Post-PPL options

[FiddlerMax]

Hello all

I'm planning a PPL (probably an intensive course in the US, given my lack of spare time and our iffy weather..)

Now, I'm not really a $100 hamburger kind of person. My ideal would be to do a bit of touring a few times a year - perhaps three or four long weekends in France, for example, with pax. The question is, how affordable/realistic would this be? Part ownership of a reasonable aircraft with seems to be impossible for less than about £3000 a year (not to mention double that amount up front). Joining a club seems to limit you to your local area because they charge by the hour.

Am I being too pessimistic? I don't want to get my license and then end up lapsed or just hours-building in the local area.

Realistically, how much should I expect to be paying each year to put my ppl to good use?

Apologies if this has been answered ad nauseam in the past - my searches didn't turn up anything too relevant.

All advice gratefully received!

Happy flying,
Max

[DubTrub]

charge by the hour Yes, most do, but by the flying hour, usually with a minimum number of hours per day/week etc.

For example, if you took a plane for a long weekend, they might expect you to pay for a minimum of 2-3 hours flying time or so per day (but ask what your local club's rules are).

[ChampChump]

Hi Max
Welcome to the expensive, addictive world of recreational flying.

You'll get a lot better advice than mine, but I venture to suggest that having decided to get your PPL, you won't regret it, whichever way you decide to continue. There's nothing, but nothing, more rewarding.

As for your query, it all rather depends on how much flying you will be doing. If you find that 100 hours+ p.a. is feasible, ownership is a definite plus. It's never going to save you money (only staying on the ground will do that) but it offers accessibility, of course, freedom, more responsibility towards and understanding of the aircraft, not to mention a little bit of kudos!

I suspect many people find that time is a more serious consideration than money, when it comes to adding up the hours and balancing the books. If that sounds likely, hiring a club aeroplane will prove far more cost-effective and not necessarily restrict your flying very much. It's obviously down to the differences between clubs and pseudo-clubs and there's probably no limit on the research you could do on that subject, aided and abetted by the pprunites' contributions.

I started out with a numble SLMG rating, added Group A, bought a touring motor glider and rented a Cub and C150 depending on where I was. A very satisfactory arrangement until I fell in love with the Champ. Now I fly the socks off her when I can and consider every penny well spent. By the way, I've never added up what I spend on flying. I use the 'live in a hovel, drive a tatty automobile' rationale.

If continental touring is in the plan, some sort of ownership is more likely to allow days/ weeks away. Shared or sole ownership is probably as big a decision as what you want to fly. There are so many options from a few thousand upwards that would all get you cross-channel (and back, hopefully).

I'm not trying to add to your concerns, but the biggest single issue around here in the south is hangarage, so if you can get that one sorted out first, the rest is easy! I forgot to look where you're based so forgive me if this doesn't apply.

At this stage, pre-PPL, you could do worse than keep searching pprune (try hiring/buying) and talking to as many pilots as you can. We're such an opinionated lot that you'll soon decide that your own views are far superior.

The important thing is to go fly, ENJOY it, make no rash decisions while you're doing so and see how you feel when you've got that precious PPL.
Oh, and grab any freebies going in small aeroplanes.

Have fun!

[Whirlybird]

Max,

I'm not quite sure how you've worked out your figures.

Firstly, as Dubtrub says, clubs charge by the flying hour. Many are happy to let you take an aircraft away for a weekend, or even longer, if you put 2-3 hours per day on it. Some aren't so shop around.

When it comes to part ownership, you ought to be able to get something for around £3000 up front, and about £50 a month and £50 per flying hour. Rates vary, but that's a good average. That's £600 per year plus your flying, not £3000!!!! I suspect you're either looking at some very expensive aircraft, or very small groups. A group of 10, or even more, will still give you good availability, because most PPLs really don't fly much. I know someone in a group of 20 who flies pretty much when he wants. You'd need to do your research before you joined a group of course, but you ought to be able to find one that works for you.

Having said that, flying is never going to be cheap. :( So it depends if you want to do it.

[Gerhardt]

If you plan to take friends with you a few times a year you really want to make a hamburger run at least once a month and make a trip around the pattern at least once or twice a month in addition to that. Stay in good practice or your skills slide and you're not quite as comfortable with your skills.
And it really is a LOT of fun!

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Fly when you're on holiday.

Wherever you happen to be, there's a reasonable chance that there's a flying school nearby with an instructor who at least vaguely sort-of speaks English. Hire a four seater for an hour or two, let the instructor do the boring radio and nav whilst you fly, put a couple of kids or wives or something in the back. Legally this is a flying lesson so you don't need to take your licence with you, be checked out or anything, but of course you can log the time Pu/t.

I've done several such trips, most recently seeing pretty well the whole of Slovenia in an hour and a half (and spending the next few days following on the ground those parts of the flight that we hadn't already covered).

[B9]

'put a couple of kids or wives or something in the back. Legally this is a flying lesson'

Are you allowed to take passengers on a flying lesson?

[englishal]

Are you allowed to take passengers on a flying lesson?
yes

[FiddlerMax]

Whirly - I think you may be right in saying I have been looking at small groups. Most of the adverts I've seen on the web have been for one-third to one-sixth shares. I will definitely look into larger groups now.

Gertrude - Nice suggestion. My imagination has been working overtime on that one!

Gerhardt - of course you're right about that, my only concern was that my flying would amount to nothing more than practice, not having the money for more ambitious projects!

Thank you everyone for your replies - especially CC - I think my fears have mostly been set to rest. Now I just have to get studying and pick a school... oh, and start saving ;-)