British Airways

[Douglas 8]

Have been given a date for the assesment day has any one got any useful info.

Many Thanks.

[MAX]

Apparantly the debrief in the generic 'wanabes' on the home page is recent and on the money.

When you in?

MAX:cool:

[Douglas 8]

All day on the 8th Dec then if thats ok sim ride on the 9th.
Heres hoping for a good break!!:ok:

[Erik73]

I've been invited to the two day assesment for British Airways. Anybody out there who can give me some info on the subject ?

Thx, Erik73

[JackOffallTrades]

Good luck sir!

The best way is to unscrew your head and install the Robonige2005 computer brain. I think it comes already programmed with the latest bid line rules!!

;)

[Flying Quill]

Try searching the forums; there is more than one thread offering a comprehensive guide to the assessment.

Good luck!

FQ

[flaps to 60]

Erik

Try the thread below. It certainly helped me

http://www.pprune.org/go.php?go=/pub/wanna/BASelection.html

Good luck

[yellowmonster]

Hello,


Next month I'm going for an interview with BA.
I'm sure I'm not the only one. Thought I'd open up a new topic to hear the latest news on what's goin on.

Have some questions:
- Could anyone tell me how many pilots they're still looking for ?

- What sectors are they recruiting for ? MH, LH, either one ?

- If accepted, would you go into service straight away, or do you go into the 'Hold pool' ? And on what does this depend ?


Maybe some guys that have recently started with them could answer me on that one ?

Greetings,

YellowMonster

[Artificial Horizon]

Yellow Monster,

I am mid way through line training with BA so will try and answer your questions:

1) On our induction day in April we were told that BA had recruited about 100ish DEP's and that this was roughly half of the requirement for this year. At that stage the plan was to have a course of DEP's starting every week through to October at the earliest and possibly beyond.

2)They are recruiting for both medium and long haul operations. If you have a full ATPL with a significant amount of time on heavy jets then you will most likely get streamed to the Long Haul on the 777, if less than 1000tt on jets then expect to be offered the A320. This is not hard and fast and currently seems to be changing everytime you speak to someone.

3)If accepted you will always go into the holding pool. The question then becomes 'how long will you be in the holding pool?'. At the moment it is likely you will be straight in and straight out. I was in the holding pool for approx. 4 days and this seems to be the norm at the moment. You can turn down a job offer at this stage and you will then stay in the hold pool and MAY be offered something again in the future if required.

Hope that helps.

A.H.

[Flying_Sarah747]

Hi everyone...I'm not sure if this is the correct place for this or not...If not, feel free to move it to where it should be.

Anyway, I'm currently cabin crew for BA, but am very interested in working up the front end of the plane, and just have a few questions.

Firstly, does anybody know of, or if there's likely to be another cadet program run by the company? If so, what type of qualifications do you need?

If there's no cadet program to be run, what's the average cost to fund yourself through flying school, and where's the best place to do this? Is it a full time course, or can you work and do the course at the same time? And finally, on average how long does it take most people to become fully qualified ie. CPL???

Thanks all.......

[ifleeplanes]

Hey Sarah, its as good a place as any to start looking...Have a look in Wannabies thats full of info on how to get up the front, the different schools and costs.

The two main schools in the UK are Oxford Air Training and Cabair, but there are many many more smaller ones. There are two main ways to get your license, integrated (basicaly starting from scratch studying full time lasts about 18 months) and modular (where you start off with a PPL, private pilots license, and slowly work your way up part time, takes as long as it takes). Cost wise integrated is the most expensive and costs approx £60k ish and modular probably£40k ish.

Have a chat to the pilots you fly with Im sure they will be pleased to help.

Sadly I think the days of cadetships have gone, and getting a job as an ab-initio pilot at the end of it all isn't easy.

Hope thats a little help but its a huge topic that needs alot of research:O

[Jinkster]

have a look on www.britishairwaysjobs.com for cadetships.

Also try www.ccat.org.uk for self funded course! Good luck! :)

Anymore info - feel free to PM!

[scroggs]

While the BA Cadet Pilot scheme is still referred to on their website, it does not currently exist and it seems unlikely that it will ever resume in the format it took before 9/11. There is no news to suggest that any BA Cadet scheme is likely in the near future.

Check the Archive thread on Wannabes - Professional Pilot Training for lots of information about the types of courses and their costs, the timescales involved, and the experiences of those who have gone through them. Expect to pay somewhere between £45,000 and £100,000 depending on which route you take, and how long you take to do it. An ATPL can be achieved whille in full-time employment if your employer is flexible. In fact, on that note - I've a feeling that you can do much of the course at the BA Flying Club at Booker, near High Wycombe, at a BA-subsidised cost. Check your internal staff information for more details.

