBP 58.00

That proves that Air Southwest are much cheaper than Air Wales on a similar route. As for facts on better advertising, see above reply.

Regards,
Chris

jetstream7

5th Dec 2005, 09:13

At the moment, the two airlines serve different routes. However, naturally, if Air Southwest were to do well at CWL on the MAN & NQY routes, there would be a good chance they would expand, correct?
It's possible. What could happen doesn't make it 'an issue' though.

I just did a rough price comparison with Air Wales and Air Southwest. I compared the CWL-DUB route, served by Air Wales and the BRS -DUB route served by Air Southwest

That proves that Air Southwest are much cheaper than Air Wales on a similar route

Aha.... I see costs to the passenger.

I'd hoped that you were going to give some insight into operating costs - that would have been interesting and given some real detail into the relative strengths of the businesses.

By the way, if you want a cheap flight to DUB from CWL or BRS in early February, then Ryanair is the best option... no suprise there then... ;)

MerchantVenturer

5th Dec 2005, 12:46

Chris

Your Dublin example is probably not a very practical one. The BRS-DUB with WOW is via NQY and is a continuation of the flight that arrives from LBA mid morning. I doubt that many people use it (apart perhaps from the odd aviation enthusiast) because, as has been pointed out, there are up to four daily non-stop departures from BRS with Ryanair and Aer Lingus using jet equipment.

The WOW timetable indicates that BRS-DUB route will cease next April with the new timetable and route network.

As to WOW expanding flights from CWL, who knows what plans they have?

WOW appears to be a go-ahead and successful airline that is growing at a reasonable pace. It is not unrealistic to think this growth will continue. Apart from DUB, WOW only serves UK destinations at present so might be thinking of taking in mainland Europe at some point.

There are so many imponderables though, here are a few to be going on with:

1. WOW has a growing base at NQY but the future of that airport is uncertain.

2. Sutton Harbour Holdings plc (the owners of both Air Southwest and Plymouth City Airport) have a WOW base at their PLH airport but it is severely limited in terms of operating space and also suffers greatly from the weather.

3. WOW is to base an a/c at BRS from next April. If the BA review results in a much smaller BACX route network, or none at all at BRS (I say if, of course I have no knowledge but I merely throw it in as an imponderable even if it is an unlikely scenario), there would be a lot of routes out of Lulsgate that WOW (or others) might well find attractive.

4. Will Air Wales or anyone else set up routes out of CWL that WOW might be considering?

As one outside the industry but who has nevertheless taken an amateur's interest in it for many years, I would say that WOW expansion at CWL is of course possible (most things in life are) but whether it is likely is down to so many variables.

Obviously a good pax take-up on the new WOW routes from/to CWL would go a long way to persuading the airline that they ought to look seriously at the airport in the future.

Incidentally, Air Wales has broken the 'traditional' mould of Welsh airlines (not all scheduled operators it has to be said) operating via both CWL and BRS, which goes back to the days of Cambrian, through Airways International Cymru to Inter European Airways. So perhaps WOW is attempting to repay the compliment. :)

It is good though to see the likes of 6g, WOW and Flybe based in the southwest segment of Britain and apparently flourishing.

caaardiff

5th Dec 2005, 20:19

Air Wales should do Cardiff - Isle of man - Edinburgh route.
There seems to be a market there that no-one currently wants to fill anytime soon! :p :ok:

No_Speed_Restriction

5th Dec 2005, 20:47

ask most people and they could suggest many money making routes.....but I'm afraid it's not that straight forward.

pipertommy

5th Dec 2005, 20:55

Thought London city would have been a good route for Air Wales? or was the pax loading poor?

MerchantVenturer

5th Dec 2005, 21:04

tommy

CAA stats indicate the average loads were not very good but of course modest loads don't always indicate poor yields - look at Eastern's business model for instance.

The route was gradually wound down though so it suggests that perhaps Cardiff, like Bristol and Birmingham, is just too near London to make an air route viable.

pipertommy

5th Dec 2005, 21:09

Very true! MerchantVenturer.Hope they make some positive moves now with loss of work they had with baby!:)

pipertommy

6th Dec 2005, 05:36

By the way what is eastern`s set up?

MerchantVenturer

6th Dec 2005, 12:29

Eastern tends to operate routes that attract the business passenger with usually much higher fares than so-called low cost airlines.

For example they operate out of BRS flying to ABZ, IOM and MME using J 41 (29-seat) and J 31 (19-seat) equipment.

They have been operating the ABZ route for over a year using J 41s and CAA stats show that average monthly loads on this route are rarely much above 60%, sometimes less, yet they have recently added a third weekday rotation which suggests that they are making money on it.

Even the new easyJet BRS route to nearby INV (started in July) which in terms of loads is doing very well doesn't appear to have affected Eastern's loads to ABZ. They seem to know what they are good at, identify appropriate routes and carry on.

If they can make the three-times a day BRS-MME work, in competition with easy's BRS-NCL which is is phenominally successful in terms of pax numbers, they will prove again that they know what they are about.

I have used BRS as an example but you can find other routes across the UK where Eastern seem to have found a niche, sometimes against competing operators.

TwinAisle

6th Dec 2005, 14:55

NSR said...

ask most people and they could suggest many money making routes.....but I'm afraid it's not that straight forward.

It is, you know. You should try it in places that need ASAs, route licenses and traffic rights issues in place...

Also, as an aside, the perverse economics of this industry mean that airlines should fly more if they are not making money, not less....

No_Speed_Restriction

6th Dec 2005, 15:37

twin aisle, you can try and prove to "someone" that 1 + 1 = 2 but if they wont budge on it being anything other than 3 then there is nothing you can do.

catch my drift?

Turn It Off

6th Dec 2005, 23:48

There has been no notable weather throughout the last week, and the delays continue on the Air Wales flights I think maybe the Air Wales fleet is feeling the effect of stretching the aircraft to the limit?

Thats only my humble of course which when listening to many equates to the square root of F*** all!

TwinAisle

7th Dec 2005, 00:18

Ah, sorry NSR.... penny has just dropped, caught your drift!

NBD strikes again..... Rabbit knows that nickname!

TA

michaelknight

8th Dec 2005, 15:24

8th December 2005, Aer Arann, Ireland’s premier regional airline, today announced that it will begin operating two new services from Cardiff to Dublin and Belfast City from 27th March 2006. The airline will operate two flights per day on each route with a 50 seater ATR42 aircraft. Fares and schedules that will suit both business and leisure passengers are currently being finalised and will be announced mid December.

With annual passenger numbers in excess of 1 million, Aer Arann currently operates 26 routes across Ireland, the UK and France with a fleet of 12 ATR 50 and 66 seater aircraft.

Commenting on the announcement Micheal O’Callarain, Marketing Manager Aer Arann said “Our commercial team is continually looking for opportunities for expansion and as such we are delighted to be announcing these two new services from Cardiff today. This year Cardiff is celebrating its centenary as a city and its 50th year as Wales' capital. It is a thriving and vibrant city and we believe that there is considerable untapped demand both on the Dublin and Belfast routes and look forward to developing both services in the New Year.”

caaardiff

8th Dec 2005, 15:30

Where did you find this? Havent heard anything around the airport.
With Ryanair and Air Wales already operation, Dublin is becoming very popular!

FlyingV

8th Dec 2005, 15:46

It's on the RTE news website but not on the Arann website yet it seems.

http://www.rte.ie/business/2005/1208/aerarann.html

spanishflea

8th Dec 2005, 15:50

Not sure if they've got confused, as Air Wales have CWL-BHD in their booking engine as starting in March.

FlyingV

8th Dec 2005, 16:06

They have a quote from Micheal O'Callarain the marketing manager at Arann. I hope he's not confused about which airline he's marketing :p

Cyrano

8th Dec 2005, 16:21

So let's get this straight.

On the same day:
Aer Arann announces CWL-DUB and CWL-BHD;
A story on ATI says that bmibaby have "slimmed down" their cooperation with Air Wales and will be flying CWL-BFS and CWL-GLA in their own right, while Air Wales (according to an Air Wales spokeswoman) will start CWL-BHD and CWL-PIK

Why is RE going up against Ryanair on Dublin? Could it be that Ryanair's deal with CWL is coming to an end and they're threatening to pull out?

And is there really going to be enough demand for four ATRs a day to Belfast City and a 737 to International? :confused:

840

8th Dec 2005, 17:04

The press release is there on their website, so I guess it's not a mistake.

At least, not a factual error. It remains to be seen if it's a business mistake.

CWL_Chris

10th Dec 2005, 23:09

Just wondering if anybody knew what this aircraft is doing at CWL?

EZE855P Liverpool 08:15

Regards,
Chris

dwlpl

11th Dec 2005, 22:47

Believe it was positioning to Liverpool to pick up the Liverpool team and take them to Heathrow.

There they transferred to a Tokyo bound flight for the World Club Championships in Japan.

bycrewlgw

12th Dec 2005, 17:07

Any more news about BA re-establishing their CWL base? Heard a rumour (think I read it on here actually) that they were considering opening a Dash-8 base. Not heard anything since! Also a few other names floating around as new start ups to be based in CWL never heard of them though! They are Dragonair Cymru and International Welsh Airways. Anyone have any info on them?

BYCREWLGW

caaardiff

12th Dec 2005, 17:39

Have heard a little talk of it. Maybe with the way CWL seems to be attracting new routes they are re-considering their withdrawal.
Havent heard of the other 2 airlines, and nothing on google about either (aside from Dragonair - in China!)
Great news about Aer Arann.
Anymore new airlines and Cardiff will burst!
Bout time to kick some BRS ass. They have had the luck over recent years, now Cardiff is taking off (Excuse pun)

Turn It Off

12th Dec 2005, 20:48

Could Dragonair be Dragon Fly Air Charter, who already are based at Cardiff?

