Leaving Virgin Blue?

[flamingmoe]

Hearing a growing number of reports of Virgin pilots saying enough is enough and leaving for greener pastures ie CX and Emirates.

Are the delay tactics with the EBA and questionable rostering practices starting to wear a little thin over there?

I'm not trying to wind anyone up,just a bit curious is all.



:cool:

[Woomera]

Not bad for a first post! :E

Most PPRuNe users usually shoot for double digit posts before they go for a wind-up! :}

Woomera

[FirstOfficer]

People leave... People get hired... :ok:

[coitus interuptus]

Flamingmoe. To answer your question, YES there are many pilots looking at moving on. We have had enough of the incompetence, lies and mis-information.

The EBA process is still dragging on and the company has the most abhorrent attitude toward pilots I have ever witnessed.

En-masse resignations are not too far away I believe. A lot of us gave up good positions over seas to come back to the country we love, only to be comprehensively shafted from every angle. As there is little unity among the ranks, the company would be rubbing their grubby hands in collective delight.

I could go on for many pages, alas I do not want to waste your time. I'm sure you get the picture. The unhappiest airline environment I have ever seen!

[Sonny Hammond]

Try QANTAS for a unhappy working enviroment. Every department there is copping it.

The bosses of these airlines really have redefined how badly management can treat staff.

[Richard Kranium]

Goodness!!...I would have thought that VB is a pilots utopia, as its lead by the #2 from the great '89 pilots dispute, surely he still believes in those great union principles that he fought so hard for.

[Ronnie Honker]

You're making a dick of yourself again Richard K - obviously news travels slowly to your little backwater.

We have had enough of the incompetence, lies and mis-information....and the company has the most abhorrent attitude toward pilots I have ever witnessed.Welcome to QANTAS.
Oops, sorry, this about another airline isn't it :uhoh:

[Gnadenburg]

coitus interuptus

You reep what you sow!

You came home from abroad, paid for your endorsements and were paid below what the incumbants of the time were- a VB training captain was being paid the same or slightly less than a QF and Ansett F/O.

Now, because of your folly of paying for your training, you have removed VB's sensitivities to market forces- it doesn't really matter if 50 VB pilots leave. In fact, management will probably be pleased.


flamingmoe

Where are you all going to go?

Emirates not too rosey at the moment and why would you live in the tent of the Arab for the same money you get now? Virgin Blue Capt to CX freighter F/O seems a ludicrous suggestion if it involves a paycut.

[flamingmoe]

As I said in my initial post,it's not my intention to fire up the same old debates surrounding Virgin Blue (Gnadenburg),its been done to death already. Nor am I a present Virgin pilot,more of a hopefull Virgin pilot,and like many before me I have a great job overseas,but I have a burning desire to get home to Oz.

Naturally,rumours of mass exodus leave me questioning my aspirations,I would hate to join Virgin against the flow of resignations and wind up regretting the move,as it seems so many guys from O/S do.

[Casper]

a VB training captain was being paid the same or slightly less than a QF and Ansett F/O.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
QF & AN FOs' pay were and are quite unsustainable for LCCs.

[Dropt McGutz]

But Southwest Airlines aren't.

[coitus interuptus]

Gnadenburg you can try (yet again) to turn this into another us versus them thread. I aint interested mate. Someone asked a question and I furnished a very abbreviated answer.

You obviously do not know all the facts. Many of us came back with endorsements. We were subsequently promised that we had to endure a "start up pay" but things would improve in the near future. We are still waiting.

Flamingmoe, I suggest you think very carefully about coming home mate. Things may improve in the future but God knows when. The rosters are a disgrace. The pay is ordinary to say the least and the training is non existant. I believe we have the lowest standards in Oz. Pay for your own endorsements are simply wrong. The results can be seen on line daily.

And yes Soutwest and others do pay their pilots MORE than established carriers, so (CASPER) it has NOTHING to do with LCC's. That is dreary management propoganda. If the company is managed properly, good pay is not a problem.

