OK Mac fans, here's your chance

[Binoculars]

Retirement is in my sights. I have two tax deductible laptops left in me. I am fed up with Windows XP and its clunky file management system, and I am happy to take the word of all the Mac nerds that their system really is much more, well, whatever. User-friendly for want of a better word. I'm toying with the idea, as I have been for some time, of changing to Apple. Software compatibility is the main issue I suppose, but also network compatibility with my Dell desktops.

Are all the problems solved these days? Can someone with thousands of word.doc files tracing back to the days of DOS transfer seamlessly to the world of Apple? Is there really a justification for paying, let's face it, almost twice the price of a similarly equipped Windows machine, or is it a fashion statement?

Can somebody please direct me to the best site for answering all the questions that a long term Windows user would have in relation to switching?

[PPRuNe Towers]

Don't do it - they're rubbish:} :}

Regards,
Rob


PS - If you go to strange, naughty places on the internet you can download a fully functioning version of the Mac operating system for intel. That's right - for your PC and in the 'things you weren't supposed to know' category there has been an intel version of all 4 generations of Mac OSX so far.

However, like the early days of linux, it's a bit fussy about peripherals - but in this case because that's how Apple keep it simple and their customers have no idea what things like video drivers are.

If that is a problem there's an intermediary piece of software (vm-ware I think) that mimics standard hardware so OSX will work.

PPS Word for Mac is probably the most bug free, stable and elegant full fat program Redmond has ever produced.

[Saab Dastard]

Bino,

Here's a link you may find useful:

http://www.macwindows.com/tutfiles.html

A few things to think about - Windows Vista is now in Beta, and MS are promising a new file system (although it is unlikely to make it into the first release of Vista). Vista will still allow much greater flexibility in organising data than current Win O/S - allegedly - so it may be worth reading about what MS have in the pipeline.

Bear in mind that Apple recently announced that it is switching from IBM Power PC to intel processors. Add to that the fact that OSX is basically UNIX and what have you got? x86 Linux, with a proprietary interface, effectively. At least with Linux you get to choose what hardware and even what bits of the software you want! Yes, I know there is more to it than that ;-)

While I have a great deal of respect for Apple's reliability, stemming as it does from a completely closed, proprietary hardware and software architecture, I have always mistrusted on principle an O/S that ejected a floppy disk by dragging it to the bin!

Seriously, having been brought up with the strict discipline of file structures (files in folders in drawers in filing cabinets in rooms), the Apple MAC approach seemed to be "just open the door and chuck the file in!"

My cousin bought a MAC laptop a few years ago and initially thought it was great, so easy to use. Now she has bought a Wintel laptop. Why? Because it was impossible to get the software she needed for the MAC. That is likely to be the most irritating aspect of MAC ownership - that , and paying over the odds for almost every (proprietary) thing.

SD

[The Voice]

Binos .. Reddo used to seriously bag me for years about being a mac user .. until she recently bought one .. may I suggest chatting with her .. she would be the best/recent convert to the other side.

[redsnail]

Ahhh yes, but I don't drink much. :E

Macs are pure genius I have to admit. As soon as I feasibly can I am going to consign FRED to Checkers games desires and buy myself a G5 Imac... Pure drool factor. Will probably upgrade the cute lil iBook after the Intel change over and definitely want either a Nano or a new full power iPod. :D

I am a convert. :ok:

Bino's (SM's looking very well) I can't answer your q re ye olde anciente DOS word stuff. Office for Mac is amazing though. Incredibly stable and easy to use programme. Note, very few if any viruses are written for the mac.

Yes they are a tad on the exy side but you do get what you pay for. With a mac it just works. If you're a tinkerer and like to fiddle with graphics cards and the like and the following bun fight with getting the drivers to work then you'll find the mac.. well, boring. However, if you like things to work as advertised... mac's the go. No question.
Note, the laptops (eg the ibook) bang for buck wise is bloody hard to beat.

[ORAC]

Tao of Mac (http://the.taoofmac.com/space/HOWTO/Switch%20To%20The%20Mac)

Apple & Intel, what you need to know (http://www.macworld.com/2005/06/features/intelfaq/index.php)

Mac OS X Tiger for Intel (x86) (http://www.osx86.theplaceforitall.com/howto/)

[Evo]

I've just finished my first year with a Mac (G5 iMac, OS X Tiger with a gig of memory) and quite frankly, it's brilliant. Wierd for a couple of weeks while you find out where everything is, then if you want to just use a computer it's getting near perfection.