Have heard a BA rumour but cant remember where. In fact, I thought I had imagined it until I read here!

Fernando_Covas

12th Dec 2005, 21:40

International Welsh Airways

Anything to do with the long and gone Airways Cymru International I wonder?

No_Speed_Restriction

13th Dec 2005, 05:51

With all the news of all these airlines competing against each other by flying out of cardiff one would expect there to be some losers and winners.

Now's the time to get the old finger out and get cracking!

jetstream7

13th Dec 2005, 08:34

Well CWL-BRU is back, thanks to a Welsh Assembly route development fund grant...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4522982.stm

Almost like a real airport now.... ;)

flower

13th Dec 2005, 08:35

I see Brussels is back, lets hope some advertising and decent fares make it a goer this time.

Still nothing about Aer Arran on the airports website, as they were so keen to tell us about the other new routes and airlines you have to wonder why this hasn't appeared.

No_Speed_Restriction

13th Dec 2005, 11:33

jetstream, who will fly the BRU route?

CWL_Chris

13th Dec 2005, 11:50

I believe that Air Wales will operate the CWL-BRU route 2xdaily.

The Dragon Fly Air rumor (mentioned beofe) they are a private charter airline I believe, flying out of CWL.

If this Route Development Scheme is going to benefit other routes, what routes are we likely to see appear?

I personally believe these destinations could come about from CWL;

Germany:- MUC, FRA or STR
France:- NCE
Spain:- BCN, MAD
Portugal:- LIS
Italy:- FCO/MXP

The article also mentions a route to Valley. Would Air Wales operate that? Is it viable?

Regards,
Chris

MerchantVenturer

13th Dec 2005, 12:06

Chris

Undoubtedly more routes will follow. With £4 million of state aid apparently available it would be a very poor airport management that couldn't find a way to make use of it.

Whether it is right to use taxpayers' money to operate routes that would not otherwise be viable, such as CWL-BRU, is a debatable point.

CWL is very fortunate to be in this position and would be very foolish not to take advantage. Other airports are not so lucky and have to attract routes on a strictly commercial basis.

Having said that I doubt that any of the operators of those airports would refuse state aid if it was offered.

As for the Valley route (the so-called pan-Wales service) there has been much debate in the past year about the effectiveness of such a route, even with RDF money subsidising it.

No_Speed_Restriction

13th Dec 2005, 14:07

chris, how will this differ from past 6g routes to bru with very low pax figures?

bycrewlgw

13th Dec 2005, 15:15

I do believe that the CWL-BRU-CWL route could be successful should the price be right. I was quoted 300 quid for a one way flight to BRU last time 6G had the route and that was many months in advance. I ended up going from BRS where the fare was less than half price. BA held that route for years so can't see why it shouldn't be successful again.

BYCREWLGW

No_Speed_Restriction

13th Dec 2005, 18:13

how many people were on your last flight with 6g to bru?

bycrewlgw

13th Dec 2005, 18:31

Not sure didn't end up going with them!

BYCREWLGW

flower

13th Dec 2005, 18:46

With no facts and figures to hand to back up anything I say, I believe when British Regional did the route they had very few Pax, however the yields were good.

It is now a very different airport from when British Regional were operating, the airport needs to do a sustained marketing campaign selling the airport and what it has to offer.
I am sure Brussels can be sold, but with many people in Cardiff itself still unaware of who flies out of the Airport and where you can fly to they need to do one heck of a sales job.

No_Speed_Restriction

13th Dec 2005, 19:15

flower, do you know of a good second-hand dead horse salesman?

pipertommy

13th Dec 2005, 19:17

Hit the nail on the head i think Flower!!!!!!!!This is when the airport will have to so what its made of, either that or bluff its way like usual.:ooh:

Stone Cold

13th Dec 2005, 20:37

BRU will not work! 6G been there done that it fell flat on it's face the last time it was done and then it was with the backing of the asssembly, highest load I ever took out of there was about 9 people, it's the same with BHD at the moment 6G is going round like headless chickens, re-launching routes that have been tried and failed look at Liverpool 2nd time round and it's failed again, all because the magic thing of marketing is NEVER DONE so nobody knows about it and this time you have Aer Arann doing the same route and probably similar times and they will market it heavily and leave 6G the scraps that are left as well as Baby doing Aldergrove who killed 6G off BHD first time round.

It's a shame that the staff who know what they are doing can't run 6G, why? because the chairman refuses to listen to anybody who knows how to run airlines!

I love 6G I have a lot of great memories there made some really good friends but I fear for the worst for my friends and former collegues, the airline is being attacked heavily by the competition with baby slowly starting to take routes away from them and Aer Arann starting 2 of Air Wales's routes and the stupid plan to move everything from PLH to Flybe country in Exeter what is he thinking? If by miracle you make Exeter work don't think it will go unnoticed by Flybe who I'm sure would launch the same route and what's with NCL? Used to be a very good businessman's route but since it's been attached to ABZ the businessmen in NCL can no longer do a day's business in Cardiff because it doesn't arrive in CWL until mid afternoon, so they all now use the big orange machine at BRS, I know I asked a pax who was going to Cardiff why he didn't use Air Wales, he said he used to until they changed the times and unless his company is willing to put him up in a hotel for the night it has to be easyJet from now on because it arrives in the morning.

Air Wales don't mess with your best route with the waste of time that is ABZ and sort out your reliability your delays have been appalling of late.

It's a shame I always stick up for 6G but it's so frustrating watching it go wrong at the moment with silly decisions, the company has so much potential I just wish the chairman would take a back seat and let the people who know what they are doing get on with their jobs without interfering.

No_Speed_Restriction

14th Dec 2005, 06:04

stone cold for prez!!!

whats up mofo!:ok:

TwinAisle

14th Dec 2005, 08:59

I don't really know what to say to Stone Cold's post except "hear hear"....

I'm editing this post again.... I fear that I was taken in for what passes as "journalism" in the UK. A good friend has sent me a few titbits of info regarding what the BBC call "government support" (which would be unlawful) - what 6G seem to have managed with the help of the WAG is both lawful and creative. For which I am happy to salute them both.

BRU from CWL CAN work. it is NOT a low cost route, which is why baby have steered clear of it (cf BRUEMA). It doesn't need huge loads, but it does need good yield - which is quite possible. BACX used to do it with their high cost base, so with a bit of a push, AW should do fine. More power to their elbows.

TA

Richard Taylor

14th Dec 2005, 09:04

Don't know why 6G thought there was demand for a CWL-ABZ route.

Unless it's oil-related up here, then a non-core domestic route t/f ABZ will always struggle I feel (unless it becomes TRULY low-cost, or unless *Eastern operate it ).

If I remember BACX used to route CDG-CWL-BFS-ABZ & back when they operated it, albeit with the 145. The other sectors would perhaps justified a jungle jet back then.

* I was being somewhat ironic, although I don't know...
:rolleyes:

Stone Cold

14th Dec 2005, 12:17

Boss Hogg £400,000 in six months is a damn fine better than the 9 million it lost in its previous financial year!

It was loosing £400,000 every month until Twin Aisle joined which for your information was only a 6 month contract as a consultant but unfortunatly as always the chairman gets involved and takes apart all the work that Twin Ailse and every other consultant who has come along since!

The chairman is a nice guy but knows sod all about aviation fact!!!

Well look at that the minute I post my reply to Boss Hogg his post is deleted.

No_Speed_Restriction

14th Dec 2005, 14:30

stone cold, I salute thee for taking the time to try and "right" all that is "wrong".

as they say "suicide may be a hobby but I wouldnt want to do it for a living"

look forward to chattin' to ya in the upper airways soon.

Stone Cold

15th Dec 2005, 14:23

Twin Ailse check your pms.

NSR I'll wave when you pass me in the climb when I'm in the scarebus whislt I struggle to gain altitude with it's 2 hairdryers screaming at full power!

No_Speed_Restriction

15th Dec 2005, 15:22

hairdryers? i thought they were electric toothbrush motors? then again, still havent quite finished flying the rubber band machine.

nclairportfan

15th Dec 2005, 17:19

Stonecold,

I fully agree with your comments. Being one of the businessmen that has in the past flown NCL-CWL and return in a day. The timings of such flights are very important, and to be fair even when it was daily I would have preferred the NCL-CWL segment of the flight to be earlier to allow me to be in Cardiff Centre by 10 and leave around 3pm or 330pm for a departure at around 430-530. This is how other airlines such as Eastern can sustain their services by playing to the business pax.

WOW seems to be getting better and I think if 6G dont improve timings on the NCL-CWL then WOW will at some point jump on the route and kick them off.

pipertommy

21st Dec 2005, 05:42

So thats the domestic pier down! Did`nt take long at all!! airside view looks different,alot smaller.Funny the 30 yr plan is working towards building a new one through stages/years:)

flower

21st Dec 2005, 08:13

I must admit to being hooked on my breaks to watching the massive machines dismantle the pier.
From the VCR it looks bigger, you can easily see now where they will fit all these new stands.

CWL_Chris

21st Dec 2005, 11:48

Sent an e-mail to Air Wales customer service yesterday over the CWL-BRU route.

This is what I sent;

Dear Sir/Madame,

After visiting the Air Wales website, I saw the advert for the newly
advertised CWL-BRU route. I am interested in flying the route on a
regular basis, however I would like to know what the planned frequency
is for the route and also when the route is due to commence. Any
information would be helpful.

Regards,
Christopher Miles

^^^My dad visits BRU on business a lot, however he tends to use the SN service from BRS or fly CWL-AMS with KL and then catch the train to BRU.

The Reply..

Thank you for your recent email.

