Bmi flight supervisor

[j2o]

Anyone out there know about pennies, rosters and interveiws?

thanks in advance.

[6chimes]

money aint good but aint that bad either.

about 1200 1400 per month dependant on nightstops, which some get them all and some get non.

rosters are printed 10 weeks in advance but you have to call crewing after every duty to pick up changes which leaves you wide open for massive disruption to your life. You get around 200 planned duty hours per month printed on your roster. Mostly 4 sector days. Forget flexibility for your own priorities the management dont think your life is worth considering, they have something called gatekeepers where a manager will consider your request and either deny it or allow it....keep in mind the word gatekeeper and visualise a Rottweiller. Got it? Its short haul so that means do as your told the operation must come first which is only right but they are running so tight on crewing levels there is no room for flexibility.

On the upside you might get promoted to a cabin services performance manager within the year as the company dont want any old hands who might rock the boat. Its a great place for those that are new and know no better, for the senior people its an insulting boot camp. But the crew are wicked and if you keep well away from managers you will have a great time.

The interview wont be that hard they are so desperate they are probably doing house calls by now.

6

[twisted-diamonddolly]

well said 6 chimes....

You'll spend your whole life working with min crew and be constantly training. Nightstops are few and far between and are only min rest ( 10 hrs in hotel) 12 hours if your really lucky. You'll be so knackered by the time you get to your hotel that you'll just go to bed anyway.

You'll have constant roster disruption, never have a standby at home again and if anything goes wrong on your flight you'll be hauled up and grilled by nazi like management who treat you like a confused child.

Have more than 12 days sick and you'll go into "AMP" which means your on your way out of the airline and can't go for promotion or longhaul ( which is mickey mouse anyway and not worth doing eg LAS with only a 40 min break - 11 hour duty).

Crewing dept will try and get away with making you work illegal rosters if they think you don't know the rules.

Speak out or get envolved with the union and the airline will go out of their way to ruin your life.

PLUS side well guess its like being in the trenches in WWI, the crew look after each other and are really good fun. you have to be otherwise you'd just cry.

run forest RUN!!!!!:{

[Little Blue]

Twisted.......( A very apt user name, if your last post is to be believed).
Just one point to raise.....
"Crewing dept will try and get away with making you work illegal rosters if they think you don't know the rules."..
What a crock of.....
You know that all lines are recorded and any deviation away from CAP371 would result in HUGE trouble for the airline.
Can you name one instance when you worked illegally, thanks to crewing?
You know, I don't work in Crewing, but see both sides of the crew/crewing issue and I constantly tell crew that if they could only see what happens in crewing, then most of the conflict would fall away... and I say the same to crewing, as well. We do all work for the same company, don't we?

[twisted-diamonddolly]

I'm not talking about CAP371, we as cabin crew are governed by our Agreement for Service (AFS), this is a legal contract entered into by the company and the crew union which sets out limitations on types of duty, duty hours, max duty hours, rest requirements etc... it is MUCH stricter than CAP371 but crewing on HUNDREDS of occassions in my 14 years flying with bmi have tried to break the agreement . Yes they have never broken CAP371( technically) BUT they have certainly broken the rules of the AFS which is what we should be working to.

I know crewing have a hard job, basically because they don't have enough crew to cover the program ( due to cost) but thats not my fault..

and I'm only twisted because bmi made me that way..:p

[Little Blue]

..and nor is it their fault.....There are a fair few ex-cabin crew working in crewing, yer know.
The AFS....ah, don't get me started on that little beauty. I take it you've been on lates, tonight.
Well, I'm on nights at the Happy Hall and with only crewing to keep me company!
Its a helluva life ! ;)

[twisted-diamonddolly]

well you get into your sleeping bag and catch up on your Dr Who annuals... oh and mind that shiny head of yours little blue. maybe a small knitted hat would help to keep out the cold?

expecting massive roster disruption now for sure ;)

[Little Blue]

Was it really that obvious .........doh !
Better change me name !

[DRJ]

Agh Twisted nice to see you found time to post before leaving bmi for the greener fields of BA.

Have more than 12 days sick and you'll go into "AMP" which means your on your way out of the airline

NOW NOW Richard youve had your share of sickness and your still here ! NO ONE has pushed you out ! .
Infact i seem to recall you being treated exceptionaly well !

lets not let the truth get in the way of a good post !


;)

[expelair]

Well Ladies this sounds like a private battle.
My understanding of CAP371 is that it is far more limiting than the constantly changing AFS. Also no AFS is legal until all crew have been informed of the changes regardless of what the company and union say.
You cannot change the rules without telling everyone what the changes are.