Scroggs

[AIRWAY]

G'day Sarah,

What made you change your mind? :D

BA Flying Club is a good choice and being a staff member you might get some sort of discount, i have just moved there to continue with my training from a previous flying school.

Like scroggs has mentioned you can indeed do your training while working (that's what i'm doing at the moment) and yourself being cabin crew im sure it would be possible to fit your training around your day's off and holidays, it is possible.

Regarding cost, well i have to admit it is not cheap it all depends where you do your training, but certainly the modular route is cheaper than integrated.

All the best anything im just a PM away, and if you pop in to BA flying Club just let me know.

Regards,
Airway
:8

[Crazypilot A]

Firstly, does anybody know of, or if there's likely to be another cadet program run by the company?

I hope there never is! work like a donkey and self sponsor yourself like i did. I don't want anybody to have the easy way in to the industry as i didn't!

[Timeout]

Sarah,

Have you had a look at the CTC Wings Programme? It is probably the closest scheme to a cadetship programme running at the moment. About 80% of the cadets are pre selected by an airline, normally easyJet, and the remainder are placed after traning to airline such as Monarach or Britannia.

www.ctcaviation.com/wings

There is a long running thread on PPrune regarding the scheme.

Timeout

[Joe le Taxi]

From the horses mouth; the cadetship programme is frozen until the 55/60+ retirement issue is resolved, as the longer lead in time for cadets makes crew planning difficult.

There-after, it will be re-considered.

[adwjenk]

How true is this though!!

Why would BA start up the scheme again when they can pick and choose the best from OAT etc...

Also all BA has to pay for is the type rating on the A3xx and the B737 so why start to pay the 70k plus for training as well as type rating, when there are future pilots who are prepared to pay the 70k.

It wouldant seem logical. Also i though BA retired at 55 and didant have any flight Crew over that age?

Andy

[Grass strip basher]

My understanding is that BA's retirement age may well go up to 60 in 12-18 months time (I stand to be corrected if I am wrong)..... this could slow their current brisk levels of recruitment to a trickle for 4-5 years as older pilots stay put for another 5 years.... this of course will have a knock on impact all the way down the recruitment foodchain..... certainly food for thought if you plan on spending £70k on an integrated course with the intention of emerging with a fresh frozen ATPL in c18 months time.... any older experienced hacks out their got a view as to what this may mean for us wanabees looking for that first break? (scroggs et al???)

[Re-Heat]

I believe BA had already extended it to 60 a month or so ago for those who wish to go on until then, with a view to increasing it further or eliminating it in accordance with the EU directives once the procedures for establishing the suitability of older pilots are established - and once the French bother complying with EU directives.

Ironic really that we have the best compliance with EU directives when the French are supposed to think that they are the centre of the EU. I digress...

[Grass strip basher]

I suppose most of the current crop of "oldies" up for retirement at BA are on the old defined benefit pension scheme so unless it is compulsory to stay on why bother.... I can't imagine there is that much financial incentive in doing an extra 5 years like there would be on a defined contribution scheme..... I know the BA door has only just stop spinning from where my old man dashed through the exit when he turned 55.... will be very different when us wannabees get to that age...:{

[adwjenk]

Hi

Great BA have selected to increase there retirment age.
But as mentioned this will have slowed down the hireing process therefore less pilots need.
So it will be at least 5 years before they re start there cadet scheme but will the airline industry have slowed down by then with regards to recrutment?

Andy

[scroggs]

Under legislation due to take effect next year, BA's flight deck crew retirement age will rise to 60 from next year, and may rise further in the future (Virgin's is already 65 by optional contract extension). This change has been known about for a very long time, and will certainly have influenced BA's current policy of not resurrecting the cadet scheme.

BA are currently not particularly interested in taking ab-initios anyway; the 24 they are taking this year (from a variety of schools) are a very small proportion of their total pilot requirement. As we have pointed out several times before, when you lot are prepared to spend up to £100K on your own training, why should BA (or anyone else) offer to pay it for you?

As for BA's manning requirements for the future, I understand that many of those who can go at 55 will still do so, even though they could stay. BA are not expanding, but the cost-saving measures they have taken over the last 4 years have left them short of pilots. Assuming nothing drastic happens in the market, it seems reasonable to assume that BA will continue recruiting at roughly their current rate for the next few years.

Scroggs

[Flymat]

Hi all,

I am looking for some unbiased information about BA. So please don't make the company look worse than it is nor better.

- Does anyone have experience with the training at Cranebank ?
- How long does it last approximately from the first day till the first pax flight ? Are you paid during training ?
- When working for BA on short haul, is commuting possible ? I know it doesn't matter for BA where you live, but is it actually possible ? Does BA arrange something for commuters ?
- How about scheduling ? I heard from BA that their rosters are one of the main advantages of BA compared to other companies. But how does an average roster look like when you just join BA ?
- I read a lot about seniority and that ik takes many years to become captain. But what is a realistic scenario for this ?
- Is staff travel so badly organised as some say ? I can understand some flights are very hard to get, but in average ... how is it organised ? Do you have advantages for partners as well ?
- Are there any good reasons why not joining BA ? To me it seems like one of the best companies to work for. Of course there certainly are some disadvantages too, but perfect is not to find on earth I guess.