The schedules are currently being entered into the system, and will be
available to book from tomorrow morning. Thank you for your patience.

The route will commence on the 2nd February, and will operate twice
daily Monday to Friday, and once on Sundays. Please check the website
tomorrow; alternativel, an Air Wales agent will be happy to assist on
0870 777 3131.

Kind regards

Customer Relations

Regards...

CWL_Chris

No_Speed_Restriction

21st Dec 2005, 12:36

better book it quick before all seats sell out :E

stolport

21st Dec 2005, 17:41

Looking at the Air Wales website, the booking section now shows:

Cardiff-Paris Beauvais
Manchester-Rennes
Waterford-Rennes
Rennes-Jersey, Cardiff and Manchester
Plymouth-Manchester

Is this another mistake or are flights planned?

No_Speed_Restriction

21st Dec 2005, 21:55

dont ask me, I only fly for them.

yours sincerely,

Captain Mushroom.

emphasis on the word "mushroom":confused:

pipertommy

21st Dec 2005, 22:11

So where is the Land of milk and honey sounds nice!!!!!!!!!!Love to visit it!!:)

WOWBOY

21st Dec 2005, 23:21

CARDIFF to PARIS BEAUVAIS is bookable from April 2006, daily flights, from £71!!

Boss_Hogg

22nd Dec 2005, 00:42

was £19.99 one way when I looked 2 minutes ago :hmm:

Boss ;)

pipertommy

22nd Dec 2005, 05:38

Whats happend to paris CDG ?

aeulad

22nd Dec 2005, 09:35

Ryanair to increase Dublin flights to 10 per week.

Regards

Mike

MerchantVenturer

22nd Dec 2005, 10:06

tommy,

CWL-CDG will continue in Summer 06 by bmibaby, although 6G will operate the route still on behalf of baby.

aeulad,

The extra FR rotation will be on Wednesdays giving double daily on M, W and F (currently double daily M and F).

CWL_Chris

22nd Dec 2005, 14:36

As for the Air Wales announcement, all I can say is interesing. The CWL-BVA route does seem to be quite cheap, as does the CWL-BRU route. All at £19.99 each way, I don't know if they are going to have the same price for each sector on all routes? Would be a good idea in my opinion (even if it was slightly more at say £24.99 eahc way) - that is as long as they were making a profit on the route.

So, BMIbaby will be offering CWL-CDG 2x daily [oddly operated by Air Wales] and then Air Wales will run it's own CWL-BVA flights to Paris. That mean's approximatley 160 seats a day between Cardiff and Paris. I guess it could work as long as the route is marketed, as could BRU.

Good news concerning FR increasing frequency at CWL. Interesting news, seeing as CWL Management and FR had fallen out.

Any news on Alpha One Operating CWL-IOM? That could be a potential route for 6G or EUROMANX to operate.

Regards,
Chris

GROUNDHOG

22nd Dec 2005, 16:41

This is about Cardiff.....

Regular traveller to Brussels, resident in Cornwall and daughter in Brussels, in the last three weeks have flown LHR/BRU and daughter BRS/BRU ( LHR was totally full on BMI and BRS almost empty on SN by the way).

From Falmouth to Bristol is over 3 hours drive, Heathrow is 4.5 but the fares from there are much cheaper so it is often worth the extra drive even with the additional fuel and parking charges.

WOW will soon fly NQY/CWL which means we could now fly to CWL and then get 6G to BRU if the times tie up and save a lot of driving - but it is all about the fares, flying WOW to LGW and connecting is just too expensive for example!

I have personal reasons more than most to want Air Wales to succeed in whatever they do so lets hope they have thought long and hard about how to cost the flight and exactly what market they are aiming at.

SN tend to be more expensive from BRS so a good low cost might just kill them off as from what I have seen SN loads are not that good...... or is it because the market is just not there, time will tell?

WOWBOY

22nd Dec 2005, 17:15

Paris Beavais doesn't appear anymore!!! That wierd!!!

Has a official anonncement been made?

MerchantVenturer

22nd Dec 2005, 18:48

SN tend to be more expensive from BRS so a good low cost might just kill them off as from what I have seen SN loads are not that good...... or is it because the market is just not there, time will tell?
Groundhog,

I know your knowledge of the aviation industry is far greater than mine but your point about the BRU market interests me.

CAA stats show that in October this year around 134,000 pax travelled to/from BRU from the UK on scheduled services with 60% (81,000) travelling from the London airports (mainly LHR).

The provincial airports for that month show at MAN 15583, BHX 12712, BRS 5862, NCL 5032, EMA 3533, EDI 3109, LBA 2594, GLA 2563 and SOU at 1496.

This does not suggest that BRU is a massively strong route and will doubtless require good marketing from Air Wales if it is to succeed.

BRS's 5862 is fairly typical of its monthly loads on the BRU route over the past two or three years (it was 6117 in September for example) and it was the third busiest provincial route to/from BRU in October. Its typical monthly loads work out at about 50% average load factor on the SN RJ 85 but, as you pointed out, fares are quite high so presumably SN Brussels considers the route worthwhile.

Whilst I hope that Air Wales succeeeds (on this route and on its others) I hope that it would not mean the end of the BRS-BRU route, especially as this route does not have the benefit of public subsidy in the form of RDF money that the CWL-BRU will enjoy.

GROUNDHOG

23rd Dec 2005, 17:17

Merchant Venturer..

Interesting numbers, will send you a pm!

CWL_Chris

29th Dec 2005, 11:11

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200wales/tm_objectid=16528349%26method=full%26siteid=50082%26headline =cross%2dborder%2dtrains%2dplan%2dto%2dlink%2dairport-name_page.html

Basically, it is looking as if there will be an hourly service from Portsmouth to Rhoose that will stop at places such as Bath, Bristol and Newport.

Regards,
Chris

MerchantVenturer

29th Dec 2005, 13:21

It looks as though an extension of these routes from Cardiff Central Station to Rhoose Halt (which serves CWL via a bus link) is being discussed, but First Great Western would require funding presumably on the grounds that such an extension would not be commercially viable on its own.

The jury is still out on the worth of the station serving CWL. Certainly the number of trains currently serving it does not make the £17 million of public money that was needed to re-open the Vale of Glamorgan railway line a sensible use of tax payers' contributions, although the Assembly will argue that the line also enhances the economy as a whole in the area it traverses.

Having committed itself to such an enormous amount of public money to re-open the line that serves the airport, the Assembly is desperate for its outlay to see tangible rewards in the form of a significant number of CWL pax using it. It has already demonstrated its willingness to assist CWL by the provision of a generous RDF. The Assembly may well have to find more cash if it is to persuade FGW to serve Rhoose Halt via its new franchise.

Whilst a greatly enhanced rail service to Rhoose Halt might have a positive effect on increasing pax travelling to CWL by rail from South East Wales and possibly the Gloucester area, I have my doubts whether it will in itself encourage many pax from the English side of the estuary generally. New destinations from CWL no doubt would, especially if they were not served by other airports in the South West or even beyond.

A passenger wishing to travel to Spain from say, Trowbridge, who wishes to use public transport all the way can already take a train to Bristol Temple Meads and catch the BRS Flyer coach that leaves the top of the station approach (right outside the main exit) every 20 minutes from very early to very late, and is to be enhanced in frequency vide the airport's expansion documents.

Would they be tempted to remain on the train and travel another hour to Rhoose Halt (and still need a short bus connection to CWL)? Probably depends on the rail fare to Rhoose compared to the rail/Flyer fare to BRS to some extent.

To make its rail connection really worthwhile CWL would surely have to provide the sort of 'exclusive' flights I mentioned earlier, but when they do (such as this year with Florida and Toronto) people from the West Country use CWL anyway because they have no other choice if they want to use a reasonably accessible local airport; either that or the airport should provide more competitive fares relative to competing airports and/or other inducements (which the RDF, even indirectly, might make possible).

CWL will only have itself to blame if it does not make best use of the public money that the Assembly seems prepared to give it, from whatever budget head.

DanielP

29th Dec 2005, 14:52

Hi..

I live at Rhoose and am a regular commuter on the Rhoose / Cardiff International Airport - Cardiff route.

If CWL takes off as a regional hub again and Arran and Soutwest are successful, I could see that the current rail link will also be successful. At present, with Air Wales changing their routes every few months and BMI baby pretty much marking time, the train will only produce a dribble of passengers. it needs to build regular patrons. At present, Arriva Trains Wales are running a regular clockface train service to an airport that doesn't really warrant it.

The Vale of Glamorgan railway is primarily a commuter / community line, whatever is said about the subsidy: trains are (to put it politely) basic, often horribly crowded and have poor luggage facilities- they are also slow and stop everywhere- Cardiff to Rhoose takes around half an hour (which is still faster than bus in the rush hour). A decent service could easily achieve this in twenty minutes, however.

As for long haul, I can't imagine going in by train unless there was a direct service, so lets hope that there is truth in the rumour of this new service!

It's all very interesting though and things could come together very well in theory.

PS...the link to IC Wales didn't work for me! edit...found it!

CWL_Chris

29th Dec 2005, 16:53

Here's the link..

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200wales/

For some reason, it won't link directly, so the link above open's up to the news page. The article on the new train services is a quick scroll down the page!

CWL_Chris

2nd Jan 2006, 11:20

So, does anyone have any more news on developments at CWL?

Any rumors?

BTW, Happy New Year, Cardiff Thread - Welcome to 2006!