[twisted-diamonddolly]

DRJ,

I think you lot up in the hall have a completely different view of things than the actual operating crew. bmi was a great airline to work for BUT things have deteriorated very quickly over the last couple of years...esp since you last set foot on an aircraft in uniform DRJ!

I have never been in AMP!! and yes my manager is exceptional but she is a one off and unfortunately not representative.(and if I could take her to BA I would)

Ahg if only all departments were as professional and as accommodating as charter eh? will miss my charters...but not getting up at 0345 to go to CFU!!!

big sloppy one.

EXPELAIR

our AFS is published and all crew have a copy and does not constantly change. It sets out much tougher rules for crewing to follow so is better for the crew than CAP371 which really sets out the MAX duty hours and MIN rest requirements. Most low cost airlines operate to CAP371 hence their crews work longer and have less rest. Sure bmi would LOVE to work to CAP371. Thank god for unions...

[Little Blue]

RC...
Didn't get yr PM as me inbox was chocker !
Another one off to BA?
How many years have you been here?.. You'll be telling me next that JPS is leaving...Now that would be a disaster.
Good luck !
Ops monkey

[twisted-diamonddolly]

Yup Rich I'm off to BA worldwide LGW the beach fleet!! after 14 years the tunnel is finally finished and it comes up in Cranebank!

[6chimes]

Hi guys,

I see that J20 has fled from the scene after reading that lot of posts. Better to know the truth before you enter the Lions den and find the door to the cage locked behind you. You wont ever be able to thank us but you have had a lucky escape.

I think I got the job cleaning tables in Mcdonalds, so I am on the way up....

O and by the way I have worked outside of CAP 371 a few times before I wised up...................the tapes....now which dusty cupboard are they kept in. Lost the key?

6

[The Royal Family]

If Twisted D is who I think it is well good luck to you in BA. You have made me laugh on more than one occasion over the years (pa's, tricks on the crew)
A sad day for Midland when you walk out the door.
I wish I could be there when crewing phone you up while at Cranebank asking you to come in for a duty.;)
Anyway it's nice to see BA have relaxed the weight limit......
x

[twisted-diamonddolly]

Anyway it's nice to see BA have relaxed the weight limit......


royal family... thanks for that, you must be quite senior to risk such a comment..:D :D :D

[6chimes]

I thought weight requirements are in proportion to height...................................................... ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ...............to a 737! it certainly seems that way with some cabin crew! Maybe we should all go lo cost that way at the least starvation diet might help some:)

By the way Twisted, your not that big only your personality! Sad to see you go...take me with you.

6

[j2o]

Yep 6chimes, I've definatly made my mind up about Bmi! Thanks for your honest veiws. Been speaking to friends no one has a good word to say about the Bmi. I thought I had it bad at my present company, apparently not that bad. However I can't wait to get out. But hey, there are lots of companies recruiting. Life is too short to be unhappy!

[The Royal Family]

Even the senoir managers are leaving Midland, gulp...:eek:

This week's goodbye to KB must be going to join EW..

Come back DWS all is forgiven...

[Rescue 137]

Dont forget its going to get worse as they are going to start charging for stuff on Long Haul in November.For the few routes that Midland does Long Haul then this cannt be good news for them or the crew.

[twisted-diamonddolly]

KB's gone!!! the head of longhaul. obviously they asked her to compromise her standards... mmm dark times ahead but also maybe some of those senior crew who KB stopped getting into longhaul will get a chance now.

[Caudillo]

Read the title of the post on the "latest threads" part of the main page and assumed it was referring to a captain!

[6chimes]

Hi guys.

KB aint going voluntarily. i gather that her handling of the precious few (her interpretation not mine or bmi) and who can join them has not gone down well. Personally i hope she ends up living in a box under a railway arch.

Now here is a case for euthanasia.

6

[flybywire]

"Crewing dept will try and get away with making you work illegal rosters if they think you don't know the rules."..

I don't know about bmi, but be assured that it happens more than you can imagine. (Not only with scheduling agreements but also with CAP371 rules!)

Both the two airlines I worked for before had this problem, they were so desperately short of crews that they would do anything, and deal with the consequences later on.

They would disrupt your rest for a start, and make you go on impossible trips just to save their backside (like rostering you 5 days on at the end of june and 4 days on at the beginning of july...as if ppl wouldn't notice that even if on different months it is still 9 duty days in a row! Or screwing you up between time zones, for example sending you on a 7 day-duty in the americas flying somewhere every day, followed by 15 hours off at home and then another 4-5 day trip to India this time) and to save some money (eg: not providing a hotel after a very long multi-sector duty before finishing with a "DHDing on company aircraft" when clearly you still had to operate as crew as there wasn't anybody else to do the safety bit for you!!!)