Quite a list of questions, but I hope I get some serious responses on this.

Cheers,
Flymat

[Craggenmore]

Flymat,

Right now there are a multitude of threads in the Terms & E's forum (page 3 for example) and also on this forum that deal with every answer to your questions and a whole lot more.

Try the search facility if you haven't already....

[davecr]

Hi guys!

Just got the best phone call of my life! I passed the sim assesment for BA and soon I'll start my JOC!

Now for my question - what base/aircraft can you currently expect as a SSP?

Dave

[Beast_Of_The_Cockpit]

Sorry for the foolishness...

What does SSP stand for?

[davecr]

Self sponsored pilot :ok:

ie... low-houred.

[36533]

Dave,

Congratulations, well done for getting through the selection.

I believe that as an SSP you can expect either Airbus out of LHR or 737 out of LGW.

A couple of questions for you:

When did you do the day one selection, and how long after your sim ride did you get the call saying that you were sucessful?

Thanks

[Beast_Of_The_Cockpit]

Thanks DaveCR.

And well done to you. Good news.

[davecr]

Day one 2nd week of October, got a call that same evening to report back next morning at 0700 :D

One week between sim and result!

[woof]

Well done.

Were you an Oxford / Jerez / Integrated chap?

Brilliant news.

My brother is a BA chap andsays that you'll almost certainly be on the 737 or Airbus. Location?

[wobble2plank]

Tough one to answer that.....

A320 Family = LHR
737's = Gatwick

Good luck

[davecr]

Thanks guys, that's what I figured. Just wondering if they're still recruiting for both the airbus and the 737.

@ Woof - Yep, I'm an integrated chap! Not from a British flight school though :D PM me if you want more info. Did some photo-flights after graduating, around 30 hrs, but that's about it.



:ok:

[Dozza2k]

Congrats,

The JOC is a great experience, really worthwile and good fun.

Expect to wait a few months on completion of the JOC, my wait is just under 4 months, Airbus for me but rumours say that most/all SSP's are going to 737 from feb onwards.

D2K

[OBK!]

Congratulations on getting to the BA! Where abouts do you apply for British Airways?

[davecr]

@ Dozza - Thanks for that! Can't wait to get started on the JOC. Actually I heard the waiting times are getting shorter and shorter as the list of "students" in holding pool is slowly getting smaller.

[BigAir]

I hope theres a load more on the 737 from feb onwards - ties in with what i think is happening as no one new has appeared at the bottom of our list for a couple of months now and the rate i am building hours will see me having some time off next year unless the get some other newbies in to work hard.

Congrats on getting in though, If given a choice i would say head down to LGW - really friendly bunch of people down here, an aircraft that will bite your backside if you arent on the ball and a great learning experience. As a junior pilot you probably get more choice of lifestyle on the 737 with our bid system as opposed to bidline on the airbus. Swings and roundabouts really, but other advantages of lgw are minimal holding, younger captains - so fewer grumpy oldies (none that i have flown with yet anyway). You sometimes feel a bit like an isolated limb from mainline BA, and the next 18 months will be a telling time for LGW shorthaul but with that in mind i would say that within 3 years you wont be flying a 737 so good to get the experience whilst you can.

Enjoy the JOC, if you go to CTC the foods exellent - i put on half a stone in 3 weeks.

Enjoy

Bigair

[zerograv]

Davecr

Congrats on getting a position on the JOC course.
Well done!!!

(just kidding) KLM seems to be recruiting. May be
you could leaving your position vacant for me :E

Did a check on BA's web site and couldn't anything
regarding applicants from integrated courses.

Congrats,
Zerograv

[davecr]

Thanks! Seems like you have to be recommended by your FTO to get into the SSP programme for BA.. Unfortunately BA only takes students from a limited number of flight schools.

Dave

[AIRWAY]

Hello,

Which other schools apart from OAT?

Regards

[Badgast]

From what I can remember: Jerez, Nls and Kls (Netherlands) and Ctc. Anyone know more?

[Megaton]

So, in other words, cough up huge sums, keep your nose clean, pay your bills and get recommendation. Simple really!

[zerograv]

Davecr

Was just taking the pi**!!!

Best of luck for the coming course.

Congrats,
Zerograv

[Crazypilot A]

FTE Jerez, OAT & CAT are the only ones....i personally went to jerez and got into ba under the ssp scheme... :=

[Badgast]

People of the Kls and Nls are also being interviewed by Ba, maybe not that much as Jerez and Oxford, but they do seem to be taking ab initio's from these (very expensive) dutch schools.