Regards,
Chris

pipertommy

6th Jan 2006, 20:21

Happy new year to you all!What has happened to electra/146?Not been here the last couple of nights.

caaardiff

7th Jan 2006, 00:45

If the Electra is the freighter then its off untill next week i think. Nice long xmas break! :rolleyes:

pipertommy

7th Jan 2006, 11:33

Alright for some.Suppose there hours are`nt the best.Not that i`d mind!!!:)

flower

13th Jan 2006, 17:28

Vale of Glamorgan have just approved more car parking for the airport but only as a short term measure, according to the local press the Airport has been told they have to investigate multistory car parking instead of encroaching on more land.
As I understand it the new summer only car park will be at the end of taxiway E where we were originally told Signature was relocating to, wonder where they will now relocate them ?

pipertommy

13th Jan 2006, 18:31

Hi Flower,had a presentation on the future development for the airport the other day in work day and we were told that about seven hundred and fifty parking places would be created at end of echo like you said,the rest of the rumours were confirmed like the the walk way to stand one from departures ect.It was a good presentation!Other stuff like the plan to extend bravo taxiway to parallel the length of rwy12,to do away with back tracking from bravo 1.Or view to large a/c maintenance south side,on the fire ground area.I wont mention names but if you want,pm me and i`ll give you name of the person who gave the chat i`m sure he would do it for air traffic as it is for various groups/companies.OH thanks for the service the other day,a few of us have been doing our twin rating,playing out to the west of minehead:)

JaffaCake

13th Jan 2006, 21:58

Pipertommy - Any chance you might be able to enlighten those of us who also work out of Cardiff and obviously aren't sufficiently privileged to be privy to such information? :hmm:

Gary Lager

14th Jan 2006, 08:38

Extend B to the THR 12? How many delays are actually caused by backtracking aircraft? EDI managed for years with a backtrack for full length - their traffic was a lot higher than CWL.

Instead of that pointless disruption to the tarmac, how about:
1) taxy lights on the taxyway into the cul-de-sac onto stands 9-13 ( a serious problem at night, in rainy conditions, with the new floodlights on i.e. all the time)
2) Cat 3 lighting on the runway
3) separate customs channel for aircrew
4) free doughnuts for air traffic controllers

...and the rest ;)

alterego

14th Jan 2006, 09:37

What would save time would be holding at B1 when cat1 ops in progress. That would mean outbound A/C could fit into any gaps on the occasion when 2 A/C are on approach (sensibly spaced).

Does anyone know if they'll be any more presentations on the SIDs & STARs? I missed the last one due to work.

pipertommy

14th Jan 2006, 15:33

Well Ryanair was spoke about x4 a/c into cwl, but as you may guess they want to operate free of charge i understand talks are still going on.Emirates to Dubai (can`t remember the spelling) is still on the cards,when, your guess is as good as the rest.But Germany seems to be the big one,apparently this is a big market waiting to be brought into play!Even a route to Boston was talked about.And Bristol is ment to be is a bit of trouble with development plans with local groups trying to block future plans:E All of this has came up due to airports having to submit plans linked in with the goverments White Paper.So its long term plans.

WOWBOY

14th Jan 2006, 16:21

Well Ryanair was spoke about x4 a/c into cwl, but as you may guess they want to operate free of charge i understand talks are still going on.Emirates to Dubai (can`t remember the spelling) is still on the cards,when, your guess is as good as the rest.But Germany seems to be the big one,apparently this is a big market waiting to be brought into play!Even a route to Boston was talked about.And Bristol is ment to be is a bit of trouble with development plans with local groups trying to block future plans All of this has came up due to airports having to submit plans linked in with the goverments White Paper.So its long term plans.

Ryanair want to operate out of CWL free of charge :O
If that was agreed on it would not go down well with other airlines!

flower

14th Jan 2006, 16:55

I must admit we coalface workers in ATC haven't had any briefing either, our managers may have done so but they are usually pretty good at letting us know about future airport developments, at the moment however ATC has so much going on with both Tower and Approach rooms being refurbished and the new airspace and procedures coming in that it may have been overlooked.

Why can't we hold you at B1 during Cat 1 operations ? well because you would be right in front of the Glide path aerial that is why, I wonder if the hold could be positioned slightly further back from where it is i.e. just before the corner, it would certainly benefit us in ATC for that to happen.
A decent Runway extension would be great, let's add another 200 to 300 metres think what long haul routes we could do then :D
If they intend extending the taxiway up to the end of Rwy12 then I hope they keep the current B taxiway to where it is as well for greater flexibility most especially for aircraft vacating on RWY 30.

I'm not sure we can do Cat 3 ops on 30 but maybe we can do Cat 2, I think the terrain has something to do with it. The lighting would need to be improved to enable Cat 2 ops plus a mid point Transmissometer. Taxiway lighting really needs to be looked at and money spent, we can set up only one route at a time on the lighting panel at night and in LVPs, also the inability to be able to use Taxiway E at night limits operations.

Personally I would like to see the South side of the Airfield developed, it is the ideal place for the GA Apron.
The Flying Club is a great location used by many of us for Lunch on a regular Basis, Air Wales is based over there as is DragonFly. I would have thought a GA Apron and hangarage for GA aircraft would be a money spinner over there, it would also leave the North side free to continue to expand.

I had heard about Ryanair and it's ongoing negotiations with the Airport, I am also aware of the German angle.

I am concerned that the current terminal is not large enough already to cope with the passengers going through. On US and Canada Days you can barely move.

Just as an aside apparently the train has been so successful that it has taken many of the passengers off the bus route apparently.

PS there will be another talk for airline crews on the new airspace announced imminently, the one for GA is on the 28th February 1930hrs at Cardiff Academy of Aviation.

TwinAisle

14th Jan 2006, 17:30

Ryanair want to operate out of CWL free of charge
If that was agreed on it would not go down well with other airlines!

Tough on the other airlines then. Ryanair and the airport are both private organisations and can negotiate whatever they like between them. I would bet now that the airlines at Cardiff pay differing amounts for airport services depending on the ability of their negotiating staff. That's life.

Re EK to DXB. Wouldn't count on this for a few years now. EK got pipped to DUB by both GF (to BAH) and EI (to DXB), and I would bet they were looking at CWL as a slipstop en route. They have other expansion plans...

Boss_Hogg

14th Jan 2006, 18:03

I was of course referring to that guardian of our fiscal system the 'Financial Times' .......is there something else about you that may be construed as being pink?

Boss ;)

DanielP

14th Jan 2006, 19:54

Happy New Year!

It's nice to here that there are so many actual / under discussion developments at CWL at present. Would be interesting having EK stopping by. It's already quicker for me to get to Glasgow than to work in Central Cardiff....I could commute to Dubai.......

Article is here:

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200wales/tm_objectid=16576940%26method=full%26siteid=50082-name_page.html

I suspect that Cardiff bus' comments are politically motivated and the journalist seems to have half confused the commuter bus (X90) with the direct X91 airport service (as was probably the intention). The X91is designed so that only airport passengers can really use it, as it runs non-stop between Cardiff and the airport. The X90 often doesn't call in at the airport so that only commuters can use it: until about a year ago, the same single service served both. I have never seen the X91 well patronised (though I may have been looking at the wrong time)- perhaps someone could put me straight on this. I often used it by walking from Rhoose and I was usualy the only passenger.

So, issues relating to general transport provision in the Vale and specific links to the airport are being confused (as they always are):

The train fares have been made very cheap to encourage commuters and airport passengers to use the railway: now various parties have noticed and are begining to kick up stink (this will be the real reason why CardiffBus is annoyed).

The X90 commuter service is loosing general patronage to the trains because the train is cheaper and a more pleasant (all things are relative!!) option.

The X91 airport express never really took off since they seperated it from the commuter service, becasue there are not enough passengers at present to make it viable (though may well be in the future).

In reality, I don't think that the train is stealing many airport passengers: for a start, it takes longer (about 35 mins + bus to airport 5-10mins vs 29mins total for the bus). I have also been collecting usage statistics (to support requests for Vale transport improvements) from the train on the service I catch and noted three people transfer from this train to the bus in total last week! I appreciate that they could be using the train at other times, however.

Thought this view may be of interest.

Daniel

flower

14th Jan 2006, 20:11

.
Re EK to DXB. Wouldn't count on this for a few years now.
I would suggest only those actively involved in negotiations would have a clue as to who is or isn't negotiating with CIAL regarding new routes and ventures. The Airport does not dismiss the rumours and continues to brief on them. What may have been the situation 3, 6 or even 9 months ago is now very out of date information, only those with direct involvement actually know the situation.
As some of us well know gossips are notoriously inaccurate :hmm:

pipertommy

14th Jan 2006, 21:10

Anyone heard about "Miskin parkway" at jct 34/m4.New train station/intercity link! could be feeding the airport in the future(by bus again)any railway buff`s on here?

flower

14th Jan 2006, 21:22

No Haven't heard that, but as I said I'm a little in the dark at the moment.
Let us hope good things are coming our way Piper Tommy, with the third radar suite being installed we can handle it :ok:

Of course the most appropriate link road to the airport is Via J 34 , straight road all the way down, ideal

caaardiff

14th Jan 2006, 21:37

If only.... that would be perfect :ok: for traffic from East and West. But we all know what the Vale is like for moving forward! Plus alot of farm land around those areas, not to mention the Vale hotel and golf course :sad: It does seriously need to be looked at, as Culverhouse cross can be a nightmare, even a seperate link road before culver, linking the A48 then down to an improved 5 mile lane could work.
There was talk of the intercity trains starting services down the vale. But from past experience of when they divert the trains that way, they can only usually creep along in places :ugh:

PPRuNe Pop

14th Jan 2006, 22:04

It is noted that some sniping is manifesting itself. Please desist. We take a dim view of that and will remove the snipers for a few days of 'rest' if it doesn't stop.

I can see no reason to close the thread because it is important to a lot of people as evidenced by some useful comments. Sour - or innuendo/comments are out - or so will be the sourers! Be nice peoples.

