How do you order your fuel qty?

[JP4]

Hi all,

I learned a long time ago that Kilograms was the logical measure for ordering fuel. In France, the refueller don't want to touch the switches of the refuelling bay, and worse, they don't want to use the fuel gauges at their disposal. No sir, they want you to order fuel in liters, and the only thing they look is their truck gauge!!!
Yesterday one of those gentlemen even refused to come in the cockpit to bring the refuelling form..."he's not paid to climb the ladder"!!!!!!
Last one: a collegue ordered 8 tons. Do you understand 8 tons total fuel? Probably yes! but here the guy translated 8 tons in liters...10000ltrs and fuelled the aircraft with 8 tons more than the fuel left with all the consequences...
...Our D.O. is going to modify our SOP's to oblige us to order in liters!
Ok we are responsible for all operations on our planes but where's the limit?

Thanks for your comments.

[BOAC]

JP4 - I assess the 'competence'/nationality/grasp of English of the refueller and either ask for 'xxxkg' (final) or 'yyylitros por favor' etc etc. Also watch the bowser gauge where a 'tad' of suspicion exists and ensure:-

a) the water check is shown to you
b) the bowser gauge reads zero at start
c) the invoiced figure agrees with the bowser gauge reading

....and hang around and watch if if doubt:D

[westhawk]

Where I work, we order fuel in the units displayed on the pump meter installed on the delivery vehicle. Gallons or litres, litros, etc.. Alternatively, I may say to pump 'til it stops and then check with me before disconnecting if I want to monitor from the cockpit and shut off the re-fueling from there. The responsibility for proper fuel loading rests with us, the flight crew. If we had fuel load selectors at the fueling panel, I would either set it myself or check where it has been set. We monitor the entire process to the level that seems prudent under the circumstances. Their job to fuel, and ours to make sure it's done right! In our small company, the ops manual only requires that we supervise the process to the extent necessary to ensure safe and proper fueling per our company guidelines. All as it should be IMHO. Obviously, some outfits might find it more expedient to use different methods and personnel to accomplish the same thing. As ever, final responsibility for ensuring the proper quantity is aboard before takeoff rightfully rests with the crew no matter who saw to the fueling.

Best regards,

Westhawk

[alexban]

We don't order it,we just let them know they can start fuelling,and we'll monitor and switch off the a/c fueling switches.Then signal them it's ok,they may disconnect.The f/o signs and receives the receipt.
We do verify the water check,and do the fuel order file to verify the right amount of fuel is in the tanks.

[Ignition Override]

Is the airport a new destination for your company (or a charter?), or is the fueler brand new? Either more than one company fuels planes, or somebody is new. Is it a standard procedure to use gallons or pounds?

Does your company have either a Safety Rep. as part of a pilot union, or is there a mgmt person who wears the "safety hat"? Would it also help to file a report which might lead to better standardization? Show your DO a description of the 767 which glided into a racetrack just after the aircraft was fueled with a new procedure, such as your company's upcoming conversion.

What do European airlines do about fueling in Britain?

[Farmer 1]

I recall an incident several years ago. Memory's like a - thingy, but I think I remember some of the salient bits.

Charter flight from somewhere in Europe; flight delayed, crew desperate to refuel and get cracking for all the usual reasons. Captain shouts to CP, "Tell the refueller 600!" then dashes off to do his own duties.

Problem with the aircraft fuel gauges, dipstick not used. Result: obvious, really; silence from the engines at some time in the flight, and a forced landing in a field, fortunately without serious injuries.

No pontificating here, we've all been there, at least I have, and we all know how overpowering get-homeitis can be.

As I remember, the captain was screaming for the refueller to be thrown into gaol for not doing his job, conning the airline etc. when he had done exactly as requested, i.e. he had put 600 into the tanks. Litres, of course, not gallons, or anything else.

So, if any refueller refuses to do anything other than refuel, you can hardly blame him, even if he is French. It's not his job, and to expect him to do so is being unreasonable and unprofessional.

I fly a short-range machine, and many of the trips are at maximum weight and minimum fuel, so being accurate with the fuel is crucial on both counts. We use the gauges to calculate fuel required, divide that figure by 0.8, then by 2, and tell the refueller that amount in each tank. Then we monitor the gauges during the refuelling, and compare the reading with the refueller's gauge.

On a small machine we're not talking about tons of the stuff, of course, and the process does not take very long. What they do on the bigguns I've no idea.

I've never flown in the U.S., and I don't remember a refuelling system graduated in anything other than litres, and I can't imagine that ever changing.

Regardless, it can be a very painful lesson to get the numbers wrong; you end up being either too heavy, or too light. It's a situation where being a pedant can be forgiven.

[mbcxharm]

In our company away from base we go and manipulate the refuelling panel ourselves. At home base the engineer and refueller do it between themselves once you've told them how much you want. It never occurred to me that other companies did it differently...you live and learn...