I have the proof that things like this happen and can discuss anything (privately) if you're interested. I just hope that bmi isn't as bad as what I have seen and experienced on my skin!!

Also to notice that I have seen many crews accepting illegal duties just "because I really need the money".

Take care you guys.....look after yourselves xxx

FBW:)

[Level2]

Well that certainly didn't happen at FC did it FBW!

[flybywire]

Well that certainly didn't happen at FC did it FBW!

Happened in both airlines I previously worked for.

[6chimes]

FBW

Everything you have said happens and in particular the DHDing. Saw that last week!

Maybe just maybe there is only one big crewing department somewhere................................................... .

The problem is in my view, airline management in the UK have gotten complacent with safety, we are pretty safe these days not a lot of major incidents have happened over the last few years (9/11 exempt thats a security issue! before you all remind me). Our managers are increasingly from accounting departments, its the bottom line, they stretch the risk assessments and bean counting. And quite frankly in my humble opinion from one who works on the frontline, they are often taking huge risks and living on borrowed time. Fingers crossed.


6

[flybywire]

6chimes I couldn't agree more!!

I know for a fact that the CAA is silently watching and eagerly waiting to put their hands on one of the airlines I worked for, it's a matter of time and then we'll see what excuse they come up with!!

As for one screwing department somewhere....you might be right there too...:}
Do you know if bmi use AIMS?

FBW:)

[flybywire]

Jettesen wrote:

I've never known anyone as full of **** as you FBW. That trip to americas followed by india with 15 hours rest is complete utter crap.. the flight crew would certainately have NOT allowed you to operate that duty, and they wouldn't have either, so good imagination you have there

First: PLEASE Moderate your language. Somebody who speaks like this shouldn't even be allowed on a public discussion forum.

Second: I still have that roster and I would be willing to scan it if not that it is indeed a public forum and I don not want somebody to get into trouble. (Crewing controllers have no fault, as they work hard and are stressed to their eyeballs, and just do what they're told to.)

I asked a skipper for advice as soon as the roster came out and his reply was "It's totally illegal. If you want you can call crewing and point it out. However if you're short of money, you have two long haul trips in a row, just don't tell anybody." (Cheers mate!)

Of course I called crewing straight away, told them I knew the rules so they gave me another day off (which I had to have in the first place anyway) took me off the India flight straight away and apologised.
On the System you could then read, in red, next to the amendment, the reason "as pointed out by the crew themselves"

So glad I am out of that.

6chimes, did anybody during you training told you where to find the rules and to learn them? When CC are not aware of their working/rest rights everything becomes messier and more difficult.

[6chimes]

FBW

To be fair they did. But hey when its all so new and your new it can be a bit confusing.

Also your more interested in giving a good impression to your new employers and learning your job not playing at being Arthur Scargill! I honestly didnt really know what flying limitations meant when i started. It was only as time went on I thought "hang on, the bleeders are having a laugh at my expense, learn the ropes mate". Its a game of Cat and mouse and we aint even the mouse........................................!

6

[flybywire]

6chimes.....I know exactly where you're coming from!!!

I couldn't agree with you more. :(

[Level2]

The problem is FBW that people get a bit sick and tired of crewing or screwing as you call them being bashed. I've worked in a crewing dept for 10 years and am privileged to work with some very talented people who know the job inside out. To be accused of creating such unbelievable rostering patterns just p's me off a bit.
AIMS is not 100% fool proof at Rostering stage so anything you find that's not legal will be rectified the moment it's pointed out and it won't have been put there on purpose. AIMS at a Crewing stage is different and anything illegal will be rejected by the system therefore it's not possible (in the airline I work for ) for crewing to make you work an illegal roster. More crew should take the time to learn the rules that govern their lives.

[Airbus215]

ref the messages from twisted and 6chimes re the departure of KB and her supposed standards ......................... to the best of my knowledge KB's standards are those of the company and the other senior managers. Am disappointed that it is seen as personal and that you are wishing her an untimely end. Suppose it is as a result of not making l/haul last time but when so many wish to go to faraway places there has to be a criteria. Obviously BA don't have same criteria .............................. maybe 6chimes best follow the example of twisted and seek pastures new.

Have asked others if KB was in fact 'assisted to leave' ................. answer a resounding NO. Perhaps worth asking her why she has chosen to go!

[flybywire]

More crew should take the time to learn the rules that govern their lives.