DanielP

14th Jan 2006, 22:25

Part of the recently awarded Greater Western franchise involved costing the extension of the Brighton - Portsmouth - Southampton - Bristol - Cardiff railway service to Rhoose station. But only cost, not actually run it :(

That's a regional service, not Inter City, anyway and is probably as good as things will get (if it happens, that is) unless something changes.

Haven't heard of Miskin Parkway, though it has quite a ring to it......they will need to do something incredible with the road infrastructure, would it not be just as slow as the links from Cardiff?

Daniel

Gary Lager

15th Jan 2006, 10:26

flower - Cat 3 ops really aren't dependent (much) on preceding terrain: with a DH of 50' all the exciting stuff takes place beyond the threshold. Cat 2 does require a certain terrain profile in the undershoot, since the Radalt DH of ~100' is still over the grass. Example (ISTR) MAN 06L where Cat 3 OK but Cat 2 N/A due a trench on short finals. Anyway, won't happen in my lifetime, so I'll just keep investing in shares in the Severn Bridge Company.

CWL_Chris

18th Jan 2006, 20:31

A passenger jet carrying 46 passengers and four crew has made an emergency landing at Cardiff after developing a problem with one of its engines.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4626296.stm

It was a British Airways, ERJ-145 operating the BRS-CDG route, however diverted to CWL.

There have been quite a few problems at BA lately. A few weeks ago, a 747 flying LHR-JFK diverted to CWL.

Regards,
Chris

MerchantVenturer

18th Jan 2006, 21:17

In the linked BBC report the BA spokesperson is quoted,

They were just about to start their descent just outside of London when the pilot reported a loud bang and the starboard engine closed down.

He declared an emergency and spoke to air traffic control who advised him the nearest divert airport was Cardiff.

Why would the aircraft have not gone into BRS, its base and destination, and also an airport that it must have almost flown over to get to CWL on its journey down from the London area?

Nice to see a load factor of 92% though on a Wednesday evening in January.

Stone Cold II

18th Jan 2006, 21:27

Only reason I can see for it to bypass BRS and go to CWL is that CWL has the BA maintance hanger and it would be quicker to get the aircraft back on-line due to the facilities at CWL will be greater than what BA have at BRS.

MerchantVenturer

18th Jan 2006, 21:32

Thank you. That's what I thought might be the case.

Anyway, the important thing is that it landed safely. Well done to all involved.

flower

19th Jan 2006, 05:07

Weather was a bit marginal at times yesterday as well at Bristol, that may have had an impact on the decision making.

tallaonehotel

19th Jan 2006, 10:52

Just to let you know, BRS would have been better for BACX as they have a hangar available 24 hrs a day. I would agree with Flower that the weather had a lot to do with the decision to divert to CWL. Runway length might have had a bearing on it to with an aircraft that doesn't have reverse thrust.

As for BAMC, they will probably charge us for using their facility!!!

WOWBOY

24th Jan 2006, 21:49

Does anyone know if WOW's CWL-MAN & NQY route doing well in terms of bookings?

CWL_Chris

24th Jan 2006, 21:56

There has finally been an officical press release on the new Air Wales routes, on the Cardiff Airport website.

There is also a mention in the news section that they are expanding the private lounge at the airport. The expansion is a result of an increase in business passenger use of the facility.

Regards,
Chris

PhilM

24th Jan 2006, 23:45

Anyone fancy sorting the drains at CWL? As anyone who regularly walks from the baggage area, down the back of International Pier will know, they are absolutely disgusting, enough to be putting me off my dinner :yuk: :eek:

Need sorting, been minging for a long time now, always put it down to Aviance's hunny carts they used to park there, but they have been gone for ages, and it seems it was infact the drains, can't be nice for the passengers getting off the KLM at Stand8 and walking through to the walkways, nor for the staff at CWL! :hmm:

teifiboy

9th Feb 2006, 23:45

seems a rather unusual destination bearing in mind recent events

caaardiff

10th Feb 2006, 16:21

seems a rather unusual destination bearing in mind recent events
No Cardiff isnt getting upmarket!
:p
Was a P&O cruise flight

discretion

11th Feb 2006, 22:05

New airline commencing shortly ex CWL,operating B737-300 x 2,watch out in Flight International for further info!!(from reliable source)

CWL_Chris

12th Feb 2006, 12:11

New airline commencing shortly ex CWL,operating B737-300 x 2,watch out in Flight International for further info!!(from reliable source)

Any news on what sort of carrier it is? Are they UK based? Any idea on the routes being launched?

Regards,
Chris

MerchantVenturer

12th Feb 2006, 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by discretion, 2305 11 Feb 06, in 'Air Wales cutting flights' thread.

New airline commencing shortly ex CWL,operating B737-300 x 2,watch out in Flight International for further info!!(from reliable source).

Is this the same airline you posted about in November 2004 that was supposed to be commencing operations last year?

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=152551

rsutt1

12th Feb 2006, 16:32

Majority of the experienced staff from aviance and servisair have left or are leaving to take positions as cabin crew with BY and WW. I would love to know whats going to happen. It's going to be a nightmare for those guys. New starters with no one to turn to for assistance when the boarding card printer gets stuck, a passenger asks a difficult question, computer problems, etc etc. Aviance and servisair don't even begin to source airside passes for staff untill they have actually started, Delaying the ability of getting staff airside when they are required which results in all experienced staff living airside for the duration of their shift meeting/boarding flights etc. No-one in the check-in hall helping the new guys. I think it will be a big factor for at least the first 3 months of the summer. Any one have any views on this? This has been happening for the last few years but perhaps un-noticed as they scale of the operation was alot smaller.

DanielP

14th Feb 2006, 06:27

Hi!

Thought you might be interested to know that the draught Dec 2006 Greater Western railway timetable between Cardiff and Portsmouth actually features the extension to Rhoose/CWL! Looks like they are planning an hourly fast train stopping at Barry Town only, with a 25min journey time from Cardiff. The rolling stock is likely to be a three car class 158 airconditioned regional unit with decent lugage space.

Very good news indeed! There seems to be a reasonable chance that this might actually happen if they have bothered to draft schedule it.

(timetable is on the First Great Western website.....follow links to draught timetable).

Daniel

rsutt1

14th Feb 2006, 12:49

Good news on the train service!
Now air wales pax can get a train down south when the planes stop going south.
;)

Brgds

danjones

14th Feb 2006, 19:29

I heard today that XL has cancelled flights to the US from cardiff.

caaardiff

14th Feb 2006, 21:38

Even though they are all the same company, I think its just because its Air Atlanta's usual 747, which will probably just be marketed under Travel City Direct.

WATABENCH

15th Feb 2006, 12:20

I understand that FCA are putting Skyservice into CWL this summer, added to the fact that they remove the based 320 in the winter to send it to EXT and the fact that FCA are not doing any rugby flights this year when they used to do a high percentage of them from CWL, have they fallen out with CWL or has CWL management got their noses so far up BY's bum they dont want to worry about FCA and the potential loss of a full summer programme in a few years the way things are going?
We all know how strong FCA are in BRS with 2 321s changeing to 2 poss 3 757s come summer 07, but surely FCA would have been a great contender for long haul from CWL as BRS runway cant handle it, and would of been a winner with pax due to new cabins etc on their 767s
Any views?

WindSheer

15th Feb 2006, 12:34

I heared that Cardiff management bet the FCA contract on a poker game, went 'all in' and lost. The guy concerned also lost his house, his bird and his Lambretta!!

FCA will be buzzing now at BRS thanks to that....that is of course until the green cloth comes back out!:hmm:

MerchantVenturer

15th Feb 2006, 12:47

WATABENCH

As I think you know I have never been in the aviation or travel business, but it is a poor management in any field that turns its head against money-making opportunities because of a clash of personalities with the company it might trade with. If I was a shareholder in a company that I believed was doing this I would be asking questions.

Whether the proposed financial arrangements between CWL and FCA are not what one or both of the parties would wish is another thing, but that is only conjecture. I don't know enough about the inner workings of the airline/tour operator/airports world to be able to hazard a meaningful guess.

It could equally be asked whether TUI is turning its head against BRS given its significant expansion across the Severn.

Perhaps both groups recognise an overlapping market in South Wales/West Country and have decided to push for their part of it in the way they think works best for them.

danjones

15th Feb 2006, 13:42

XL was running a 767 every friday may-october for swansea tour operator Travel City Direct

No_Speed_Restriction

15th Feb 2006, 15:07

wasn't it a 747?

danjones

15th Feb 2006, 15:19

The Air Atlanta 747-300 runs out on a Monday and the Excel 767 was running out on a Friday

caaardiff

15th Feb 2006, 16:41

The only Sanford flights this year are Excel/TCD 747 on a Monday, Monarch(A330) and Thomson(767) on a Thursday

caaardiff

15th Feb 2006, 16:47

It would be nice to see both First Choice and MyTravel expand again at Cardiff. Thomson seems to be getting there first, especially holding the majority of Winter business.

WindSheer

16th Feb 2006, 13:35

XL was running a 767 every friday may-october for swansea tour operator Travel City Direct

Having worked at CWL all last summer they obviously parked this a/c somewhere that I couldnt see it!!
The only longhaul out of CWL last year was a Monarch A330, the Travel City 747 and the zoom 767 to Toronto. No excel!!

danjones

17th Feb 2006, 18:17

Sorry if my post was a bit misleading. Excel was going to run to Orlando Sanford from this year (May to October)

PhilM

27th Feb 2006, 00:31

Anyone shed anylight on this?

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=212955

Fernando_Covas

27th Feb 2006, 09:17

So apart from TUI, are the airport managment actually looking for more business or have they got a one track mind (a la BMIbaby) at the moment?

teifiboy

27th Feb 2006, 13:35

busy busy busy at CWL today

NEW-CREW

27th Feb 2006, 16:40

Why are there so many flights from Dublin and Shannon today? Anything to do with the rugby?