If you're a hobbyist who wants to build it, tweak the hardware and rebuild it again, then it's probably not for you. Personally I have to faff around with the bl**dy things all day at work, when I get home I want my computer to just work. And it does :)

[Binoculars]

Not a hobbyist at all, Evo. Something that just works sounds good to me! Saab Dastard's link seems to indicate there is no problem with cross-platform networking as a basic principle, so Mrs B can stick with the Windows computer.

But what about my MS Office files? It appears AppleWorks is the default word processing software on new Macs. Are MS Office files fully compatible with the basic software or will I have to buy Word for Mac?

Lastly, I was just looking at the G5 iMac on the apple website. They don't show a case; is everything really contained in that one piece?

[ORAC]

Everything is built into the monitor. It is recommended to get the Bluetooth and Airport build to order options at purchase as upgrading is difficult. The graphics cannot be upgraded at all. If using a Bluetooth mouse/keyboard, the only thing to plug in is the power lead.

[WeatherJinx]

ORAC
Both of the latest iMacs have Airport Extreme (Wireless 802.11g) and Bluetooth 2.0 built in, so no need to add these to an order build any more.

Binos
The included AppleWorks 6 will work with Word files but they will lose formatting when opened. Once worked on, they can be saved as Word documents if required.

This is a satisfactory arrangement for some people, but I'd go for MS Office if you can. Micro$oft's Mac software is of a high standard and compatibility with PC versions of Office is pretty much seamless.

Cross-platform networking is pretty easy to set up in either direction. I'm currently running a 2 Ghz G5 iMac and a Dell Latitude X300* laptop running XP Pro side by side, with fast reciprocal links over a wireless network. They also share the same broadband connection via a wireless router with no issues.

Saab DNow she has bought a Wintel laptop. Why? Because it was impossible to get the software she needed for the MAC. What was your cuz trying to do? It must have been a real niche product she required. There are heaps and heaps of Mac programs for almost every application you can think of.

The only area where it's generally acknowledged that the Mac is lacking is games, although this is set to change with the Intel move. I'm not really a gamer so this doesn't affect me.

Jx
*Yes... even Macistas have to use them sometimes! :bored:

[Evo]

You don't have to search too far back to find posts by me querying if a Mac could be as good as the faithful claim, but after a year with one I really can't overstate how good I think they are as a general purpose computer. If all you want are the general tasks - internet, email, music, photos + video, word processing, that sort of thing - then it's a revelation. If you've got specialist software needs, like tweaking the hardware or are a dedicated games player, then it's probably not for you.

I have MS Office on the Mac, and have never had any problems with sharing files with Windows. Likewise, it just figured out the Windows LAN and connects to shared drives etc. without problems.

[Binoculars]

OK, thanks all. I'm borrowing an old iMac for a couple of weeks to play with and get a general feel for, but I can feel myself being swayed. Don't think Mrs B will be too impressed with the idea since a new Dell only arrived a few months ago. But those G5 iMacs are a lovely bit of kit, and if I can clean up a couple of kilometres of cables plugs and leads currently entangled on my desk and claim it's because of the new poota, well....... :8

Still bugs me that my trusty Office 97, which is all I could ever want as an office suite, will have to be replaced by an overpriced piece of M$ gear. Does anybody use Open Office for Mac and have any comments on it?

[drauk]

OpenOffice is okay. The Apple shop in London was pushing educational copies of Microsoft Office when I was in there a few months ago, saying that as "almost any qualified for one then you might as well just buy that". This wasn't an individual salesperson, this was in one of their theatre demos. It's about a £120 I think.

Which bits of Office do you actually use? "Pages" is much nicer for doing some types of word processing.

An old iMac might be a bit slow, so don't judge on that basis. And while the new G5 ones are great, don't underestimate the Mac Mini (with some extra memory perhaps) if you've got a decent screen already. It's so small that with luck Mrs B won't even notice you've bought it.

