Is this normal?

[punkalouver]

Flying as a pax the other day just aft of the cockpit on the upper deck. While engines are starting on pushback, a person who appears to be the lead flight attendant(based on uniform) opens the cockpit door and lets two people from the cabin into the cockpit for taxi and takeoff(they appear to be a couple but their background is unknown).
During most the flight they are in the cabin but re-enter the cockpit for landing and then are led back to into the cabin by the F/A while the aircraft taxis in to the gate.

Merci beaucoup for answering.

[nojwod]

There are many reasons why a captain might choose to allow people into the cockpit, they might be airline personnel, they might be his next door neighbour, they might be his son and daughter.

I imagine if it's not explicitly prohibited by an airline then it is nothing to be worried about.

[SeldomFixit]

For the longest time it was known as sharing the pleasure of flight :(

[Bengerman]

It depends what country the flight is taking place in and what country the airline belongs to.

After Twin Towers many countries made it illegal for any but specific, authorised personnel to be on a flight deck during flight.

Some countries take this more seriously than others, the rules in UK being particularly draconian.

[skydriller]

Before '9/11', many kind and generous flight crew would let you visit the cockpit to see what their job is all about. Unfortunately various authorities around the world decreed that this was way too dangerous after that tragic event and this enjoyable practice has all but disappeared.

The first time I visited a flight deck was on a 707 when I was around six years old, and the visit sparked my interest in aviation which has continued to this day. Prior to '9/11', many crews have allowed me the priviledge to visit them and while away part of the flight with them. Thanks to you all. I am saddened that my son will probably not be allowed to do the same thing I did when he is a little older....

Regards, SD..

[Avman]

Fortunately, many non-UK and non-US airlines are not under the same strict and totally draconian pressures to keep the cockpit off limits. I do so wish UK and US authorities would be more realistic with their security concerns. Sadly, these administrations (like so many these days) are managed by totally inept and incompetent morons!

[barit1]

But they are very good at protecting us from 80-year-old ladies with deadly shoes!:rolleyes:

[Rainboe]

An indication of location of the event would have been helpful. And posting in Questions forum rather than R & N.

[Max Angle]

The rules in the UK are pretty strict, a few non-pilots are allowed such as company engineers, ATC staff and air accident investigators etc. They may not "visit" the flightdeck but must be there from start to finish. To be honest I feel the world has changed and even if the rules in the UK were relaxed I can't see many pilots wanting to invite complete strangers to the flightdeck anyway, in hindsight it probably never was a very good idea however interesting it was for the visitors.

[Rainboe]

I agree. I have to say over the years there have been several occasions where people who asked to vist the FD started making my hair stand on end and I was thinking what was the best way to get them out quickly. It becomes apparent for whatever reason they are not 'right' or they start saying bizarre things and suddenly you feel uneasy with it. I am glad that officially access is now severely restricted, and if I fly anymore, I will keep to it. You just can't risk it anymore. Having said that, as far as family members that you know are concerned, or even retired colleagues, then they should be allowed. The answer is to give discretion back to the Captain.

[African Tech Rep]

I have seen this before – but less since 9/11.

I have even been that person – once on airline I didn’t even work for – I had just done one of my first owners inspections and something had come up I couldn’t fully explain, knowing I had to mention it in my report but also knowing that my knowledge wasn’t sufficient on entry to my flight home I gave the stewardess my card and asked if she would see if the pilot would let me ask a question – he agreed and I went the flight deck we discussed for a while and then suggested I stayed during TO and watched – after TO I went back eat my meal etc and then returned to the front for descent and landing so I could see the operation during the various phase of flight.

Sorry – I really can’t remember what is was except it was the operation of a flight instrument and as I was ex SMW I was “rusty” on how those worked.
(actually I’m also ex line etc – but it’s amazing how quickly you forget things your not involved with every day)

[BOAC]

punka - taking your post LITERALLY, to answer your quetsion - no, it is 'not normal' in UK registered airlines.

However, we cannot proceed much further with your post without a few details, or may I suggest you ask the airline concerned who can advise you of their restrictions on f/deck access?

[simfly]

What really frustrates me and others who loved to visit or enjoy the flight deck experience pre-flying duties, is the fact that those morons involved on "that day" didn't ask or arrange to visit the cockpit, they FORCED themselves in by in-humane ways, I personally think there's a difference... That said, lets hope that it never happens again.

[Techman]

Judging from the clues left by punkalouver, the right person to ask this question would perhaps be Mr. Spinetta

[punkalouver]

Bonjour,

Yes I am leaving a clue or deux. It just seems that the timing of cockpit entry could be distracting to some as well as pax not being allowed to walk around during aircraft movement. Perhaps they were off duty flight crew. They appeared to be late 20's or early thirties. Would this bother you during pushback? As the cockpit door sat open for a few minutes in cruise I was thinking of a BA 747 in a 45° bank over Africa with pilots fighting a passenger for control. Remember that incident?

[JayeRipley]

Is it normal? It can be, I don't know the airline or route etc but air traffic controllers can arrange to be in the cockpit for aircrew famil. Whilst it is not necessary to view the whole flight, take off and landing can be good to watch, it gives us an idea of workload so that we don't keep hassling pilots for info when there is an emergency. These visits are arranged well in advance within the new security procedures. During controller training (UK), time was spent with BA learning how an airline operates, two such flights were available during the famil. course.

[foxmoth]

I can't see many pilots wanting to invite complete strangers to the flightdeck anyway,

Sounds like on this occasion they were probably known to the flight deck. Whilst I agree we should be more cautious over FD visits I think it is now a bit too overcautious:suspect:

[738Capt]

Pilots are NOT tour guides. They are charged with flying a very large jet with alot of people onboard.

There sole role is the safe flight of the aircraft, not to show Tony and his lovely wife Joyce from next door over the cockpit of a 747 at Fl370.

When I was a kid I was invited up to the cockpit of a Lufthanser 747-400 while in cruise. It was great fun but today there are too many crazed people to allow non-crew into the cockpit.