Fernando_Covas

27th Feb 2006, 17:32

:confused: Why are there so many flights from Dublin and Shannon today? Anything to do with the rugby?

No not at all. It's just one of those busy monday mornings. :ok:

WOWBOY

1st Mar 2006, 17:34

Cardiff-Loreint is showing up on Aer Aranns website:

starting 15th May 2006

Timetable:

Lorient - cardiff
Depart Arrive Frequency Flight No.
1520 1640 - - W - - - - RE 734
0850 1010 - - - - - S - RE 734

Cardiff - lorient
Depart Arrive Frequency Flight No.
1710 1830 - - W - - - - RE 735
1040 1200 - - - - - S - RE 735

Aloon

1st Mar 2006, 17:56

Just had a look at Aer Arrans' website.....

Why is it only Lorient shows up booking from Cardiff when Dublin and Belfast are supposed to start on 27th of March????

Did they drop them already??

Nothing in the news page on their site.....

Any ideas???

Turn It Off

1st Mar 2006, 21:44

Maybe Aer arran will only do one day from dublin and one from Belfast,

e.g. :
Dublin - Cardiff - Lorient - Cardiff - Dublin on one day
Belfast - Cardiff - Lorient - Cardiff - Dublin on the other

When did Air Wales drop Paris Beauvais and decide to start Cardiff - Rennes? Was this in response to Aer Arran or as a result?

Turn It Off

2nd Mar 2006, 12:59

Still no mention of the DUB and BHD routes. Guess they were nothing more than rumour mongering. Maybe it was a marketing ploy to get the Aer Arran name banded around the airport?

flower

2nd Mar 2006, 14:58

It will be interesting to see if they do now try to muscle in on other routes.

You may well be right TIO regarding the original routes bandied about by Aer Arran as the Airport company made no mention of them on their website but this route shows up straight away.

BTW TIO see you made the local rag last night :p

Turn It Off

2nd Mar 2006, 19:00

I did?

I only called them in the afternoon!!! Can you save me a copy please Flower?

Was it the Echo?

flower

2nd Mar 2006, 20:15

Yes was the Echo, just a tiny piece but I will save it for you.
No mugshots which is a shame ;)

caaardiff

4th Mar 2006, 08:31

http://business.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=299&id=105332006
Other likely destinations include Boston, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, San Francisco, the Caribbean and South Africa. They will be served from a selection of UK airports, including Newcastle, Manchester and Cardiff, as well as Edinburgh and Glasgow.

Flyglobespan in Cardiff? Anyone got any info on this? Looks quite promising as CWL are aiming for more Long Haul :ok:

flower

4th Mar 2006, 08:48

I'm desperately out of touch with events at the airport at the moment. You have to wonder why Cardiff was mentioned in a Scottish newspaper unless it is a serious contender.
If things are going the way they appear on the surface to be going I don't think the new stands we are creating will be enough, the terminal size definitely isn't large enough for the expected number of passengers this year,Especially on US days.

I thought CIAL was supposed to be making a very big announcement about the Airport and it's growth around now.

caaardiff

4th Mar 2006, 09:01

The masterplan is apparently being published in the next week or so.
Seen the airport magazine that shows the expansion plans, as you say, doesnt seem to be many more stands, i can already count 13 based aircraft ( 3 x Bmibaby, 2 x Thomson, 1 x MyTravel, 1 x Excel, 1 x KLM, 3 or 4 Air wales 1 x First choice, 1 x TNT) Not to mention the part week Thomson 763, and constant arrivals from Air Southwest, Spanair, Onur, Futura etc etc!
By the looks of it the airport have expanded to accomodate these, but they will need to look at further expansion if anymore airlines choose to fly into CWL in the future.
We'll soon see when the expansion plans are published
Also I totally agree about the terminal and US days, the slightest sign of a delay the passengers will be crammed in!

DanielP

6th Mar 2006, 12:05

Just an update on CWL transport links.....

There suddenly seems to be more people using the train service + link bus now we are out of the winter doldrums.
Cardiff Bus are withdrawing the express bus service (X91) that links the Cardiff Hotels, Central Cardiff and then goes non-stop to the airport (it's going from late March). This is due to lack of patronage. The commuter service (X90) that goes out to the Vale is being renumbered X91 and all services will be directed into the airport: any airport passengers will have to slum it with the hoi poloi! This is back to how the situation was several years ago, except with decent new buses with special lugage facilities.
The train is now the quickest way to CWL by public transport!

Daniel

GBALU53

9th Mar 2006, 11:34

:* Any news update on the wossible take over of Air wales??:*

If so what will the effects be??:bored: :bored:

No_Speed_Restriction

9th Mar 2006, 11:41

On another thread it was mentioned that an Eastern takeover is imminant.

JaffaCake

9th Mar 2006, 21:53

Eastern?? Does that mean we end up being called Western then? :confused:

IF it happened wonder if they'd keep three separate fleets or get rid of the least clapped out ones... tough choice

bycrewlgw

16th Mar 2006, 12:32

Hey guys, anyone have any information on the masterplan for CWL such as when its going to be published and where I'll be able to find it?

Cheers,

BYCREWLGW

flower

16th Mar 2006, 16:45

I'm waiting to see that as well bycrewlgw

An article in the local newspaper this evening shows that passenger figures over the winter period have increased 13% with a substantial rise on that expected over the summer period.

PhilM

28th Mar 2006, 14:50

The terminal arrangements look good in the future (2030), I'd have thought the 2015 arrangement would be needed sooner rather than later though.

Anyone know when the current works and new stands will be put in where Domestic Pier was? I can see it getting very tight for space this summer!

bycrewlgw

28th Mar 2006, 15:17

Thanks for that Aloon! Some very interesting reading there. I agree with you PhilM the terminal layout looks quite impressive for future years! Lets hope some new airlines will come in to use the new facilities! Mentioned in the plan is a need for a low cost carrier who will base 3 aircraft in CWL to make use of the facilities who will bring in around 2 million passengers per annum. Do they mean BMIBaby or have they got their sights on someone else? Or maybe they're just saying they would like a low cost operator there ? Answers on a postcard please! Forgive my ignorance, not really sure about the Cargo side of things, but is there a need for a 'cargo terminal'? Or is it just going to replace the offices and warehouses which are close the the arrivals hall? Also how much of a difference (and no i don't mean feet or metres or any other measurement lol) will the runway extention make? Is it purely a sort of safety net for aircraft or will it allow new jets to land and depart?

Cheers guys!

BYCREWLGW

MerchantVenturer

28th Mar 2006, 17:08

I read the main points with interest too.

To reach the predicted 5 million annual pax by 2015 means that over the next nine years CWL will grow at almost exactly the same rate in pax terms as BRS, in that CWL expects to go from the current just under 2 million to 5 million and BRS expects to go from the current 5¼ million to between 8 and 9 million by 2015.

If both these things occur there are going top be a lot of extra opportunities for travellers in the area around the Severn estuary. Can only be good news for us punters.

Golf Charlie Charlie

28th Mar 2006, 17:16

If both these things occur there are going top be a lot of extra opportunities for travellers in the area around the Severn estuary. Can only be good news for us punters.

On the other hand, there's only so much demand that can be squeezed out of a given market, given the relentless rise in fuel and other costs. I just don't see the level of demand for flights from UK regional airports continuing to grow at the same rate in the next 5 years as in the last 5. There is consolidation, to use a euphemism, ahead.

MerchantVenturer

28th Mar 2006, 17:43

GCC
You may well be right but who, five years ago, would have forecast the rapid growth we have seen in the past half decade?

I did preface my final paragraph with the word 'if' and the comment from the CWL managing director also pointed out that, "Such Master Plans are based upon policy-making, rather than firm development proposals, since they make fixed assumptions. However, they form a substantial opportunity for dialogue and we embraced this opportunity with enthusiasm."

Even if the airports in the south west corner of Britain don't reach the predicted pax figures it is still likely that new opportunities will arise for pax in that area.

I never travel from the London airports any more. I always go from a local airport even if I have to transit via somewhere like AMS to go further afield.

Having taken my son to LHR at the weekend I see no reason to change this habit.

flyerboy

28th Mar 2006, 18:47

Just tried to book CWL-CDG on bmibaby website and unable to book flights so it looks like 6G have left all Paris pax in the lurch. Seems strange that the lighter routes have been covered but one of their high density routes has not

flower

29th Mar 2006, 13:21

A big news article in the local rag today about the paper continuing the theme of growth at the airport.
It talks of the routes the airport is trying to attract, with the Middle East still very high on the agenda , with Scandinavia, Germany, particularly Frankfurt Düsseldorf and Munich as well as scheduled services to Italy.
In the news article it quotes David Bryon MD of BMI Baby state that they were considering the 4th aircraft for next year and further ones in subsequent years.

Lets just hope the airport can put together a team to really sell itself to potential operators.

Turn It Off

29th Mar 2006, 13:46

Please be Munich in time for the beer festival ...................

WOWBOY

31st Mar 2006, 15:27

Aer Arann have lauched the timetable for the CWL-ORK service:

Cork - Cardiff
Depart Arrive Frequency Flight No.
0830 0940 M T W T F - RE 421
1020 1130 - - - - - - S RE 421

Cardiff - Cork
Depart Arrive Frequency Flight No.
1010 1125 M T W T F - RE 422
1200 1315 - - - - - - S RE 422

Bookable Now!!!

TwinAisle

31st Mar 2006, 16:12

Just to rain on a small parade here.... the chances of baby operating many routes to either Germany or Scandinavia is pretty low, I'm afraid....