[Binoculars]

Thanks, Drauk, I was wondering about the Mac Mini. It's a little difficult on first glance to see what it lacks that the iMac has, but I'll certainly be chasing up on that. I'm particularly ignorant on the whole wireless concept and need to read up on Wireless for dummies before making any decision. Gee that inbuilt webcam on the latest iMac is a gimmick and a half, isn't it? ;)

I'll be using the borrowed iMac only to get a handle on the Mac way of doing everyday tasks, since I've never so much as sat in front of one. I know the G5 will be considerably upmarket.

Office? Look, to be quite honest, Word accounts for 90% of my requirements. I keep a few very basic spreadsheets on financial matters going back ten or twelve years, but if the truth be known AppleWorks would be more than adequate for them by a factor of about 100. Similarly for any database I might need to start. It's just all those thousands of Word files of mine, Mrs B's and all the Binoettes' school assignments etc. What is Pages? Is that on Office for Mac or on AppleWorks?

[ORAC]

OpenOffice Mac OS X (http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/) :O

[Binoculars]

I see. Thank you ORAC. It is rare to find such a masterpiece of nudge nudge wink wink talk. Most impressive, and thanks to Sun.

I am at present engaged in high level negotiations with a multi-national distributor of suitable Office equipment, and I am confident a suitable solution will be found. Thank you all for your help in that regard.

Now, off to research MiniMac. :ok:

[ORAC]

Reviews I have seen of the Mac Mini say it OK if you intend to reuse an existing monitor, keyboard, mouse etc, but it is cheaper to buy another Mac model rather than buy MiniMac and add the other components.

[WeatherJinx]

Binos

Pages (http://www.apple.com/iwork/pages/) is Apple's standalone word processor - part of their evolving iWork (http://www.apple.com/iwork/) project, (along with it's sibling Keynote (http://www.apple.com/iwork/keynote), a superb presentation app that in many ways is superior to PowerPoint, but still has some way to go to match it for versatility).

My feeling is that these two apps, together with an oft-rumored spreadsheet program (they have trademarked the name 'Numbers'), will eventually form the basis of a replacement for the ageing AppleWorks suite. This may take some time however - Apple is walking on eggshells wih this, so as not to p*iss off the Evil Empire - the loss of Office for Mac could cause a lot of damaging fallout for Jobs & Co.

[Binoculars]

Pages sounds perfect for my needs. AppleWorks would be more than ample to cover my database/spreadsheet requirements. But since I can't find any reference to Pages on iMac, I assume it's also an paid for extra?

[WeatherJinx]

you got it, unfortunately...:rolleyes:

I remember when i got my new iMac home a couple of months ago, eyeing the box to see if it was included (I hadn't bothered to check beforehand).

The disappointment when I found out it wasn't bundled in was soon compensated for by the inclusion of the wonderful Garageband (http://www.apple.com/garageband).

I'm sure you and the Binoettes will have a great time knocking some tunes out with this highly addictive little app ;)

[Binoculars]

Progress report.

Day one of possession of old iMac (G3 500mhz) complete with crappy mouse. By the living Harry it generates some heat!

I admit to being impressed when I plugged my T5 network cable from my second Windows computer into the Mac and it was immediately connected to the internet. Said old iMac also comes complete with Office for Mac, which has proven relatively seamless in reading all MS Word files except very early ones. A little more work on the mechanics of copying files could prove fruitful. :E Coming up will be an examination of the transferability of Excel files.

Still struggling with Finder, but for one day's play I'm impressed. Dear Lord, forgive me, for I think I am being tempted to the dark side. :uhoh:

[ORAC]

I was put off Macs when trying to keep a shed load going at HQ11Gp at Bentley Priory. The rest of the RAF had standardised on PCs and I had a load of monochrome Mac classics and laser printers I had to cannibalise to try and keep a network going.

The relief when I finally got to dump them and replace them with desktop PCs was wonderful.....

[Binoculars]

Ahh, I can well imagine, ORAC. Exactly the same feeling as if Mac's had taken over the world and you were left try8ing to cannibalise a system of PC's! Mind you, we've come a long way from monochrome mac's I think.