[Y0DA]

Mate of mine from Virgin is off to ANA.

[soldier of fortune]

well when your working for two clowns- like godfrey and branson you reap what you sow-
yeh you may leave for greener pasture's- but there is always some bloke waiting underneath you to take your place and under cut the rest -just look at the suckhole's at jet* -offer them a bag of peanuts and a mike shake and they will fly an a320 and take the conditions down further and why ---its because there a pack of c :mad: ts

[Richard Kranium]

What's your problem Honker, I was under the impression that VB was Shagrilah to the returnees, all that brotherhood stuff, that was on another thread.

S of F says this what you get from working for two clowns...I would have thought it would be 3 clowns, trout mouth, the dirty old man, and the CFI of the aero club.

[Ronnie Honker]

I was under the impression that VB was ShagrilahI believe it is indeed!

[Sonny Hammond]

Throw in some pretzells and they are flying an A330 for A320+%20!

Can't wait to see what they'll fly the 380 or 787 for....

OR

Buy a subway franchise and earn the same if not more.
Never go away on overnights and do no recurrency training, just smile and ask if you want jalepenos on that foot long money machine.
Everyone you walk into is chockers...

It is quite simple to see which way it is going.
Fly for ego, work elsewhere for money.

[boocs]

Not wanting to knock either of the following or their employers, but, a friend recently gave up being a Metro Captain because his teenage son earns more than him as a Junior Manager at KFC.

I believe the father's application was successful at KFC.......

[Poto]

:p mmhh all the Colonel you can eat and more money than a metro captain. Sounds like Utopia:cool:

[Next Generation]

a VB training captain was being paid the same or slightly less than a QF and Ansett F/O. Just out of interest, how much does an ANSETT F/O. get paid these days? :confused:
a friend recently gave up being a Metro Captain because his teenage son earns more than him as a Junior Manager at KFC.I'm sorry but does anybody here really think that they would prefer working at KFC than flying? If your friend is that dissatisfied with flying AND jealous of his own son, that he would rather work for KFC than fly, well it is probably a good thing that he has left aviation and created a vacancy for someone else who wants to be there for the right reasons.
Job satisfaction is not just about the dollars. That is one aspect of it, but it is not the be-all and end-all.

[soldier of fortune]

----jetstar pilot recruitment advertisement seen in the THE AUSTRALIAN last week----

i belive it said:

----------JETSTAR REQUIRES PILOTS--------
have you got what it takes to be a jetstar pilot--feel like spending **** load of your own money--want to climb that ladder of opportunity-the fast way-THEN YOUR THE TYPE OF PERSON WE WANT TO FLY OUR OUR STATE OF ART A320:

re terms and conditions
1. pay for your own endorsment
2. pay for your own chk and sim training
3. pay for your recurrent training
4. pay to use the toilet on the aircraft
5. in fact expect to pay for every f..ken thing your self

JETSTAR WILL LOOK FAVOURABLY ON BACKSTABBERS IF THEY APPLY.
JETSTAR IS ALSO AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY EMPLOYER -SO VIRGIN BLUE PILOTS MAY APPLY
SPECIAL CONSIDERATION WILL BE GIVEN TO THOSE WITH KFC FOOD OUTLET EXPERIANCE

[Next Generation]

soldier of fortune I suggest that you take your hand off your gun. :}

[Keg]

Just out of interest, how much does an ANSETT F/O. get paid these days?

The ones that I fly with earn a truck load more than a Virgin F/O NG and their earning potential over the coming years leaves DJ for dust as well- no audit required! :E

They may be in QF uniform but there is a part of them that will always be an Ansett pilot- and good on them too!

[Next Generation]

Ahhhh.... KEG, my fine friend. :p

I said an ANSETT F/O, not an Ex-ANSETT F/O

You may have (I suspect deliberately) missed my point. :ok:

[coitus interuptus]

I find it amazing we have an industry in front of us going to the dogs and under attack from the lowest, sub-human management groups ever seen and we are still sledging each other.