[Allister]

Guys - I assume CAT is Cabair ?

[Crazypilot A]

Yup - CCAT is cabair...missed a 'c'

[supercruise593]

.. & yup CTC also are providing cadets for BA selection.

593...

[MD11Man]

Thanks for all the info guys, I am also reading... Good thing the food will be OK ;)

Can't wait!

[sam34]

hello!

I am surprised there are lot of thread about low cost recruitment etc but few about Bristish Airways... Does BA recruit low timer ? or only experimented pilots?
what are the conditions exactly ?

thank you!

sam

[FlyUK]

Yes, BA does take low timers. They are called SSP's (Self Sponsored Pilots) On average BA takes about 2 SSP's a month, and interviews about 16 every couple of months. However they only ask integrated students from FTE, Oxford and Cabair to interviews.

[dartagnan]

if they take 2 guys a month from Oxford, it means the rest are unemployed.

So what 's the point to spend all this money?

[sam34]

OK?, many thnaks.
I have not known they asked integrated students... :bored:
Cesco, by low timer I mean students with only CPL/IR MCC JAA without experience. :}

[FlyUK]

if they take 2 guys a month from Oxford, it means the rest are unemployed.

So what 's the point to spend all this money?

I didn't say that they take 2 from Oxford, I said they take about 2 a month. They (taking a wild stab in the dark) most probably get jobs with airlines other than BA? Maybe? :hmm:

Whats the point? Worked out nicely for me, and I didn't go to Oxford. :ok:

[avo79]

hello all. i see this thread has not be used for some time so wait with bated breath…..i think ill be going blue soon!

Q. I have a place on a up and coming assessment day I would like to ask if anyone has ANY information about it. Particularly Q’s in the interview (tech and personal).

[Aviation kid]

Yes, me too.

Any info would be good as i can't seem to get these damn links to work.

Thanks,

AK.

[Jinkster]

do you chaps have experience or direct from a school?

Thanks, Jinkster

[Aviation kid]

Straight out of FTE. Arrived home Monday gone.

AK.

[Jinkster]

ah well done chap - good luck with it!!

Had a friend go through it - sim assesment on 1-11 at braincrank (cranebank) and the pilapt testing.....computer based not aviation related trip!

Good luck :ok:

[c152pilot]

Hi,

Does anybody know where i can find info on the new 747 ba sim ride? i have searched the site but can't find anything

Thanks

[Aviation kid]

c152pilot,

How did you find the sim? I have mine mid-November.

Are there any hints and tips you could give??

Thanks,

AK.:ok:

[120class]

I originally posted this as a reply on another forum but this is a brief account of a recent BA Sim I flew for a DEP postion.

Sim Test was on the 747-400. The sim was run by a Captain and SFO although not in our case from the 747 Fleet. In general the conduct was very friendly and straightforward. It was up to us as which seats we occupied for PF or PNF roles.

Briefing - Covered basic aircraft systems, radios, navaids and autopilot use (not A/T). The brief also covered what was and was not being assessed (landing etc). Issued jetplans, weather & approach plates for the first leg;we were then allowed about 15 mins to plan the sortie choosing suitable divs etc.
Before each leg the respective PF was given an unassessed take-off, approach and landing prior to the Test.
Profile - Brussels to Heathrow (for me as PNF) followed by a break during which we received the next leg details which was Heathrow to Stansted as PF. We were expected to follow the relevent SID & STAR with of course timely interjections by ATC. We did not get a diversion on either leg. We had a few questions such as being asked to calculate ETAs etc.

At the end, we asked to debrief ourselves on the good and bad points. All in all the test took about 6 hours including briefs, breaks & chat.

Hope that helps.

Good Luck

Cheers

[CLSpringer1223]

Hi,
I'm currently working on getting my private pilot's license and I really want to fly for BA. I was wondering what the pilot requirements are. Thanks for all the help.

[future captain]

As a low hour pilot, you would have to achieve over 85% in ground school exams etc and then get recommended by one of their approved flight training organisations. Otherwise you could apply as a direct entry pilot, where you would have experience in the commercial world. Those requirements are on their site (i think only when vacancies become available), these may change from time to time. Happy flying.

[TopBunk]

Try this link http://www.britishairwaysjobs.com/baweb1/?newms=info10

I believe that you will also need the right to live and work in the UK - I note that you are from Texas.

[JayB]

Hi everyone,

Like everyone else looking to start a career in aviation, I was peeved when I heard that BA had stopped their cadet sponsorship program. I have also read the numerous messages that say the "why would BA start the scheme again when they are getting enough pilots that self-sponsor now?", and yes I totally agree that it wouldn't make sense.