Remember who owns bmi.

bmi mainline has a few destinations in Denmark, and one in Germany, but that's for codeshare reasons. Since baby doesn't codeshare, you'll see why WW to MUC didn't last long when the cent dropped in Frankfurt.

flower

31st Mar 2006, 18:48

The article made no mention of whom they hoped would be doing routes to Germany and Scandinavia, it is known that other airlines have been in talks with the airport other than BMI regarding those routes.

Fernando_Covas

3rd Apr 2006, 08:42

One of my conctact informed me that Air Berlin have rhoose in their sights....

Rachman

7th Apr 2006, 03:41

I'm very disappointed at the 'Masterplan'. Its not really a plan at all, just a 'Wouldn't it be nice if...' type of scenario speculation. It doesn't mean they are actually going to do anything worthwhile.

I had hoped that somebody would have the guts to 'Do a Bristol' and start from scratch with a brand new terminal and apron designed with the future in mind, rather than more of the same measly piecemeal add-ons.

Lets face it, CWL has well and truly missed the boat -BRS has seen to that-and will never be more than it is now, a second-rate, hick little regional aerodrome.

AND I LOVE IT! Which is why it so hard for me to see its potential being squandered. It needed desperate action yesterday, not in 15 or 30 years time.

Look at the link road plans - they've been sat on these since I started here 30 years ago! Things move too slowly in this little backwater.

And here's a thing - what do people think the life-expectancy is of BA retaining their maintenance facility here? With the necessary alterations, what a superb ready-made terminal and apron area that could be!

Anyway, I'm unemployed now, so might have to leave this lil' ole' place for a while - but I'll be back!!! :{

R

taffman

7th Apr 2006, 08:52

I tend to agree with you Rachman. Rhoose lost it years ago when the new terminal was built. Those stupid stairs are beyond me, up, down, up down, when will we get to the arrivals area. Any poor sole arriving must instantly think that it is a joke place, which it is. Car park in a hole in the ground, another joke.:ugh:

As you say, a new terminal is badly needed with some decent facilities, not dark corridors, and dismal departures area that never really sees the light of day. The plan is a fantasy work; drummed up to make it look like there is some thing happening. Pull it down, send every one to Bristol, cannot be many left who don’t already go now. Wake up every one, its never going to happen. Like the north south air link, fantasy stuff, sorry for the pun, head in the clouds. Why is it needed, time for some real life thinking.

Bring back Cambrian and the Viscounts, happy days. :ok:

flower

7th Apr 2006, 10:11

Taffman I have absolutely no desire to travel from Bristol Ta, not exactly the best example to give us of a good terminal. From where I live it is as quick to get to Birmingham and not much further to travel to Heathrow than to get to Bristol Lulsgate.

I to would have preferred to have seen a new terminal, I am not sure how they honestly think they can accommodate the expected increase in passengers unless they reopen the 3rd floor to passengers. Last year at times the current terminal was packed.

Rachman, sorry to hear you are now unemployed, I think so many of us work at the Airport long for it to be successful, it really is such a super place to live why would anyone want to move away from Cardiff.

taffman

7th Apr 2006, 10:42

I used Bristol as it is where a lot of Welsh people go from. My home is deepest West Wales and Cardiff offers me nothing and by the Time I have driven all the way up from the tip of West Wales, the other bit from Cardiff to Lulsgate is nothing. The bit from Cardiff to Rhoose is a nightmare, ten thousand roundabouts. Remember when they put them all in to slow traffic down on the top road from Barry to Cardiff, it worked big time. :{

MerchantVenturer

7th Apr 2006, 10:47

Taffman I have absolutely no desire to travel from Bristol Ta, not exactly the best example to give us of a good terminal. From where I live it is as quick to get to Birmingham and not much further to travel to Heathrow than to get to Bristol Lulsgate.

flower,

You make an interesting point, one that is undoubtedly true in reverse as well, and may explain the relative dearth of airlines, routes and pax out of CWL in recent years.

The MD of CWL has stated again, this time in connection with the publication of the master plan, that he needs not only to stem the flow of Welsh pax travelling from other airports, but also to attract more pax from the West Country to CWL.

People living in Greater Bristol have other alternatives to their local airport if, for whatever reason, they cannot or don't want to fly from it. Those in the north of Bristol and beyond are probably closer to BHX than you are, and those to the south of Bristol can reach EXT more easily than they can reach CWL.

LHR is even closer to Bristol residents than it is to you (I am taking the liberty of assuming you live in the CWL area).

Therefore, if CWL is to attract those Bristol area residents who don't fly from BRS it will have to put on something special, and from my perhaps naive viewpoint outside the industry it appears this can only be in two forms; services that don't operate out of BRS or a competitive financial inducement.

I live within fifteen minutes of BRS but would not hesitate to use CWL if circumstances made this a better option.

BTW what's wrong BRS and its 'new' terminal, apart from its already being too small at times?

flower

7th Apr 2006, 12:44

MerchantVenturer,

The biggest problem with Bristol for me is simply getting there, it is not the easiest and that comes from someone who has to go to work at Cardiff !!
What i dislike most about the terminal at Bristol is the fact everyone has to be bussed, I found the whole experience at times confusing and I'm comfortable at airports. When flights were due for boarding I found it to be chaotic.
We all have our comfort zones, I suppose i prefer being able to walk to the aircraft.

Cardiff has a long way to go in terms of selling the airport for flights if they wish to catch up with Bristol, just wish we could snatch the bristol Marketing team away from them :ooh:

Regarding the arrivals at Cardiff for Taffman, in the last year I have only had to walk up a very slightly inclined ramp to baggage reclaim, I haven't had to encounter multiple flights of stairs, I have had to encounter multiple flights of stairs at other airports though such as Edinburgh so it isn't just Cardiff who may have had problems.

taffman

7th Apr 2006, 12:48

Will have a look then at the stairs situation on 25th April as I'm due in from AMS on that day. Have stayed away from CWL becasue of the whole dismal experience, hate it. Suppose we share the opposite views of BRS & CWL.

Have fun. TGIF

pipertommy

7th Apr 2006, 14:12

Agree with what has been said about the master plan,aload of nothing.It basically says what they won`t do ,don`t need ie no extra land.I have worked in cwl for seven years now and watched progress at what seems slower than snails pace!!!Any progress has just been gradual,no full on major route launches.Always three steps forward two back.Take likes of British regional pull out,my-travel pull out,Air Wales folding,first choice base the A320 in Exeter in winter because of cwl cost`s.New York flight going to Bristol.Even back to the old marketing of airport utter rubbish!!Any development is done at the least possible cost.Sad way to run an airport and it`s starting to show.I know some of the stuff i said is not DIRECTLY the airports fault but it plays a big part.

TwinAisle

7th Apr 2006, 18:39

OK. Firstly, can I ask what anyone expected to see in the Cardiff Plan? It would be a great read if it said "daily JFK, daily DXB, daily SYD, every major city in Europe and more widebodies on stand than you get at Changi" - but then what value would this be as a document?

Remember that this is the airport's response to a government process, and it should, and does, build on the possible. It would be great if the management at Cardiff could state with certainty which routes they are going to get, who is going to fly them etc, but like all airports, Cardiff has to pitch for its wishlist, and make sensible and realistic assumptions.

I have to say, having read a lot of these plans, the Cardiff one is really very good - realistic, well thought out, and IMHO correctly identifies where the holes in the network are. Also, it is nice to see that the terminal is being thoughtfully redeveloped with respect for what is there and the local environment.

The reason that BRS got a brand new terminal was down to the fact that the old one was a health hazard, designed, seemingly, to crush the spirits of all who used it.... Cardiff's terminal is, I think, pretty good. As for the going up and down stairs malarkey, I'm with Flower - there are a few steps at Cardiff, as there are at BRS arrivals. And BHX. And LHR T3. Cardiff also has the advantage of not making pax walk forever to and from the aircraft. And whilst I am on the subject, ever tried to push a trolley from car hire desk to terminal at BRS? Like the bleeding Matterhorn....

Cardiff's time will come.

MerchantVenturer

7th Apr 2006, 20:20

If interest on this MB in the respective master plans of the two neighbouring airports was an indicator of popularity CWL would be miles ahead. I have mentioned the BRS master plan in that airport’s thread more than once and it has generated very little interest.

As TwinAisle says, the master plans are a response to the government white paper and when people look back in nine or twenty-four years’ time (the two time spans within the plans) I would say confidently that some of the plans, if not the majority, will be seen to be wildly inaccurate in their predictions, either optimistic or pessimistic, because from this point in time no-one can say with any certainty what economic and other conditions will obtain in the years ahead.

I have only read a summary of CWL’s master plan but it does seem realistic, given the circumstances we know at present and might reasonably believe will eventuate in the next two decades or so.

But things can change. Ten years ago who would have forecast the sea change that low cost airlines have brought to the aviation scene, both in the UK and further afield? This sort of expansion could continue apace or something might happen in the world to throw everything out of kilter. However, airports have to plan for the most favourable scenario, whilst retaining a sense of proportion, and I think CWL has done this in its plan.

Incidentally, I think BRS has too, and I have a copy of all 160-odd pages of its draft master plan. The uphill trek from the car hire station would go and there would be more aircraft stands available for walk-on access (there are about six now – not all stands have to be bussed).

I sense that CWL is coming out of a period of undoubted under-performance. The charter market and seat-only sun routes are on a definite upturn and it seems highly likely that more and more European scheduled destinations will come on stream. In fact, they will have to if the airport is to expand in line with its plan.

Rachman

8th Apr 2006, 02:01

I take on board all the sensible comments. It is just frustration tha gets the better of me at times.

Funny how some airports seem better at judging the 'chicken and egg' scenario than others.