Will we ever wake up to the fact that we need to get united in this country, or will the "I'll be alright Jack" attitude continue to prevail until the profession's ultimate demise?

[FirstOfficer]

People need to learn how to deal with the future, not the past...

[Richard Kranium]

It has never been, and it will never be anything else....the "I'm alright Jack" attitude will always prevail as pilots are the most greedy back stabbing group I have ever come across, its the only profession as I can see it, that can hide gross incompetence and look good at the same time, and yes all exploited by management as its easy to manage such groups.

[pakeha-boy]

firstofficer...that was a beauty mate!!!!!.Ive been flying for 26yrs so I know my past(up and down like a whores drawers),but this "future" thing you talk about,obviously the aviation future,is there any chance that I could look into the crystal ball that you have so I can see my bloody future....gimme a break:*

[jetblues]

Looking at the facts very few have left, either Rank.

Several that have left wish they could return.

The Airline game has changed forever, no fat multi-million dollar pension at a 50th birthday retirement anymore. Bugger.

In all honesty where else do you go ?

[coaldemon]

Personally I would want to own the KFC store. As you get older the job satrisfaction crap that guys carry on about gives way to the "Holy **** I can't afford to retire" realisation. In your 20s and early 30s the "yeah man I am a pilot " sounds real good but your mate from school works for the council and owns 4 houses he rents out. Guess who will retire easily? I have quite a few friends who are getting out of airlines and GA as they can make more money elsewhere and be home everynight ( what a novelty) .

[FirstOfficer]

pakeha-boy,

then you are welcome to live in your past, just memories mate
:hmm: :ok: what i meant with my post is that we have to deal with present issues in order to improve aviation. Logical isn't it? I don't think you need a crystal ball for that. :hmm:

[PPRuNeUser0182]

I'm sorry but does anybody here really think that they would prefer working at KFC than flying? If your friend is that dissatisfied with flying AND jealous of his own son, that he would rather work for KFC than fly, well it is probably a good thing that he has left aviation and created a vacancy for someone else who wants to be there for the right reasons.

Precisely what I was thinking. Well said.

[tinpis]

I got a cousin like that.
Sheep shearer, 60 looks 35 still does a bit of shearing owns so many houses he cant count em biggest worry is where the fish are biting next.

[Jet_Black_Monaro]

There is no mass exodus. There have been some who have left for personal reasons unrelated to dissatisfaction. And there has been a disgruntled handful who have left or are about to who are highly unlikely to ever be invited back anyway. They are the sort of blokes who will always be unhappy no matter where they are or who they fly for. The business is too small in OZ and burning bridges is very unwise.

I think being a 737 pilot for Virgin Blue offers a much more stable job environment with fewer upheavals in the coming years than being a 737 pilot for the opposition.

[Arm out the window]

Next Generation, for my 2 bobs worth, I agree with you.
Sure, it's not right to get screwed by unscrupulous employers, but all this comparison of 'how much someone else gets paid and how much work they do compared to me' is just not the way to go in my book.
You do a job, get paid, if you like your work and make enough money to keep you happy, then you're fine.
If you see someone else doing something else that pays more, the choices are clear - keep doing your own thing and be happy with it, or go do what they're doing and be happy with that; just don't sit there and whinge.

[coitus interuptus]

Jet black manaro. You must surely be a management stooge. No line pilot would support your assessment . I can not name you ONE satisfied line pilot, not a single one. ALL the people who left have done so because they were not happy. Please spare us the personal reasons garbage. It was very much related to dissatisfaction. The reality is that most pilots would walk tomorrow if there were a another job in Oz to go to.

How on earth you can call our current existance stable is beyond comprehension. It is the most deplorable place to work I have ever witnessed. No, I wont be leaving in the near future as I only moved back to oz 4 years ago and now have family commitments.