However, I have a friend at Uni whose mother is an air hostess for BA, and her pilot friends have been suggesting that the management at BA think the quality of pilots aren't as good as the BA scheme used to churn out (I know they are from the same flight schools, and no disrespect intended), but more importantly the shortage of pilots coupled with the apparent poor quality has lead to a rumour that BA may start the cadet scheme again in the next couple of years.

Has anyone got any info on this, or am I just clutching at straws?

Thanks

[ultimatepro63]

You never could turn out to be right but the odds of getting a sponsorship is abit bleak i have looked into sponsorship and seen its very competitive and there is a hell of a lot of people up against you.

[Flik Roll]

I saw this thread title and got so excited :(

[sicky]

You never could turn out to be right but the odds of getting a sponsorship is abit bleak i have looked into sponsorship and seen its very competitive and there is a hell of a lot of people up against you.

Well somebody has to get it, why can't it be me, you or anybody else? It could be any one of us :)

[rogueflyer01]

Line Manager:

Hello Mr CFO of BA, i would like to start a sponsorship scheme for cadet pilots. Like the one we used to run pre - 9/11.

CFO:

I understand we have a SSP in place that takes recruits from a number of integrated schools. Whats wrong with that?

Line Manager:

Nothing much but i dont feel its delivering quality pilots.

CFO:

Whats the cost likely to be?

Line Manager:

65k per cadet

CFO:

So at the moment we have lots of people paying their own way and basically you want us to pay for them instead?

Line Manager:

Yes

CFO:

What school would you send them to?

Line Manager:

One of the ones we recruit from now.

CFO:

Get the **** out of my office.....

Notepad:

Recommend firing Line Manager :uhoh:

[Craggenmore]

rogueflyer01,

That made me laugh, thanks :}

[High Wing Drifter]

JayB,

If this is the case, then my guess is that it will be tied in the with up and comming MPL. Given BA's large sim infrastructure it would seem natural that they send the cadets to Oxford/Cabair/FTE/BGS/etc for the theory and 70 hours of real aeroplane antics and then take the simulator based training in-house.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I seriously doubt that an old style BA Cadetship scheme will return. For those unaware you used to be able to fill out an application, be called for an interview and some tests (travel expenses reimbursed and a free lunch) and then if chosen be sent to a large school for 13 months where you paid for nothing, wore a shiny uniform and got paid beer money each week. If you managed not to fail too many bits they started you on a jet at Heathrow or Gatwick and got you to sign a final salary pension agreement as well. I know it sounds like I am making it up but thats how things used to be - honest.

They MIGHT introduce a new sponsorship scheme where they get to do the selection again in return for a partial sponsorship and a bond. I wouldn't see why they'd need to though. They can have the pick of all that graduate from the Integrated course merely by pulling into the car park and announcing with a load hailer that the man from BA recruitment is here.

The only thing a sponorship would achieve for them is that they might attract some applicants who otherwise did not intend to undertake training. This is the silly sort of thing large companies like BA do as the HR department has enough clout to force them to hire a diverse range of people as pilots. This is 'a good thing' in the view of the HR department. The result that you recruit some people to be pilots who would rather have been doctors or fund managers means nothing to the HR department.

So for Joe Wannabe the truth is that if BA were to bring in a sponsorship scheme again in all likelihood all it would do is to bring more (usually high calibre) people into the market for the job you covet so much.

Its more in your interest to peddle the myth that ALL training to become a pilot costs £80,000 and is very hard and you can't get a job unless you know someone in an airline. At least it discourages the merely curious.

Good luck,

WWW

[High Wing Drifter]

flyboy,

Suggest you read this, MPL adoption by the JAA is already well under way: http://www.raes-fsg.org.uk/PDF/P5_Woods.ppt

It is interesting that some are interpreting the "Type rating gained withing an airline environment" as effectively meaning that the type rating will, for all practical considerations, tied to the sponsoring airline! Not just that, but it seems that Lufthansa, who pushed so hard for the MPL have now lost interest in it and have no future plans that include it: Source: http://www.gapan.org/tech.htm

Sorry if this looks like another MPL thread, but surely any assessment of sponsorship is dependant on its progress (or lack thereof).

[jamestkirk]

Very funny.

But I would'nt put it past any of them to come out with such a scheme. I mean, it makes perfect sense to sponsor pilots when there are so many of us out there without a job.

Sorry, I am just reflecting what everyone else is saying.

Good luck everyone

[high-hopes]

The only thing a sponorship would achieve for them is that they might attract some applicants who otherwise did not intend to undertake training. This is the silly sort of thing large companies like BA do as the HR department has enough clout to force them to hire a diverse range of people as pilots. This is 'a good thing' in the view of the HR department. The result that you recruit some people to be pilots who would rather have been doctors or fund managers means nothing to the HR department.