Definitely Level2. I agree.

However, especially during the summer period and at certain bases, some airlines (including my ex) have a real problem.
Having had access to the system in the past - and knowing certain individuals who would do anything to suck up to the crewing department - I can say that people do fly on illegal duties at times unless the individuals, knowing the rules, call up and refuse to comply.

It is not the crew controller's fault if they have millions of changes for the crew (both FD and CC) every single day because they don't have enough people to cover sicknesses, delays, tech problems etc. It is not their fault if the company's policy is "Deal with it as and when". I felt sorry so many times for the poor guys up in MAN. Not for those ones that haven't got a clue thoguh, and leave the next shift/supervisors to clear up the mess!!

I still remember some of their voices,names...I still occasionally talk to them through a certain pilot friend of mine.

By the way, has Sandra (Zandra) finally found the pilot of her dreams :}

Level2...........it's frustrating for both sides.

Take care

FBW

[twisted-diamonddolly]

Airbus 215

I don't wish anything bad for KB , personally I like her. As for the rest of your comments you are obviously based up in Toad Hall and have NO IDEA of whats been going on with regards to LONGHAUL RECRUITMENT! Enough to say that it certainly wasn't fair or based on ability. More like who wouldn't rock the boat or was the biggest bum lick.....

As for BA's standards being less than bmi.....DREAM ON!!!!!!!!

[Airbus215]

Hey Twisted ....

I know you wish KB no harm but then it wasnt you that hoped she was under a railway arch in a box ....

Or advocated Euthanasia !. (Nasty 6 chimes very nasty ....)

Im surprised its taken so long for news of KB's departure to filter out, Her decison being taken on her wish to explore pastures new some weeks ago.

Having done some digging I can assure you the decision was hers and hers alone and is driven by her personal circumstances rather than jumping or being assisted.

Of course "Galley FM" now turns its attention to KB's probable replacement ..........

Rule me out .........

American tan tights and a gold blouse never suited me.....


As for being based at the hall yep correct but then i also spend a fair amount of time at LHR so yeah i hear the comments....

;)

[6chimes]

Sorry to offend you A215

just happens you reap what you sow. maybe the person is not bad, more likely just incompetent and a fool, it doesnt matter which if the result for those below is sub standard treatment. maybe euthanasia is a little OTT, but what about all the people over the years who have had their careers adversly affected by bad management? sympathy and heartfelt best wishes for the future? NO WAY. deep resentment doesnt fade away. So no to the box under the railway arch at your request, a high street door way instead. (joke OK !!!!!). O and dig deeper and you will find more to it.

6

[Airbus215]

Hey 6


Pleased you re thought the Euthansia and railway arch !

Not too sure there will be many shop doorways for KB in her new pastures but hey !

I understand how you feel re the past, But believe me having been there I can see it from both crew and management view points.

Oh and Ive dug so deep I came out at Quantas and believe me theres really not anything to the rumours KB really has just decided to move on and take a new direction.

Galley FM really has got this 1 wrong.

Now may be that gold blouse and hat band might just suit me afterall.... Only joking !








:cool:

[twisted-diamonddolly]

does anyone in charter do any work?

[DRJ]

Yep Richard we all do !

As you very well know !

But where did charter get dragged in to this Thread....?

[twisted-diamonddolly]

airbus 215... A321 charter config/ based in toad hall/ in the know/ slightly bitchy.... who could this be?

[6chimes]

Is there any reason why you guys from the hall keep using real names? Particularly since its on work pc s and on company time.

Any chance of you joining in the spirit of pprune and airing your views and opinions without naming people...if you want to do that nip next door and call him from the crewing phone..its got all the contact information you need!

And i will say again with just a little more of a hint.......Why would a manager who has finally got themselves exactly where they wanted to be and managing a long haul base that is only going to expand out of LHR, leave? After taking years to get there, and after considerable criticism and investigation of their ability, not only from below decks but from above!

Sorry guys it doesnt wash.

Will wait for a reply......in office hours! :)

6

[acbus1]

Is there any reason why you guys from the hall keep using real names? Particularly since its on work pc s and on company time.
I think we can leave the readers to analyse that. Something to do with character, integrity, intelligence etc.

By the same token and for the same reasons, why do such people engage in posts (elsewhere on PPRuNe) which merely exchange greetings etc. There's a Private Message system in place for such trivia.


Any chance of you joining in the spirit of pprune and airing your views and opinions without naming people...if you want to do that nip next door and call him from the crewing phone..its got all the contact information you need!
Or use the Private Message system in place for such trivia.