God help me, I'm sounding like a Mac apologist already and I've still got three PC's in my house. :uhoh:

[AppleMacster]

Bino's: Sounds like there isn't a copy of iWork on the Mac you have. A time-limited demonstration version of it is bundles with all new Macs, but the G3 you have is a little long-in-the-tooth now, so predates the package. It's only £49 to buy, though. You say you're struggling with the Finder: do you know if it is running OSX or System 9?

[Binoculars]

It's OSX. The struggle is just one of unfamiliarity after years of Windows Explorer. There is a concept, a big picture there that I just haven't grasped yet because the brain is reluctant to let go of old habits. I'm sure it will come. :8

[AppleMacster]

Binos: I understand competely. Trust me, it's a lot less painful coming to the Mac after years of Windows than vice versa! If you've any questions, just PM me.

AppleMacster

[redsnail]

Bino's welcome to the dark side. :D

I've just been wrestling with the lil iBook and my ADSL connection at home. Checkers had been giggling at me growling at the so called fool proof Mac.

It turns out it was a crappy phone line extension thingy on the phone filter. Nothing to do with the lil iBook at all.

Happy. :ok:

[WeatherJinx]

Reddo

er... shouldn't that be welcome from the dark side? ;) :p

[Binoculars]

The evaluation continues, and I remain impressed by lots of little niceties. Enough to know that when I buy another poota it will be a Mac but not as yet enough to go storming wildly off to the Mac shop with credit card flapping.

One thought occurred to me today. The old G3 (five years old) I've borrowed has two things stopping it from working perfectly as a home computer. Chiefly, the screen is stuffed, less importantly the CD player won't eject. It occurs to me to wonder what happens to the G5 iMac I buy tomorrow if in four or five years the screen gives it away in similar fashion? Going out and picking up a replacement monitor doesn't seem likely.

Even someone of my limited knowledge has managed to replace a hard drive, install an extra hard drive, replace RAM and install a new CD burner in the trusty old Wintel. I don't particularly WANT to be taking computers apart, and I'm relying heavily on online advice when I do, but I can do it.

So does my iMac become an expensive throwaway? :confused:

[WeatherJinx]

Binos

Mac or PC, you're in the same boat, given a like-for-like warrany. You're almost always going to be stuffed if you get an all-in-one and the monitor goes after warranty expiry, unfortunately. On the brighter side, I'm on my 3rd all-in-one and it's never happened to me (touch wood!).

As for user-replaceble stuff, no problem. I installed a new DVDR/W drive in my G4 'lamp' iMac, prior to donating it to my other half when i got the new one (shiny G5 2GHz 20"). Incidentally, she's turned into most evangelical Macista in just two months and hardly touches her Tosh laptop anymore! Nothing to do with me, you understand... ;)

I also put an extra 1Gb RAM in both units. I'm no hardware techie believe me, but all ops were straightforward using standard parts (be careful to check for driver avaiability though, if replacing an optical drive).

[Binoculars]

WxJx,

While I admire your evangelical spin (!) it appears the answer to my last question is yes. :( Not sure how you could equate the PC/Mac situations; replace a $2000 computer or hop down to Office Works and pick up a brand new monitor for $300? Not sure where the like-for-like warranty comes into it?

Nevertheless, that's (I hope) a situation that won't arise for a long time. I think I'd be a pretty cheesed off Mac convert if it did.

[shuttlebus]

Binoculars,

Once site to maybe have a look at is: -

http://www.emulators.com/

Looks like this will let you have a play with MacOS 8.1 for the cost of a 1.1Mb download....

( I haven't researched this extensively though...)

Regards,

Shuttlebus

[WeatherJinx]

BinosNot sure how you could equate the PC/Mac situationsI was referring to a 'apples-for-apples' (no pun intended) comparison with an all-in-one PC (http://www.pcplus.co.uk/reviews/default.asp?pagetypeid=2&articleid=34344&subsectionid=372&subsubsectionid=34), i.e. how much less stuffed would you be if the screen went on that? ;)

[AppleMacster]

Binos: Between us, my father and I have owned over a dozen Macs over 18 years. We have never had a repair issue with any of them. Whist me may have been lucky, the build quality has always been excellent. The iMac G5 is extremely well designed and constructed and should last you a long time. the RAM is easily replaced, although the Hard Drive is a little tricky, but you shouldn't experience too much trouble, should you need to do it. Apple have the instructions on their website.