I personally would apply to a "proper" sponsorship. And like me, I am sure there would be many others. And I don't wanna be a doctor or a fund manager.
I simply can't stand being in debt, so I will never take 60 grand loan in the name of a "sponsorship" the likes of the current ones where you pay for everything.
But for a real sponsorship you can be sure there would be plenty of skilled and motivated people prepared to fight for a place !
Would that raise the profiles of the cadets ? I think it would.

h-h

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

high-hopes, Whilst a sponsorship would allow you to perhaps become a commercial pilot, with skill and motivation, there is no shortage of these at the moment. They clearly have more motivation than you because they are willing to take on high debt levels. I flew with an FO this month who is a cool £82,000 in the red. But he's in a 737-700 in his early 20's with the ability to be a Captain well before his 30th birthday. He then has 30 years of earning near £100k and will in future decades laugh at the piffling debt he used to be in. I don't see why or how "raising the profile" of cadets is in any way important.

Studi - there isn't, wasn't and never will be a shortage of people with a commercial pilots license and no experience or type rating. The cup runneth over with talented people who are failed commercial pilots. They were unlucky and not in the right place at the right time and unless you get lucky in just a few short years the real world intrudes and you have to do something else in order to pay off your debt and/or get back to paying the mortgage and feeding the kids.

People. There are dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of cadets coming through the likes of CTC who are personable, have decent degrees from good universities and who are extremely switched on. I've seen loads of them and they are all in extreme debt. There are more following. BA could snap them up tomorrow and more importantly they have been doing so for the last 2 years at least.

There have been CTC cadets by the dozen joining easyJet for a year, 6 months, even a few weeks in some cases before being accepted into BA. These people are all below 30, have type ratings on a NG Boeing or Airbus and have impressive CV's. They are therefore BETTER than the old cadets were because some of those used to fail type training or line training. And instead of costing £80k each plus selection costs and a team of people managing the sponsorship scheme these people cost BA not a sausage. Why would they go back to a more expensive way of taking more training risk?

But stranger things have happened.

WWW

[FlyUK]

"I have a friend at Uni whose mother is an air hostess for BA, and her pilot friends...."


Gotta say thats not going to be the most reliable info ever! :}

Mate, i'm sorry to dash your, and a lot of other hopes, but its not going to happen.
As long as they can get good pilots from integrated schools, why bother going anywhere else. The training Captains I have flown with recently have actually said some of the low hour guys coming through at the moment are the best they have seen, because they are being selected AFTER training rather than before and have therefore proved themselves throughout the courses instead of being picked because they have a masters degree in rocket science. :E

Please don't shoot the messenger. :ok:

[high-hopes]

high-hopes, Whilst a sponsorship would allow you to perhaps become a commercial pilot, with skill and motivation, there is no shortage of these at the moment. They clearly have more motivation than you because they are willing to take on high debt levels. I flew with an FO this month who is a cool £82,000 in the red. But he's in a 737-700 in his early 20's with the ability to be a Captain well before his 30th birthday. He then has 30 years of earning near £100k and will in future decades laugh at the piffling debt he used to be in. I don't see why or how "raising the profile" of cadets is in any way important.


why one can never post a thought on pprune without getting a lecture in return ?
If you measure motivation with how much debt you're prepared to take, well let me disagree with you.
Probably true, what separates wannabes from pro's is the financial commitment (especially in this age and time), but in my case, where I have a great job and an interesting life outside work (also thanks to the flying I do at my own expenses) why would I want to chuck it all to get 82k in the red ? A 737-700 is a great place to work, and so would be a KingAir or a Caravan, but who says that there aren't other ways to get there without knocking on the bank's manager door ?
I have my own reasons so please think again before you comment on other people's motivations. Ta !

h-h

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

high-hopes - not that its a negative thing in any way but your motivation isn't high by your own description. You have a nice life and decent career and enjoy private flying. Good on you.

Compared to some who have what can only be described as a rabid obsession to become an airline pilot you are probably a more balanced and sensible person. But less motivated.

Cheers

WWW

[Groundloop]

If BA were to start a scheme it would most likely be of the "mentored" type which is now quite common. That is, the student pays (with BA's pre-selection helping with the loan application) and, if performance on the course is good (probably VERY high standard required) and BA has vacancies when student graduates - then first in the queue.
Basically it costs the airline peanuts but they have some control over what the student does (mainly BA SOPS during the MCC course).

[FiiS]

To fuel the unstoppable rumour machine further ... I had a chat with a gent recently who reckoned BA had continued their scheme "quietly" enabling a couple of select individuals every once in a while to get their ATPL and get employed with the flag carrier ... one such person being this guy's son ... large pinch of salt needed, perhaps!! :confused:

[chileconcarne27]

Not such a large pinch needed me thinks! A friend of mine was offered a deal with BA, quietly on the side, as you say...