And I will say again with just a little more of a hint.......Why would a manager who has finally got themselves exactly where they wanted to be and managing a long haul base that is only going to expand out of LHR, leave?
More pertinent, why would anyone want to stay in an outfit on it's way into the sewage system?


The problem is in my view, airline management in the UK have gotten complacent with safety, we are pretty safe these days not a lot of major incidents have happened over the last few years (9/11 exempt thats a security issue! before you all remind me). Our managers are increasingly from accounting departments, its the bottom line, they stretch the risk assessments and bean counting. And quite frankly in my humble opinion from one who works on the frontline, they are often taking huge risks and living on borrowed time. Fingers crossed.
As each day passes, I become increasingly amazed at the sheer luck enjoyed by this outfit.

Maybe it's like buses.....none for ages, then a whole load of them all at once.

And when the inevitable does happen I will say "I told you so" (on loads of other threads).



The thread opening question (if you remember that far back) was "Anyone out there know about pennies, rosters and interveiws?"

Wonder if the originator is still interested in joining after reading the replies? :rolleyes:

[twisted-diamonddolly]

Yeah DRJ stop using names especially when you have no evidence. People might think your trying to get a certain well loved and respected crew member into trouble. Think long and hard . . follow PPRuNES rules:mad:

[alexWarsaw]

sorry form interrupting this debate, but I have one question regarding BMI flight supervisor salary:

I was told by recruitment officer that annual basic salary for this position is 13.778 £. Monthly paid money consists of basic + London weighting + allowances, so
how much I can take home monthly after tax including everything?

[6chimes]

Have a look on the second post on the first page.

6

[alexWarsaw]

ok, does this salary increase after a specific period? If yes - when and how much?

[6chimes]

yes it does. your salary goes up each year exept the third and fifth by about 30 a month. again it really depends on nightstops.

just read the threads and decide if you want to take it. i kid you not it is as we say. you will notice the only ppruners not agreeing are management, non flyers and not LHR based short haul.

6

[goodgirl]

Dreadful salary for a no1 (£1200-£1400) working that many sectors!I didn't realise BMI paid poor salaries

[6chimes]

yep they sure are low, and you have to clean the aircraft...we have even been given a dustpan and brush ( i kid u not ). thats why around 200 crew have walked in the last 2 years, mostly to other airlines (ba), some new crew dont even last their first month, many are just waiting to be given start dates for ba. not many wants to stay, you find it hard to find anyone not leaving, looking or waiting for part time (refering to lhr). maybe management will realise they have a crisis on their hands and look to themselves for answers and do something positive and without strings........time to up the doseage

6

[alexWarsaw]

I am glad, to have a chance to read and write on this forum as it gives me the sight into problem.

Personally I don't know anyone from bmi cabin crew around me to ask for advice, so I share my doubts with all of you ...

I wouldn't like to make a mistake moving to UK and working for the wrong company.
If the average salary for supervisor is 1400£, I guess is not very much, as I would have to pay for renting a room (ap. 400£ if I am not wrong), telephone bills (how much?), city transportation pass (how much?), food (how much?), possible medical visits as I've heard that bmi doesn't offer free medicals for their workers (how much for particular visit?) .... and finally how much would I save to take back to Poland...? Probably not much more than I save now.

I counted on sth not less than 1800£, but probably I didn't consider a UK tax....

There really must be sth wrong with the company, if almost all voices are against...

Meybe it isn't that bad with my current company as I thought, if we still have full free service on board, not have to clean the aircraft (nobody is even thinking about this), can choose our days off for the next month as we like, exchange our flights, almost never exceed working hours (apart from unpredictible events), usually do only 2 sectors a day (like WAW-VIE-WAW which is totally 5 hours, I have 4-sector flights no more than 3 times a month).
I only wanted to earn more money and be promoted within the new company... but now I am not sure if I can make it with bmi conditions living in London....

I count on your suggestions.
If anyone has enough patience to answer some more of my questions about supervisor position then please pm me.

thanx.

[6chimes]

Hi Alex

There most certainly is something wrong with the company.

They even suspended (5 weeks) and disciplined someone for sending a text message to some colleagues with content they didnt like!

come and join us..........by the way I like your rosters and days of policy, any chance of a job with you.

6

[LOTflyer]

Alex,

Being your company mate and also having been interviewed for No 1 with BMI I definitelly advise you NOT to join them. The salary is good if you consider spending it in Warsaw, but not in London. The quality of living with our LOT's salary in Warsaw is much better than in LHR, even fying as regular cabin crew not Purser. But I really understand your willingness to b promoted....

LOTflyer