I am convinced that a new, modern and exciting airport, to complement our modern and exciting capitol city, would naturally generate more business without really trying. With sensible pricing policies and generous financial incentives, I am sure new airlines would be beating a path to JH's door looking to do business with him.

At the moment, any airline executive who comes to take a look at CWL with a view to putting a shiny new airplane here, sees nothing but a crumbling, tired and bastardised collection of lego decorated with the hazy notion of being a top-flight airport.

Cardiff was built for those halcyon days of aviation which entailed half a dozen viscounts or 748's a day with the occasional excitement of a comet 4c pitching in to whisk 119 novice travellers off to PMI for 2 weeks. The airport was very good at dealing with this type of traffic, and really, its changed little in essence since then. Or the occasional 1000-bomber raid of diverting transatlantic DC-8's and 707's whenever London's weather fell below 500 meters. Something you will have noticed hardly ever happens nowadays.

In those days there was no security to speak of, passengers were gentlefolk who did as they were asked and being a baggage handler was a position that many aspired to.

All that has changed now: You can't move without assessing the security implications, or having them assessed for you, passengers are, in the main, pig-ignorant, demanding little control freaks (some would say "more sophisticated" - huh!) who's every last threat is laced with litigation (sorry Merchant Venturer, I recognise you as one of the few more enlightened tarvellers who would most certainly not fall into this category!) and, come on, who wants to be a baggage handler now?

All this means that times have changed, and will continue to change, and it is, I feel, incumbent on the airport management to be proactive rather than reactive when it comes to airport planning - to lead instead of following too late.

Up the workers!!

Rachman

TwinAisle

8th Apr 2006, 08:51

New, tarty, shiny airports tend to turn many sensible airlines off... remember who gets to pay for what Michael O'Leary has dubbed "taj mahals" - the airline, and by extension the passenger, which doesn't help the economics.

Have to say, in all the airlines I have worked with, the state of the airport mattered not a jot, so long as it was safe.

Rachman

8th Apr 2006, 10:58

...and since when has Michael O'Leary been the arbiter of all things aviation great? Of course any airline has to be a success in order to survive, but in O'Leary's case, success does not equate with greatness.

It is precisely because of the likes of Ryanair and others, with their ruthlessly cynical and bullying tactics, that ground-based airport jobs have become so devalued, both monetarily and in standing.

Take your average Aviance/Servisair Load Controller - a pivotal position which carries enormous individual responsibility (answerable in law) and without whom no airline could (legally) operate - is paid a criminally low salary which has changed little in real terms over the last 20 years. This is because the likes of O'Leary have squeezed handling agent companies to the point of extinction, where in order to survive they have to pay their staff the absoulute minimum they can get away with. The balance is all wrong.

Instead of O'Leary saying "If you want the business of handling my airline, you must drop your rates by 50%", it should be the handling agent saying "If you want to be handled by us, then pay us the going rate so I can give my guys a decent salary". Or somewhere inbetween. Too many deals, too many bribes. All the UK handling agents should get together on this and be resolute in an effort to achieve fair wages for their staff and a fair return for their businesses. If the airlines have to up their fares to pay for it, then so be it.

All Load Control/Despatch jobs should be licensed so that their function is revalued in status and rewarded financially (just like pilots, engineers and ATC - the dispatch function carries just as much responsibility in terms of aircraft safety and security) - I would suggest salaries in the region of £22000 pa basic would reflect this new worth (along with 'proper' training), around £8-10k mre than they currently get. The airlines would have to pay for this via far more realistic handling agreements.

It is well known that nobody ever works in aviation to get rich (except pilots, engineers and ATC -sorry Flower!) - 90% of ground staff are in it because they love it, but that doesn't excuse the pi*s-poor wages they are paid via the extortion by fat-cat airline executives.

It is my opinion that the executives behind Lo-Co airlines are getting fat purely at the expense of airports and their staff, and their passengers are being bamboozled into believing they are getting a great deal, which, with a few exceptions, they are not.

The Lo-Co bubble will burst and when it does, perhaps aviation can get back to what it used to be and should be, the preserve of gentlefolk who sit down, shut up and do as they're told, but are willing to pay for this new level of service.

What has all this to do with the future of CWL, you may well ask?

I shoot my own argument for a new airport down in flames, I guess, because a new airport in a potentially retracting industry would be something of a white elephant - I'd rather be in work in the current grotty surroundings, but with decent wages, than be unemployed looking from the outside in to a gleaming new but empty glass palace.

But, back to reality, Imperial Airways is not about to stage a come-back and the Lo-Co's are likely to be around for some time yet weaving their intricate webs of deceit and pushing handling agents out of business, so, new airport? Its all a bit of a gamble, JH, ain't it?

R

TwinAisle

8th Apr 2006, 11:11

I'd rather be in work in the current grotty surroundings, but with decent wages, than be unemployed looking from the outside in to a gleaming new but empty glass palace.

Exactly my point. Must be better to have modest and realistic improvements at Cardiff which don't add massively to the airport charges, than building a "taj mahal" which no-one wants to fly to?

As for MO'L - love him or loathe him, his airline works. Can't see Ryanair going anywhere soon. And his style of thinking re enormous new airports is being reflected in a lot of boardrooms.

flower

8th Apr 2006, 12:42

Q40099

8th Apr 2006, 13:40

I have to admit when TBI was bought out I expected big things to happen, instead the majority of investment has gone east to Luton and there doesn't appear to have been any change in personel or motivation.

Flower, I totally agree here. Despite the difference in demographics the development at Cardiff has just not happened. It's time TBI got rid of the dead wood, who seem to have dodged the bullet for far too long. Both Bristol and TBI's Luton have very proactive management teams accounting for they're success, this is what Cardiff i think lack.

:ok:

WATABENCH

9th Apr 2006, 12:06

Quick question and dont all take it as CWL bashing because its not, but do you think that airlines such as Zoom and CWL's transatlantic charters would still of chosen CWL over BRS had BRS got a longer runway, no other factors involved, just taking into account the success over the bridge in BRS and the seemingly unfortunate and confusing snails pace of expansion in CWL?, lets just say that we put the CWL runway on top the foggy hill, as well as at CWL, would they still of chosen Rhoose over Lulsgate:confused: ?

MerchantVenturer

9th Apr 2006, 12:37

WATABENCH

BRS has had a poor record with transatlantic charters (it has also been unlucky with at least two airlines that did operate successfully going out of business) even when the runway would be no impediment because of a stop en route via another UK or Irish airport.

For instance EXT has had a weekly summer Toronto service for years, invariably stopping en route at another airport, so if anyone really wanted a service from Bristol they could fly in this way presumably.

The new Zoom service to Vancouver will operate each way via Belfast so again the BRS runway would not have been a bar.

Tui/Thomsonfly seem to have decided to concentrate on CWL in this neck of the woods, not only for transatlantic charters. This summer's and next winter's sun routes are more frequent from CWL than from BRS, unless the Thomsonfly web table is not fully up to date.

You will know better than me that it's not only the BRS runway that is problematical to these sorts of flights. At present there is a dearth of parking for 767-type aircraft as well.

When I spoke to the BRS MD at a road show in the autumn he seemed as puzzled as me (and others of my acquaintance) as to why no-one has re-started a Toronto charter from BRS since Canada 3000 ceased operations.

So it seems that the answer to your question is that CWL may have been chosen ahead of BRS anyway.

Again, your knowledge of these things is greater than mine, but who knows what commercial arrangements airports enter into with airlines.

bycrewlgw

11th Apr 2006, 20:20

Anyone know whats going to happen with FCA at CWL for s07? Are they going to down size due to the expansion of their BRS base? Lets hope TOM will get some new longhaul routes out of CWL for the summer!

WATABENCH

11th Apr 2006, 20:34

I'm pretty sure the FCA flights will keep running in CWL summer 07, just have to wait until wed/thur when FC goes on sale to see, they'll still want an a/c at cwl just as BY stil want one in BRS, think its safe to say now where each airlines main entrest lies in the area FCA-BRS, TOM-CWL. Gives pax from South Wales and West great options on flying locally, about time too, Keep the routes comeing TOM and FCA, it's all good healthy competition and great for consumors:ok:

Outoftheblue22

12th Apr 2006, 21:37

CWL seems to have been a struggle for many in the past, but WOW seem to be making an impact with their NQY and MAN services (can't go anywhere in Cardiff without seeing a WOW advert - so at least they are making an effort with the marketing!). At the end of the day it's schedule and price which are the key drivers. Good to see somebody new having a go anyway.

Q40099

13th Apr 2006, 11:51

WOW are carrying depressing loads on CWL/MAN,single figure passengers on many flights .

I give it 9 months !

:ok:

bycrewlgw

13th Apr 2006, 13:18

What were the PAX loads like when Air Kilroe and BA did this route years ago? The BA flight seemed to last for a while or was it riding on the success of some of the other routes?

Anyone know whats going to happen to the CDG route when 6G cease operations? Are WW going to take it back? Or can we expect a new operator? Loads according to the CAA seem to be quite healthy.

jetstream7

13th Apr 2006, 15:14

WOW are carrying depressing loads on CWL/MAN,single figure passengers on many flights .Stunning. The route is in its 4th day... yes 4th day of operation and it's already been written off.... :mad:
Anyone know whats going to happen to the CDG route when 6G cease operations? Are WW going to take it back? Or can we expect a new operator?The route stops - no ops after 6G finish. Some talk that bmibaby will reintroduce for the autumn/winter schedule, but by then they'll have lost any regular traffic they have to BHX/BRS/LHR.:sad:
Wonder why they haven't kept it going by chartering out to someone else to fly for them? As 6G are supposed to be flying charters after the schedules stop, perhaps they could have kept it going for bmibaby...?