When i found out about it, i phoned BA, just to query the fact, and no-one knows anything about it! weird......i think if you know someone who knwos someone blah blah blah then that'll be your only way in.....

To me, i think its quite an unfair way of doing thing. The majority of pilots would love to be flying a jet with them and they're playing with people's futures and dreams - either give everyone a fair chance or none at all!

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

That would be an urban myth.

BA could not offer cadetships "on the quiet". There are many many good reasons why they could not do this. Not least being:

a) There is no budget for it in their accounts,

b) It would break the law regarding advertising and selecting people for jobs,


The fact they were doing it would leak in about 5 seconds in the world of flying training providers - and it hasn't.


Urban myth.

WWW

[Lucifer]

A few rumours to knock on the head - the selection process does not favour children of current BA staff - not only do HR not particularly like them, but attitude has got in the way of a fair few in the past. Selection is equitable and meritocratic.

There is no scheme on the side by any means - there is only selection after recommendation from flight training schools, which though ad hoc, was above board and not subject to favouratism.

Furthermore, there is no budget for it at all. Whatsoever.

[ChocksAwayUK]

A few rumours to knock on the head - the selection process does not favour children of current BA staff - not only do HR not particularly like them, but attitude has got in the way of a fair few in the past.

I was always told that it was advisable not to disclose any family connections to BA in a any BA selection as it would count against you as they don't want to be seen to favour nepotism. Typical BA-style equal opportunites stuff. I never new it was actually because they are instrinsically dislikeble characters with attitude problems! :ooh:

[Lucifer]

I was always told that it was advisable not to disclose any family connections to BA in a any BA selection as it would count against you as they don't want to be seen to favour nepotism. Typical BA-style equal opportunites stuff. I never new it was actually because they are instrinsically dislikeble characters with attitude problems! :ooh:
You are right - because there were some!

[ttoam]

Hi everyone,

120class - good post, loads of useful info.

I was wondering if anyone had experience of the SSP sim assessment? I believe it is different to the DEP and maybe assessed slightly differently? (i.e more emphasis on quick learning than captaincy/accuracy?).

What are the things that most low-hours candidates find hardest/mess up?

Does anyone have any good tips or advice on handling the 747 for the first time etc?

Your thoughts appreciated.

Cheers ttoam

[CarbHeatIn]

Maybe this is all wishful thinking and includes a lot of "ifs" but bear with me....
I've a good friend who paid 28k for type rating and line training on 757.
Straight into a job, starting salary circa 40k.
No reduced salary to pay for rating and no bond so he's free to move on if a better offer comes along.
After 1 year when this guy has 500 hours on type, he is then elligible to apply to BA.
If accepted, financially he is in a much better position than the Integrated guy who finished his training at exactly the same time and went straight to BA from Oxford/Cabair etc.
He enters BA as a DEP so gets a significantly higher salary then the Oxford guy who's on the SSP salary.
His loan repayments are significantly lower then the Oxford guy as the total cost of his modular training plus the 28k for type and line training is still lower than the cost of an integrated course.
As he's rated on a BA type and has 500 hours, he goes straight onto mixed fleet, 757/767 flying and the lifestyle benefits that go with it. The Oxford guy remains on the 320/737 for 4 years.
The only downside is he has 1 years less seniority then the Oxford guy, so will be 1 year longer waiting for command all things being equal.

[adwjenk]

Hey,

one floor with BA even if you are type rated on the aircraft they will send you where they need you! Your friend my have 500hrs 757 and go onto the 737 for example!
A friend of mine had a 757 rating with a few hundred hours on type and he went onto the 777!
Plus the 757/767 is one of the most sought after fleet or so i have heard due to the mix of route! ie some short haul as well as long haul with the 767 out of Manchester to New york!

Best of luck

[Stall-turn-Go]

What happens if this chap after forking out 28k for his type rating doesn't get a job with the intermediate airline? where's the guarantee?

[nosewheelfirst]

There are no guarantees neither are there guarantees if you go to Oxford its all hypothetical. :ok:

[adwjenk]

Well said nosewheelfirst!

[maxdrypower]

perhaps im a bit stupid here but where did he get and how much did his atpl cost ?by my reckonings all thats happened here is oxford guy has spent 75 grand ish and your friend has paid over 100 grand ? butmaybe its just me

[CarbHeatIn]

He got his frozen ATPL via the modular route. He spent about 25k on it and 28k on type/line training.


What happens if this chap after forking out 28k for his type rating doesn't get a job with the intermediate airline? where's the guarantee?

He was lucky enough to be on a scheme whereby he was guaranteed a contract on successful completion of type rating and line training. Granted, such schemes are difficult to come by. But there's nothing to stop a Ryanair cadet applying to BA as a DEP once they've obtained 500 hours and the Ryanair schem is less than 28k if my memory serves me correctly.