As I said, disgusting rosters, crap money and the standards are pathetic. Ask any NORMAL check captain with considerable experience what they think. Scarey indeed.

[OZcabincrew]

JBM, is just a stirrer that works for DJ but thinks they know the workings of other airlines inside out, when they don't. I would rather work for Qantas anyday than Virgin Blue!

Ansett, great airline and sad to see what happened to it, but get over it! ex-Ansett crew feel it necessary to mention that they're ex-Ansett at every possible chance, unfortunately i've heard enough of it and no, you can't bring your Ansett seniority into another airline!

Oz

[Jet_Black_Monaro]

Management Stooge? Because I disagree with you? What a stupid thing to write. There are other posts on this thread that clearly demonstrate that your view is not the only view within the pilot body politique of this current EBA renegotiation. Misinformation is rife at the moment while the EBA is being negotiated. I would have thought a thorough and complete process will produce a better outcome for pilots. There is no loss in the long run because any negotiated contract is backdated to the end of the last. I wish you well in your endeavours.

[BankAngle50]

KEG says The ones that I fly with earn a truck load more than a Virgin F/O NG and their earning potential over the coming years leaves DJ for dust as well- no audit required!

A "Truck load" more! Honestly i have heard it all now.
Keg I wouldn’t be making forecasts about earning potential at either QF or VB, whilst J* continue to reach new lows in salary. It won’t be long before GOD has them on wides and sadly we all know they will do it for peanuts. :ugh:

[4PW's]

"QF & AN FOs' pay were and are quite unsustainable for LCCs............."

Who on earth said that?

Care to have a look at Ryanair salaries?

If you do you will see how wrong that statement is.

Did you mean unsustainable in the current climate of oversupply?

Australian aviation is certainly oversupplied with pilots willing to work for very little.

I suppose if you were looking at it from the perspective of market forces you'd be right, only you did say 'were'.

Mind you, I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would want to work for Virgin Blue.

[pakeha-boy]

Firstofficer...I couldnt agree more,,a very proactive attitude indeed,but I dont live in the past.I have worked for 15 different airlines,some bad,some good,and currently for a better than good airline.My problem with your comment is that most airlines are remnants of "past" airlines,they dont give a **** about "future"airlines.The people that run these airlines are not new on the block,most(not all)dig deep into the bag of treachery and use practices of the past for their future endeavours.You need only to look at what Lorenzo,Crandell,Frankie have done to the airlines,the cronies from AirNZ that want their golden parachutes after doing nothing for the company,and walking away with $$$$$ whilst the airline is going into bankruptcy.I have been on several MEC,s,for various airlines,I suggest you get on one,and then maybe you will realize how tough it is to actually work on a better airline future.This whole industry is frought with past practices.The number or airlines that are considered great airlines,you can count them on one hand.Why,because they subscribe to your first post,which incidently I totally agree with .My findings and experience suggest that you have to have people in those positions that are willing to cure problems of the past,the airline industry does not have a stock or surplus of these people.Look at the current state we are in.........otaota

[relax737]

So all is not well in Camelot, or Shagrilah (Could he have meant Shangrila?)

Some poster alluded to the pilot body at VB not being united. Lordy, Lordy!!! Give me strength.

If THAT pilot group can't be united, the strong ones who held firm against the PM and the huge guns of town hall trained on them, WHO can???

Must be that rabble from GA who can't follow the ideals of those who came back from overseas on the 'promise' that things (income, etc) would get better.

Come on fellas, you never trusted the managements pre 89 unless it was written in blood, so why would you give up 'high paying jobs' overseas to return to these fine shores on a promise, particularly one from the likes of VB management.

Seems like you guys set our jelly like rules as you go along.

[Icarus2001]

I can not name you ONE satisfied line pilot, not a single one. ALL the people who left have done so because they were not happy I find this a revelation. To think, pilots who leave a company are not happy.

Click Woomera.