[maxdrypower]

then fair doooooooes and good luck to him

[FlyUK]

I have stopped posting for a while, but this one got me hook, line and sinker.
I have to say, yes it is all possible, but it is being discussed in the latest pay negotiations as to whether the system is 'fair' or not. So may not be option much longer.
However you will find (certainly everyone I know in the position you describe) got into BA without even considering your little career path.
If your friend is honestly considering it as a path to BA, then he might want to start buying a lot of lottery tickets, he might be better off.
p.s. If accepted Is the biggest IF I have ever seen.

[CarbHeatIn]

My friend is very happy where he is. His situation just got me thinking.

I also know a couple of people who got into BA from Ryanair. They hadn't planed it that way exactly but did join Ryanair hoping it would be a stepping stone to BA/VS/EI/CX/EK etc.

[carbheatout]

25k on it and 28k on type/line training

28k on Type was pretty Close Phantom, but £53k all in is pretty much spot on.

A bigger 'type' to be added shortly and very happy with it all.

If I had to do it all over again I would do it the same way. Modular, type rating, line training all out of my own pocket (via somebody else's!).

[Megaton]

Didn't spend a lot on modular, got job with FlyBE, 22o sectors later (which doesn't take long) applied for BA. Now on the Airbus fleet.

[Mister Geezer]

To be rated on the 757 doesn't mean that you will move to the 757 with BA. Anyway the only fleets they are recruiting for at the moment are the Bus and the 737. Unlike other airlines, BA seem to still put you through the best part of the sim type rating course, even if you are rated on that type already so it does not make a big deal of difference in the long run.

Also you may be mixed fleet flying but remember that the senior F/Os that commute will snap up the long haul trips before the junior guys can get a sniff!

[Flying_Sarah747]

Hi everyone. I was just wondering if anybody else has heard the rumour about British Airways starting sponsorships again? Any info would be great, thanks!

[Hookerbot 5000]

Hi everyone. I was just wondering if anybody else has heard the rumour about British Airways starting sponsorships again? Any info would be great, thanks!


^lol

BA TC : Hello CFO

BA CFO : Hello m8, how's tricks

BA TC: Fine, i want to start up a sponsorship like we used to run before 9/11.

BA CFO : I understand we take cadets from OAT, FTE etc what's wrong with that?

BA TC: Erm...Nothing really

BA CFO: OK :confused: erm so if we did start one again where would you send them them and how much would it cost?

BA TC: To OAT, FTE etc anywhere between £68k - £85k depending on the college.

BA CFO : So basically you want to start up a scheme that sends potential cadets we select to the same colleges and you want to shift the FINANCIAL RESPONSIBLITY (and training risk) from the student to the airline?

BA TFC: Erm when you put it that way..yes..i guess

BA CFO : You are aware that we face increasing competition from the low cost carriers and we really need to protect our 'bottom dollar'?

BA TC: Yes but...

BA CFO : Get the F*ck out of my office.

Memo to Willy (BA CEO) : Fire BA TC.

I hope i have illustrated the point. I wish it was true but this rumour seems to pop up every year...:bored::=

:ok::):p;)

[Callsign Kilo]

Mmmmm....and I have seen this rolling dialogue in response to said rumour as well. Must be a standard issue response; although pretty accurate I'm sure :*

[greywind]

As CTC still consider BA a partner airline ( I therefore assume they still are) would they not just ask CTC and like companies (OAT etc) for some of the cadets they are currently training anyway?

Nice as it would be if BA started sponsoring again it doesn't seem likely

[Groundloop]

BA had some informal discussions with some FTOs about 12 months ago. However if anything happened it would be a mentored scheme, not sponsorship.

[First Officer78]

Hi everyone!

Hope that you all are fine out there.

I have just applied for BA. Did saw that there are recruiting. If you are a previous experienced pilot, type rated with more than 500 jet hours.

I have approximately 1000h on the B737 and would like to know more about there assessment days.

Is there any one that has been there recently and have some good information what to expect.

How many days?

What type of questions?
What type of different tests?
SIM check, what to expect?

Relaxed interviews?

I would appreciate any kind of information.

Thanks

First Officer78

[Craggenmore]

First Officer78

read this thread

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=147292

[rossilinni]

From the downunder site - long way to travel for a course - not a bad looking site though.

Rossi


If you've got the money to spend (I guess it can be another part of the whole Aviation dream investment fund), the PATS course has been a big success for many pilots for giving them the edge during the Assessment 2 Stage. Have a look at the new website which will be officially launched on Monday.
http://pats.visualjazz.com.au (http://pats.visualjazz.com.au/)
Pricing is mentioned under the Qantas area in the Airlines Link. I wish this existed when I first did the testing, I'm sure it would have helped!
Regards, PA ;)